Buying land with Thai GF with a mortgage over the property, possible?

[BlackJack]

wheres the house and property

[RigPig]

Providing a mortgage to a Thai person to buy land or property is very easy. I know - because I have done it - and have the Chanote Title Deed with my name as mortgagee to prove it.

You need a formal loan agreement - signed by both parties with 2 witnesses. You need a letter from a Thai bank which confirms that you received money from overseas and that this money was withdrawn for the purpose of providing a mortgage to the land buyer. It's a standard letter. I got the letter done within 30 minutes at Bangkok Bank.

At the Land Office you transfer ownwership of the property to the name of your g/f - then at same time - or later if you wish - you fill in the appropriate forms to register the interest of a mortgagee (i.e. you) from the Land Office and submit together with copy of passport, Loan Agreement in Thai (or certified genuine copy in Thai if original is in English) and Confirmation Letter from Bank. There are Land Office fees to pay - depending on the value of the property. Very simple. I did mine at a rural Land Office in Chiang Mai. Being a non-Thai citizen is irrelevant - it is just a procedure to register a mortgage.

WOW!!!

Thanks for that Phil, I wasn't sure but I could see no reason why not.

It seems to me that people who feel this sort of thing (ursfructs and companies) is necessary to protect their investment in this country (or their GF) are going down the wrong path. It would seem setting things up this way is both legal and easy if that's the case.

I know that (legal and provable) debts in this country can be carried on in the event of death or whatever also. Your family in another country could take over the mortgage upon your death for example or you could just simply have the debt passed to your GF upon your demise, whatever.

VERY interesting, thanks a lot.

[RigPig]

To the OP. For what it's worth...

A friend of mine is a very successful retired UK property lawyer. Here in Thailand he has a Thai property lawyer who he trusts and with whom he's discussed this very idea.

He tells me that, properly structured, the idea of you being 'the bank' and lending your girlfriend the money to buy a house is the way to go - if you want to have the option of getting your money back in the event of the relationship going belly up.

Note: I'm talking about a girlfriend not a wife here. And I'm talking about houses not condos. And I'm not talking about what's morally right or wrong in these matters.

Re the point JLCrab is making: under these circumstances you're not trying to get your hands on the property - you just want your money back. The question seems to me to be: can you force the sale of the house without taking ownership of the house? And I don't know the answer to that because I'm not a lawyer.

Will try and remember to ask my friend about this next time I see him.

PS: personally speaking - I rent!

I was just attempting with this to offer another alternative to an ursfruct (or Thai company, which has it's problems), which going by this forum seems VERY popular. If the contract for the mortgage was made BEFORE the marriage it seems to me to be a somewhat more secure way to go.

I would think that a legal firm here could handle the "repossession" of the land in question, the land would just have to be sold to a Thai (or Thai entity such as a company) to "re-claim" the debt (just as a bank would do). If there was a house on the property that would raise other issues but not something that is insurmountable.

Personally I rent too.....

[RigPig]

Providing a mortgage to a Thai person to buy land or property is very easy. I know - because I have done it - and have the Chanote Title Deed with my name as mortgagee to prove it.

You need a formal loan agreement - signed by both parties with 2 witnesses. You need a letter from a Thai bank which confirms that you received money from overseas and that this money was withdrawn for the purpose of providing a mortgage to the land buyer. It's a standard letter. I got the letter done within 30 minutes at Bangkok Bank.

At the Land Office you transfer ownwership of the property to the name of your g/f - then at same time - or later if you wish - you fill in the appropriate forms to register the interest of a mortgagee (i.e. you) from the Land Office and submit together with copy of passport, Loan Agreement in Thai (or certified genuine copy in Thai if original is in English) and Confirmation Letter from Bank. There are Land Office fees to pay - depending on the value of the property. Very simple. I did mine at a rural Land Office in Chiang Mai. Being a non-Thai citizen is irrelevant - it is just a procedure to register a mortgage.

"The question seems to me to be: can you force the sale of the house without taking ownership of the house?"

