UK fiance Visa Employment help regarding Ltd company.

[el2004]

Hi,

Just looking for a bit of help and advice regarding my situation and how i can go forward with it.

Ive read the UKBA guidance etc.

Background info,

been in a relationship with a thai lady 3.5 years or so. She lives in Thailand, i have been over numerous times, we have applied for successfully 3 UK visitor Visas on which she has travelled her 6 times 2 visits per visa 3 to 4 week stays per time. On her last visit (Jan 14) I decided enough was enough our relationship was good feel its time for us to settle down etc. Tired of the hassle of visas travel expenses time apart etc so i popped the question she said yes, and thought lets start our life together properly.

We spoke about the marriage and have agreed that we will marry in the UK a very small wedding ceremony nothing big, and then save to have a proper wedding ceremony in thailand in a couple of years, at our own time our own pace so we dont rush it all for the visa. Im not a big wedding guy so im happy to have a quick wedding in the uk with no fuss and the ceremony side of weddings is definately more my Gf's thing so we decided the fiance visa was the right route so we can be legally wed in UK and then celebrate in Thailand at our leisure basically.

I know whats required etc. Accomodation no problem, proof of relationship no problem, i dont anticipate any problems with anything on our application apart from the financial requirement evidence.

I just cant get my head around it, so if i havent bored you already here goes.

Ive been self employed in a partnership with my Dad for last 5 years. Have all evidence for the end of years, SA etc. But April 13 we incorp the business to a Ltd company, and both of us becoming directors. Started trading in the LTD company since July 13, so since then ive been employed, but from what i can make out, for Visa application, im still classed as self employed??

So what options do I have? I earn above the required amounts, but since July this has been salary and dividends as you could have probably imagined, but the guidance says evidence required for the last Full financial year. Being April 13 which I have a Self Assesment evidence etc tax paid tax owed that they want is easy to provide. But obviously Class 2 contributions stopped in July (to show continuing Self employment)

Would I need to wait for the Company year end to be done, but I believe the accountant does this 9 or 12 months end of financial year,

hope this sort of makes sense and hope someone can throw some light on situation to advice best way to go with this for me, we want to proceed quite soon with the application, my GF has already took and passed the Language test, so bar the TB test and document gathering and form filling there isnt much stopping us at moment.

Many thanks for reading my drivel, and hope someone can help,

Cheers

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You will, I think, now have to apply as a director of a limited company, and this means that you cannot apply until you have submitted a full financial year's self-assessment. Your financial year is based on your company year ( that is the 12 month period after incorporating the company). To be honest, I have never come across a situation like yours, where you are really the same business that, presumanbly, went from sole trader to limited company ? You might want to put the question to UKVI to see if you could qualify in some way. Otherwise, all of this applies to you :

Director of a specified limited company in the UK – specified evidence

9.8.1.

The evidence required to demonstrate income as a director of a specified limited company in the UK is specified in Appendix FM-SE:

9. In respect of income from employment and/or shares in a limited company based in the UK of a type specified in paragraph 9(a), the requirements of paragraph 9(-(d) shall apply in place of the requirements of paragraphs 2 and 10(b)3:

(a) The specified type of limited company is one in which:

(i) the person is a director of the company (or another company within the same group); and

(ii) shares are held (directly or indirectly) by the person, their partner or the following family members of the person or their partner: parent, grandparent, child, stepchild, grandchild, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece or first cousin; and

(iii) any remaining shares are held (directly or indirectly) by fewer than five other persons.

(c ) All of the following must be provided:

(i) Company Tax Return CT600 (a copy or print-out) for the last full financial year and evidence this has been filed with HMRC, such as electronic or written acknowledgment from HMRC.

(ii) Evidence of registration with the Registrar of Companies at Companies House.

(iii) If the company is required to produce annual audited accounts, the latest such accounts.

(iv) If company is not required to produce annual audited accounts, the latest unaudited accounts and an accountant’s certificate of confirmation, from an accountant who is a member of a UK Recognised Supervisory Body (as defined in the Companies Act 2006);

(v) Corporate/business bank statements covering the same 12-month period as Company Tax Return CT600.

