accident at school

[JLCrab]

From a post above: So this becomes Negligence on the part of this school

Something only becomes negligence when a court says so or when the insurance company representing a concerned party agrees that an act of negligence has been committed. It does not arise from the vapor.

[nicelee808]

Thanks all, for your replies.

We attended the meeting, there was me and my wife, the grandparents of the injured boy, nearly every teacher in the school and a rep from the insurances company.

After listening to the advise here, I said nothing and told my wife to be considerate regarding the boy but try to say as little as possible and not to accept liability.

The Grandparents gave there case of the trauma they have been through, which is completely understandable, they went on to say that they are ready to go to the newspapers and take the matter further, but would prefer to be able to come to a conclusion now to maintain a good relationship with all parties. They then directed their focus to my wife as regards to compensation, my wife agreed they should be compensated, but we believe it is the responsibility of the school to compensate them. The insurance rep basically stated that they would cover the medical expenses, which I believe was not a lot.

The grandparents requested 30,000 Bt to end the issue now, once they left, me and my wife sat down with the director of the school and they have asked if there is any way we can help towards the 30,000. they agree that it is there responsibilty but that our child was involved and the normal thai way would be that we would contribute to the compensation.

We have not yet decided if we will help or not, we spoke to a solicitor and to my surprise he agreed that we the parents and the school should come to an agreement, and that the last thing anybody wants is for this matter to go to court. If we were in England I would say no way, but I'm not. Furthermore what makes it more difficult is that, its not a lot of money considering the injury. If this was in England they would get a lot more.

So, now I'm thinking shall we give, if so how much, discussing with my wife, she thinks that we should not pay, but in order to maintain healthy relations it might not be such a bad idea, she suggested to me 5,000 and suggested well if we are gonna help then we should go to 10,000.

please give your input again.

[JLCrab]

Something you have not mentioned is how much your son enjoys attending and wants to continue to enjoy attending this particular school which should also be a factor in your consideration.

[Sayonarax]

loco parentis "in the place of a parent" such as school time

Any reason for speaking Spanish?

[nicelee808]

Something you have not mentioned is how much your son enjoys attending and wants to continue to enjoy attending this particular school which should also be a factor in your consideration.

This is also true

[speedtripler]

the school agrees its their responsibility but still thinks maybe you should do the thai thing and pay for it ............lol

[speedtripler]

Thanks all, for your replies.

We attended the meeting, there was me and my wife, the grandparents of the injured boy, nearly every teacher in the school and a rep from the insurances company.

After listening to the advise here, I said nothing and told my wife to be considerate regarding the boy but try to say as little as possible and not to accept liability.

The Grandparents gave there case of the trauma they have been through, which is completely understandable, they went on to say that they are ready to go to the newspapers and take the matter further, but would prefer to be able to come to a conclusion now to maintain a good relationship with all parties. They then directed their focus to my wife as regards to compensation, my wife agreed they should be compensated, but we believe it is the responsibility of the school to compensate them. The insurance rep basically stated that they would cover the medical expenses, which I believe was not a lot.

The grandparents requested 30,000 Bt to end the issue now, once they left, me and my wife sat down with the director of the school and they have asked if there is any way we can help towards the 30,000. they agree that it is there responsibilty but that our child was involved and the normal thai way would be that we would contribute to the compensation.

We have not yet decided if we will help or not, we spoke to a solicitor and to my surprise he agreed that we the parents and the school should come to an agreement, and that the last thing anybody wants is for this matter to go to court. If we were in England I would say no way, but I'm not. Furthermore what makes it more difficult is that, its not a lot of money considering the injury. If this was in England they would get a lot more.

So, now I'm thinking shall we give, if so how much, discussing with my wife, she thinks that we should not pay, but in order to maintain healthy relations it might not be such a bad idea, she suggested to me 5,000 and suggested well if we are gonna help then we should go to 10,000.

please give your input again.

the newspapers are not going to buy a story like this,if you dont care either way let them try it

the school might like to keep it quiet but if they care so much its only 30,000 and could probably he haggled to 20,000

[JLCrab]

Note that in the Thai civil Code there is the concept of joint or share responsibility for injuries.

