One Observation Where I Admire Thai Culture Over My Own

[jackinbkk]

Thai's love free food and free drink!

But congrats op!

[Seastallion]

Congrats Bonobo.

I'm not so sure that Thais are better (or worse) at community spirit than Western cultures. I do suspect, though, that the expat community in Thailand is the one missing the boat.There always seems to be a distance placed between farang when in Thailand.

Meet another Kiwi or Ozzie while visiting/living in (eg) Turkey or Sweden or Fiji, and it's all very friendly and there's a closeness, but Thailand seems to kill that.

[cgphuket]

Compared to Thai people, ex-pats in Thailand are much more self-absorbed, selfish and assume the world revolves around them. I used to find it strange that expats lacked all common courtesy and consideration that foreigners in my home country had, then I realized, either selfish people come here, or Thailand turns them selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons expats have trouble re-assimilating when they return home. My perception anyway, your may be different.

[kurnell]

I've attended many weddings in Thailand and all of them were well attended, both farang and Thai. You must have awful luck or some other condition. I find it very hard to believe that you can invite 250 + and only 4 send an RSVP. Where are you holding it? Not that this has anything to do with it as many people hold their wedding parties at home.

[laobali]

Don't know about the community spirit thing ....BUT I for one enjoy a good party ....especially if the drinks and food are on the house !

That's really it. Thai and Lao enjoy a party. The richer ones sometimes reciprocate; the poor are just welcomed. The expensive wedding is the most important; it's about status (face) for the parents of the couple. Parties are always way over-catered as they never know how many will come, written invitations or not.

[dontoearth]

Please plan for more guests! The thai often bring relatives or even house guests to weddings and parties! If you have 120 planned on think about 150-175 for the food and drinks. Maybe 200 or as everyone will expect a good feed. I am not complaining at all. I like that! I have no idea when US culture became so stingy and formal! I am from a small rural area where the neighborhood turned out for all social occassions and we had them on the lawn in the summer or a big hall in the winter. Of course people brought aged parents and kids. Jeez! What kind of world we live in now? I wish the very best! You know one further observation I have found lots of ex-pats clam up and close off in Thailand. They view the extra attendees at parties and movies and such an unwelcome bother. I am glad you have not adopted that poor attitude. I believe u will truly be happy.

[Ulysses G.]

Compared to Thai people, ex-pats in Thailand are much more self-absorbed, selfish and assume the world revolves around them. I used to find it strange that expats lacked all common courtesy and consideration that foreigners in my home country had, then I realized, either selfish people come here, or Thailand turns them selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons expats have trouble re-assimilating when they return home. My perception anyway, your may be different.

Bah humbug. I can't stand parties, weddings, funerals or any of that stuff and I am not going to go to one unless I absolutely have to. It sounds like there are a lot of expats that think the same way. I don't think that the OP should take it personally.

[PaulHamon]

For our wedding (my wife is from Bangkok) and we had it in Pran Buri (south of Hua Hin) many of the Thais' RSVP yes, but plenty just didn't show up. Of course plenty of others invited themselves... which really pissed off my wife.

Unlike a wedding in Australia, if you RSVP, you turn up, period.

Edited March 17, 2014 by PaulHamon

[smileydude]

I might be able to shed some light into this phenomenon you are experiencing.

According to Gallup Consulting research called "The State of the Global Workplace, A worlwide study of employee engagment and wellbeing" involving more then 47,000 employees in 120 countries one of the questions which SE asians scored highest in the world was "I have a best friend at work". Employees in the US, Australia, NZ and most of Western Europe scored below the global mean on this topic and East Asians like the Japanese fared even worse. The Japanese scored highest on teamwork (not surprisingly) but their work culture does not actively support personal friendships at work, maybe at the Karaoke bars instead.

Thailand like other SE asian cultures has a strong support network both at work and in society. You see it when someone runs into difficult times and a relative or friend is ready to lend a helping hand even though they may already be strained. Grandparents are willingly happy to care for grandchild. Crashing at someone's place when out of a job is common. I think the western world sees and separates friendship and obligation. Could this have come from a more dog eat dog world they've grown up in? Or are Thai's too krengjai (considerate) so much so not attending would appear disrespectful or cause one too lose face? I think the culture of "krengjai" definitely plays a part in this and it is also considered somewhat a bit thoughtless/rude not to attend a friend's wedding as attendance is a form of respect Thai people give not only to the bride and groom but also to the parents/phuyai's and reverance to the ceremony itself. This is not to say westerners think less of each other but there exists a different social etiquette mindset.