(vi) A current Appointment Report from Companies House.

(vii) One of the following documents must also be provided:

(1) A certificate of VAT registration and the latest VAT return (a copy or a print-out) confirming the VAT registration number, if turnover is in excess of £73,000.

(2) Proof of ownership or lease of business premises.

(3) Original proof of registration with HMRC as an employer for the purposes of PAYE and National Insurance, proof of PAYE reference number and Accounts Office reference number. This evidence may be in the form of a certified copy of the documentation issued by HMRC.

© Where the person is listed as a director of the company and receives a salary from the company, all of the following documents must also be provided:

(i) payslips and P60 (if issued) covering the same period as the Company Tax Return CT600.

(ii) Personal bank statements covering the same 12-month period as the Company Tax Return CT600 showing that the salary as a director was paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly.

(d)Where the person receives dividends from the company, all of the following documents must also be provided:

(i) Dividend vouchers for all dividends declared in favour of the person during or in respect of the period covered by the Company Tax Return CT600 showing the company’s and the person’s details with the person’s net dividend amount and tax credit.

(ii) Personal bank statement(s) showing that those dividends were paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly. .

Tony M

Edited February 27, 2014 by ThaiVisaExpress

[el2004]

You will, I think, now have to apply as a director of a limited company, and this means that you cannot apply until you have submitted a full financial year's self-assessment. Your financial year is based on your company year ( that is the 12 month period after incorporating the company). To be honest, I have never come across a situation like yours, where you are really the same business that, presumanbly, went from sole trader to limited company ? You might want to put the question to UKVI to see if you could qualify in some way. Otherwise, all of this applies to you :

Director of a specified limited company in the UK – specified evidence

9.8.1.

The evidence required to demonstrate income as a director of a specified limited company in the UK is specified in Appendix FM-SE:

9. In respect of income from employment and/or shares in a limited company based in the UK of a type specified in paragraph 9(a), the requirements of paragraph 9(-(d) shall apply in place of the requirements of paragraphs 2 and 10(b)3:

(a) The specified type of limited company is one in which:

(i) the person is a director of the company (or another company within the same group); and

(ii) shares are held (directly or indirectly) by the person, their partner or the following family members of the person or their partner: parent, grandparent, child, stepchild, grandchild, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece or first cousin; and

(iii) any remaining shares are held (directly or indirectly) by fewer than five other persons.

(c ) All of the following must be provided:

(i) Company Tax Return CT600 (a copy or print-out) for the last full financial year and evidence this has been filed with HMRC, such as electronic or written acknowledgment from HMRC.

(ii) Evidence of registration with the Registrar of Companies at Companies House.

(iii) If the company is required to produce annual audited accounts, the latest such accounts.

(iv) If company is not required to produce annual audited accounts, the latest unaudited accounts and an accountant’s certificate of confirmation, from an accountant who is a member of a UK Recognised Supervisory Body (as defined in the Companies Act 2006);

(v) Corporate/business bank statements covering the same 12-month period as Company Tax Return CT600.

(vi) A current Appointment Report from Companies House.

(vii) One of the following documents must also be provided:

(1) A certificate of VAT registration and the latest VAT return (a copy or a print-out) confirming the VAT registration number, if turnover is in excess of £73,000.

(2) Proof of ownership or lease of business premises.

(3) Original proof of registration with HMRC as an employer for the purposes of PAYE and National Insurance, proof of PAYE reference number and Accounts Office reference number. This evidence may be in the form of a certified copy of the documentation issued by HMRC.

© Where the person is listed as a director of the company and receives a salary from the company, all of the following documents must also be provided:

(i) payslips and P60 (if issued) covering the same period as the Company Tax Return CT600.

(ii) Personal bank statements covering the same 12-month period as the Company Tax Return CT600 showing that the salary as a director was paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly.

