Thai opposition under fire for election boycott

[nakhonandy]

please remember the constitution was formed by the Military and amended by.......... (drum roll)................the Dems

and he claims it's "unconstitutional" so he's not voting?

hmmm should someone remind him?

Again this is why I'm so confused. My short attempt at research tells me that the constitution and whole electoral process that the undemocratic democrats and the absolute democratarians of K.Suthep are all sooooo upset about were actually created by THEM ... why cant they just be honest and say they screwed it up themselves and just want another free undemocratic hand to try and stop other politicians from beating them at their own game .. it's almost beyond laughable if this is true. The Yellows with the support of the Army (or is it really the other way around if we're going to be really honest) built this constitution that they keep going to court with to stop YL from doing anything ... and they use the EC to try to stop democracy from working so they can stage another coup to do yet another rewrite ... have I got this right?

Something else that confuses me is the Upper House ... I think I've read that YL wanted to change the constitution to make it 100% elected by the people and the democrats are opposed to this. Err excuse my absolute ignorance again but doesn't a democracy REQUIRE a fully elected upper and lower house ... I mean come on ... that's kinda the WHOLE POINT!!!!

So when I see people opposing a government body being fully elected, staging one coup after another, minorities preventing normal citizens from voting, passing the blame of their own flawed constitution onto their more successful opposition, trying to change the constitution (yet again) to prevent a govt from offering popularist policies (the whole purpose of a political party) I have to wonder why they just cant be honest and say they don't want a democracy ... why the charade???

Could it be perhaps that they actually realise they will never win an election democratically? I really think that they aren't so angry with Thaksin as they say, moreover they're using him to distract the public from the fact they actually have nothing better to offer themselves ... I mean I challenge any pro-Supthepian to offer me the wonderous policies he has to help grow the country for all Thai people (economics, education policy, health policy, etc) ... and whilst you're at it can you also explain to me what the yellow policies are because all I can find them doing is opposing everything.

i see and agree with your last paragraph.. there do not seem to be any. BUT i would ask what is the Phua Thai election manifesto?

Exactly the same as it was when they were elected last time.

[Jack Mountain]

@Mot Leei

"Something else that confuses me is the Upper House ... I think I've read that YL wanted to change the constitution to make it 100% elected by the people and the democrats are opposed to this. Err excuse my absolute ignorance again but doesn't a democracy REQUIRE a fully elected upper and lower house ... I mean come on ... that's kinda the WHOLE POINT!!!!"

As how i understand it, she wants that those ppl will be chosen by a committee and not by the ppl.

So the powers to be can put their own ppl (family, friends) at that spot.

No, you are incorrect.

"As how i understand it, she wants that those ppl will be chosen by a committee and not by the ppl." Replace "she" with "Suthep"

No seriously ... I understand Suthep doesn't want a democratically elected govt (be it upper or lower house), but did PTP try to change the constitution to have the upper house fully elected OR appointed ... can I get an actual answer on this?

I think now TX is right, read this ... http://www.freedistrict.com/news/asia/thailand/thai-court-rules-charter-amendment-unconstitutional-5012.html

[casualbiker]

please remember the constitution was formed by the Military and amended by.......... (drum roll)................the Dems

and he claims it's "unconstitutional" so he's not voting?

hmmm should someone remind him?

Again this is why I'm so confused. My short attempt at research tells me that the constitution and whole electoral process that the undemocratic democrats and the absolute democratarians of K.Suthep are all sooooo upset about were actually created by THEM ... why cant they just be honest and say they screwed it up themselves and just want another free undemocratic hand to try and stop other politicians from beating them at their own game .. it's almost beyond laughable if this is true. The Yellows with the support of the Army (or is it really the other way around if we're going to be really honest) built this constitution that they keep going to court with to stop YL from doing anything ... and they use the EC to try to stop democracy from working so they can stage another coup to do yet another rewrite ... have I got this right?

Something else that confuses me is the Upper House ... I think I've read that YL wanted to change the constitution to make it 100% elected by the people and the democrats are opposed to this. Err excuse my absolute ignorance again but doesn't a democracy REQUIRE a fully elected upper and lower house ... I mean come on ... that's kinda the WHOLE POINT!!!!

