Is 28,000 Fair For Starting Pay?

[james_goku]

i just got a job working in hua hin as a teacher...teaching high school lev kids low lev english. there offering me 28,000 baht as starting pay per month.....is that to low???? or should i be makeing more??

any help would be great. thank you

[busgen]

i just got a job working in hua hin as a teacher...teaching high school lev kids low lev english. there offering me 28,000 baht as starting pay per month.....is that to low???? or should i be makeing more??

any help would be great. thank you

฿ 28,000 is not bad at all. Usually the employers start at ฿ 19,000/20,000. After probation it should go up.

If you want to do some statistics, check out ajarndotcom, compare jobs and offers.

[ProfessorFart]

Sounds fair to me especially as a job somewhere like Hua Hin is a prime location!

[sriracha john]

Toursit Visa Help!

james_goku Posted on: Today, 2006-05-25 10:07:21

i just got my toursit visa back and at the end of the visa it says employment porhibited. my friend that is geting me the job teaching back in thailand says that they can chnage it.

Regardless of salary, I would strongly encourage you to make sure you have your Non-B visa AND work permit PRIOR to commencing the job...

[toptuan]

I'd say the pay is pretty good for teaching at the high school level. I started out at 17,000 B/month at the college level about three years ago.

On the Non-B visa: It's much easier to get in your home country at the Thai embassy. Get the necessary letter from your prospective employer as documentation and present it with other required documents to the Thai embassy in your home country. The fee is usually cheaper there than here, too.

On the Work Permit: It's up to the whim of the local labor dept. Some of them won't issue a permit until you are legally employed and have that actual contract from the employer to present to them. You may have to arrive here and play it by ear to find out what the local office will require of you.

[kenkannif]

Toursit Visa Help!

james_goku Posted on: Today, 2006-05-25 10:07:21

i just got my toursit visa back and at the end of the visa it says employment porhibited. my friend that is geting me the job teaching back in thailand says that they can chnage it.

Regardless of salary, I would strongly encourage you to make sure you have your Non-B visa AND work permit PRIOR to commencing the job...

Well if we all did that the only teachers here would be those at the top international schools and a few other schools. This rarely if ever happens in the real world of teaching here I'm afraid.

[kenkannif]

I'd say the pay is pretty good for teaching at the high school level. I started out at 17,000 B/month at the college level about three years ago.

Where was that as that's a pretty poor wage???

On the Non-B visa: It's much easier to get in your home country at the Thai embassy. Get the necessary letter from your prospective employer as documentation and present it with other required documents to the Thai embassy in your home country. The fee is usually cheaper there than here, too.

Erm other than for some nationalities this isn't entirely true to be honest, although I'd agree most places in the West are easier than a lot of places in Asia (but for example Singapore is easier than NZ etc.) but it really (other than for not wanted nationalities) makes no difference. It would be just as easy for me as a Brit to apply in America or Australia as it would in the UK. Also generally Embassies aren't the best place to apply at.

The fee should be almost the same worldwide....although with currenct fluctuations this isn't always the case....so it again depends on where you're from as to whether it will be cheaper or not (for multiple it's 90 Pounds in the UK, $125 USD in the States and $225 AUSD in Oz).

Also as most people are given the job IN Thailand it seems a bit OTT to fly all the way home when you can go to Singapore or Hong Kong with minimal paperwork, or even Penang or Vientienne (but with a lot, lot more paperwork). Although in this case as it seems he's in the West (would help to know your nationality OP???) probably not a bad idea. Although as his friend says it's possible to convert a proper tourist Visa into a Non-imm B (and I've been pretty reliably informed that it's also doable with a 30 day VOA....although I'd need to confirm this 100%!).

On the Work Permit: It's up to the whim of the local labor dept. Some of them won't issue a permit until you are legally employed and have that actual contract from the employer to present to them. You may have to arrive here and play it by ear to find out what the local office will require of you.

You HAVE to have a contract to get a work permit and you can't be legally employed until you have a work permit so what you're saying doesn't really make any sense mate......generally the delay is caused by the MoE issuing the TL or in the case of Gov. schools giving the thumbs up for you to teach...that leads to the WP....which leads to the Visa extension (generally) which again in turn extends the WP

28,000 is so so.....but it's hard to say what you're 'worth' without knowing your quals or experience etc.???