What do you think about AbeSurd question?

If the relationship ends in a very bad way, do you think you will be able to force the sale of the property in order to get your money back(assuming that your ex will be very likely broke)?

Anyway I don't think you can take over the property and get the Chanote Title with your name 'cause Thai Law doesn't allow it.

To answer your questions :

I am sure a law firm could hold the land "in trust" until the sale, or you just sell the land to a Thai, as a bank would do.

This is just an alternative for those who think they need some sort of security, for whatever reason. Many people (it would seem) have an ursfruct on their land, which only gives you the right to use it for life (this I think in this country could have it's own dangers) but no monetary use or value whatsoever.

Yes legally you could sell the land regardless, it would I guess just remain in the Gf's name until sold.

[wolfmanjack]

For those of you that do not know there are cases where the westerner gets 100% of the land and house back.

The case that I read involved an American that signed the paper at the Land Office but testified that he could not read Thai so did not understand what he signed. If I remember correctly he testified that the land and house were purchased for the family and since she committed adultery which was the cause of the divorce she was not part of the family any more.

The court ordered the ex wife to turn over the chanote to the American. She refused so the court ordered the land office to cancel the old chanote and issue a new one in the Americans name.

I personally think anyone that purchases land these days may have a harder time convincing the court that they did not understand what they were signing though since it easily researched on the internet.

[recycler]

OP reads like a complicated roundabout with exits at 3 levels, but as far as I understand you want to secure your hold on a piece of land by providing a mortgage to your Thai girlfriend.

Unless your girlfriend has sufficient income to pay the mortgage this will be just another construction to circumvent the law, where you will be using her as a proxy to buy land.

The only legal way for you to gain control over land is a 30 year lease agreement with the owner. You can not lease from your legal wedded wife, so you have to keep it a girlfriend.

[RigPig]

OP reads like a complicated roundabout with exits at 3 levels, but as far as I understand you want to secure your hold on a piece of land by providing a mortgage to your Thai girlfriend.

Unless your girlfriend has sufficient income to pay the mortgage this will be just another construction to circumvent the law, where you will be using her as a proxy to buy land.

The only legal way for you to gain control over land is a 30 year lease agreement with the owner. You can not lease from your legal wedded wife, so you have to keep it a girlfriend.

Whilst I appreciate your point of view and don't necessaraly disagree with you completely, the mortgage conditions could be ANYTHING you wish them to be, time wise, repayment amounts and interest (if any). So the ability to re pay should not be an issue, you could even "gift" 50% or whatever to your GF. I don't see this as a proxy to circumvent the law YOU CAN NEVER OWN THE LAND. It is just a method of protecting the money you have invested in the property, a means of preventing yourself from being scammed. That is all.

A 30 year lease gives you nothing.

I believe that should you marry AFTER the purchase it will not affect the mortgage as you own everything before the marriage and the arrangement was made before the girl became your spouse.

You could think of it as a secure pre-nup.

[khunPer]

Lawyers and other professionals in the property business have often advised me about the loan-servitude/mortgage method; but if it may work between married couples I’m not sure. Believe you need advise from an experienced lawyer.

What exactly is your end-game? You seem to be extremely concerned with a minor "investment" of USD 50k or so in your teerak when you would lose 10x that in farangistan if things go tits up. Seriously mate if you have to do all this legal research over a drop in the bucket you need to re-evaluate yourself or your teerak.

Cake and eat it.

@Cashpower #2:

If one wish to live/stay in one of the more attractive areas even smaller plots of land can be quite expensive and 50k US$ will take you nowhere. An attractive house – with land – where I live may cost from 20M and up to at least 450M bath (from 600k to 15M US$), which IMO is not a “minor” investment; I know everything is relative, but do presume this Forum lacks in the number of $-billionaires. Of course one may wish some kind of security when investing that kind of money in a house – however, I presume that one can afford to be advised by a lawyer when having funds for such villas; as there are foreigners buying stuff in this price range one-way-or-the-other.