So when I see people opposing a government body being fully elected, staging one coup after another, minorities preventing normal citizens from voting, passing the blame of their own flawed constitution onto their more successful opposition, trying to change the constitution (yet again) to prevent a govt from offering popularist policies (the whole purpose of a political party) I have to wonder why they just cant be honest and say they don't want a democracy ... why the charade???

Could it be perhaps that they actually realise they will never win an election democratically? I really think that they aren't so angry with Thaksin as they say, moreover they're using him to distract the public from the fact they actually have nothing better to offer themselves ... I mean I challenge any pro-Supthepian to offer me the wonderous policies he has to help grow the country for all Thai people (economics, education policy, health policy, etc) ... and whilst you're at it can you also explain to me what the yellow policies are because all I can find them doing is opposing everything.

i see and agree with your last paragraph.. there do not seem to be any. BUT i would ask what is the Phua Thai election manifesto?

Exactly the same as it was when they were elected last time.

Cool .. ummm and what was that?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tingtongteesood]

So 'Mark' has personally turned his back on Democracy. Under orders from above.

Dunno. But taking orders from above is how it is done in Yingluck's wonderland. Skype, wouldn't you know, plays a big part in it

And of course Mark isnt advised or taking orders from anyone right ?

The PT cronies, criminals and anyone else have given copious evidence in the past few years that Taksin is the person in charge. Taksin speaks PT carries out his dastardly orders, it is well known and has been admitted to numerous times.

Since you seem to think you know so much, please tell us who you think Abisit has recieved his skyped orders from and kindly back that up with at least 1 legitimate refernce. Or else please stop with the bs and utter tripe you keep spewing here....Thank you.

[Richard W]

There is Banharn Silpa-archa's Chart Thai Pattana party. There even used to be a mighty Chart Thai Party, from which the Chart Pattana Party split off.

Banharn's Chart Thai party was dissolved for electoral irregularities in the 2007 election, and reformed as Chart Thai Pattana.

[love1012]

AFP again!

We all know the "AFP" is financially supported by Thaksin!

The usual baseless shrill accusation from someone unwilling (or able) to engage in reasoned debate. Probably libelous too.

AFP IS supported by Thaksin - why else would they need to mention Abhisit means privelidge? Typical red shirt to put in the libel comment though -

[love1012]

Forgive my ignorance of things Thailand ... I've only lived here 3 years so far .... so please help me understand ...

In Thailand there are clearly more rural poor than all the rich, middle class and fragmented students put together … soooo much more. Even with Yinglucks god awful rice scheme losing her considerable votes, there are still more rural poor creating Thailands clear majority. In any election where everyone gets an equal vote, then the way the scales will tip is clearly obvious … with or without reform, with or without vote buying, with or without corruption, with or without protests, with or without violence … there’s only one possible outcome … people will support whoever supports the poor.

This is why I really don’t understand why the mis-named democracy party doesn’t try to appeal to the poor with programs that will actually do something to improve their quality of life … and please don’t give me the American trickle down rhetoric … this is an election. Popular policies are what democracy is all about … the majority … if you have a problem with that then what you want is not democracy. Thaksin might be many things, but at least he was smart enough to know you had to appease the poor first … which at least makes him the first true democrat in Thailand (as begrudged as I am to say that).

The thing that scares me though … and I mean really scares me … are the very poorly defined changes that Khun Suthep wants. Here is a man who changes his demands and direction on a daily basis, calling himself democratic, but failing to actually put out for public scrutiny the changes he wants to see in Thailand. He has had a phenomenal opportunity given to him in this protest … he could have publicised a clear plan forward that would appeal to ALL Thai people (that he assumes he represents) and gone to the election with that … and if he really had the peoples support as he claims, then they would have given him the mandate to do as he wishes. But he’s done nothing but called civil disobedience (and I’m being kind when I say that), in any other country he’d be in jail or dead already (which unfortunately speaks more admirably of the caretaker govt). NEVER trust a man who wants you to follow him based only on his hatred of another person.

Thailand if you want a democracy, and I mean a real democracy where all people are considered equal, then voting is the ONLY way forward even if the current system is flawed. Democracy doesn’t happen over night; it’s something the takes time to grow and evolve. You have to play the game to change the rules. You have to learn how to appeal to the people and how to serve their interests rather than your own. The only way forward is to listen to the people and win their hearts. Democracy has NEVER been found in the hands of someone who stopped people from voting using fear, intimidation and violence … never. And I hope tomorrow that the people of Thailand are allowed the opportunity to peacefully choose for themselves what they want, instead of being scared off by people forcing them to do what a VERY small minority wants.