Also how many hours a day will you be teaching? Days a week? Class sizes? Weeks off a year? Will you have to hang around school even when you're not teaching? Holiday pay??? Who pays for your WP and Visa run etc.? Contract details??? Will you be forced to do summer camps? Work weekends? Do meet and greet the parents? Sports days? Come in even over your holidays to prepare for next term? So much to consider really.

I mean if you're doing 100 hours a week it's pretty terrible, if it's only 10 hours a week it's good.....just quoting a figure isn't really helpful without knowing what you need to put in to actually earn it.

Edited May 25, 2006 by kenkannif

[Neeranam]

QUOTE

Toursit Visa Help!

james_goku Posted on: Today, 2006-05-25 10:07:21

i just got my toursit visa back and at the end of the visa it says employment porhibited. my friend that is geting me the job teaching back in thailand says that they can chnage it.

Regardless of salary, I would strongly encourage you to make sure you have your Non-B visa AND work permit PRIOR to commencing the job... wink.gif

I wouldn't worry at all about working on a tourist visa, I did it for many years.

[penzman]

I was paid 32,000 a month, mind you they expected me to work 6 days a week, from 7 a.m. to 5-6-sometimes 7 p.m., all civic holidays were non-existent, any free time I had while at school was always somehow disrupted in order to help with something that did not concern me, or, I was asked to stand around in the schoolyard so that parents could see that "this is an outstanding school as we have a farang teacher (that we can never somehow manage to keep around for more than a few months)". Preparing lesson plans and any other paperwork had to be done in the evening at home. Let's just say that I have now "retired".

As someone mentioned previously, Non-B visa AND work permit are a priority!

[kenkannif]

^ To be honest I'd disagree. While it's good to be legal I'd personally make sure it's a school I'm going to be happy with first (as they often will do to us) before getting a WP (Non-imm B is kind of a moot point really other than you need it for a WP (or a Non-imm O) still illegal to work on it) as if you then decide to disappear they CAN and possibly WILL make your life difficult.

I know the rules here where we have to say you must have a WP etc. but I'd say in 90% of schools here this will not happen right away (if at all). ...and even when you do have a WP it often doesn't cover you for the location/job duties etc.

Also the MoE's crazy requirements for private language schools (which I'd guess this is) makes it IMPOSSIBLE for them to issue WPs to ALL OF THEIR TEACHERS...this applies to ALL schools from your crap acronym ones....to the BEST language schools there are.

This is the reality of teaching here....get used to it.

[pnustedt]

i just got a job working in hua hin as a teacher...teaching high school lev kids low lev english. there offering me 28,000 baht as starting pay per month.....is that to low???? or should i be makeing more??

any help would be great. thank you

If you're going to try to teach English like you write it you would be way overpaid!

[robitusson]

When the <deleted> will posters stop pointing out peoples typing errors and spelling mistakes as if it matters? 'You've made three typing errors in your post. You're not fit to teach'. Christ, it's tedious.

Edited May 25, 2006 by robitusson

[MarkBKK]

When the <deleted> will posters stop pointing out peoples typing errors and spelling mistakes as if it matters? 'You've made three typing errors in your post. You're not fit to teach'. Christ, it's tedious.

I think you meant ''people's'' instead of ''peoples''.

Oh, and you're right. It is tedious. But not as tedious as having to read posts full of mistakes. Especially from someone who wishes to teach English. We all make little mistakes, but posts that are full of them indicate either a non-native speaker (which is excusable), or someone who simply doesn't care how they communicate.

I found this somewhere. It's true. ''Spelling, grammar, syntax, capitalisation and punctuation, when weak, distract attention from – and often obscure – what you are trying to say.''

Edit: I corrected a misteak in my post.

Edited May 25, 2006 by MarkBKK

[PeaceBlondie]

Three years ago, govt. high schools were paying 25,000 in the provinces to full time English teachers to teach secondary students who had low levels of English. They still are, and in some places, less.

However, 28K is considered a bit low in Bangkok.

If I had been looking for full time work in Hua Hin last month, I'd have accepted 28K, with two years' experience, so I think 28K is okay. But I don't need the money.

Hua Hin isn't cheap if you want to be near the beach. We just checked out the place next door: two bedrooms, two full bathrooms, fully furnished on an upper floor, three balconies with views to die for, overlooking the sea: a measly little 50,000 baht per month.

