Is a Work Permit Needed to Operate a Bed and Breakfast?

[dotpoom]

Why not just keep it simple. Your 2nd. question asked the position regarding renting a condo. If you have a condo and wish to rent it, why not just give it to a rental agent and let them take care of it.

[Tiffer]

How could anybody possibly believe that they wouldn't need a permit.

Edited March 12, 2014 by ubonjoe
Removed a inflammatory comment

[korythompson]

Wow, I read this entire post, and I found it interesting, redundant, almost stupid, and possibly important. Let me quantify each perception:

Interesting: Because I have never even once worried or pondered so much about so little in my entire life. Such that, it made me wonder if somehow I was missing out--hence my interest was piqued.

Redundant: I felt like the same question was asked repeatedly, but with a different example. Although, the person who clarified things by indicating work for pay is different than work benefit--although according to the law, pay or benefit constitute work--and it seems the law was very clear as to include "benefit" (perceived or otherwise)... Hence why I claim redundancy here; I think based on how the law is written (translated in English) ANY thing in Thailand could be construed as WORK. Picking your nose, for example, wiping your butt (as already mentioned). So, in short, if you want to TRY to find a law in Thailand that covers this topic, you found it. And essentially, if you are dumb enough, you should apply for a work permit to pick your nose, or anything else you do--breathing even. After all, it takes effort to breathe, and you do so with a perceived benefit, or unperceived, as it is autonomic and you don't really think about it, as you breathe in and out.

Almost Stupid: I think the most recent comment made by myself answers the "almost stupid"--no, let me change that to UTTERLY STUPID. In short, live in Thailand, plan to embrace the ridiculous and retarded. And yes, I came here to get away from RULES and stupid LAWS. Sadly, this post has proven to me without doubt, that Thailand is anything but EVEN MORE STUPID LAWS. But here is what I have noticed in the short time I have been here: A LOT of "THINGS" go un-noticed, are done under the radar, and NOBODY freaking cares. I mean, pissing in the street. That is not something you would normally do in the US. But here in Thailand, it happens all the time. Prostitution, child porn (I have never seen or sought it, but I have heard the US criticize Thailand for its lack of concern or laws preventing it), and a ton of other 3rd world tolerances that I don't have time to list. So from my limited perspective, I think you do enter the arena of SPLITTING HAIRS when you even ask such a question "in Thailand".

I suppose you asked, because you want to know. I think you got a very clear answer. I think you proved that you can't do anything in Thailand, including pick your nose, without a work permit--ACCORDING TO THE LAW. On the other hand, now that it is crystal clear, I think YOU, like every other NORMAL person on the planet, will rent your condo without a work permit, EVEN THOUGH YOU NOW KNOW IT'S AGAINST THE LAW... along with picking your nose, ass wiping and breathing--and no, I am not being ridiculous here--it's according to the Thai Law. Thai law is the one who is being ridiculous--I am just applying what was written in that Thai document.

Possibly Important: Note I said, "possibly". Why? Because to be honest, though I read the posts with utter irritation that the question had even been asked, it occurred to me while reading that it COULD BE BENEFICIAL TO KNOW THE BOTTOM LINE. And while I admit, that learning I needed a work permit to breath, was well, a bit disconcerting, I remembered that though it may be illegal to wipe my own ass, or breathe, it really more than anything else comes down to enforcement of said law. It is "probably" illegally to piss in the street. Yet, Millions do it everyday, so that falls into the category of, "illegal, but not enforced."

Like several posters said, don't piss anyone off, and "unenforced laws" will probably remain "unenforced". Piss someone off, and well, sadly that law is there and it probably WILL be used against you, and in the end, you won't even be able to breathe without be cuffed and sent to the clinker.

Do I think that will actually happen? Yes, it already has. Probably not for breathing, but for pissing in the street, not having a work permit while cutting your own grass, and painting your garage. Why do I think this is true? Because the more I learn about Thailand, the less I believe it is the land of smiles. And if there are a ton of smiles, it does not mean the smiles are always authentic. So many have told me, watch the Thais, they smile to your face, then they stab you from behind. Do I think that's true? Probably. Not because I think Thai's are bad, but because Thai's are people. And people, from what I have seen, are pretty sad, "some" of the time.

So, now that we all know we break the law when we breathe, we had better go get a work permit.

Yeah right! I will keep pissing in the street and breathing without one--along with renting out my condo.

Seriously! Get real.

Oh, and one more point that just occurred to me. Why would anyone write ANY law so ambivalently? Answer: So they can have it both ways--which I hate.

So what do you do in such case? Either get out, or don't rock the boat, by asking such questions in the first place. I think it's common sense--you are in Thailand, you are never going to have clear rules--and why would you want that? That's why you are here in the first place, to get away from RULES.