Peace.

I don't think you're ignorant, far from it - a rare voice of sanity. But you will doubtless be told you just don't understand Thainess. I would say you haven't been here long enough to be brainwashed, or sozzle your brain. Democracy is not only about elections, of course, but you cannot have democracy without elections. Perhaps some posters would like to go and live in North Korea and see what the people there would say about the idea of voluntarily rejecting the right to vote.

WHo are you lot kidding - a red shirt attempt at giving them credibility from a neutral point of view - you must remember some of us have education beyond the red village green!! AND WE USE IT!!

Edited February 1, 2014 by love1012

[love1012]

Forgive my ignorance of things Thailand ... I've only lived here 3 years so far .... so please help me understand ...

In Thailand there are clearly more rural poor than all the rich, middle class and fragmented students put together … soooo much more. Even with Yinglucks god awful rice scheme losing her considerable votes, there are still more rural poor creating Thailands clear majority. In any election where everyone gets an equal vote, then the way the scales will tip is clearly obvious … with or without reform, with or without vote buying, with or without corruption, with or without protests, with or without violence … there’s only one possible outcome … people will support whoever supports the poor.

This is why I really don’t understand why the mis-named democracy party doesn’t try to appeal to the poor with programs that will actually do something to improve their quality of life … and please don’t give me the American trickle down rhetoric … this is an election. Popular policies are what democracy is all about … the majority … if you have a problem with that then what you want is not democracy. Thaksin might be many things, but at least he was smart enough to know you had to appease the poor first … which at least makes him the first true democrat in Thailand (as begrudged as I am to say that).

The thing that scares me though … and I mean really scares me … are the very poorly defined changes that Khun Suthep wants. Here is a man who changes his demands and direction on a daily basis, calling himself democratic, but failing to actually put out for public scrutiny the changes he wants to see in Thailand. He has had a phenomenal opportunity given to him in this protest … he could have publicised a clear plan forward that would appeal to ALL Thai people (that he assumes he represents) and gone to the election with that … and if he really had the peoples support as he claims, then they would have given him the mandate to do as he wishes. But he’s done nothing but called civil disobedience (and I’m being kind when I say that), in any other country he’d be in jail or dead already (which unfortunately speaks more admirably of the caretaker govt). NEVER trust a man who wants you to follow him based only on his hatred of another person.

Thailand if you want a democracy, and I mean a real democracy where all people are considered equal, then voting is the ONLY way forward even if the current system is flawed. Democracy doesn’t happen over night; it’s something the takes time to grow and evolve. You have to play the game to change the rules. You have to learn how to appeal to the people and how to serve their interests rather than your own. The only way forward is to listen to the people and win their hearts. Democracy has NEVER been found in the hands of someone who stopped people from voting using fear, intimidation and violence … never. And I hope tomorrow that the people of Thailand are allowed the opportunity to peacefully choose for themselves what they want, instead of being scared off by people forcing them to do what a VERY small minority wants.

Peace.

I don't think you're ignorant, far from it - a rare voice of sanity. But you will doubtless be told you just don't understand Thainess. I would say you haven't been here long enough to be brainwashed, or sozzle your brain. Democracy is not only about elections, of course, but you cannot have democracy without elections. Perhaps some posters would like to go and live in North Korea and see what the people there would say about the idea of voluntarily rejecting the right to vote.

1) You cannot have democracy without FAIR election

2) A wanted criminal buying votes and getting his thugs to beat and destroy the property of voters is NOT democracy.

3) The democrats bought in many things like the 30 baht medical charge which was removed because of its cost by Pheu Thai.

4) Thaksin pays red shirts to lie cheat murder and intimidate - this is NOT a basis for a democracy- the longer you stay here the more you will be swayed by red rhetoric which is baseless an d plain wrong!!

5) You need to read up on Thaksin - 40 billion baht stole, company laws changed to benefit only him failed promises on traffic, murder of 3000 innocent southern people in thak bai - look it up - you will see the democrats are concerned over the country being handed over to one such as him - if this were JUST about the poor i would AGREE over them having democracy - its not - its about their masters manipulation being stopped before he can pile another 20 billion baht into his maids bank account - people forget this TRUTH TODAY!!!