Good luck, James. They can get you a WP and help you run to somewhere like Malaysia to get a real visa, if they want to.

As to the grammar, etc., I think that posts by English teachers, in this forum about teaching in Thailand, should do their homework.

Signed, pedantically and frantically yours, PB

[penzman]

In any other topic, I would disagree with criticizing someone's spelling but when it comes to teaching... I tend to agree.

No matter what the salary is, you must first ask them to specify clearly WHAT your position will involve and WHEN they expect you to work. I had a contract which was negotiated in person along with my wife. Unfortunately, a few weeks later, this contract wasn't worth the paper it was written on.

[sriracha john]

Toursit Visa Help!

james_goku Posted on: Today, 2006-05-25 10:07:21

i just got my toursit visa back and at the end of the visa it says employment porhibited. my friend that is geting me the job teaching back in thailand says that they can chnage it.

Regardless of salary, I would strongly encourage you to make sure you have your Non-B visa AND work permit PRIOR to commencing the job...

Well if we all did that the only teachers here would be those at the top international schools and a few other schools. This rarely if ever happens in the real world of teaching here I'm afraid.

I guess I can only imagine what it’s like to be in the situation. Personally, I’d find it far too unsettling to go about life here in such a precarious situation… wondering and worrying if I was going to be found out… leery of people discovering my situation… suspicious of others around me. I would think these worries would be further exacerbated by anyone here in a “newbie” status.

I guess I feel I just have far too much to lose to exist under such conditions. What is like to live like that? Or am I wrong? Do people not have these types of concerns? If so, how do they do it? Just discount or deny the risk? Rely on blind luck for their situation to go on indefinitely?

I’m aware that in the past, it was fairly straight forward with not that much risk. But then again, at that time, so were dodgy visa stamping, passports being sent out for stamps, and a host of other common practices that many people did with impunity… but certainly times have changed and nowadays, realistically the only safe way to go is the straight and narrow when it comes to passports, visas, and work permits.

For what it’s worth, I too used to teach, as a volunteer, without a work permit, but I stopped around 2 years ago when I saw the “writing on the wall” and that these practices were no longer being tolerated. I saw that it was putting me in jeopardy due to the changing “climate” within the governmental departments, such as Immigration, Labor, and Education. As detection methods modernize, enforcement abilities improve, and “crackdown” becomes the favorite Thai government word, I’m surprised people continue to practice these detainable and deportable offenses.

I certainly realize that it is extremely difficult to get an employer to process, let alone pay for, all the regulatory necessities, but in the end… it’ll be the teacher that pays the price for not following rules in this situation. Is it all worth it?????

I guess there is actually a whole new thread in all this…probably better suited for the General Forum.

[sriracha john]

QUOTE

Toursit Visa Help!

james_goku Posted on: Today, 2006-05-25 10:07:21

i just got my toursit visa back and at the end of the visa it says employment porhibited. my friend that is geting me the job teaching back in thailand says that they can chnage it.

Regardless of salary, I would strongly encourage you to make sure you have your Non-B visa AND work permit PRIOR to commencing the job... wink.gif

I wouldn't worry at all about working on a tourist visa, I did it for many years.

Many of us did... as well as a whole bunch of various other little "tricks" regarding visas/work permits... but times have changed.

When did you stop doing that? For me, it's been 2 years.

Given the current situation with the regulators ... Would you do it now? Would you still feel the same confidence and security as then?

Edited May 25, 2006 by sriracha john

[Neeranam]

I wouldn't worry at all about working on a tourist visa, I did it for many years.

Many of us did... as well as a whole bunch of various other little "tricks" regarding visas/work permits... but times have changed.

When did you stop doing that? For me, it's been 2 years.

Given the current situation with the regulators ... Would you do it now? Would you still feel the same confidence and security as then?

Good point John. I haven't done it for 5 years. I didn't realise it had changed. Sorry if the info is out of date. I would still do it though, how many teachers have been fined or worse?

[kenkannif]

^ I've heard of one that I'm 100% sure of in 6 years here.

IME it hasn't really changed at all and quite often it's the school that actually 'pays' (in more ways than one) the price for not getting them a WP.

Saying that even those with WPs often work outside of what they're allowed to.

If Immigration wanted to weed these out, it would be everso easy to do so....they don't really as we're not taking away from the Thais and it's a service that is wanted and needed (there is a pretty big shortage of teachers currently).

