Buying land with Thai GF with a mortgage over the property, possible?

[ozyjon]

I think this is a good and fair post,, own up to it, if you are poor you have nothing to loose, on the other hand if one works and saves all their lives why should it be taken away so blatantly with the thought of "you are falang, you are rich" what about all the hard work and years of saving,, i will probably enter into your situation soonish and i still uphold the gamblers code, "only gamble what you can afford to loose" in saying that i have read on Thai Forum of someone setting up what you imply, ( a personal loan) but doing it through a (bank or lawyer?) I'm not exactly sure in Hong Kong, if the Thai girl friend knows you have the cash she will somehow get it out of you (like a money dentist) i am interested in your post and the outcome because i would pay the mortgage (as little as possible) and if things go bad, then i will go and take my money with me... suck on that GF

[RigPig]

I think this is a good and fair post,, own up to it, if you are poor you have nothing to loose, on the other hand if one works and saves all their lives why should it be taken away so blatantly with the thought of "you are falang, you are rich" what about all the hard work and years of saving,, i will probably enter into your situation soonish and i still uphold the gamblers code, "only gamble what you can afford to loose" in saying that i have read on Thai Forum of someone setting up what you imply, ( a personal loan) but doing it through a (bank or lawyer?) I'm not exactly sure in Hong Kong, if the Thai girl friend knows you have the cash she will somehow get it out of you (like a money dentist) i am interested in your post and the outcome because i would pay the mortgage (as little as possible) and if things go bad, then i will go and take my money with me... suck on that GF

My sentiments exactly, companies have inherent dangers as you can only own 49%, ursfructs have dangers as they appear to be at the whim of someone in the land office and not always granted. Neither has any form of claim monetarily. If it turns out she has made a genuine commitment she will end up with it eventually as any wife would. However if it is a "game" at least the ball is somewhat in your court.

I am pretty sure if you went to a legal office and just said get this enforced (the mortgage) and you get 5% or something you probably wouldn't even have to really get involved.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

I am afraid, none of the many "Legal-Lingo" expressions you apply (European-Legal-Lingo) could even be translated properly into Thai-Language by any sophisticated "Translation-Agency" in Bangkok.

Much worse: Thai property-law does not accommodate most of the "variations" you mention. = Unknown here. No matter how you are trying to "camouflage" it: A Farang is not allowed to own land in Thailand, no matter what your "Farang-Friendly-Lawyer" or your GF tells you.

Stay happy in Thailand and do the following:

- Keep your cash dry and safe in Europe

- Rent your accommodation

- Rent your female companionship

The recipe for a worrie-free live in Thailand.

Otherwise it will be "som nam naah" Ask GF what that means.

Cheers.

Many times in life the 3 F's apply. If it flies, floats or f...s, lease, don't buy. However, this does not always apply. If you are a man with integrity and some quality and find a woman of quality, you will do very well in Thailand. I am talking from personal experience and I have been married a few years with this lady. Only invest what you are willing to leave behind and don't get hurt.

[JLCrab]

Re: Post # 62 -- Contingency fees for lawyers in civil claims/tort litigation are not allowed. This is from a website of a collection agency in Thailand:

If you've ever used a traditional collection agency, you already know the going rate is 25 to 33 1/3% -- or more -- of the debt owed to you. Plus, in most cases, you must wait 21 to 45 long days for your money after your debtor has paid.

[Beetlejuice]

Let me make this sweet and easy for the OP.

In Thailand there is no such thing as a common law wife, which means in fact anything he purchases and gives to his Thai girlfriend in her name will be regarded as a gift unless the OP legally draws up an agreement that anything purchased with his money for his girlfriend is a loan.

He can hire the services of a reputable lawyer and draw up a legal agreement that his monies provided to his girlfriend for the purchase of real estate in her name is a loan, methods and clauses for paying back the loan can be negotiated between all parties concerned.

This means that the girlfriend could bar the OP from the property because it belongs to her on loan and also not forgetting that defaulting on a loan is not a criminal offence and even if the OP later decides to take action via the legal system and the civil courts in order to retrieve back his money if the relationship turns pear-shaped, it is not possible to squeeze blood out of a stone, meaning; if the GF is proven not to be able to pay back the loan, then quite frankly the OP is up the creek without a paddle. Actually trying to have the GF evicted from the property could take several years via the Thai legal system and cost a truckload of cash for legal fees during the process.

If the OP is trying to hatch some ploy to bypass the official channels to own land and property in Thailand, which this appears to be, than forget it because the authorities have this well covered, plus, however which ways he decides to purchase a real estate on behalf of his Thai girlfriend, he does so at his own risk and discretion.

