Renewable Energy Options in Thailand

[RPCVguy]

I've been browsing various posts here for the past few years and considering what renewable energy options are suitable for Thailand. I've narrowed these down and wanted to post so as to get some collective considerations. In descending order they seem to be as listed below - but there are bright respondents who will see viable options I missed - or a different sequence.

1. Solar Energy - lots of light, a good supply domestically (http://www.leonics.com/ is one example) but the downside is that while PV solar has raised efficiencies at lower latitudes, it loses efficiency as the panels heat. One idea I saw - but didn't mark as to by whom (sorry) would be to cool the underside of the panels with a water heat exchange unit - extracting the heat as a preheater for laundry, showers, dish washing etc. Great idea to improve efficiency two ways at once.
   
2. Microhydropower system - These "are small hydroelectric power systems of less than 100 kilowatts (kW) used to produce mechanical energy or electricity for farms, ranches, homes, and villages."
   http://energy.gov/eere/energybasics/articles/microhydropower-basics
   

   

   These are much simpler than the river impounding systems being designed for and threatening downstream rice fields/ agriculture along the Mekong River. Many rice fields are already fed by arterial channels the separate upper and lower sections of rivers along spillways. Adding a turbine and generator could augment electric supply to many rural areas... with much of the water channeling already built.
   
3. Geothermal - From the numerous parks I've seen that feature Hot Springs, it seems at least possible to run binary cycle plants off what I see as springs of moderate heat.
   Binary cycle plants use the heat from lower-temperature reservoirs (225°-360°F) to boil a working fluid, which is then vaporized in a heat exchanger and used to power a generator. The water, which never comes into direct contact with the working fluid, is then injected back into the ground to be reheated.
   http://energy.gov/eere/energybasics/articles/geothermal-electricity-production-basics
   
4. Biopower - which is the production of electricity or heat from biomass resources. It returns the CO2 than was sequestered in agricultural / forest growth back to the atmosphere - so it is the least "clean" of the options I've listed... but it beats out open field burning that makes so much soot in the air each dry season.
   http://energy.gov/eere/energybasics/articles/biopower-basics
   
   
   
5. Wind Turbines - Are there any truly good sites in Thailand? The equation for calculating potential power from a turbine is https://d396qusza40orc.cloudfront.net/energy%2Fimages%2FLesson6%2FL6P2G3.jpg
   
   and if consistent winds are slow, then the power isn't there.
   
   I did track back this post and want to share it - it is by Artabus and is correct as I see it.
   http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/334357-thailands-largest-wind-turbine-officially-launched/#entry3304515

"Wind turbines are at best 15% efficient. As for getting excited about 1.75MW, it's nothing. It will barely run the lights at Siam Paragon! Which store I do like, but that's a different matter.
"On the other hand, if every farmer that currently spends 2 months of the year burning the stubble off his fields put it into an Anaerobic Digester, far more energy than this would be generated, as well as fertiliser for the fields - to say nothing of the reduction in atmospheric pollution. In the tropics this is extremely simple to set up and run.
"There are other solutions as well - pv for windows, building design, building use, wave, tidal. A combination of all of these will go some reasonable way towards a reduction in energy consumption, allied to an increase in energy production. And thenn you have to look at transport use and industrial processes if you want to continue to make a difference.
"If the government is serious about renewable energy generation, that's excellent. But they should opt for simple methods that work, not more expensive ones that work but only after a fashion."

Edited February 5, 2014 by RPCVguy

[Morakot]

I've narrowed these down

Great! Are they any more than these five?

Is this is a feasibility study for a home project? If so you might what to post in the DIY forum. Wait for Khun Nam he'll give you the low downs on how it all works, especially if it is supposed to cover your investment cost in a decade or two.

[RPCVguy]

Thanks Morakot,

Not a DIY project - except someday to install an array of solar panels on the son's house next door - to supply both our homes. Put it there because we've a 2-story structure - and his is one-story with a perfect slope along his protected southern line of sight.

I was wandering through various places I've posted, and applying ides I've been reading up on this past month... trying to see what does or does not apply to Thailand. I especially am curious as to the water cooling idea for solar panels... as a way of making them supply closer to their rated efficiencies.

[Sayonarax]

Parabolic dish with a steam engine.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Sayonarax

[SailingHome]

Nice! This is a passionate hobby of mine too. If solar uses visable light, not UV, why not shield the UV to prevent heat?