(d)Where the person receives dividends from the company, all of the following documents must also be provided:

(i) Dividend vouchers for all dividends declared in favour of the person during or in respect of the period covered by the Company Tax Return CT600 showing the company’s and the person’s details with the person’s net dividend amount and tax credit.

(ii) Personal bank statement(s) showing that those dividends were paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly. .

Tony M

Thats exactly what it is, our partnership, sole traders, incorped the business in April 13 and began trading as such from it Jul 13.

So from April 13 to Jul I was still earning as a sole trader so to speak and from July was earning as director with salary and Dividends. Our end of year for the LTD company, is end of April this year, so from then I can get the accountant do the Company Tax return ASAP and then apply from then basically? I will meet the requirements of 18600 from my earnings from July 13 to April 14. Most of the documents you list I could get together now, apart from obviously the CT600 and the bank statements for the full year.

Would you recommend waiting till end of April get my accountant to get the CT600 sorted, and just submit application obviously showing tax owing as there will be 9 months to pay it, and dont want to pay that early really.

Thanks for help

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I'm not sure that you can do it at the end of April. The rules are specific when they say you must submit a CT600 for the last full financial year, and July to April is not a full financial year. Surely a full financial year must have 12 months ? I think your financial year is July - June, that is the company tax year. This is something you should check with HMRC, or you risk losing your visa fee ( which will be around 890 GBP from April).

Tony M

[el2004]

I'm not sure that you can do it at the end of April. The rules are specific when they say you must submit a CT600 for the last full financial year, and July to April is not a full financial year. Surely a full financial year must have 12 months ? I think your financial year is July - June, that is the company tax year. This is something you should check with HMRC, or you risk losing your visa fee ( which will be around 890 GBP from April).

Tony M

I will check with the accountant when i see him next, but as far as i understand, a CT return cant be for more then 12 months. So because this is our first year, our date given by HMRC is 30th April, so our CT will have to be done from 08042013 (incorp date) to 07042014, and then another one for that one month upto the 30th April 2014. That will then have the dates in line for all future returns being a full financial year of 1st May till 30th April.

Im pretty sure this is how the return will be, so my first return would be from 08042013 to 07042014. Would this be enough to satisfy the Visa application, (of course the trading didnt start untill July) but the return will still have to include from April to April. So I will have a full financial year CT600.

From a tax point of view, I will owe C tax for that return, and also some Self assement tax from that April to July period (i leave this bit to the accountant to sort out) but will the tax owing from the return go against the application. ? If not I could apply as early as April 7th, (once acocuntant sorts out CT600 ) and SA's etc.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I'm still not sure about the "financial year". I say this because the guidance says this :

9.3. Self-employment or Director of a specified limited company in the UK – general requirements

9.3.1. For those self-employed as a sole trader, as a partner or in a franchise, the relevant financial year(s) will be that covered by the self-assessment tax return and in the UK this runs from 6 April to 5 April the following year. Where the applicant is relying on their partner‟s income from self-employment overseas, the relevant financial year(s) will reflect the requirements of the taxation system of that country.

9.3.2. For those employed as a director of a specified limited company in the UK, the relevant financial year(s) will be that covered by the Company Tax Return CT600 and corresponds to the 12-month accounting year of the company.

9.3.3. The evidence submitted must cover the relevant financial year(s) most recently ended.

9.3.4. If a person has different financial years, e.g. because they are both self-employed and a director of a specified limited company, their income from the self-assessment tax return and Company Tax Return financial years cannot be combined to meet the financial requirement. Including income from differently based financial years would not be a fair or accurate way of calculating a person‟s annual income.

[el2004]

I'm still not sure about the "financial year". I say this because the guidance says this :

9.3. Self-employment or Director of a specified limited company in the UK – general requirements

9.3.1. For those self-employed as a sole trader, as a partner or in a franchise, the relevant financial year(s) will be that covered by the self-assessment tax return and in the UK this runs from 6 April to 5 April the following year. Where the applicant is relying on their partner‟s income from self-employment overseas, the relevant financial year(s) will reflect the requirements of the taxation system of that country.