[scotsman]

Providing a mortgage to a Thai person to buy land or property is very easy. I know - because I have done it - and have the Chanote Title Deed with my name as mortgagee to prove it.

You need a formal loan agreement - signed by both parties with 2 witnesses. You need a letter from a Thai bank which confirms that you received money from overseas and that this money was withdrawn for the purpose of providing a mortgage to the land buyer. It's a standard letter. I got the letter done within 30 minutes at Bangkok Bank.

At the Land Office you transfer ownwership of the property to the name of your g/f - then at same time - or later if you wish - you fill in the appropriate forms to register the interest of a mortgagee (i.e. you) from the Land Office and submit together with copy of passport, Loan Agreement in Thai (or certified genuine copy in Thai if original is in English) and Confirmation Letter from Bank. There are Land Office fees to pay - depending on the value of the property. Very simple. I did mine at a rural Land Office in Chiang Mai. Being a non-Thai citizen is irrelevant - it is just a procedure to register a mortgage.

When My wife was my GF we did the same thing just the way you have said in this post. Just before we got married I went back to the same lawyers and changed the mortgage into a Usefruct on the Chanote but only for 30 years as the land office in Pattaya would not give me for life and at my age at the time 30 years will do, just to protect our house from my wife's family if anything happened to my wife and after 14 years together its still working great. But if in the future things change in the land law or in divorce then you face that when it comes who knows the future.

Regards

Scotsman

[RigPig]

Providing a mortgage to a Thai person to buy land or property is very easy. I know - because I have done it - and have the Chanote Title Deed with my name as mortgagee to prove it.

You need a formal loan agreement - signed by both parties with 2 witnesses. You need a letter from a Thai bank which confirms that you received money from overseas and that this money was withdrawn for the purpose of providing a mortgage to the land buyer. It's a standard letter. I got the letter done within 30 minutes at Bangkok Bank.

At the Land Office you transfer ownwership of the property to the name of your g/f - then at same time - or later if you wish - you fill in the appropriate forms to register the interest of a mortgagee (i.e. you) from the Land Office and submit together with copy of passport, Loan Agreement in Thai (or certified genuine copy in Thai if original is in English) and Confirmation Letter from Bank. There are Land Office fees to pay - depending on the value of the property. Very simple. I did mine at a rural Land Office in Chiang Mai. Being a non-Thai citizen is irrelevant - it is just a procedure to register a mortgage.

When My wife was my GF we did the same thing just the way you have said in this post. Just before we got married I went back to the same lawyers and changed the mortgage into a Usefruct on the Chanote but only for 30 years as the land office in Pattaya would not give me for life and at my age at the time 30 years will do, just to protect our house from my wife's family if anything happened to my wife and after 14 years together its still working great. But if in the future things change in the land law or in divorce then you face that when it comes who knows the future.

Regards

Scotsman

Yes @Scotsman, there are many reasons one may or may not wish to pursue this path, it is just one option that has not been discussed much if at all, and one some may wish to know about.

Can I ask why you changed the arrangement after the marriage ? I believe as long as the arrangement was made before the marriage this is not necessary legally.

[belg]

i think loans from loanshark & private person is a civil matter, so, if she takes your money and spend it all, she ows you money and good luck of ever seeing a satang back....

RENT RENT RENT

or RUN RUN RUN

[RigPig]

i think loans from loanshark & private person is a civil matter, so, if she takes your money and spend it all, she ows you money and good luck of ever seeing a satang back....

RENT RENT RENT

or RUN RUN RUN

Personally I am renting myself, however guys do go down this path and then end up loosing it all. Some (can)just take it on the shoulder, others can't. With a mortgage you do at least have some collateral, which (legally at least) can be retrieved. I am sure the whole retrieval prcess could be handled by a lawyer without getting involved your self, for a fee of course.......