[sam sen]

the school has a duty of care for their staff, students and anyone visiting their school

[Neeranam]

SOunds to me like they think you are a mug based on the fact you are a foreigner.

I would go to the meeting threaten to sue them if they try to pin the blame on you. It was not your fault nor your sons. I'd say, "arai ja gerd, go hai man gerd".

However, maybe they are just wanting a meeting to explain the situation and take all responsibility.

[JLCrab]

SOunds to me like they think you are a mug based on the fact you are a foreigner.

I would go to the meeting threaten to sue them if they try to pin the blame on you. It was not your fault nor your sons. I'd say, "arai ja gerd, go hai man gerd".

However, maybe they are just wanting a meeting to explain the situation and take all responsibility.

Why not just tell them it is a case of mistaken identity and your son was not at the school that day but was vacationing with you in the Bahamas.

[inzman]

A kid broke his arm at school, it happens, go to the doctor get patched up. Oh, but their is a Falang involved, this now includes compensation? Of which is unheard of in this country . What a disgrace, pay nothing! They wouldn't pay you if the situation is reversed. By the way, a death here is only worth 100,000. What a travesty.

[Neeranam]

A kid broke his arm at school, it happens, go to the doctor get patched up. Oh, but their is a Falang involved, this now includes compensation? Of which is unheard of in this country . What a disgrace, pay nothing! They wouldn't pay you if the situation is reversed. By the way, a death here is only worth 100,000. What a travesty.

Why I would threaten to sue them.

If you kill someone on the roads it's 50,000 baht compensation.

[taotoo]

If you end up paying anything have them sign something agreeing that the payment is in full and final settlement of the matter, and that it is not an admission of liability. Alternatively, rather than pay the parents/grandparents, you might make a donation to the school's 'we need a xxx' fund, in the child's name - the school can then compensate the grandparents with the same amount on your behalf.

[Thai at Heart]

Thanks all, for your replies.

We attended the meeting, there was me and my wife, the grandparents of the injured boy, nearly every teacher in the school and a rep from the insurances company.

After listening to the advise here, I said nothing and told my wife to be considerate regarding the boy but try to say as little as possible and not to accept liability.

The Grandparents gave there case of the trauma they have been through, which is completely understandable, they went on to say that they are ready to go to the newspapers and take the matter further, but would prefer to be able to come to a conclusion now to maintain a good relationship with all parties. They then directed their focus to my wife as regards to compensation, my wife agreed they should be compensated, but we believe it is the responsibility of the school to compensate them. The insurance rep basically stated that they would cover the medical expenses, which I believe was not a lot.

The grandparents requested 30,000 Bt to end the issue now, once they left, me and my wife sat down with the director of the school and they have asked if there is any way we can help towards the 30,000. they agree that it is there responsibilty but that our child was involved and the normal thai way would be that we would contribute to the compensation.

We have not yet decided if we will help or not, we spoke to a solicitor and to my surprise he agreed that we the parents and the school should come to an agreement, and that the last thing anybody wants is for this matter to go to court. If we were in England I would say no way, but I'm not. Furthermore what makes it more difficult is that, its not a lot of money considering the injury. If this was in England they would get a lot more.

So, now I'm thinking shall we give, if so how much, discussing with my wife, she thinks that we should not pay, but in order to maintain healthy relations it might not be such a bad idea, she suggested to me 5,000 and suggested well if we are gonna help then we should go to 10,000.

please give your input again.

The expenses are covered. What compensation is required?

Is the kids going to be permenantly damaged or handicapped?

[somchaismith]

Ezy pezy, from what you've said, it sounds as though they are coming the raw prawn with you. Get a lawyer's business card and tell the kid's parents to deal directly with your lawyer.

[Mario2008]

They are asking 30,000 for psychological damages. That seems excessive to me.

A teacher at my school was involved in a deadly accident. The family wanted 100,000 thousand, after 20,000 was offered because the teacher was sorry for the family and she wanted to help them. They went to court and lost, as the teacher was not at fault.