[sriracha john]

It's happened here in a situation where a disgruntled parent made a complaint to the authorities...

"The teacher must be bad because my son isn't fluent in English after 10 lessons".. .. followed by "If the teacher is bad, he's probably illegal." The language school, as expected, left the teacher out to hang in the wind... and poof... he was gone. Admittedly, I don't know his disposition, but then.. I imagine if they go to the trouble of snagging him, they didn't just let him go on about his business elsewhere in Thailand.

If such flimsy reasons can cause someone to be found out... which is sort of like an overstayer getting snagged during a routine roadside police check... I am glad I do not have to live under such stress.

While there's been no concerted national effort to put a stop to the practice at present... neither has there been one with overstayers... yet, when found out (due to whatever reason there is), the authorities will act in either situation.

I wouldn't be nearly as comfortable as I am here if I had to worry about the repercussions of working undocumented.

As there seems to be a fondness for "crackdowns" here, I wouldn't wish to become part of that all-too-common-knee-jerk reaction.

I'm particularly concerned for newbie teachers... as a veteran, wise to the ways of the ins and outs of Thailand, would stand a better chance of escaping detection.

I suppose just like overstaying, it's best to hang out low on the radar screen..

Edited May 26, 2006 by sriracha john

[ProfessorFart]

Many of us did... as well as a whole bunch of various other little "tricks" regarding visas/work permits... but times have changed.

I couldn't agree more. There was a time when you could turn up at a school after seeing an ad in a Guesthouse on KSrd or SND, teach, shove the money in your pocket and walk away. Those Golden days where a couple of weeks 'chalk chasing' in BKK could fund a month in Samui are long distant.

Anyone working without the right documents in this day and age is not only risking deportation and/or jail but also the dreaded black mark in their passports. This is stressed in virtually every work related thread on this site.

OK, Kenkannif, it may not happen bit it COULD happen. Would you risk it?

I'm sure all of those 'boiler room' boys a few years back thought they were untouchable before the Police came down on them! (in fact, by the way they used to think they owned the place I'm sure they did!)

If you are willing to risk someone's liberty with your advice, thats up to you, but I would think about the consequences of your advice in the future especially if the Police decide that illegal teachers are going to be the next target of their next clampdown.

With an election coming up thats not beyond the realms of probability don't you think?

[markuk]

i just got a job working in hua hin as a teacher...teaching high school lev kids low lev english. there offering me 28,000 baht as starting pay per month.....is that to low???? or should i be makeing more??

any help would be great. thank you

what is makeing??

[kenkannif]

OK, Kenkannif, it may not happen bit it COULD happen. Would you risk it?

That has always been the case....it could have happened a year ago, it could have happened 5 years ago...it could happen tomorrow. I'm just saying it's not really happening now.

Well yes I suppose I would risk it to be honest......as a teacher here you often don't really have a choice....so there's really no other option.

I'm sure all of those 'boiler room' boys a few years back thought they were untouchable before the Police came down on them! (in fact, by the way they used to think they owned the place I'm sure they did!)

Kind of different to be fair mate.

If you are willing to risk someone's liberty with your advice, thats up to you, but I would think about the consequences of your advice in the future especially if the Police decide that illegal teachers are going to be the next target of their next clampdown.

I'm not advising anything mate...I'm just saying that's the way it is. Yes, things could change tomorrow....they could pretty much arrest/deport most teachers that work for agencies or private language schools as most of the time their WPs don't cover them to teach off location.

Also I'd have thought it was more of an Immigration thing than the police per se???

For sure though if the police do decide to do this it will be heard about pretty sharpish.

With an election coming up thats not beyond the realms of probability don't you think?

If you're asking me if I think it will happen....no I don't think it will....but anything is possible. They might just decide they don't want any foreigners here and turf us all out...who knows!

[kenkannif]

Okay I would say if the OP has ANY concerns about working illegally here DO NOT COME as you WILL at some point.

That's about the best you can say isn't it???

[PeaceBlondie]

Let's distinguish, please, among all the different kinds of foreigners who teach English in Thailand, by their degree of legality.

First, you have those very few professional educators from the West who are fully qualified with degrees in their academic subject, full certification back home, etc. They get it all, including salaries of over 100,000 baht per month at international schools. Good on them; they're more legal than the acting caretaker substitute prime minister.

