Proper braking technique for scooters with CBS

[lachiplo]

Am I right to assume the best way of braking a scooter with cbs is to completely ignore the right lever and relying only on the left lever?

I am slightly confused about the cbs thing, if left lever also activate front brakes, does that meant that by applying both lever i am braking even harder on the front brakes, risking a front wheel lock? in that case, should we avoid using both levers as the same time?

[NeverSure]

I haven't ridden one of those but you are supposed to get at least 60% of your braking from your front wheel. This is because weight transfer of the bike will put the most traction on the front wheel. If you just use the rear brake, it won't have nearly the traction. You can stop in about 1/2 the distance using your front rather than your rear brake.

If I had a bike with ABS where both wheels braked by the same lever, I would find out if it has a bias valve and adjust it until I was getting good front wheel braking and weight transfer onto that front wheel.

I didn't answer your question, but I'd experiment until I found out how to get that braking to the front wheel.

Source: I'm a certified motorcycle instructor.

Edited January 29, 2014 by NeverSure

[paz]

All depends by the situation. To slow down or stop at slow speed it doesn't really matter much, but use left lever preferably.

At sustained or high speed:

For strong or emergency braking on dry road, squeeze both levers fully. No wheel will lock.

For strong braking on wet road, pinch left lever carefully, be ready to release or modulate strength.

For emergency braking on wet road, as above but in extreme situations don't count on stopping upright, swerve if possible or jump.

,

Edited January 29, 2014 by paz

[seedy]

Left lever rear brake, right lever front brake.

For max braking, squeeze both hard. In a panic stop try and remain upright, as brake effectiveness decreases with the bike laying on its side.

Beware of too much front brake, the traffic lines here have many coats of paint and become very slippery. I have had my front wheel begin to wash out many times. as well the asphalt becomes very polished.

[VocalNeal]

This is an interesting question.

What happens on say Samui/Pattaya/Phuket if one brakes with the left lever when there is sand on the road? Is there a risk of the front wheel slipping out from under one as it will have braking force applied to it as well.

[seedy]

This is an interesting question.

What happens on say Samui/Pattaya/Phuket if one brakes with the left lever when there is sand on the road? Is there a risk of the front wheel slipping out from under one as it will have braking force applied to it as well.

My PCX 150 service manual does not give the ratio of force applied per lever application, but seat-of-the-pants testing (always subjective) tells me that it is about 70/30 or 80/20.

Apply front, get 30% to rear. And vice versa.

Never had the front washout just applying just rear brake, but always use both during all stops so would not notice.

[paz]

Left lever rear brake, right lever front brake.

You may have missed that OP question is specifically about CBS - Combined Braking System.

On these, left levers activate both brakes with a intensity ratio, possibly of 50/50.

That changes the game a little, because one can't exclude front braking, however that is not very important on an utility scooter.

The main danger remains the same on both systems: on a wet road, and any speed, squeeze well the right lever and you're down.

[seedy]

From Honda website.

Mechanical Combi Brake for small scooters

A number of small scooters are equipped with mechanical drum brakes. The mechanical Combi Brake is a system designed for small scooters. On application of the left lever, the brakes will work simultaneously on the front and rear wheels through the equalizer. On input of low power, however, the front wheel brake efficacy is checked to bring nosedive closer to the former level caused by operation of the left lever. Thanks to the system, a high degree of deceleration is effectively obtained through a single operation of the left lever.

[seedy]

Apply front, get 30% to rear. And vice versa.

Re-read my post above - just noticed the typo.

Should be ..

Apply rear - get 30% front. Not vice versa.

Always was a PP speller !!

As soon as mine is off warranty, I am getting rid of the CBS. Will have full control of front and rear brakes.

Edited January 30, 2014 by seedy

[paz]

My comment was based on your opening statement:

Left lever rear brake, right lever front brake

That's not completely true with CBS.

Splitting may be 30% front, or even more. Some tuning is possible using the rear adjuster.