I would tell the school that as they accept responsibility, they should pay and that you are interested to hear what amount was negotiated upon. Hinting at a possible donation, but no guarantees you will and that it will only be a modest amount. Or that you will buy a bicycle for the injured child, or something like that.

As has been said, your child's future at that school must also be considered and will be a factor in compensating.

[wym]

How refreshing for the OP to actually return to keep us updated - thanks!

Obviously since this looks like a request for a voluntary contribution, nothing more to be said other than "up to you".

Only you can weigh the value of goodwill at the school, your reputation in the community, desire for lack of publicity, etc.

And of course what you can afford.

You're also free to say "zero" but it seems to me you're not so inclined.

Do what you think is right and kind and I'm pretty sure it will work out fine.

[CWMcMurray]

If you end up paying anything have them sign something agreeing that the payment is in full and final settlement of the matter, and that it is not an admission of liability. Alternatively, rather than pay the parents/grandparents, you might make a donation to the school's 'we need a xxx' fund, in the child's name - the school can then compensate the grandparents with the same amount on your behalf.

I like the idea of admitting no guilt or responsibility but on a separate note.. the donation to the school...

Of course legally you are not responsible, but if you like the school.. It may be worth kicking in 5-10k for "good will"

If you do decide to contribute would definitely go the donation route.

As seems like a very face saving way to handle, I am sure all will be happy

Oh yeah... Also make sure to get a receipt... Donation's to schools are tax deductible

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[GOLDBUGGY]

If the school has a Liability Waiver Clause, that you may have signed, then the school is protected against liability for common accidents. But this does not shield them from every accident that could happen at the school.

Imagine for a second the school builds a Soccer Field (Football to some) and you sign a waiver to allow your son to play. In the course of a normal game your son trips, falls and breaks his arm. In this case the school cannot be held responsible as you knew there were risks in your son playing this game and gave your permission.

On the other hand, this same school builds this Soccer Field over Land Mines and a few players get hurt as a result of this. This Waiver no longer protects them as the school is also expected to provide a safe area for the children to play in, which they did not. So this becomes Negligence on the part of this school and they would be held responsible.

Which brings this back to your case. Why was this plank of wood made available to children to use in a School Play Ground? Why were they unsupervised, or they weren't caught until after the incident? These are points you may want to raise with the school, and other parents, before you go to the meeting at the school to show Negligence of the part of the school. Also so you can both be on the same side when you go. They also probably signed this waiver to.

If this school refuses to see this and acknowledge this, and refuses to pay at any cost then you are left with 1 options, IMHO. You can't fight the school as it was not your child who got hurt, thus you did not incur any medical expenses. It is up to the injured boys parents to do so. So they have the option to go after them, but also you as well, in a court of law. I think in Thailand many people just represent themselves in court. Especially small claims.

If I was you I wouldn't want to get dragged into any of this over a relatively small sum of money. Who knows if this injured boys uncle isn't a Lawyer willing to work for them for free and also go after you for all the suffering and pain this boy went through? Unless you have the same you can't win no matter the outcome. I would hate going to court and fighting over this as well. So if all else fails I think I would try to make an agreement with the Injured boys parents and split the cost with them for this injury. Tell them they can go after the school for the rest of this money, or leave it alone. I think they will consider this fare and not hold a grudge against you later. But...as always...Up-to-You! . .

You raise some very good point, yet at the end you say that even though they may not be liable, that you recommend that they should pay up. If the school is at fault, as it seems to be, there is no way, that the OP should even consider parting with his money.

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What you say may very well be true and I agree with you totally..

What I was saying is that it may come down to a choice of parting with some of his money now, to keep the piece and good relations with this injured boys parents, or going to court to fight to protect it. Personally I have better things to do with my time then being dragged into court or spending more money on legal fees then the cost of these Medical Bills. Which would help a lot if he knew what this total Bill was going to be.

I know it is worth a lot to some people to fight when they feel they are right. Even over nothing. I will fight for a Principle to. But in this case this involves a fellow student and although there son was not totally to blame, he was involved an the cause of an accident that hurt someone. Even when he didn't meant that to happen as it was an accident. So not a "Done Deal" that if he fights this case he might lose anyway, and also be stuck with their court cost as well.