I think I was irritated because though I was curious too, which was the part that interested me, in the end after a full circle was made, I was reminded that I am not here for the rules, but for the freedoms.

And if I stir the sh?t as one poster suggested, it begs the question, "What are you doing here if you need such a question to be answered in the first place?"

It sounds like you are like me, you want to be in the know, and you want clarity. "Uh, excuse me, you are in Thailand--what were you thinking?"

Edited March 12, 2014 by korythompson

[gdringjr]

OK, I've got three veteran posters telling me that a work permit is needed. Thank you very much.

In a somewhat different scenario: I am the owner of a condo which I would like to rent to others. In order to rent my condo I have to post advertisements, respond to emails and calls, show the condo, collect rents, make or direct repairs and improvements, manage evictions, etc. This certainly sounds like work l but I know at least a dozen expats who have bought condos and then perform this work without the benefit of a work permit.

Is a work permit needed if one buys and then rents or leases his/her condo? Would you HAVE to hire a management company to perform the management of the rental property to be within the law? If you did have to hire a management company, are the acts of of hiring and then working with your management company considered "work"?

Thanks!

Hey, please wake up. This is Thailand. Don't ask all those questions based on your western values. You know all the answers already but you are trying to stir the xx. ...

OK. Can you please email me a set of non-western values? Then I can ask my questions based upon whatever values you send me. That would be helpful. Thanks so much.

[Shaunduhpostman]

Would make a fun and entertaining documentary, starring Michael Palin and John Cleese, on filing for a work permit in Thailand for the legal right to use ones physical strength to perform such paid or unpaid activities as rolling over in ones sleep, opening ones eyes in the morning and getting out of bed, and using ones knowledge to find one's way to the toilet in one's own domecile and using ones knowledge of the nature of water to avoid drowning in the bath tub.

[FredNL]

Without a working permit, the only things you can do are:

- Sit, shut up, have a drink, go take a piss and whipe off your own .

Next to this:

- You are not even allowed to talk, to your guests, welcome them or give them some advice.-

- You may not order your staff.

- You may not receive any money or invoicing your guests.

- You may not do any bookkeeping, transfer any money, pay bills and whatsoever.

- You may not serve any breakfast.

- You may not serve any drinks, food or what so ever.

- You may not service any rooms.

- You may not touch any money coming in.

- You may not do any work that a Thai could do.

- You may not answer any calls

- You may not do any translations.

- You may not do any repairs.

- You may not reply or accept any complains

- Should I go on for an other page ???

Just sit and relax, let your Thai staff take care of it.

Whatever a Thai can do, you can NOT

The fine for this is:

30,000 THB fine, jailterm up to 5 years and deportation (on own expenses) of the foreigner

120,000 THB fine for the company involved. If the company is not a Thai limited with at least a company deposit of 2,000,000.- THB, then owners/shareholders will be sentenced to a jailterm up to 5 years.

I know some cases !!! Even cases that the owners were arrested, fined and deported for making their own breakfast or just being in the kitchen getting something.

PS. There is a reward (40,000 THB) for snitching on overstays and/or violation of working permit rules.. So if you want to get rid of any competition

Edited March 12, 2014 by FredNL

[HerbalEd]

If you work in Thailand for money then you legally need a work permit. But, I assume you knew that already.

[Artisi]

Of course one other important point, is the running of or managing a condo B&B an allowed job for non-Thai's. the list of allowable employment for foreigners is very limited. Needs checking initially even before worrying about work-permits etc.

[Ace of Pop]

Do all the Farming Ferangs here have a Work Permit,they have Section here dedicated to Farming,and talk business. No difference to B&B IMO.

[Greg Nixon]

I went to Thai immigration and asked them if it was OK to repair and maintain my Thai wife's property. They said it was OK in a rather a matter of fact manner. So if you have a Thai wife get her to own the business on paper and you can help her. If you pay a nominal fee to help such as on the family farm you can claim you are taking an exercise course.

Another loophole I discovered is that while it is not always possible to own property, farangs can own the mortgage on the property.

As for B & B would it not be appropriate to have a business Visa ? I am unaware of all the ins and outs of Business Visas but surely management would be one of the privileges granted. Management as anyone who has owned a B & B knows ( I have) would have a wide range of duties. One or two labourers at 200 THB/ day could not be that onerous and if this is possible they have done all the manual work negotiated prior to hiring. If you cannot afford a labourer at 200 THB/day, you should not be in business.

[Mario2008]

I went to Thai immigration and asked them if it was OK to repair and maintain my Thai wife's property. They said it was OK in a rather a matter of fact manner. So if you have a Thai wife get her to own the business on paper and you can help her. If you pay a nominal fee to help such as on the family farm you can claim you are taking an exercise course.