Good luck to all who sail in her and hope the OP`s gamble works out.

[RigPig]

Let me make this sweet and easy for the OP.

In Thailand there is no such thing as a common law wife, which means in fact anything he purchases and gives to his Thai girlfriend in her name will be regarded as a gift unless the OP legally draws up an agreement that anything purchased with his money for his girlfriend is a loan.

He can hire the services of a reputable lawyer and draw up a legal agreement that his monies provided to his girlfriend for the purchase of real estate in her name is a loan, methods and clauses for paying back the loan can be negotiated between all parties concerned.

This means that the girlfriend could bar the OP from the property because it belongs to her on loan and also not forgetting that defaulting on a loan is not a criminal offence and even if the OP later decides to take action via the legal system and the civil courts in order to retrieve back his money if the relationship turns pear-shaped, it is not possible to squeeze blood out of a stone, meaning; if the GF is proven not to be able to pay back the loan, then quite frankly the OP is up the creek without a paddle. Actually trying to have the GF evicted from the property could take several years via the Thai legal system and cost a truckload of cash for legal fees during the process.

If the OP is trying to hatch some ploy to bypass the official channels to own land and property in Thailand, which this appears to be, than forget it because the authorities have this well covered, plus, however which ways he decides to purchase a real estate on behalf of his Thai girlfriend, he does so at his own risk and discretion.

Good luck to all who sail in her and hope the OP`s gamble works out.

Hi Beetlejuice

Firstly I am not making a "gamble", I was offering an alternate idea / solution to the problem of guys with "rose coloured glasses" making the error of getting mixed up with the woman that does all those despicable things we here of. Offering a possible "insurance" on the outlay so to speak.

If there is a mortgage agreement drawn up BEFORE marriage it is a legally binding agreement and as long as the terms of this agreement are clear, the land could be sold upon default of payment and your money recouped. If the payments are kept up then you still get your money back. Basically as in your third paragraph).

As I have stated in MANY previous posts this is not a scheme to by-pass the law (as some have perceived it) YOU WILL NEVER OWN THE LAND. Just a means of safeguarding your investment from the gold diggers.

This has apparently been achieved already, I know it is tedious but you will have to go through ALL the previous posts to fully understand, I think.

I am not sure where the idea of a common law wife came from, my original scenario was a man about to marry.......

[FiftyTwo]

Why not let the wife/gf get a real loan from a real bank.

Then you don't have to worry about anything except the repayments.

[RigPig]

Why not let the wife/gf get a real loan from a real bank.

Then you don't have to worry about anything except the repayments.

Whilst this would be an ideal situation in practice I can see a few problems.

But firstly I think the question is "why do so many guys buy the house and land for the wife / GF and then discover it was all a sham, and then complain they have been ripped off"?

This was just an offered up alternative, if the girl is genuine and marriage ensues she would eventually end up with it anyway. If it is a sham with the Thai husband waiting behind the scene there is some recourse to securing your investment. That's all really.

But to answer your question, Thai girls are often put under peer pressure, why you have farang BF, like many things here it has to be seen. I think most women let alone Thais are looking for some security in a relationship. If she had the means to service the loan from the bank she certainly could do so, up to her really. This is just a means of (perhaps) of cutting out the gold diggers and sham artists out there. I don't believe that getting a loan from a Thai bank for house and land is actually that easy because of all of the defaults, but that is just something I read.

EVERY scenario is different.....

[FiftyTwo]

Why not let the wife/gf get a real loan from a real bank.

Then you don't have to worry about anything except the repayments.

Whilst this would be an ideal situation in practice I can see a few problems.

But firstly I think the question is "why do so many guys buy the house and land for the wife / GF and then discover it was all a sham, and then complain they have been ripped off"?

This was just an offered up alternative, if the girl is genuine and marriage ensues she would eventually end up with it anyway. If it is a sham with the Thai husband waiting behind the scene there is some recourse to securing your investment. That's all really.

But to answer your question, Thai girls are often put under peer pressure, why you have farang BF, like many things here it has to be seen. I think most women let alone Thais are looking for some security in a relationship. If she had the means to service the loan from the bank she certainly could do so, up to her really. This is just a means of (perhaps) of cutting out the gold diggers and sham artists out there. I don't believe that getting a loan from a Thai bank for house and land is actually that easy because of all of the defaults, but that is just something I read.

EVERY scenario is different.....

It is that easy.

My wife did it last year. Doesn't even have a job.

Totally faked wage slips and bogus employer.