[belg]

when the protests are over in bankok.... all you farangs can ask your thai wifes to go block the streets in bangkok & other places

to go protest till we farangs get the right to at least buy land in our name ... 1 piece of xx rai per person, would be enough

except, this will never happen

- thai chinese rich elite will not allow it, they want to keep their power

- poor thai are indoctrinated since birth that thailand is for thai only

- thai wives do not want to lose their lottery option, of you paying for all, and kicking you out whenever they feel it or when their thai husband tells them it is time to go back to him

Edited January 28, 2014 by belg

[recycler]

OP reads like a complicated roundabout with exits at 3 levels, but as far as I understand you want to secure your hold on a piece of land by providing a mortgage to your Thai girlfriend.

Unless your girlfriend has sufficient income to pay the mortgage this will be just another construction to circumvent the law, where you will be using her as a proxy to buy land.

The only legal way for you to gain control over land is a 30 year lease agreement with the owner. You can not lease from your legal wedded wife, so you have to keep it a girlfriend.

Whilst I appreciate your point of view and don't necessaraly disagree with you completely, the mortgage conditions could be ANYTHING you wish them to be, time wise, repayment amounts and interest (if any). So the ability to re pay should not be an issue, you could even "gift" 50% or whatever to your GF. I don't see this as a proxy to circumvent the law YOU CAN NEVER OWN THE LAND. It is just a method of protecting the money you have invested in the property, a means of preventing yourself from being scammed. That is all.

A 30 year lease gives you nothing.

I believe that should you marry AFTER the purchase it will not affect the mortgage as you own everything before the marriage and the arrangement was made before the girl became your spouse.

You could think of it as a secure pre-nup.

If the conditions of the mortgage are not in line with market rates than it will easily be considered a way of circumventing the law to get the farang in defacto control of the land.

If you borrow money to someone who has no income or other assets than the house that secures the mortgage you may also get in trouble if the girlfriend defaults on other loans and the bank goes after he assets. Some Thai ladies seem to have remarkable skill to acquire debts in secret until the bubble bursts!

If you marry after the purchase you would have to get a prenuptial anyway and maintain it regular to stay safe.

[Neeranam]

Providing a mortgage to a Thai person to buy land or property is very easy. I know - because I have done it - and have the Chanote Title Deed with my name as mortgagee to prove it.

You need a formal loan agreement - signed by both parties with 2 witnesses. You need a letter from a Thai bank which confirms that you received money from overseas and that this money was withdrawn for the purpose of providing a mortgage to the land buyer. It's a standard letter. I got the letter done within 30 minutes at Bangkok Bank.

At the Land Office you transfer ownwership of the property to the name of your g/f - then at same time - or later if you wish - you fill in the appropriate forms to register the interest of a mortgagee (i.e. you) from the Land Office and submit together with copy of passport, Loan Agreement in Thai (or certified genuine copy in Thai if original is in English) and Confirmation Letter from Bank. There are Land Office fees to pay - depending on the value of the property. Very simple. I did mine at a rural Land Office in Chiang Mai. Being a non-Thai citizen is irrelevant - it is just a procedure to register a mortgage.

I never had to show I received money from overseas as I have a job here.

[JLCrab]

A contract, mortgage, loan or any other binding instrument -- should it go into default or non-compliance -- is only as good as a court or some other authority is willing to enforce it.

[FiftyTwo]

Most Thai land offices will no longer allow a foreigner to be the bank.

So the whole idea is out the window.

Edited January 28, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[thailiketoo]

Why don't you guys just find a woman who already owns a house?

[doublephil]

I am not a legal expert but I do have considerable experience of these particular matters. As I said previously - providing a mortgage is a simple procedure and legally sound. I have done several over the years and one in particular was part of a complicated court case - and both the loan agreement and mortgage were deemed to be legally sound by the judge. The agreement and mortgage were put in place specifically to protect my financial interests - and they did the job very well. And that is THE reason for wanting to take this route. However - it is crucial to get the wording of the loan agreement as specific as possible to cover every possible situation - especially about repayment terms and what happens if repayments are not met, what happens if land ownership changes, what happens if either party is deceased or incapacitated, etc. It is not only the mortgage - but the specific terms and conditions of the mortgage that are very important.