Edited March 17, 2014 by smileydude

[ppmacready]

I'm sure 100 years ago the response from your Falang friends would have been different.

[GarryP]

Compared to Thai people, ex-pats in Thailand are much more self-absorbed, selfish and assume the world revolves around them. I used to find it strange that expats lacked all common courtesy and consideration that foreigners in my home country had, then I realized, either selfish people come here, or Thailand turns them selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons expats have trouble re-assimilating when they return home. My perception anyway, your may be different.

Bah humbug. I can't stand parties, weddings, funerals or any of that stuff and I am not going to go to one unless I absolutely have to. It sounds like there are a lot of expats that think the same way. I don't think that the OP should take it personally.

I attend only those functions I feel obligated to attend. I do not enjoy weddings or funerals so, if possible without looking too antisocial, put some money in an envelope and give it to someone I know will attend to hand it over to the host.

[bonobo]

I've attended many weddings in Thailand and all of them were well attended, both farang and Thai. You must have awful luck or some other condition. I find it very hard to believe that you can invite 250 + and only 4 send an RSVP. Where are you holding it? Not that this has anything to do with it as many people hold their wedding parties at home.

The 250 invites were more for form than anything else. It is hard to invite one person from a group and not another. I never expected most of those invitees to actually come. However, when going over the list, I would say there were about 60 people who I thought would probably come. Not all necessarily as my close friends, not because they enjoy a party, but some because of social obligations, even if was their wife who insisted that they had to come. Back in the US, for example, I've gone to weddings that I really would have rather skipped, but I went because the bride or groom was an employee, boss, distant cousin, etc.

The party is at a commercial wedding place close to the Chao Praya river with easy access.

[Cosmo88]

Most societies on earth are still today community-based, meaning that (extended) family and friends have the highest priority in life. In some places on the planet, such as North Europe, this concept has eroded in the last 100 years and so, to the extent where the societies may today be described as individual-based. Taking it to the most extreme, it's about the individual and the State, and that's it.

Although the community-based aspect is not unique to Thailand, it is understandably an attractive thing for many Westerners.

[wym]

Personally I LOVE weddings, particularly upcountry ones that go on for days.

A few times a year I head out on pre-arranged tours, attending up to a dozen in a row, often bringing along a gang of relatively noob guys sick of the bar scene looking for a nice girl. When the locals here we're coming it boosts the party numbers by a LOT, which our hosts love since everyone contributes to the pig & whisky fund, definitely win-win-win and a LOT of fun!

Several dozen further weddings have resulted, so far pretty good results of them lasting, at least among those that have kept in touch.

[umbanda]

Wonderful posting!!!

Thank you very much for sharing. I cannot say that better.....I just was in a wedding this weekend...again. I love those parties!

It is a book called "Committed" by Elisabeth Gilbert, the same writer of Eat, Pray, Love..about wedding and marriage customs in Asian countries. Very interesting...She wrote about one on a modest village where many people was attending, specially young couples.

All the guest were gifting money inside envelopes, like here. The task for the new married couple on the wedding's night, was to make a list of all the attending guest registering the amount gifted.....to gift back to the same people when getting married. She wrote that the money gifted in a wedding sometimes is enough to build a home, or buy a truck, or start a business. ....

I tough was amazing, and says a lot about the Asian culture.

By the way...."Eat, Pray, Love" is a woman's real journey and a wonderful book and movie...to read before "Committed".

[lostinsurin]

There is no doubt Thais are more social, and community oriented than westerners, one of the things I also really enjoy and appreciate about Thailand. this difference with the west can be exemplified with the following observation.

Homes in the west are build in the front oh the property leaning a back yard where the occupants can live in privacy. Homes in Thailand are for the most part build in the back of the property, with the occupants living in the front where they can socialize with their neighbors and community.

I wish you were living here and not just sample Thai life once in a while.

Then you would experience this socialization with your neighbours being drunk, having the music blowing till 4 in the morning and shouting at the top of their voices.

Then you would have appreciated Thai culture better.

Don't think the OP lives in Isaan where I live and you sometimes visit.

So positive, sounds like you suffer from refugee syndrome.

[Card]

Care of elderly. That said that is an chicken and egg issue. They care at home for them because there are lots of family not working. The family not working means they can't afford hospital or nursing

That is a big one that I admire, and while the financial aspect has some legs, many of my Thai friends are frankly very wealthy. Yet all of them care for elderly family members in the home or within a family compound. They just cannot conceive sending them off to a nursing home.

I see this same community spirit elsewhere, too. One of my friends is flying to New York in June with his wife and kids. Why? Because a classmate's son is graduating from Columbia, and they were invited to the graduation ceremony.