She's digging for gold, and in another 27 years she will have found it.

[RigPig]

Why not let the wife/gf get a real loan from a real bank.

Then you don't have to worry about anything except the repayments.

Whilst this would be an ideal situation in practice I can see a few problems.

But firstly I think the question is "why do so many guys buy the house and land for the wife / GF and then discover it was all a sham, and then complain they have been ripped off"?

This was just an offered up alternative, if the girl is genuine and marriage ensues she would eventually end up with it anyway. If it is a sham with the Thai husband waiting behind the scene there is some recourse to securing your investment. That's all really.

But to answer your question, Thai girls are often put under peer pressure, why you have farang BF, like many things here it has to be seen. I think most women let alone Thais are looking for some security in a relationship. If she had the means to service the loan from the bank she certainly could do so, up to her really. This is just a means of (perhaps) of cutting out the gold diggers and sham artists out there. I don't believe that getting a loan from a Thai bank for house and land is actually that easy because of all of the defaults, but that is just something I read.

EVERY scenario is different.....

It is that easy.

My wife did it last year. Doesn't even have a job.

Totally faked wage slips and bogus employer.

She's digging for gold, and in another 27 years she will have found it.

I guess that doesn't surprise me hahaha Probably why there are so many loan defaults....

Only 27 years, that's a deep hole hehe

[Crazy chef 1]

as i see there are not really helpful replies so far.

to your question: yes it is posible but you have to be married and yor wife need to proof a certain income for the last 6 months. then take the longest repaid period( some 30 years) and the house belongs to the bank.is a bit of hussle but can be done.

[RigPig]

as i see there are not really helpful replies so far.

to your question: yes it is posible but you have to be married and yor wife need to proof a certain income for the last 6 months. then take the longest repaid period( some 30 years) and the house belongs to the bank.is a bit of hussle but can be done.

Actually Crazy Chef there have been some VERY useful replies, but alas few and far between.

I don't believe you can do this after you are married as then it is looked upon as if you are trying to control the land. Before marriage it is just an agreement between 2 parties, even if you should marry afterwards. This is not about obtaining a mortgage from a bank but about you being the bank and supplying the mortgage, so the contract terms can be as you choose.

[Soutpeel]

as i see there are not really helpful replies so far.

to your question: yes it is posible but you have to be married and yor wife need to proof a certain income for the last 6 months. then take the longest repaid period( some 30 years) and the house belongs to the bank.is a bit of hussle but can be done.

Your talking about being a guarantor on a mortgage and certainly in case of SCB you don't need to be married, however you will need 12 month pay slips, and your wife or GF doesn't need an income, been there done that got the T-shirt, and typically they will not give you 30 years, 15 years or 20

[RigPig]

as i see there are not really helpful replies so far.

to your question: yes it is posible but you have to be married and yor wife need to proof a certain income for the last 6 months. then take the longest repaid period( some 30 years) and the house belongs to the bank.is a bit of hussle but can be done.

Your talking about being a guarantor on a mortgage and certainly in case of SCB you don't need to be married, however you will need 12 month pay slips, and your wife or GF doesn't need an income, been there done that got the T-shirt, and typically they will not give you 30 years, 15 years or 20

No that s incorrect, I am talking about instead of paying for the land outright BEING the mortgagee (you will be the bank).

[wym]

He was talking to Crazy Chef not you.

[RigPig]

He was talking to Crazy Chef not you.

oops...SORRY, so he was

[johnnybgood]

Lots of good opinion on this thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Well .....not only is it difficult enough deciding whether to rent or buy.

..........but also finding a trustworthy law firm .

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/thai-court-orders-arrest-of-fake-scottish-lawyer-1-3282896

[ajarntingtong]

Lots of good things here. There are a lot of other matters that come into play here though. Like farang being able to buy condos in their own name subject to Thai ownership of 51% of the building floor area. My concern here is with the body corporate building maintenance - I have yet to stay in a block where there the maintenance was of a satisfactory standard. Thais (IMHO) tend to build to a good standard then expect the building to last in that condition forever - or at the very least, accept that it will depreciate.

In my own case, I am just about at the end of my second three year lease which we (my Thai wife and I) pay annually in advance. When my wife went to pay the last year's rent, apart from receiving the usual gift basket, they told her that on renewal of the lease the rent would increase by 10% - no argument from me as it there had been no increase for six years and I consider it to have been 50% below market in the first place.

Back to business though, and I cannot emphasise enough the need for professional legal advice (and make sure that they are representing you only, so that there is no conflict of interest - my wife's uncle is a Bangkok lawyer, and he will have no part in our upcoming land purchase except for explaining the implications to my wife.)