The option of a mortgage is not available between husband and wife if you are already married - but could easily be done if the land was registered in the name of someone else - e.g a relative of the wife. The question has been asked whether a mortgage would still be valid if you get married AFTER the mortgage was registered. I think this is a grey area in the law as there would be a conflict between 2 separate parts of the Thai legal code. This is not uncommon in Thailand and elsewhere around the world. I don't think you can get a definitive answer. It would have to tested in a court if a situation ever arose - and then it would be down to the skills of the lawyers and the mood of the judge, etc. If you are faint-hearted you might want to do the same as Scotsman and change the mortgage to a Usufruct - each situation is individual.

P.S. you can still do such agreements and mortgages. I just did one last week in Chiang Mai. Absolutely no problem at all.

[JLCrab]

Most Thai land offices will no longer allow a foreigner to be the bank.

So the whole idea is out the window.

Problem is that some land office just might register the arrangement and then, when push-comes-to-shove, a court might disallow the whole thing saying there is no binding commitment upon the person in debt or default.

[wym]

Whilst I appreciate your point of view and don't necessaraly disagree with you completely, the mortgage conditions could be ANYTHING you wish them to be, time wise, repayment amounts and interest (if any). So the ability to re pay should not be an issue, you could even "gift" 50% or whatever to your GF. I don't see this as a proxy to circumvent the law YOU CAN NEVER OWN THE LAND. It is just a method of protecting the money you have invested in the property, a means of preventing yourself from being scammed. That is all.

A 30 year lease gives you nothing.

I believe that should you marry AFTER the purchase it will not affect the mortgage as you own everything before the marriage and the arrangement was made before the girl became your spouse.

You could think of it as a secure pre-nup.

I think it's pretty clear you don't understand the fundamental issue here.

ANY foreign involvement in a real estate transaction leaves everything open to close inspection by the courts in case anything goes wrong down the road.

If the judge(s) think(s) that (IN THEIR OPINION) this was an attempt for a foreigner to gain an interest in Thai land, they have the power to just nullify the whole lot and in effect confiscate your money and you have no recourse and can in fact be fined or jailed for violating the intent of the law.

So in fact doing it the well-trodden normal way that is explicitly allowed by the law - like a 30 year lease in fact gets you far more than any scheme you or even most lawyers here will come up with.

The right to occupy that property for that time period with security, lack of risk.

Rent. period.

[RigPig]

Whilst I appreciate your point of view and don't necessaraly disagree with you completely, the mortgage conditions could be ANYTHING you wish them to be, time wise, repayment amounts and interest (if any). So the ability to re pay should not be an issue, you could even "gift" 50% or whatever to your GF. I don't see this as a proxy to circumvent the law YOU CAN NEVER OWN THE LAND. It is just a method of protecting the money you have invested in the property, a means of preventing yourself from being scammed. That is all.

A 30 year lease gives you nothing.

I believe that should you marry AFTER the purchase it will not affect the mortgage as you own everything before the marriage and the arrangement was made before the girl became your spouse.

You could think of it as a secure pre-nup.

I think it's pretty clear you don't understand the fundamental issue here.

ANY foreign involvement in a real estate transaction leaves everything open to close inspection by the courts in case anything goes wrong down the road.

If the judge(s) think(s) that (IN THEIR OPINION) this was an attempt for a foreigner to gain an interest in Thai land, they have the power to just nullify the whole lot and in effect confiscate your money and you have no recourse and can in fact be fined or jailed for violating the intent of the law.

So in fact doing it the well-trodden normal way that is explicitly allowed by the law - like a 30 year lease in fact gets you far more than any scheme you or even most lawyers here will come up with.

The right to occupy that property for that time period with security, lack of risk.

Rent. period.

I understand your perspective, however you are not securing ANY rights to the land only your monetary investment in it. It has already been tried in the courts with success. As long as you are specific about everything it should be OK. I still see it as being less risky as a lease or ursfruct, which could also be nullified by the land office or courts on a whim.