[Spalpeen]

"Thai opposition under fire for election boycott" says the headline. A poor choice of words when ordinary Thai voters are on the receiving end of automatic weapons fire from army issue TAR21 assault rifles.

[northernjohn]

That confuses me as that means he can not run for political office again for 5 years. Also applies to the other democrats which makes this virtually a one party system.

No, it doesn't mean. The election will almost certainly be declared null and void. Deservedly so. I can see why Democrats don't want to participate. They simply do not want to give any legitimacy to the current government in charge. They want Yingluck's government to take the full responsibility for rice-scheme scam, tablets scam etc...etc....

Thai opposition under fire for election boycott

by Daniel ROOK

BANGKOK, February 1, 2014 (AFP) - After two decades of election defeats, Thailand's oldest political party stands accused of turning its back on democracy by refusing to contest controversial elections to be held on Sunday.

I am confused is that not the democratic way to be allowed the right to choose to participate in an election or not?

I am confused I can just imagine what the PTP is like saying it is not democratic to not participate in an election and yet they did nothing to the yellow shirts in the last election when they refused to participate.

Democracy PTP style B S flowing out of their mouth and a red army ready to cause trouble with grenades and guns. Welcome to Democracy Dubai style Thaksin style.

Edited February 1, 2014 by northernjohn

[northernjohn]

AFP again!

We all know the "AFP" is financially supported by Thaksin!

When did Thaksin start financially supporting France?

Are you aware that the AFP is a French government chartered public corporation? I have to question the sanity of someone who makes crazy claims.

Thaksin must keep you pretty busy with questions.

At least that claim crazy as it is, is not as crazy as the one where he said give him six months and he would make them all rich.

[englishoak]

So 'Mark' has personally turned his back on Democracy. Under orders from above.

Dunno. But taking orders from above is how it is done in Yingluck's wonderland. Skype, wouldn't you know, plays a big part in it

And of course Mark isnt advised or taking orders from anyone right ?

The PT cronies, criminals and anyone else have given copious evidence in the past few years that Taksin is the person in charge. Taksin speaks PT carries out his dastardly orders, it is well known and has been admitted to numerous times.

Since you seem to think you know so much, please tell us who you think Abisit has recieved his skyped orders from and kindly back that up with at least 1 legitimate refernce. Or else please stop with the bs and utter tripe you keep spewing here....Thank you.

Abhisit has no main leadership status, he flip flops he is clearly subservient to Suthep and is clearly taking advice no less than your claims on YS ...

So you want some names do you ?

General Prawit Wongsuwan, a former army commander, defense minister and elite Queen's Guard, is the most visible of what some diplomats refer to as an amorphous "council of elders" Other military "elders" reportedly include 2006 coup maker Lieutenant-General Winai Phattiyakul, former National Security chief and known Thaksin nemesis Squadron Leader Prasong Soonsiri, and retired General Saiyud Kerdphol, a former Supreme Commander and father of current army chief of staff Gen Aksra Kerdphol. Then theres good old Prem lets not forget him.

i cant say more of the who because its not allowed on this forum ..Les majeste and all that.

Just my opinion of a few who could be pulling Marks strings some certainly are and all of which have far more power than he. Sorry to upset your day but that is my opinion and I will not keep quiet for the likes of you or your fascist friends shooting at people and trying to block freedom to vote... so get used to it

Edited February 1, 2014 by englishoak

[Spalpeen]

I am confused is that not the democratic way to be allowed the right to choose to participate in an election or not?]

.

You certainly are confused.There is a legal obligation on all registered voters in Thailand to cast their votes. They have an option of ticking 'no vote' on the ballot if they don't support any of the parties listed, but they have to turn up. Same in many other countries. Any former Democrat MP who does not cast his vote will be barred from standing for election for a period of five years. Hope that cleared up your confusion.

[Mot Leei]

So you are saying that if I don't have the same opinion as you then I must be your opposition? Sorry but I fail to see that education of which you speak. But for a moment lets say I'll follow your logic ...