Personally I don't dislike CBS at all but would prefer to have it on the right lever.

Edited January 30, 2014 by paz

[dave_boo]

On the PCX 125 I found that mashing the crap out of the left and modulating with the right makes for very quick and safe stops.

Try it in an empty parking lot to get a feel for it.

[macknife]

I have a Honda Airblade. I would never use only the left combi brake for all braking. Slamming the left brake will bring the bike to a gentle stop and cannot possibly come close to locking the front wheel. The right front brake has easily the best stopping power in an emergency or even just to slow down rapidly. Paz in his 1st post gives good advice. Getting good tyres is important. I changed mine and can emergency stop using both levers in heavy rain without even skidding at all, the original tyres would slide around. The combi brake left lever is handy for heavy traffic maneuvering. Like dave says, take it to an empty carpark or a quiet road and experiment, you'll soon learn the limits of both brakes.

[mallymal]

My take on it is always use both brakes (on a click 125i with combi anyway) I've tried using just left at slow speed and have locked up the rear wheel. I now use both. Remember a combi brake isn't the same as ABS.

Probably the most important thing to remember with any motorcycling is scrub off your speed on a straight line, rather then using brakes going around corners as this is when bike is most unstable.

[indothai]

I just bought the Honda Scoopy-i Club 12 with the CBS thingy. The sales had a hard time trying to explain to me how it works, but I did try the following scenario:

In a standard parking garage, cement ground/surface, and not speeding excessively, normal parking garage speed :

- Applied just the front brakes only and the scooter would dive as normal.

-- At one point I did manage to lock the front wheel and almost ground the scooter.

- Applied the left lever and the scooter feels to stop better, less of a dive.

-- I did try to apply the left lever as hard as I could but never did get to lock up any wheels before coming to a stop. ( I was in a parking garage so I was watching my speed, ie not speeding.).

On the street I'm still mostly using the front brakes, old school mentality kicking in. Whenever I can, I try to "test" the CBS on the street.

I never owned a bike with ABS, owned bikes in the mid to late 90's, CBR's, FZR's... so I've been taught to use the rear brakes sparingly.

I still need to get used to the CBS thingy, mentality of it all I guess, not trusting it and afraid that the rear wheels will lockup and slide out.

I do wish Honda would put out some tech data on the CBS thingy...rather than the "laymen" explanation found on the inter-web.

[dave_boo]

I just bought the Honda Scoopy-i Club 12 with the CBS thingy. The sales had a hard time trying to explain to me how it works, but I did try the following scenario:

In a standard parking garage, cement ground/surface, and not speeding excessively, normal parking garage speed :

- Applied just the front brakes only and the scooter would dive as normal.

-- At one point I did manage to lock the front wheel and almost ground the scooter.

- Applied the left lever and the scooter feels to stop better, less of a dive.

-- I did try to apply the left lever as hard as I could but never did get to lock up any wheels before coming to a stop. ( I was in a parking garage so I was watching my speed, ie not speeding.).

On the street I'm still mostly using the front brakes, old school mentality kicking in. Whenever I can, I try to "test" the CBS on the street.

I never owned a bike with ABS, owned bikes in the mid to late 90's, CBR's, FZR's... so I've been taught to use the rear brakes sparingly.

I still need to get used to the CBS thingy, mentality of it all I guess, not trusting it and afraid that the rear wheels will lockup and slide out.

I do wish Honda would put out some tech data on the CBS thingy...rather than the "laymen" explanation found on the inter-web.

Since you are used to riding bikes with proper transmissions, think of it more like a clutch and less like a brake. Works for me. Inlaws do the same; I am constantly adjusting and replacing the rear brake on the Airblade....

[namdocmai]

On my Honda SH with CBS the left lever controls the back wheel and the 2 outer pistons of the front brake. The 3rd piston (middle one) of the front brake is controlled by the right lever only.

By using both levers the bike brakes better then only the left lever and dives more. I have 16" wheels/tires and love this brakesystem.