An ursfruct or lease is gaining some control over the land a mortgage is not. It is a loan using the land as collateral. YOU WILL NEVER OWN THE LAND .....

However this is just another alternative to not being told this is my husband, GTF off MY land by some conniving woman, that's all.

Why do guys enter into an ursfruct or lease arrangement? To have SOME form of security.

A mortgage arrangement, IMO, offers more protection from this scenario, that's all. There are millions of combinations and reasons for doing this, that is up to the individual, every set of circumstances is different.

Even in Thailand, in the courts, the law is the law, it does depend on how good and honest your legal representative is, but as we all know here money talks and repossessing the property for none payment could and I think would be handled by a Thai lawyer (with little or no involvement from the person who is owed the money) as long as they got their cut. Something of something is better than nothing of something.

Ursfructs can be negated at the land office. Leases have run into trouble with the change of ownership of the land or the death of a spouse, once again it can be controlled by the land office. A mortgage has a seperate written and signed legal document which can be (and has been) ratified by the courts to at least some satisfaction.

IMHO

[wym]

No, the money coming from foreign sources is enough to nullify the whole transaction.

If she defaults on the loan, what recourse do you have?

Fine if she's got income and assets to buy the property herself, and uses other non-real estate assets to secure your loan.

But as JLCrab points out (a well respected international attorney BTW), you can't have the land be collateral for the loan.

[JesseFrank]

If an alien is involved in loaning money to purchase a property, then IMHO the property itself could not serve as collateral or lien to a loan. But some other property or asset of equal or greater value could.

It can, I have loaned to a Thai for a land purchase, and the loan contract has been done by a lawyer and the loan registered at the land office.

The title deed of the land has my name on the back and is in my possession.

[wym]

No one is saying that ANY of these schemes can't be made to (appear to) work in a given place and time, when it's foreign money coming in lining the local pockets.

Totally varies with the attitudes of the local land officials, they allow all kinds of things to go on that aren't actually secure long-term.

The issue is trying to come up with something that actually stands up when the next "crackdown" comes and the true intent of the law is enforced.

Believe me it isnt' the land office or the Thai lawyers that get punished, just the fools that listened to them.

Maybe will never happen, if your motives aren't financial and you're willing to risk it, no problem. If losing your "investment" will threaten your retirement's long-term sustainability, RENT.

Edited January 28, 2014 by wym

[RigPig]

Just as a side note on this subject, because a lot of posters think that this is intended as a method of owning or gaining control over Thai land, let's play hypothetical.

We have all heard of the nightmare stories of what can and does happen in this country time and time again. Men end up going home destitute and we can all say it is their fault but the reality is love is blind and the conniving woman that caused these situations are "doing the wrong thing".

Almost every Thai woman (and I am only concerned with what happens in this country) that enters into a long term relationship (your Hi so's and women that already have property etc. women excluded of course) want you to buy land. It is part of the culture in reality, who is bringing what to the table. I have no problem with this it is what it is.

SO :

Man meets girl, falls in love she after a period of time wants to buy land and build a love nest.

The man is dubious, but relents, however living in Nakon Nowhere is not for him so they buy a piece of property in Hua Hin, it should rise in value and is close to all the amenities he thinks are just a normal part of life.

Scenario 1

He wants an ursfruct, this gives him the rights to the use of the land for life and he feels secure. 6 months a year down the track he is told to move out of her house. He finds that the ursfruct has been removed from the chanote (by uncle Somchais friend at the land office's mate for a small sum). He has no choice but to move and let the GF sell the property and move back home to the village with the Thai BF.

Scenario 2

He is uncertain because of all the stories, whether he should be going down this path however he is happy to spend the rest of his life with her in the "nest". He asks her to sign a 30 year lease over the property so he "feels secure". She agrees as she is happy to just be with him. She dies in a motor cycle accident. Her family inherit the rights to the property. Now they have no use for a property in Hua Hin but the money would come in handy. They contest the lease arrangement over the land and for some reason or another it is negated. Your out, they sell the land.