I have a social conscience as in I care about the less fortunate ... I am pro free education and healthcare (not simply affordable) ... I think all people should be treated equally and fairly ... I'm very pro democratic process. I'm also extremely well travelled and educated ... very lucky really. I'm fairly new to Thailand and havent had enough time to thoroughly research everything ... but somehow all this is a problem for you and makes me your opposition. By your statements I can further assume you are a Suthepian .... ergo Suthepians dont have a social conscience and are antidemocracy? .... Or did you just shoot your mouth off about someone you know little about .... do you make a habit of that?

Forgive my ignorance of things Thailand ... I've only lived here 3 years so far .... so please help me understand ...

In Thailand there are clearly more rural poor than all the rich, middle class and fragmented students put together soooo much more. Even with Yinglucks god awful rice scheme losing her considerable votes, there are still more rural poor creating Thailands clear majority. In any election where everyone gets an equal vote, then the way the scales will tip is clearly obvious with or without reform, with or without vote buying, with or without corruption, with or without protests, with or without violence theres only one possible outcome people will support whoever supports the poor.

This is why I really dont understand why the mis-named democracy party doesnt try to appeal to the poor with programs that will actually do something to improve their quality of life and please dont give me the American trickle down rhetoric this is an election. Popular policies are what democracy is all about the majority if you have a problem with that then what you want is not democracy. Thaksin might be many things, but at least he was smart enough to know you had to appease the poor first which at least makes him the first true democrat in Thailand (as begrudged as I am to say that).

The thing that scares me though and I mean really scares me are the very poorly defined changes that Khun Suthep wants. Here is a man who changes his demands and direction on a daily basis, calling himself democratic, but failing to actually put out for public scrutiny the changes he wants to see in Thailand. He has had a phenomenal opportunity given to him in this protest he could have publicised a clear plan forward that would appeal to ALL Thai people (that he assumes he represents) and gone to the election with that and if he really had the peoples support as he claims, then they would have given him the mandate to do as he wishes. But hes done nothing but called civil disobedience (and Im being kind when I say that), in any other country hed be in jail or dead already (which unfortunately speaks more admirably of the caretaker govt). NEVER trust a man who wants you to follow him based only on his hatred of another person.

Thailand if you want a democracy, and I mean a real democracy where all people are considered equal, then voting is the ONLY way forward even if the current system is flawed. Democracy doesnt happen over night; its something the takes time to grow and evolve. You have to play the game to change the rules. You have to learn how to appeal to the people and how to serve their interests rather than your own. The only way forward is to listen to the people and win their hearts. Democracy has NEVER been found in the hands of someone who stopped people from voting using fear, intimidation and violence never. And I hope tomorrow that the people of Thailand are allowed the opportunity to peacefully choose for themselves what they want, instead of being scared off by people forcing them to do what a VERY small minority wants.

Peace.

I don't think you're ignorant, far from it - a rare voice of sanity. But you will doubtless be told you just don't understand Thainess. I would say you haven't been here long enough to be brainwashed, or sozzle your brain. Democracy is not only about elections, of course, but you cannot have democracy without elections. Perhaps some posters would like to go and live in North Korea and see what the people there would say about the idea of voluntarily rejecting the right to vote.

WHo are you lot kidding - a red shirt attempt at giving them credibility from a neutral point of view - you must remember some of us have education beyond the red village green!! AND WE USE IT!!

[casualbiker]

"Thai opposition under fire for election boycott" says the headline. A poor choice of words when ordinary Thai voters are on the receiving end of automatic weapons fire from army issue TAR21 assault rifles.

To be fair. There were 26 Tar 21 rifles lost /stolen during the Red riots in 2010. So who at this time really know what happened and who they were.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[englishoak]

Reaching a bit isnt it bud ?

[kikoman]

The dye is cast, The powers that be must understand the politics of old is gone,The people will not stand by and let the courts, not respect the will of the VAST majority of Thai voters!

Dream on!

I'm sure you meant the die is cast. In response to that, hold your horses.

Cheers!

I meant exactly what I wrote, "The dye is cast" it is common knowledge yellows do not understand what in fact is written!

I have no need to hold anything, my entire family will vote tomorrow, they are among those Thai's that will predict which way the nation will go!

They chose the path of what the Thai constitution and Democracy dictate and will cast their ballot tomorrow and show the protesters and their supporters, who is the silent "Majority' in Thailand as a result of this election!

Cheers

[Thai at Heart]

And there we go again, Danny the Rook(y) comes up with that old and nevertheless useless lore about the Dem's not winning any elections since God created the world...