Let me add:

a) solar refrigeration

evaporative refrigeration

c) fuel cells using abundant hydrogen gases or biogas

d) ...

[liddelljohn]

My 84 year dad has solar for electricity generation and hot water on his house in dim old sussex UK and its been a brilliant investment he spent a total of £11k and has got back his money by savings on gas and electric bills alone in 6 years also a further 5k from selling excess power to the grid , he reckons he has made a return of 9% on his investment which is better than had he kept the money in the bank ,

The Thai government is way behind the curve with this technology and has as yet only considered and promoted it for industry,, the prices on solar equipment are high here as well , and there is at present to system to selling excess power back to the grid but they are looking in to it and with all the 12 hour sunlight it would be a no brainer for reducing power costs and generating needs as well as keeping A/C use going during the day ,,

As usual thailand has vested interest and NIMBY attitudes to clarify before a good idea is run out

I would have it on my house here if the UK system was adopted.

[Seastallion]

Methane digesters used to be promoted, but I have not read anything about them lately. Perhaps because they contribute to environmental CO2? Nonetheless, a family of 6, with a few housed pigs produces enough methane to power a fridge and a stove, plus the overflow is fantastic for the garden.

[mads]

I always wondered why the farmers are burning all the haystacks on their fields instead of collecting it all and burn it in a big furnace and make electricity from all that wasted energy.

I'm sure if you were to pay them just a little bit for their hay they would all come and deliver the hay at the furnace. This way it could be controlled how much was burned and when, reducing the pollution at least a little or is it not plausible?

[belg]

expensive in thailand and gas subsidized, good luck clean renewable in thailand... just look what the busses & trucks spit out

[Muhendis]

Nice! This is a passionate hobby of mine too. If solar uses visable light, not UV, why not shield the UV to prevent heat?

Let me add:

a) solar refrigeration

evaporative refrigeration

c) fuel cells using abundant hydrogen gases or biogas

d) ...

d) Solar cells used to produce hydrogen by electrolysis which is then stored in, a suitable container, for use by a battery of fuel cells. Fuel cells are not yet fully developed in terms of life span but they are getting better. I seem to recall some people in America tried this successfully on an island which had no access to mainland services. It was a very interesting article that went into the pros and cons in quite some depth.

[Boycie]

My 84 year dad has solar for electricity generation and hot water on his house in dim old sussex UK and its been a brilliant investment he spent a total of £11k and has got back his money by savings on gas and electric bills alone in 6 years also a further 5k from selling excess power to the grid , he reckons he has made a return of 9% on his investment which is better than had he kept the money in the bank ,

The Thai government is way behind the curve with this technology and has as yet only considered and promoted it for industry,, the prices on solar equipment are high here as well , and there is at present to system to selling excess power back to the grid but they are looking in to it and with all the 12 hour sunlight it would be a no brainer for reducing power costs and generating needs as well as keeping A/C use going during the day ,,

As usual thailand has vested interest and NIMBY attitudes to clarify before a good idea is run out

I would have it on my house here if the UK system was adopted.

Solar panels better than a pension, says minister UK news story 3rd Feb 2014

[Daniel Boon]

'renewable energy' is a misnomer.

without going into thermodynamics and entropy; the simple formulas to apply are;

ROI - return on investment - which means that the cash you outlay requires a return at the very least equal to the cost.

In reality, using solar power, the LCC (life cycle costs based on even the empirical data of a single fitting of a particular house) that included all the connections, inverter costs (over the life of the longest life which is the PV panels of up to 25 years) and batteries, which usually expire within 7 years ...

ERoEI - the energy return on energy invested - the total energy in the extraction, manufacture and transportation (otherwise known as embodied energy) of all the materials (including disposal) likewise have at least the same energy return ...

None of the previously suggested forms of 'renewable energy' generation have met the requirement of a neutral return, let alone a positive return ...

there is a crowd in Australia calling themselves 'beyond zero emissions' in building... I liken it to a statement 'that the passenger carriages were quiet, energy efficient and non-polluting, with a photo of said carriages but cutting the coal burning, high polluting emissions steam engine out of the picture ...

[Mudcrab]

Cooling the PV panels with water might add some efficiencies to the power generated - but at what cost. The water still needs to be pumped to the panels and either cooled or recycled (more cost) or let run to waste. Of course it could be used to water the garden etc. What sort of heat exchanger (and the cost of building it) would be required for the efficient transfer of heat from the PV to the cooling water.

It sounds like a nice solution but may (probably will) make the overall system less efficient in monetary terms.