Another loophole I discovered is that while it is not always possible to own property, farangs can own the mortgage on the property.

As for B & B would it not be appropriate to have a business Visa ? I am unaware of all the ins and outs of Business Visas but surely management would be one of the privileges granted. Management as anyone who has owned a B & B knows ( I have) would have a wide range of duties. One or two labourers at 200 THB/ day could not be that onerous and if this is possible they have done all the manual work negotiated prior to hiring. If you cannot afford a labourer at 200 THB/day, you should not be in business.

OK as in reparing the house she lives in. But probably not OK if it is property she rents out to others and I wander if you asked about that situation specifically.

[elliottm]

Without a working permit, the only things you can do are:

- Sit, shut up, have a drink, go take a piss and whipe off your own .

Next to this:

- You are not even allowed to talk, to your guests, welcome them or give them some advice.-

- You may not order your staff.

- You may not receive any money or invoicing your guests.

- You may not do any bookkeeping, transfer any money, pay bills and whatsoever.

- You may not serve any breakfast.

- You may not serve any drinks, food or what so ever.

- You may not service any rooms.

- You may not touch any money coming in.

- You may not do any work that a Thai could do.

- You may not answer any calls

- You may not do any translations.

- You may not do any repairs.

- You may not reply or accept any complains

- Should I go on for an other page ???

Just sit and relax, let your Thai staff take care of it.

Whatever a Thai can do, you can NOT

The fine for this is:

30,000 THB fine, jailterm up to 5 years and deportation (on own expenses) of the foreigner

120,000 THB fine for the company involved. If the company is not a Thai limited with at least a company deposit of 2,000,000.- THB, then owners/shareholders will be sentenced to a jailterm up to 5 years.

I know some cases !!! Even cases that the owners were arrested, fined and deported for making their own breakfast or just being in the kitchen getting something.

PS. There is a reward (40,000 THB) for snitching on overstays and/or violation of working permit rules.. So if you want to get rid of any competition

correct, no creative/manual effort at all, compensated or not, without a WP (Aliens Working Act)

[Jay Sata]

My son uses Airbnb a lot on his travels through Asia as a TV journalist .

They offer superior accommodation in many cases at a bargain price.

However the publicity that attracts business is now having a negative affect in some cases.

Small hotels are inclined to complain about losing trade. In Thailand this could mean a visit from immigration.

Elsewhere it's tax and zoning officials.

[Soutpeel]

I went to Thai immigration and asked them if it was OK to repair and maintain my Thai wife's property. They said it was OK in a rather a matter of fact manner. So if you have a Thai wife get her to own the business on paper and you can help her. If you pay a nominal fee to help such as on the family farm you can claim you are taking an exercise course.

Another loophole I discovered is that while it is not always possible to own property, farangs can own the mortgage on the property.

As for B & B would it not be appropriate to have a business Visa ? I am unaware of all the ins and outs of Business Visas but surely management would be one of the privileges granted. Management as anyone who has owned a B & B knows ( I have) would have a wide range of duties. One or two labourers at 200 THB/ day could not be that onerous and if this is possible they have done all the manual work negotiated prior to hiring. If you cannot afford a labourer at 200 THB/day, you should not be in business.

Farangs cannot "own" a mortgage on a landed property, as no bank would be stupid enough to give someone a mortgage on land they cannot legally own....what your talking about is signing as as guarantor on a mortgage for a thai national, the mortgage is still "owned" by the thai national

[Mentors]

I dont have a WP but i feed my dog and cats daily...

[cooked]

Wrong question. Correct question : do I have any jealous neighbours ? Only the OP can answer that .

Sent from my GT-S7500 using Tapatalk 2

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Some others have pointed this out but it bears repeating. If there's a constant parade of strangers in and out of your home/property and they have that tourist look and feel and may even cause the odd disturbance, Thai neighbours might be inclined to put a stop to it by informing immigration police. Or licensing authorities. Officials or police arrive and you don't have a work permit or any municipal permits, OP, what do you think is going to happen? You already know the answers to your questions. The bald fact is, or at least it would be my view if I were contemplating such a thing: if you earn money from an enterprise, you are working.

My (ex) GF owned a restaurant in Jomtien to which I contributed funds. She ran it alone and it hurt every time that I couldn't do something as simple as get an ashtray from the back. I did not dare in case a competitor ratted me out, based on fact or otherwise. And she was taking customers away from neighbouring eateries.

[buda]

[

PS. There is a reward (40,000 THB) for snitching on overstays and/or violation of working permit rules..

Is 'reporting overstays and/or violation of working permit' something one could do 'full-time' and get away with the millons in REWARD. Or do you need a working permit for this also?