Can somebody please, please tell him, that - except for two out of the last 20 elections - no party ever won the absolute majority? There have always been coalition governments in Thailand, that is the rule.

He should pay back his salary for writing such crap!

When was the last absolute majority in the UK? You're missing the point here, which is that Thaksin-affiliated parties have rendered coalitions largley unnecessary.To be an effective opposition, the Dems have to stop being intellectually lazy and:

* take advantage of the growing disaffection of the rural poor with PTP and devise policies that promise them a better life (why haven't they already done this?)

* broaden their appeal in the above way and stop relying on the elites and southerners for support - Thailand is not only Bangkok & Hua Hin.

* stop relying on coups (military or judicial) to provide power and consistently use democratic channels to power (not just when convenient)

In this way, they can become emblematic of REAL meaningful democratic values - of course, reforms are necessary to achieve a fair system, reforms which prevent both PTP, Dems and others from abusing politics for thier own benefit (Not only Thaksin but Dems like Suthep have been doing this for years, feathering their own nests).

If the Dems actually did their job as an opposition party then they could deal with Thaksinite parties democratically and, over time, defeat them within the confines of the system of democracy. Thailand would then regain respect from the rest of the world and avoid switching roles with Myanmar.

The system in the uk normally produces a single party majority not a coalition. The current coalition is the first in many decades if not longer.

That's why it tends to produce decisive consistent government, although this current coalition seem to be doing ok.

[Thai at Heart]

I am confused is that not the democratic way to be allowed the right to choose to participate in an election or not?]

.

You certainly are confused.There is a legal obligation on all registered voters in Thailand to cast their votes. They have an option of ticking 'no vote' on the ballot if they don't support any of the parties listed, but they have to turn up. Same in many other countries. Any former Democrat MP who does not cast his vote will be barred from standing for election for a period of five years. Hope that cleared up your confusion.

Exactly. I would think it would be illegal to encourage people not to pitch.

The reason for the law is simple. People could be threatened not to attend on masse from say a factory etc. People should attend, simple.

[wprime]

AFP again!

We all know the "AFP" is financially supported by Thaksin!

I agree they are very pro-Thaksin, but do you have evidence Thaksin is financially supporting them?

[Rooo]

Posts removed.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

[northernjohn]

Dunno. But taking orders from above is how it is done in Yingluck's wonderland. Skype, wouldn't you know, plays a big part in it

And of course Mark isnt advised or taking orders from anyone right ?

The PT cronies, criminals and anyone else have given copious evidence in the past few years that Taksin is the person in charge. Taksin speaks PT carries out his dastardly orders, it is well known and has been admitted to numerous times.

Since you seem to think you know so much, please tell us who you think Abisit has recieved his skyped orders from and kindly back that up with at least 1 legitimate refernce. Or else please stop with the bs and utter tripe you keep spewing here....Thank you.

Abhisit has no main leadership status, he flip flops he is clearly subservient to Suthep and is clearly taking advice no less than your claims on YS ...

So you want some names do you ?

General Prawit Wongsuwan, a former army commander, defense minister and elite Queen's Guard, is the most visible of what some diplomats refer to as an amorphous "council of elders" Other military "elders" reportedly include 2006 coup maker Lieutenant-General Winai Phattiyakul, former National Security chief and known Thaksin nemesis Squadron Leader Prasong Soonsiri, and retired General Saiyud Kerdphol, a former Supreme Commander and father of current army chief of staff Gen Aksra Kerdphol. Then theres good old Prem lets not forget him.

i cant say more of the who because its not allowed on this forum ..Les majeste and all that.

Just my opinion of a few who could be pulling Marks strings some certainly are and all of which have far more power than he. Sorry to upset your day but that is my opinion and I will not keep quiet for the likes of you or your fascist friends shooting at people and trying to block freedom to vote... so get used to it

Do you even bother to reads your posts or other posts.

The question was

"Since you seem to think you know so much, please tell us who you think Abisit has recieved his skyped orders from and kindly back that up with at least 1 legitimate reference"

Instead we get a list of names with no reference to where they have been pulling Mark's strings In fact I believe one of them has joined the PTP. Then to further your rambling you back it up by saying Les majeste (your spelling not mine) won't allow you to add to your nonsensical list.