9.3.2. For those employed as a director of a specified limited company in the UK, the relevant financial year(s) will be that covered by the Company Tax Return CT600 and corresponds to the 12-month accounting year of the company.

9.3.3. The evidence submitted must cover the relevant financial year(s) most recently ended.

9.3.4. If a person has different financial years, e.g. because they are both self-employed and a director of a specified limited company, their income from the self-assessment tax return and Company Tax Return financial years cannot be combined to meet the financial requirement. Including income from differently based financial years would not be a fair or accurate way of calculating a person‟s annual income.

Our year end date is definately 30 april that was given by hmrc.

The business started on 8th april so this year im sure we will actually have to submit 2 CT600 to cover the 12 months plus 21 or so days.. From then on it will be a full financial year. Ive i applied for a settlement visa next year it will be a straight CT600 from 1st May 14 to 30th April. So only one needed.

But dont really want to do it next year. Im sure infact maybe illegal?? to submit a CT for over 12 months so im sure what I have wrote above is right.

Just not sure how it stands regarding the application. They will have a full financial years for the company tax return. Or submit the 2 returns.? I think what they want is kind of straight forward, its just my timings with this causing the problem, if we decided to do this last year. I would have had full set of accounts for self employment. If we do end of april next year it will have CT600.

Its just they require the appointment form which states the incorp date of 8th april but account date till 30th april. So surely submitting the 2 would satisfy UKBA? As they need the appointment form aswell so the dates being different will be on there. And i guess every LTD company has had to do this at its first year of trading as the account date has to be end of the month.?

[stuartsko]

I'm in a similar predicament, I'm a director of a ltd company that's family owned with my mother as an other director... I'm just going to resign as a director whilst still being employed with a wage in excess of the requirement... I can still be in full control of the company... Take my wife back on a 6 month family visit visa then re apply for the spouse visa after 6 months employment in my new post.... It only applies if your a director, even if you still owned any share...

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[el2004]

I'm in a similar predicament, I'm a director of a ltd company that's family owned with my mother as an other director... I'm just going to resign as a director whilst still being employed with a wage in excess of the requirement... I can still be in full control of the company... Take my wife back on a 6 month family visit visa then re apply for the spouse visa after 6 months employment in my new post.... It only applies if your a director, even if you still owned any share...

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Its a right pain, as a director of a ltd company I feel like a 2nd class citizen in all this. Just really cant understand why they need so much paperwork when at the end of the day if it is approved my GF's passport will have stamped on it no recourse to public funds.

Been reading your posts, and noticed you are in a similar situation, my business is a lot smaller and it only me and my old man, so it easier to get paperwork without interference of other shareholders etc. Have you applied and been rejected then? on what grounds?

[stuartsko]

I used a bad agent so withdrawn application and going to re apply.. If you struggle with you dates you can back date a withdrawal as a director, I only have to wait 1 more month and I can re apply... Being a director is a formality anyway, doesn't make any difference if you trust your dad... Just have to make sure you earn over 18.6k as PAYE... Saying that it's more likely to be lowered over the coming weeks due to the ukba high court appeal... Hope you get sorted though, it's all pure bull s@&t...

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[el2004]

I havent im only drawing minimum wage + dividends at moment. Which is over required amount. Cant do anything till end of this month anyway which is year end. Just thinking about getting an agent for it all really. Should have just been a employee for a 6 months until this was all out of the way. Im sure we both qualify its just jumping through so many hoops to prove it its unreal. Most people I speak to have no idea what goes on. My old man couldnt believe all this he a little bit old fashioned but he just couldnt grasp if she was from eu she could come over straight away but because from outside the eu I have to show all these documents about it. He just couldn't believe it

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[stuartsko]

Thai visa express are spot on, went to see them Monday... Gonna get them to do a 6 month visit, and then spouse visa when I'm back... Sent you a pm of who to stay well away from.. Stu

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[el2004]

Just wanted to bump this to maybe see if anyone else had similar experiences with this, as looking to submit now once accounts done with the accountant