Scenario 3

Same old story but the guy has a mortgage over the property. He is not interested in owning the land he just wants to make sure that if the Thai BF or the family get involved he gets his money back and can start again. If it all pans out, she gets the property anyway. If he dies from a "mysterious death" his children in his home country get to own the mortgage. She gets nothing. If the Thai BF turns up she either has to fulfil the obligations of the loan or vacate and the property is sold. If she dies, her family either inherit the debt or the property is liquidated to recover the debt. He starts over, monetarily no (not more and possibly better)worse off.

Now this wasn't done to debate all of the different scenarios that are possible, if, when, woulda, coulda, shoulda or anything else. It's just an example nothing else.

It is just to demonstrate what COULD happen and why I think the mortgage route is a more viable alternative. There are scenarios where it won't be etc.

Things like having the ability to repay the loan or sufficient other collateral is all good but can be "manipulated" to some degree. You may choose to "gift" 50% of the property from day one and have the rest paid back over 30 years at 3% interest.......whatever.

I am just putting forward another, maybe, viable alternative.

Me, I'm renting.......

[wym]

Just as a side note on this subject, because a lot of posters think that this is intended as a method of owning or gaining control over Thai land, let's play hypothetical.

We have all heard of the nightmare stories of what can and does happen in this country time and time again. Men end up going home destitute and we can all say it is their fault but the reality is love is blind and the conniving woman that caused these situations are "doing the wrong thing".

Almost every Thai woman (and I am only concerned with what happens in this country) that enters into a long term relationship (your Hi so's and women that already have property etc. women excluded of course) want you to buy land. It is part of the culture in reality, who is bringing what to the table. I have no problem with this it is what it is.

SO :

Man meets girl, falls in love she after a period of time wants to buy land and build a love nest.

The man is dubious, but relents, however living in Nakon Nowhere is not for him so they buy a piece of property in Hua Hin, it should rise in value and is close to all the amenities he thinks are just a normal part of life.

That's the main mistake right there.

Don't relent. Take that money, put it into an account dedicated for the purpose and give her cash as she earns it, let her save up to buy the property herself as she sees fit, maybe help her figure out how to swing a loan in her own name use the income you give her to make payments whatever it's her problem not yours.

Money "shared" with your teerak is an expense, never an investment.

Me, I'm renting.......

Attaboy

[scotsman]

Providing a mortgage to a Thai person to buy land or property is very easy. I know - because I have done it - and have the Chanote Title Deed with my name as mortgagee to prove it.

You need a formal loan agreement - signed by both parties with 2 witnesses. You need a letter from a Thai bank which confirms that you received money from overseas and that this money was withdrawn for the purpose of providing a mortgage to the land buyer. It's a standard letter. I got the letter done within 30 minutes at Bangkok Bank.

At the Land Office you transfer ownwership of the property to the name of your g/f - then at same time - or later if you wish - you fill in the appropriate forms to register the interest of a mortgagee (i.e. you) from the Land Office and submit together with copy of passport, Loan Agreement in Thai (or certified genuine copy in Thai if original is in English) and Confirmation Letter from Bank. There are Land Office fees to pay - depending on the value of the property. Very simple. I did mine at a rural Land Office in Chiang Mai. Being a non-Thai citizen is irrelevant - it is just a procedure to register a mortgage.

When My wife was my GF we did the same thing just the way you have said in this post. Just before we got married I went back to the same lawyers and changed the mortgage into a Usefruct on the Chanote but only for 30 years as the land office in Pattaya would not give me for life and at my age at the time 30 years will do, just to protect our house from my wife's family if anything happened to my wife and after 14 years together its still working great. But if in the future things change in the land law or in divorce then you face that when it comes who knows the future.

Regards

Scotsman

Yes @Scotsman, there are many reasons one may or may not wish to pursue this path, it is just one option that has not been discussed much if at all, and one some may wish to know about.