You even try to claim that the Anti Government people are shooting at them selves.

Sounds to me like any one who will not knell at Thaksin's feet and immediately mindlesly carry out his orders is a menace to democracy in your opinion.

[northernjohn]

I am confused is that not the democratic way to be allowed the right to choose to participate in an election or not?]

.

You certainly are confused.There is a legal obligation on all registered voters in Thailand to cast their votes. They have an option of ticking 'no vote' on the ballot if they don't support any of the parties listed, but they have to turn up. Same in many other countries. Any former Democrat MP who does not cast his vote will be barred from standing for election for a period of five years. Hope that cleared up your confusion.

Exactly. I would think it would be illegal to encourage people not to pitch.

The reason for the law is simple. People could be threatened not to attend on masse from say a factory etc. People should attend, simple.

Yes people should attend. But since when in history have they all attended in any country that is democratic.. It is not illegal to not vote. It will how ever as it sits now prevent them for running for an office for five years.

That is exactly why Yingluck insisted on the vote being taken now while she could still control the government and eliminate the opposition who with integrity refused to bow to her puppetry. They have absolutely no problem in participating in a election that has been reformed and allows a level playing field to the parties with less money than the PTP. Doe's Yingluck have a problem with that well look at her actions. I say why did she not attack the yellow shirts for not voting but she is willing to attack the Democrats

Gee let me see now here. If the yellow shirts had voted she wouldn't have the power she has now. If the Democrats don't vote she has even more power for the next 5 years. So lets jump on them and bury them. She knows that with out reform she has enough money to win the election. So why reform the election process. Just carry it out and take advantage of the integrity the Democrats have.

Sounds like the typical PTP red shirt thing to do. They are just rubbing there hands in glee thinking of the 2.2 trillion baht that they will have free accesses to. Their foreign bank accounts are going to grow by leaps and bounds.

She hasn't the brains to figure it out that this is going to solve nothing just create more problems. She can't call out the army because her own government says if a soldier kills a rebel she is guilty of murder.

[gerry1011]

3 possibilities:

a ) Either Abhisit caved in to the pressure from the Leader,

b ) or it's a diversion and he's going to go in disguise ...

c ) or, he's been tipped off that the somebody will take care of "things" afterwards, such that he will not lose his MP eligibility

Maybe Abhisit just thought that the majority of people would follow Suthep, while in fact it was only a tiny minority.

I hope Abhisit will disappear together with Suthep and his craziest followers, and that the Democrats will finally be able to reform themselves. That is what is needed.

Sent from my iPhone...

[fab4]

gabruce post # 7379676

"There is nothing wrong with an appointed Senate. I think it's arguably superior to an wholly elected Senate. Just compare Canada (appointed Senate) to the USA (elected Senate). Case closed! A 50% elected, 50% appointed Senate would seem to be a reasonable compromise."


The problem lies with the tie in between the Senate and the Judges. Both entities are involved in appointing each other, it's an incestuous process as can be seen below.

The charter, written by a military-appointed assembly after then-premier Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted in a 2006 coup, granted generals amnesty for the takeover, made it easier to dissolve political parties and gave judges a role in picking members of the half-appointed Senate. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-11-20/thai-court-rejects-government-move-to-change-formation-of-senate

74 senators were appointed on 19 February 2008 by a seven-member committee headed by the chief of the Constitutional Court ....................

....................Constitutional Court justices - 3 judges drawn from the Supreme Court, 2 judges drawn from the Administrative Court, and 4 judge candidates selected by the Selective Committee for Judges of the Constitutional Court and confirmed by the Senate

http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/government_profile.html

The Senate also has the power to deny confirmation of the judges before passing on to the King for final approval

In the case where the Senate does not give approval to any names, whether in whole or in part, the Senate shall, together with reasons for disapproval, refer such names back to the Selection Committee for Judges of the Constitutional Court for re-selection.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Thailand_(2007)/Chapter_10

and other Judicial matters?

In the Courts of Justice, all judicial human resource management, such as appointment, promotion, salary increase, change of position, capability development, punishment and removal are all exclusively empowered to the judicial body called the “Judicial Commission” chaired by the President of the Supreme Court, and composed of twelve judges elected from judges in all levels of the Courts of Justice, with the other two commissioners selected by the Senate. http://jrn21.judiciary.gov.ph/forum_icsjr/ICSJR_Thailand%20%20(C%20Likhitjitta).pdf

Sorry about the editing, gabruce, but it was the only way I could fit in the limited number of quotes you are allowed.