Easy solution - buy a block of land near a waterfall and harness the potential energy of the water. Good luck with this one.

[weegee]

Parabolic dish with a steam engine.

I have found after searching the net for ages, that this system is probably the best return for your investment...

Have toyed with the idea and calculated that power from the pole outside your house, is just that bit cheaper in the long run....

If anyone is interested in self made stuff....look up Rocket Stoves on the net.....It's cheap and produces many scenarios to play with. (heat for Steam Engine that can be brought for about $600 USD).

I am interested in fooling around with this stuff, so lets know your ideas...

[weegee]

Methane digesters used to be promoted, but I have not read anything about them lately. Perhaps because they contribute to environmental CO2? Nonetheless, a family of 6, with a few housed pigs produces enough methane to power a fridge and a stove, plus the overflow is fantastic for the garden.

My god....don't tell pigeonjake....he's got pigs flowing out his ears

[timber]

With the cheap electricity I get in Thailand and the cost of energy material I will stick with my buffalo and tread mill.

[wolfmanjack]

You know there is a cooling aspect of geothermal as well as the heating aspect.

In my opinion the cooling aspect is more relevant to thailand especially since it can be used anywhere.

The biggest problem in most thai homes is keeping it cool not keeping it warm.

This idea simply consists of burying pipes at least 2 meters underground and running the other end through the cement floors and walls that get heated by the sun shining on them. The hot water could be ran through a tank used for hot water in an open system or you could have a closed system that would cycle the hot and cold water by itself. This is a cheap way to cool the house reducing or eliminating the need for air conditioning.

[Somtamme]

You know there is a cooling aspect of geothermal as well as the heating aspect. In my opinion the cooling aspect is more relevant to thailand especially since it can be used anywhere..

Totally agree, temperature differential between ground and ambient is greater than air in Thailand, so why not use instead?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[weegee]

You know there is a cooling aspect of geothermal as well as the heating aspect. In my opinion the cooling aspect is more relevant to thailand especially since it can be used anywhere..

Totally agree, temperature differential between ground and ambient is greater than air in Thailand, so why not use instead?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Good...So? what can be done to produce what we need? You name it I will try it....within reason

[MW72]

Cooling the PV panels with water might add some efficiencies to the power generated - but at what cost. The water still needs to be pumped to the panels and either cooled or recycled (more cost) or let run to waste. Of course it could be used to water the garden etc. What sort of heat exchanger (and the cost of building it) would be required for the efficient transfer of heat from the PV to the cooling water.

It sounds like a nice solution but may (probably will) make the overall system less efficient in monetary terms.

Easy solution - buy a block of land near a waterfall and harness the potential energy of the water. Good luck with this one.

Cool the panel with glycol from a sealed system that is pumped in a circuit through the panel then to a coil in a hot water cylinder. This means you get electricity from the panel and cheap hot water also. I know that in Thailand hot water doesn't seem too popular but I'm sure some of you foreigners will have it your houses. Glycol is what is used in solar panels that are used solely for providing hot water. It is a much more efficient conductor of heat than water.

If you were to do this you would need a professional to do this unless you know what you are doing. I worked for a company that started to install solar panels in the highlands of Scotland where the sun isn't the greatest. When commissioning the panels and filling the circuit with glycol we had to cover the panels even on a cloudy day early in the morning or the glycol can immediately vaporise when it hit the panel. That's how efficient they are nowadays.

Geo thermal heat pumps are pretty good also. You don't need to live near hot springs or a geologically active area. There is plenty of heat below our feet.

All of these different renewables are best when fitted into new builds and the owner intends to stay for many years to get a good return on their investment. It always helps when governments provide grants also as the tech is quite expensive but as with all new tech it constantly gets more efficient and as more people invest the price comes down.

I have to clarify that I have no experience of renewables in Thailand so don't know about the suppliers or government policy or selling back excess power to utility companies. I would still say that if you can afford the initial investment then go for it.

[Seastallion]

'renewable energy' is a misnomer.

without going into thermodynamics and entropy; the simple formulas to apply are;

ROI - return on investment - which means that the cash you outlay requires a return at the very least equal to the cost.

In reality, using solar power, the LCC (life cycle costs based on even the empirical data of a single fitting of a particular house) that included all the connections, inverter costs (over the life of the longest life which is the PV panels of up to 25 years) and batteries, which usually expire within 7 years ...