To the newcomers to the LOS, NEVER build on land owned by your wife's family. If you are buying land there are several options available - consider leasing back from your wife/GF for 30 years, usufructs and some other available instruments. If you are bringing in capital from overseas for the transaction, make sure you get the receiving bank to document it correctly so that if the s**t hits the fan, you can take funds back with you.

You can gift the money to your wife for land purchase then document the building expenditure so that in the event of a breakup it can be shown as your input. You should be aware of Thai law in respect of marriage dissolution, particularly the situation of assets held before the marriage (document this) and that assets accumulated as a result of the union will usually be split 50/50. Always have a will registered in Thailand, covering all possibilities (and your wife as well) - don't forget what could happen to you in the unfortunate circumstance that your wife pre-deceases you.

Above all, make sure that a title deed (chanote) exists for the property you buy. If there is not one, it will limit the possible dealings with the land - such as registering a lease, usufruct (google the term if unfamiliar) or mortgage - the latter will restrict possible buyers on resale as their bank will not be able to register a mortgage.

If like me you are happy in your Thai love nest, some of the potential problems may never arise (hopefully not), but be aware of some horrible results that have befallen some newcomers hopelessly smitten with love that, on the loss of their love and most of their assets, have chosen to end their life.

Like any other investment, it is best to expend only what you can afford to lose. In my case, I intend to build a house in my wife's village as a nest egg for her - she is 15 years younger than me and my pension ensures a comfortable living for us both, as long as I live. I intend to keep my rented house in the city (well within my means) and be close to my friends, both farang and Thai. If I lose the property in her village, I am still able to continue renting my house in town (where I want to live anyway). The loss of the asset would not be the tragedy that the loss of my love would be.

Protect your position so that the loss of an asset is not a life-threatening tragedy - and I truly hope that you find happiness in the LOS.

[Cosmo88]

I think the above would arrangement upon default would be seen as an attempt to circumvent Thai Land law and be unenforceable.

I believe so too.

[Mr Worldwide]

I just don't understand farang investing hard cash into Thailand. Very little appreciation, only face gained and nothing else. Who knows what the future will hold? If you can afford to lose then fare enough. Example, bung 3m to 4m of Thai baht from a retired single man. Fine if you have the money but it is risky. I know plenty of guys who bought off-plan in Jomtien and Chiang Mai instant loss, what's the point? The political situation in Thailand is too unstable, why take the risk.

[Cosmo88]

I just don't understand farang investing hard cash into Thailand. Very little appreciation, only face gained and nothing else. Who knows what the future will hold? If you can afford to lose then fare enough. Example, bung 3m to 4m of Thai baht from a retired single man. Fine if you have the money but it is risky. I know plenty of guys who bought off-plan in Jomtien and Chiang Mai instant loss, what's the point? The political situation in Thailand is too unstable, why take the risk.

Investing in cowboy developments is often instant loss.

Wise investors do their homework and act accordingly.

[metisdead]

Posts and replies not relevant to this thread have been removed.

[maurerpablo11111]

If you buy a condo unit, your rights are those of a long-term renter who paid in advance. You don't have the feeling that it's your own as you have to follow all kinds of house rules.

[Rooo]

Moved to Housing Forum.

[thaibeachlovers]

I am afraid, none of the many "Legal-Lingo" expressions you apply (European-Legal-Lingo) could even be translated properly into Thai-Language by any sophisticated "Translation-Agency" in Bangkok.

Much worse: Thai property-law does not accommodate most of the "variations" you mention. = Unknown here. No matter how you are trying to "camouflage" it: A Farang is not allowed to own land in Thailand, no matter what your "Farang-Friendly-Lawyer" or your GF tells you.

Stay happy in Thailand and do the following:

- Keep your cash dry and safe in Europe

- Rent your accommodation

- Rent your female companionship

The recipe for a worrie-free live in Thailand.

Otherwise it will be "som nam naah" Ask GF what that means.

Cheers.

I agree with everything except the renting a GF. OK for a while, but soul less in the long run.

However, DO NOT give/ lend her any money you can't afford to walk away from, and make sure you lay down the limit that you are prepared to give her BEFORE getting married. Won't work if you are saying AFTER getting married that you won't support her entire family and buy her a car/ house etc.