This nursing home for the elderly thing is often used by asians as a dig at modern life in the west, where elderly family members are neglected and put away for someone else to take care of. I don't believe this is a true reflection of the situation for the following reasons:

1. Many asian families use old people to take care of the children, cook, clean the house etc. so are used, sometimes like maids or servants..

2. Asian don't want to have to pay for a home for Asian elderlies, or can't afford it.

3. There are not many homes catering for the specilaised social and health needs of the elderly in Asia and when they do occur they are not set up to be paid for from social provision.

4. Many elderly people in the West are very independent minded and want their own space.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Card

[techboy]

Care of elderly. That said that is an chicken and egg issue. They care at home for them because there are lots of family not working. The family not working means they can't afford hospital or nursing

Wrong. It may be a more pronounced part of Thai culture but also is common everywhere. And frankly something that I have mixed feelings about. When multiple generations live under the same roof there can be a great deal of conflict that results in confusion and manipulation of the kids.

Edited March 17, 2014 by techboy

[robblok]

I think to be honest that Thais like these kind of things more as foreigners. Also dont forget they travel in packs (not meant insulting) and will always have fun as a group while the foreigners have far less people around them to bind them to that wedding. I tend to avoid 90% of the weddings as I don't like those things that much.

My last wedding was a perfect example of how a Thai wedding (bit upper scale) works. We went to a party not too far from my home in a nice hotel. Nice foods were brought and all the Thai groups were sitting on seperate tables and the people on the tables had fun but as little islands. They saw it more as a meeting of friends then as a wedding celebration. For them any place to go is a party.

[maximillian]

To the OP:

Congratulations !!!

You seem to be very well of. Guess you have a great house in an even greater subdivision.

You have more friends than I know people. (I'm not a very social type.)

If I had to accomodate/entertain/feed 600 people, I'd be broke for the rest of my life.

Your future wife must be very beautiful and for sure she is very happy/lucky.

My sincerest congratulations again !

[Neeranam]

Compared to Thai people, ex-pats in Thailand are much more self-absorbed, selfish and assume the world revolves around them. I used to find it strange that expats lacked all common courtesy and consideration that foreigners in my home country had, then I realized, either selfish people come here, or Thailand turns them selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons expats have trouble re-assimilating when they return home. My perception anyway, your may be different.

Do you put yourself in this category too or is it only other expats?

I agree with you.

I was amazed at my wedding that so many of my friends came. 12 came from Scotland! About 10 came from a place I used to work(including the president and my direct boss!) and was fired from for sitting outside the 7/11 with a bottle of whisky after phoning in sick. Occasions such as weddings helps you find out who your real friends are.

[kurnell]

I've attended many weddings in Thailand and all of them were well attended, both farang and Thai. You must have awful luck or some other condition. I find it very hard to believe that you can invite 250 + and only 4 send an RSVP. Where are you holding it? Not that this has anything to do with it as many people hold their wedding parties at home.

The 250 invites were more for form than anything else. It is hard to invite one person from a group and not another. I never expected most of those invitees to actually come. However, when going over the list, I would say there were about 60 people who I thought would probably come. Not all necessarily as my close friends, not because they enjoy a party, but some because of social obligations, even if was their wife who insisted that they had to come. Back in the US, for example, I've gone to weddings that I really would have rather skipped, but I went because the bride or groom was an employee, boss, distant cousin, etc.

The party is at a commercial wedding place close to the Chao Praya river with easy access.

Crikey, I even had people crashing my wedding.

[sam sen]

and here's the paradox... thai's are undoubtedly more family orientated than in the west they are however far more likely to lie, cheat, steal and generally rip off other family members than we do in the west.

enjoy the wedding!

[blazes]

Wonderful posting!!!

Thank you very much for sharing. I cannot say that better.....I just was in a wedding this weekend...again. I love those parties!

It is a book called "Committed" by Elisabeth Gilbert, the same writer of Eat, Pray, Love..about wedding and marriage customs in Asian countries. Very interesting...She wrote about one on a modest village where many people was attending, specially young couples.

All the guest were gifting money inside envelopes, like here. The task for the new married couple on the wedding's night, was to make a list of all the attending guest registering the amount gifted.....to gift back to the same people when getting married. She wrote that the money gifted in a wedding sometimes is enough to build a home, or buy a truck, or start a business. ....

I tough was amazing, and says a lot about the Asian culture.

By the way...."Eat, Pray, Love" is a woman's real journey and a wonderful book and movie...to read before "Committed".