Edited February 2, 2014 by fab4

[casualbiker]

Reaching a bit isnt it bud ?

Are you talking to your self!!!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[catmac]

And there we go again, Danny the Rook(y) comes up with that old and nevertheless useless lore about the Dem's not winning any elections since God created the world...

Can somebody please, please tell him, that - except for two out of the last 20 elections - no party ever won the absolute majority? There have always been coalition governments in Thailand, that is the rule.

He should pay back his salary for writing such crap!

Your rant might have more impact if you had been able to show just one election in the last 2 decades where the Dems have either won a majority or been sufficiently powerful enough to gather a winning coalition.

Otherwise, much as you and the other losers might hate it, what Danny wrote is substantially TRUE!

[Siripon]

I am confused is that not the democratic way to be allowed the right to choose to participate in an election or not?]

.

You certainly are confused.There is a legal obligation on all registered voters in Thailand to cast their votes. They have an option of ticking 'no vote' on the ballot if they don't support any of the parties listed, but they have to turn up. Same in many other countries. Any former Democrat MP who does not cast his vote will be barred from standing for election for a period of five years. Hope that cleared up your confusion.

Not if he votes in any election before the next general election, ie the Senate election next month in March, or indeed in a local council election.

Should be no problem for the Dmocrats to stand next time.

And this election will probably be nullified anyway. Total waste of money.

[catmac]

Forgive my ignorance of things Thailand ... I've only lived here 3 years so far .... so please help me understand ...

In Thailand there are clearly more rural poor than all the rich, middle class and fragmented students put together soooo much more. Even with Yinglucks god awful rice scheme losing her considerable votes, there are still more rural poor creating Thailands clear majority. In any election where everyone gets an equal vote, then the way the scales will tip is clearly obvious with or without reform, with or without vote buying, with or without corruption, with or without protests, with or without violence theres only one possible outcome people will support whoever supports the poor.

This is why I really dont understand why the mis-named democracy party doesnt try to appeal to the poor with programs that will actually do something to improve their quality of life and please dont give me the American trickle down rhetoric this is an election. Popular policies are what democracy is all about the majority if you have a problem with that then what you want is not democracy. Thaksin might be many things, but at least he was smart enough to know you had to appease the poor first which at least makes him the first true democrat in Thailand (as begrudged as I am to say that).

The thing that scares me though and I mean really scares me are the very poorly defined changes that Khun Suthep wants. Here is a man who changes his demands and direction on a daily basis, calling himself democratic, but failing to actually put out for public scrutiny the changes he wants to see in Thailand. He has had a phenomenal opportunity given to him in this protest he could have publicised a clear plan forward that would appeal to ALL Thai people (that he assumes he represents) and gone to the election with that and if he really had the peoples support as he claims, then they would have given him the mandate to do as he wishes. But hes done nothing but called civil disobedience (and Im being kind when I say that), in any other country hed be in jail or dead already (which unfortunately speaks more admirably of the caretaker govt). NEVER trust a man who wants you to follow him based only on his hatred of another person.

Thailand if you want a democracy, and I mean a real democracy where all people are considered equal, then voting is the ONLY way forward even if the current system is flawed. Democracy doesnt happen over night; its something the takes time to grow and evolve. You have to play the game to change the rules. You have to learn how to appeal to the people and how to serve their interests rather than your own. The only way forward is to listen to the people and win their hearts. Democracy has NEVER been found in the hands of someone who stopped people from voting using fear, intimidation and violence never. And I hope tomorrow that the people of Thailand are allowed the opportunity to peacefully choose for themselves what they want, instead of being scared off by people forcing them to do what a VERY small minority wants.

Peace.

Damned good post,Mot Leei. Sorry, I've run out of "likes" yet again. True Democracy really does take years to perfect, and you'll never get there following the rabble-rousing hatreds of people like Oswald Mosley, Arthur Scargill or Suthep.

[Siripon]

At least Suthep has a sense of humour- today is 'picnic day' and ' white shirts, no need to bring candles to vote at the polling booths, it's not dark yet'.

Has anyone ever heard Yingluck make an (intentional) joke?