Then, there are many teachers like me, who come to Thailand with a real bachelor's degree (but not in education or English), a one-year B work visa, and they immediately take a full TEFL course. They're eager to work, but as novices, they're not going to get a work permit until after their 3-month probation. It's not going to happen, over 90% of the time; so there's 4 to 5 months they're working illegal. In my case, it was 24 months.

Then you have 'teachers' without a degree, without a work visa, and without a work permit - thousands of them! Do you think the laws of supply and demand work equitably in Thailand? No, there isn't enough supply of proper teachers, but there's plenty of improperly or unqulalified teachers. Thousands of schools across Thailand, including private language schools and government schools, hire these folks, and never get them proper paperwork. It happens almost everywhere, even at schools that are a fine place to work (as all 3 of my schools were).

Time after time, new TEFL teachers ask us if they should stay in Thailand (or migrate here) when we know full well that they'll be illegal for years, maybe forever. If we convinced them all to stay home, there would be very few teachers of EFL, and the education in system in LOS would not adjust itself and start paying high enough wages to get better qualified, legal teachers. Would not.

This discussion fits right into the current debate in the USA about undocumented, illegal alien workers. I could write a book, "I was a farang wetback!!"

[sriracha john]

I certainly don't wish to sound like I condone how the government operates. I don't. Not by a long shot. In my own situation, it was ludicrous how things worked. A public school had a dire need, I was willing to fulfill that need for no salary, but yet, due to government regulators, the two of us were unable to fulfill our mutual needs to each other’s mutual benefit… which is an insane situation.

I was fortunate in my predicament in that I had the option to simply stop. I know people that are teaching for an income don’t have that luxury, but I do worry, though, that many teachers, particularly new ones arriving, are under some impression that it's totally risk-free to work without proper documentation... and in these times, I feel that it's not.

I see their situation as quite precarious... subject to the whims of chance (such as being ratted on by an unjustified, but yet dissatisfied parent, as per the example above) or the manipulations of a school administration who can hold the documentation over a teacher's head over some trivial issue, as I've seen done with others.

I know the teacher is caught in the middle. Wanting to be legal, but yet working in an environment that puts every hurdle imaginable in his/her way... and in the end, not having that all important documentation.

I suppose the best that can be offered is somewhat similar to what

kenkannif offered... and that is a warning of the reality.

If people STILL decide that coming here to work is worth the risk... then that's up to them. They've made an informed decision at least. I see so many schools not being up front when they solicit teachers, making promises of visas/work permits…with full intent to never fulfill those promises.

Now, once a teacher is informed and chooses to perform undocumented work and not comply with all the legalities, then that will be up to them, but at least they will not be under some misguided belief that it's entirely ok. This is, once again, quite akin to the overstayer’s decision-making process.

I appreciate the contributors to this thread... it's been a neglected subject and I think sharing our thoughts and experiences is important.

[MarkBKK]

... degree of legality.

Sorry, is that the same as ''degree of virginity''?

[Lormaak]

Pretty much any teacher here has to work illegally at some time. As anyone who has taught here for more than five minutes knows, staff turnover is very high and the wages are pretty crap. Therefore, schools want immediate starts.

Even if you turn up readily armed with a Non Imm B, it still takes the MOE 20-40 days to issue the licence, which you need before the WP. And even then, the WP is very specific as to the location and hours* you are allowed to work, and the age group you are allowed to teach. So, anything outside of these is technically illegal anyway

* It may be the TL that has the working hours on it. I can't remember.

The only guy I know to have been done for no WP brought it upon himself. He got drunk, had a fight, and when the police showed up, he was rude to them. He also made a point of telling them that he was a teacher at such and such school. When they checked him out, they saw he was illegal and busted him. Som Nom Na.

[Lormaak]

As to the question of fair pay, I always think age has a big factor to play.

If I were 22 or younger and was offered 28 000 per month, I would think it okay. I could still live the student life, and wouldn't have many outgoings. If I were 32 and had to work for 28 000, I would consider myself a failure, and if I were 42... well, think about it.

[otherstuff1957]

Getting back to the OP, 28K isn't bad for a starting salary, depending on your hours, class size, working conditions, qualifications, etc... My qualifications are about the same as PB's - real degree, though not in English or Ed., a TEFL Certifcate and some vaguely related experience. I started working here at 30K a month, teaching 18 hours a week at a government school. It took me almost a year to get my work permit though!