Yes,, this book ("Eat Pray etc) was responsible for sending a lot of fat Western (especially American) elderly women to Italy and such "romantic"places " looking for "love" while eating and occasionally doing what passes for prayer.

Utter garbage of a book. Be warned.

[blazes]

Strange how this thread, supposedly about how Thai culture in some instances is superior to Western, ends up being a banal series of generalizations about expats and their capacity (or not) for genuine friendship.

I think Facebook is the best example of how superficial is the Western concept of "friendship". All those "friends" and you know maybe 5% personally and reasonably well.

To return to the thread: one thing in Thai culture that is infinitely superior to Western practice is THE WAI. This allows a Thai to be polite without having to spread possibly harmful bacteria or viruses from hand to hand, thus possibly helping to avoid the spread of such inconvenient things as the common cold. When I go back to my own country, this is one aspect of Thainess that remains with me, and I try to keep hand-shaking to a minimum. (Needless to say, I do not do anything so daft as to Wai when I am back in the West!)

Edited March 17, 2014 by blazes

[wilcopops]

Thailand is in transition....from an agrarian society to an industrial one, the concepts of family and community you allude to are seen in all agrarian societies and far less so after a few generations of industrialisation. Thai culture? not really, just how things work anywhere.

[thailiketoo]

Strange how this thread, supposedly about how Thai culture in some instances is superior to Western, ends up being a banal series of generalizations about expats and their capacity (or not) for genuine friendship.

I think Facebook is the best example of how superficial is the Western concept of "friendship". All those "friends" and you know maybe 5% personally and reasonably well.

To return to the thread: one thing in Thai culture that is infinitely superior to Western practice is THE WAI. This allows a Thai to be polite without having to spread possibly harmful bacteria or viruses from hand to hand, thus possibly helping to avoid the spread of such inconvenient things as the common cold. When I go back to my own country, this is one aspect of Thainess that remains with me, and I try to keep hand-shaking to a minimum. (Needless to say, I do not do anything so daft as to Wai when I am back in the West!)

Sting Wais at 1:00 minute. Is Sting daft?

Go ahead and Wai. Sting does and I do. If you do that will make three.

[wwest5829]

There is no doubt Thais are more social, and community oriented than westerners, one of the things I also really enjoy and appreciate about Thailand. this difference with the west can be exemplified with the following observation.

Homes in the west are build in the front oh the property leaning a back yard where the occupants can live in privacy. Homes in Thailand are for the most part build in the back of the property, with the occupants living in the front where they can socialize with their neighbors and community.

I understand your thoughts but offer caution. I come from Rural Kentucky. The community (3rd largest county in KY) was close knit. A lot depends on your circle of friends and acquaintances. As to housing, that too depends. I had 18.5 acres, so no close neighbor houses but in town housing varies as to distance from the road. In my wife's Thai village, the houses are on the road. Guess it depends too on how old the community. The paths become roads and the houses end up fronting the road.

[peterpan123]

Hi Bonobo,

Congratulations with your marriage, I hope you will enjoy a long wonderful journey together with all a marriage entails...

I lived in Bangkok for 12 years until 2010 and are now based in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam.

While living and working in Bangkok I have met, over the years, many, many expats and I used to run a monthly newsletter as well as inviting to my networking event to stay in touch with people and to stay 'visible' (at least in their email box if not anything else).

My experience with expats in Thailand (and many other places) is that you create 'situational friendships' which is mainly based on things you may have in common in e.g Bangkok or common points of interest, some of them could easily be bar hopping and other, should we say, not entirely deep and content rich topics... :-)

If you live in this wonderful place with a real job etc and your tenure is the usual circle of 2-3 years, my experience is that the majority of your expat friends do like to socialize during the week or over a game of golf but when it comes to more things the family often come first and the weekend is sort of 'off limit' for the main working expat to go out and 'have fun' (not saying your marriage isn't serious).

This could explain the low number of sign ups for your wedding.

For my case I would say that I have about 10 - 15 friends 'left' of expat friends in Bangkok = that would attend a wedding, but likely only 5-6 would be able to attend for a variety of reasons.

Just my 2 cents..

[thailiketoo]

I believe the topic is "I admire Thai culture over my own." We discussed the Wai above. Makes a lot of sense. Odor is another. Thais smell better than people in my culture.

Criminal fines for small things like a motorcycle helmet or driver's license can be negotiated.

I don't have to wait at the doctors office and I can go at night after work. Same with the dentist. Thais think I am smart enough to know when I need to refill my prescription and I don't have to get another one from the doctor.

Edited March 17, 2014 by thailiketoo