[steve187]

My views for what they are worth, If you are only thinking about '' what happens in the future will i be secure'' then don't do it, buy a smaller, cheaper house / condo, what can be walked away from.

my wife owns some small land, she is also buying an older Thai shop house where we live when in Thailand. I have never thought '' what happens in the future will i be secure'' , Life is like a book made up of chapters, today is just a page in the latest chapter, Just be a little prepared for the next chapter.

edit

Sorry I only just reread the title of the thread and i see G/F I emphasis Don't do it

Edited January 28, 2015 by steve187

[thaibeachlovers]

Lots of good things here. There are a lot of other matters that come into play here though. Like farang being able to buy condos in their own name subject to Thai ownership of 51% of the building floor area. My concern here is with the body corporate building maintenance - I have yet to stay in a block where there the maintenance was of a satisfactory standard. Thais (IMHO) tend to build to a good standard then expect the building to last in that condition forever - or at the very least, accept that it will depreciate.

In my own case, I am just about at the end of my second three year lease which we (my Thai wife and I) pay annually in advance. When my wife went to pay the last year's rent, apart from receiving the usual gift basket, they told her that on renewal of the lease the rent would increase by 10% - no argument from me as it there had been no increase for six years and I consider it to have been 50% below market in the first place.

Back to business though, and I cannot emphasise enough the need for professional legal advice (and make sure that they are representing you only, so that there is no conflict of interest - my wife's uncle is a Bangkok lawyer, and he will have no part in our upcoming land purchase except for explaining the implications to my wife.)

To the newcomers to the LOS, NEVER build on land owned by your wife's family. If you are buying land there are several options available - consider leasing back from your wife/GF for 30 years, usufructs and some other available instruments. If you are bringing in capital from overseas for the transaction, make sure you get the receiving bank to document it correctly so that if the s**t hits the fan, you can take funds back with you.

You can gift the money to your wife for land purchase then document the building expenditure so that in the event of a breakup it can be shown as your input. You should be aware of Thai law in respect of marriage dissolution, particularly the situation of assets held before the marriage (document this) and that assets accumulated as a result of the union will usually be split 50/50. Always have a will registered in Thailand, covering all possibilities (and your wife as well) - don't forget what could happen to you in the unfortunate circumstance that your wife pre-deceases you.

Above all, make sure that a title deed (chanote) exists for the property you buy. If there is not one, it will limit the possible dealings with the land - such as registering a lease, usufruct (google the term if unfamiliar) or mortgage - the latter will restrict possible buyers on resale as their bank will not be able to register a mortgage.

If like me you are happy in your Thai love nest, some of the potential problems may never arise (hopefully not), but be aware of some horrible results that have befallen some newcomers hopelessly smitten with love that, on the loss of their love and most of their assets, have chosen to end their life.

Like any other investment, it is best to expend only what you can afford to lose. In my case, I intend to build a house in my wife's village as a nest egg for her - she is 15 years younger than me and my pension ensures a comfortable living for us both, as long as I live. I intend to keep my rented house in the city (well within my means) and be close to my friends, both farang and Thai. If I lose the property in her village, I am still able to continue renting my house in town (where I want to live anyway). The loss of the asset would not be the tragedy that the loss of my love would be.

Protect your position so that the loss of an asset is not a life-threatening tragedy - and I truly hope that you find happiness in the LOS.

If I lose the property in her village, I am still able to continue renting my house in town (where I want to live anyway). The loss of the asset would not be the tragedy that the loss of my love would be.

If unlucky, building her a house may be all she wants from you, and once completed it's bye bye sucker.

The only way to be sure she stays with you, is NOT to build her a house, but if you want to take care of her when you are dead, leave her enough money to build a house once you are gone.

[advancebooking]

Sometimes it works, but not with young peeps, I am 60 my Thai wife is 54 we really love each other and we laugh a lot

Maybe one day she could take me down , but we have a lot of property now

Lol I own none

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

''I own none'.... thats why she is laughing a lot.

There is one born every minute.

To the OP. Are you another guy writing a book. $50k is chicken feed money.

[inkorat]

We have put mortgages on property in foreign names. No problem.

You need to do this before you get married, since everything done after marriage is jointly owned property.

If the case of default the Judge will normally order the property sold at auction, to the highest bidder or as otherwise mutually agreed between the parties envolved. You get what is owed as the 1st lean holder and anything above this amount will be paid to the ex/GF. If the property happens to sell for less than the amount owed, you may come up short. The process takes time, but it does work.

[RT555]

What exactly is your end-game? You seem to be extremely concerned with a minor "investment" of USD 50k or so in your teerak when you would lose 10x that in farangistan if things go tits up. Seriously mate if you have to do all this legal research over a drop in the bucket you need to re-evaluate yourself or your teerak.

Cake and eat it.

Why even comment? Oh I know why MATE !