The school in my view is responsible for non supervision and having wooden planks lying around the school yard. Even with out this incident some kid could easily get slivers from them, or a nail through their foot, if one was in that plank. But if they don't fess up, what are you going to do about it. Especially if the other parents agree and are going to take you to court, and not the school?

I said I would probably pay up (within reason) and for them it was Up-to-you!

[JLCrab]

There isn't any kid who doesn't know what happens when you get off the down end of the saw-saw -- makeshift or otherwise -- when then the other kid is still up in the air:

Edited February 2, 2014 by JLCrab

[nontabury]

A few days ago I was speaking with a group of Farangs about a similar situation(car accident)

The question we raised, what would you do if you were not responsible for causing an accident.

Everybody agreed that a Thai would most likely NOT agree to pay if they were not in the wrong, and they certainly would not worry about any repercussions.

A couple of these Farangs mentioned that they have no money, 1/ lives on a teachers salary of 27,000 per month, while the other relies on an even smaller amount, approx less then 20,000.

How can they get money from them, in other words how can you get blood from stone.

Of course many Thai's seem to think that ALL Farangs have plenty of money, and I think this is the

Problem, personally if I am responsible I will pay, if I am not, then I will not pay. Some people have said they will pay just to keep the peace and to keep well in with the school, again what would a Thai do? Especially if the injured child was a farang or leuk Krung.

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[impulse]

I appreciate the OP's returning to update the situation.

It's also good to hear that the worst case scenario is 30,000 baht.

As some other posters have stated, the amount you settle on is now a matter of what you can afford, what you believe is the right thing to do, and how it will affect your relationships with people around you and your child.

Best of luck.

[GOLDBUGGY]

A few days ago I was speaking with a group of Farangs about a similar situation(car accident)

The question we raised, what would you do if you were not responsible for causing an accident.

Everybody agreed that a Thai would most likely NOT agree to pay if they were not in the wrong, and they certainly would not worry about any repercussions.

A couple of these Farangs mentioned that they have no money, 1/ lives on a teachers salary of 27,000 per month, while the other relies on an even smaller amount, approx less then 20,000.

How can they get money from them, in other words how can you get blood from stone.

Of course many Thai's seem to think that ALL Farangs have plenty of money, and I think this is the

Problem, personally if I am responsible I will pay, if I am not, then I will not pay. Some people have said they will pay just to keep the peace and to keep well in with the school, again what would a Thai do? Especially if the injured child was a farang or leuk Krung.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Okay! It seems cut and dry for you. If you are responsible for the accident you would pay. If you were not, then you won't pay. Seems plausible enough but in real life it doesn't happen that way all the time. Let me give you a true example of what happened to me in Canada.

I was on my way to work in my older car, when I was hit from the side at an intersection. It was a 5 way intersection where two junctions were straight through, two junctions had Yield Signs, and 1 Junction had a Stop Sign. I was travelling on the straight through, with no signs heading South to North. Which is a direct route from my home to work. I went home for lunch.

The person that hit me was a young teenage with her boyfriend of the same age on there way to High School. They were travelling West to East, which is the shortest way to travel from their home to school. I was on there right side when they hit me, as they went through a Yield Sign Clearly Posted their. (Yield on the Right Side in Canada). They both came running to my car to see if I was hurt and both apologized to me many times for hitting me. The Boyfriend tried to blame me at first but then realized they were in the wrong.

After an exchange of Licenses and Names, I had to move my car as it was blocking traffic. The tire was also leaking so I wanted to get it to the near-by shop to fix before I wouldn't be able to move it. From the shop I called the Police who logged the accident, but since no one was injured and the damage not that great, that is all they wanted to do with no investigation.

So there you go. Clearly a cut and dry case where I was in a no fault of my own accident. That is until I went to the Insurance Company. I came prepared with all the details including a drawing of the Intersection, that he knows well. Where I was travelling from and to and why. Where they were travelling from and to and why. At the end of this he believed me totally. But then told me his hands were tied.