ERoEI - the energy return on energy invested - the total energy in the extraction, manufacture and transportation (otherwise known as embodied energy) of all the materials (including disposal) likewise have at least the same energy return ...

None of the previously suggested forms of 'renewable energy' generation have met the requirement of a neutral return, let alone a positive return ...

there is a crowd in Australia calling themselves 'beyond zero emissions' in building... I liken it to a statement 'that the passenger carriages were quiet, energy efficient and non-polluting, with a photo of said carriages but cutting the coal burning, high polluting emissions steam engine out of the picture ...

Renewable energy is not a misnomer. Solar energy is abundantly renewable. Your ROI analysis has nothing to do with the term. But I am not writing to be a semantics nazi.....your ROI is out of date and misleading too, because modern "grid connect" systems do not use batteries, a big factor in looking at ROI. My mother has made a net circa $600 per year from her grid connected system. For the initial $3000 installation (no batteries), in 5 years she has already recouped 50%. More actually, because had she not installed the system, she would have had over $6000 in power bills in that time.

Her grid connect system feeds the grid directly each day, while she uses the grid directly. Her solar power that she collects is not used by her at all, and there is the difference; No storage required. Since she uses less than she collects, she makes a net profit. The lifespan of the panels, wiring, inverter etc is negligible in this scenario.

[wolfmanjack]

You know there is a cooling aspect of geothermal as well as the heating aspect. In my opinion the cooling aspect is more relevant to thailand especially since it can be used anywhere..

Totally agree, temperature differential between ground and ambient is greater than air in Thailand, so why not use instead?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Good...So? what can be done to produce what we need? You name it I will try it....within reason

There are a couple of ways to use the cool water produced by burying pipes. The best way is to run the other end of the pipes through the cement floors and the cement walls that get exposed to the sun. That will reduce the amount of heat radiated from the cement into your home. This is easiest to accomplish on new built homes.

Another way to use the cool water is to run it through a radiator and have a fan blowing through the radiator into your home. This can be used on existing homes as well as new built homes. Remember though the cool radiator with warm air blowing across it in Thailand will produce a fair amount of condensation so you need to create a drainage system to go along with it. This idea can also be used to warm your home if you live in the north. just run the pipes across you roof to get the hot water and have it run through a radiator with a fan blowing though it into your home.

[wolfmanjack]

Here is information on HVAC that uses the geothermal cooling and heating to run a central air system like most homes in the USA have.

http://energyblog.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/17/10-myths-about-geothermal-heating-and-cooling/

It states that it produces 5 units of heating or cooling for every 1 unit of electricity used for pumps and fans.

[globin]

We have recently completed the install of 10 (900 x 1800 mm) panels, very close to the seaside, for evaluation and performance testing, not mention generating some cash flow. We have gone for a free standing structure that is basically a carport that uses the panels as a roof. This is one way to address the problem of heating as there is significant airflow around the panels. If you install them directly over another roof (tile or tin), it will reduce the airflow cooling. I have no local data to support this, but phase 2 will be 6 panels installed over a tile roof and we will see what difference if any it makes. So far infrared temperature measurements show the underside of the panels to be the same as any shaded area ie: a concrete deck, a lined skillion tile roof. Output performance is close to specification at the peak of the day.

I might add that we have gone to some lengths to cathodically isolate the aluminium panels from the steel structure using nylon washers, stainless fasteners and rubber insertion between the two; this is the seaside.

All the best with your projects.

[Showbags]

Is there such a thing as a solar fridge and if so...are they efficient and viable ?

[SailingHome]

Is there such a thing as a solar fridge and if so...are they efficient and viable ?

Yup. Very simple to build, uses amonia as the fluid. Google it.

[Showbags]

Is there such a thing as a solar fridge and if so...are they efficient and viable ?

Yup. Very simple to build, uses amonia as the fluid. Google it.

Could you do it on a boat ?

[SailingHome]

Is there such a thing as a solar fridge and if so...are they efficient and viable ?

Yup. Very simple to build, uses amonia as the fluid. Google it.

Could you do it on a boat ?

That is my plan sailboat, that is. No need on a diesel.

[wym]

Is there such a thing as a solar fridge and if so...are they efficient and viable ?

LPG/NGV are very common.

[SailingHome]

Is there such a thing as a solar fridge and if so...are they efficient and viable ?

LPG/NGV are very common.

Yes. They burn as flame heating to make the cycle. Those are based off Einstein's patent. They can be converted to solar by focusing the sun, but that is tricky without changing the tubing.