Can I ask why you changed the arrangement after the marriage ? I believe as long as the arrangement was made before the marriage this is not necessary legally.

I changed to a usefruct before we got married as it was explained to me by the lawyers that it can't be changed if we are not married. I removed the mortgage on the chanote for 2 reasons the first reason was I did not trust the law in this matter as they could ask me or my wife to show how she paid for this and that she was not a nominee. The other reason was I trusted my wife and after looking after me with love and trust on her part for many years before we married I think she deserved my respect.

regards

Scotsman

[RigPig]

Just as a side note on this subject, because a lot of posters think that this is intended as a method of owning or gaining control over Thai land, let's play hypothetical.

We have all heard of the nightmare stories of what can and does happen in this country time and time again. Men end up going home destitute and we can all say it is their fault but the reality is love is blind and the conniving woman that caused these situations are "doing the wrong thing".

Almost every Thai woman (and I am only concerned with what happens in this country) that enters into a long term relationship (your Hi so's and women that already have property etc. women excluded of course) want you to buy land. It is part of the culture in reality, who is bringing what to the table. I have no problem with this it is what it is.

SO :

Man meets girl, falls in love she after a period of time wants to buy land and build a love nest.

The man is dubious, but relents, however living in Nakon Nowhere is not for him so they buy a piece of property in Hua Hin, it should rise in value and is close to all the amenities he thinks are just a normal part of life.

That's the main mistake right there.

Don't relent. Take that money, put it into an account dedicated for the purpose and give her cash as she earns it, let her save up to buy the property herself as she sees fit, maybe help her figure out how to swing a loan in her own name use the income you give her to make payments whatever it's her problem not yours.

Money "shared" with your teerak is an expense, never an investment.

Me, I'm renting.......

Attaboy

Can't disagree with at all, the apatments not the only thing I prefer to rent at the moment

[RigPig]

Providing a mortgage to a Thai person to buy land or property is very easy. I know - because I have done it - and have the Chanote Title Deed with my name as mortgagee to prove it.

You need a formal loan agreement - signed by both parties with 2 witnesses. You need a letter from a Thai bank which confirms that you received money from overseas and that this money was withdrawn for the purpose of providing a mortgage to the land buyer. It's a standard letter. I got the letter done within 30 minutes at Bangkok Bank.

At the Land Office you transfer ownwership of the property to the name of your g/f - then at same time - or later if you wish - you fill in the appropriate forms to register the interest of a mortgagee (i.e. you) from the Land Office and submit together with copy of passport, Loan Agreement in Thai (or certified genuine copy in Thai if original is in English) and Confirmation Letter from Bank. There are Land Office fees to pay - depending on the value of the property. Very simple. I did mine at a rural Land Office in Chiang Mai. Being a non-Thai citizen is irrelevant - it is just a procedure to register a mortgage.

When My wife was my GF we did the same thing just the way you have said in this post. Just before we got married I went back to the same lawyers and changed the mortgage into a Usefruct on the Chanote but only for 30 years as the land office in Pattaya would not give me for life and at my age at the time 30 years will do, just to protect our house from my wife's family if anything happened to my wife and after 14 years together its still working great. But if in the future things change in the land law or in divorce then you face that when it comes who knows the future.

Regards

Scotsman

Yes @Scotsman, there are many reasons one may or may not wish to pursue this path, it is just one option that has not been discussed much if at all, and one some may wish to know about.

Can I ask why you changed the arrangement after the marriage ? I believe as long as the arrangement was made before the marriage this is not necessary legally.

I changed to a usefruct before we got married as it was explained to me by the lawyers that it can't be changed if we are not married. I removed the mortgage on the chanote for 2 reasons the first reason was I did not trust the law in this matter as they could ask me or my wife to show how she paid for this and that she was not a nominee. The other reason was I trusted my wife and after looking after me with love and trust on her part for many years before we married I think she deserved my respect.

regards

Scotsman

All sounds good to me Scotsman, thanks for the reply