The reason being that the Teenage Girl that hit me has a father who is the best known lawyer in the area, as he is the best lawyer in the area. They were taking me to court saying I came from the Stop Sign Road, which is crazy as I had no reason to come from their. Just a Rail Car Loading Area, where I don't work their. But no matter how you look at it, it is the word of 2 against 1. So what do you do now?

If I agreed to plead guilty, I would be hit with $200 extra on my insurance for 1 year, and then another $100 the next. So $300 in total. My car was old which I used for work only and wasn't worth anything Insurance wise. So no matter who was guilty I would not get any money to fix it. Or fight this case knowing I was right. Which means taking several days off work, without pay, to attend the Court Hearings, which he would drag on and on, as he works their and I do not. Or try and find a Lawyer who would go against him and his Dear Friend. Which cost $500 before you even begin to chat with him. Which I doubted he would give it his best effort anyway, if I did decide to fight it and pay.

So I paid the $300 knowing it was not my fault and moved on. I am still bitter about that but in life it happens that way sometimes. For sure I was never bothered about it after that. Just bitter when I think of it now. But for sure I always felt I did the right thing, or at least the only thing I could do at that time. So to me it is never that cut and dry.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Thanks all, for your replies.

We attended the meeting, there was me and my wife, the grandparents of the injured boy, nearly every teacher in the school and a rep from the insurances company.

After listening to the advise here, I said nothing and told my wife to be considerate regarding the boy but try to say as little as possible and not to accept liability.

The Grandparents gave there case of the trauma they have been through, which is completely understandable, they went on to say that they are ready to go to the newspapers and take the matter further, but would prefer to be able to come to a conclusion now to maintain a good relationship with all parties. They then directed their focus to my wife as regards to compensation, my wife agreed they should be compensated, but we believe it is the responsibility of the school to compensate them. The insurance rep basically stated that they would cover the medical expenses, which I believe was not a lot.

The grandparents requested 30,000 Bt to end the issue now, once they left, me and my wife sat down with the director of the school and they have asked if there is any way we can help towards the 30,000. they agree that it is there responsibilty but that our child was involved and the normal thai way would be that we would contribute to the compensation.

We have not yet decided if we will help or not, we spoke to a solicitor and to my surprise he agreed that we the parents and the school should come to an agreement, and that the last thing anybody wants is for this matter to go to court. If we were in England I would say no way, but I'm not. Furthermore what makes it more difficult is that, its not a lot of money considering the injury. If this was in England they would get a lot more.

So, now I'm thinking shall we give, if so how much, discussing with my wife, she thinks that we should not pay, but in order to maintain healthy relations it might not be such a bad idea, she suggested to me 5,000 and suggested well if we are gonna help then we should go to 10,000.

please give your input again.

Since the school has agreed to pay the Medical Expenses than I think 10,000 Baht is a nice gesture. After all, it is a broken arm, not a broken neck, so that will get the kids new bike and he would soon forget his injury.

So I would say go for it, and then move on. But as suggested, get something in writing from them that ends this once and for all. If they are not happy with this, give them nothing.

[jackr]

As sad and typical as the 'trauma' angle likely is in order for these people to make some money out of their son/grandson's injury (), if your kid likes the school I'd consider a donation (5-10k, don't sign anything!). If he doesn't like it all that much, I'd consider not paying and moving on. It may be best to move on in any case as the schools/Thai teachers here have this petty knack of singling kids out when something has happened.

[eezergood]

On principle I would not pay - but if your son is happy and it keeps the status quo then perhaps.....

But this nonsence about trauma is a scam! How many of us had injuries as kids? I sure did, and 30+ yrs later I am not haunted by them, in fact I am certain i wasnt hauted by them as soon as the scabs healed....

[nicelee808]

Hi all, thanks for your comments,

I suppose when it comes to issues such as this Thailand is a very different place.

Anyway we offererd the school 10,000 and to my surprise they were grateful and didn't ask for more, we made it clear that this was a donation to the cause and feel the school is responsible for the care of all the children during the school hours and if a similar occurrence happens again, we will remove our children from the school. Fingers crossed for all the children that there are no more accidents and no more broken bones.