Testosterone - legal and available in Thailand?

[ding]

I'm on Dr prescribed TRT and need to know if getting a vial of Testosterone cypionate is legal in LOS.

Do I need my US doc's prescription?

Would I need a Thai doc's prescription?

Or are there pharmacies that sell Test cyp vials?

Also, I am prescribed an aromatase inhibitor, Anastrozole 0.5mg tabs - are these available at pharmacies without a prescription?

[cheeryble]

Sorry I don't know your answer specifically but interested to know if testosterone gel is legally available yet? (And if so the price)

It seems to me the best method of delivery but has previously not been available.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[thepool]

The Anastrozole is available but only on prescription.*

Testosterone cypionate is also available *

It is likely that both of these products will only be available from a hospital pharmacy.

It would be legal for a personal supply (30 days worth) of medication to be bought into the country but ensure it remains in the original packaging and is accompanied by a Drs letter/prescription.

To obtain prescription only drugs in Thailand it would be necessary to consult with a Thai hospital doctor. Having a letter from your Dr. would aid the process. the letter needs to outline your medical history and current medication.

Information from MIMS (Thailand)

[bbabythai]

OP do you mind if I ask what are the side effects? What are you taking that for specifically? Has your labido increased?

[ding]

Thanks thepool - I prefer cypionate because it's a long carbon chain ester. But enanthate or propioponate are fine.

My search prior to posting showed people are getting injection monthly. Ouch! Must be some bad swings there.

And some previous posters mentioned getting it at pharmacies, so I thought I'd ask if that was still the case.

cheeryble - Gel was too expensive for me but worked well. I didn't use it long enough to get dialed in, and my endocrinologist didn't do adequate testing so I don't know why my free T level dropped while on it. He didn't test estradiol, SHBG, FSH, or CBC. I had to push to get PSA included in the blood work! I went to a Naturopath and am dialed in now.

[Shurup]

Last I checked the MIMS Thailand, cypianate wasn't available (legally), but enanthate is available (in the form of a Testoviron Depot) and the OTC from what everyone it saying (MIMS Thailand doesn't say the prescription is required for it).

[ding]

OP do you mind if I ask what are the side effects? What are you taking that for specifically? Has your labido increased?

No sides. I feel much better. I had low energy, libido, and brain fog - kind of spacey and disinterested.

I have no roid rage at all. My PSA is great so prostate good to go.

I tried everything natural first. In fact I thought I had a blood sugar issue.

I went to the gym. Did research and started lifting heavy and eating beef. More research found me taking nettle, ginseng root, zinc.

I got tested and it was barely in range after all that.

Then I researched testosterone, which I had dismissed because of the bogus TV ads.

It wasn't the evil I thought it was, as it turned out. Then the search for a Dr that knew what to do.

My endo was used to treating very serious conditions, not a guy who goes to the gym most days and eats clean, counts calories and macros, and weighs all food.

I'm in much better shape and feel strong.

The wife likes it too! Now there's a side effect....

[JDGRUEN]

Testosterone supplements are known to increase one's metabolism. For me in about 3 weeks of taking one HOM brand testosterone undecaboate 40 mg capsule daily - it has meant a breakthrough in weight loss - mostly fat around the middle. Since May of 2013 through February 2014 I cut my calorie, fat and carb intake - overall portion intake progressively by more than 50% - perhaps as low as 45% of what I was taking in last May. I reach a plateau of weight loss in January 2014. Coming to Thailand in January caused me to cut my daily intake to what it is now. During February nothing happened -- total stasis. Not good - as I still have fat around the middle - typical American older guy. Since starting the supplement that I just described above, I have lost least one kilogram in weight - mostly fat loss. Their seems to be a small amount of muscle replacement - not much. Over my beer belly is now diminishing more. My slip over shirt barely bulges out now. Note: I have been walking - hot or cool outside - since about January 20th. I walk between 5-10 kilometers 5 days a week. Before starting the Testosterone supplement, the combined walking and continued reasonable - low everything diet was producing little noticeable effect - I had reached a metabolic plateau. I attribute the static weight loss breakthrough to the T. supplement. I take only one capsule daily - the literature that comes with the supplement suggest 3 to 4 caps daily. I could not take that much as I would wired all day and would likely push up my B/P way too much. I take many natural supplements some to regulate blood pressure and enlarged prostate (saw palmetto extract I found here in Thailand called Sametto - which works GREAT). I am well educated and experienced in medicine and health matters and I am watchful of any side effects. This particular form of testosterone does not seem to have much effect on virility. By the way -- the Testosterone supplement I write about was OTC over the counter - recommended by an English speaking pharmacist... recommended over other brands I was looking at.

Edited March 24, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[Sheryl]

Testosterone cypionate is available in Thailand in injectable form as brand name Cypionax. The category is not listed but as other injectable testosterones are OTC I expect this is as well, though many poharmacies will balk at selling needles and syringes without a script, espceiall yto foreigners (stereotypes of drug abuse).

Anastrazole is available under 3 brand names: Remedica (localy made), Arimidex (imported so expensive) and Femizet (imported). Prescription only and likely available only in hospital pharmacies or in large private pharmacies adjacent to a major hospitel - there are special requirements a pharmacy has to meet to sell this even with prescription.

The Thai FDA approves Anastrazole only for use in women with breast cancer, not for male TRT, so this would be an off-label use (as it is in most countries) and you may find it not so easy to get a script. So be sure to consult a doctor specializing in male TRT, and if possible have with you a medical summary from your doctor back home.

[Sheryl]

Posts discussing illegal activitiies and posts replying to same have been removed.

[Sheryl]

Posts discussing illegal activities and posts replying to same have been removed.

[ding]

Testosterone cypionate is available in Thailand in injectable form as brand name Cypionax. The category is not listed but as other injectable testosterones are OTC I expect this is as well, though many poharmacies will balk at selling needles and syringes without a script, espceiall yto foreigners (stereotypes of drug abuse).

Anastrazole is available under 3 brand names: Remedica (localy made), Arimidex (imported so expensive) and Femizet (imported). Prescription only and likely available only in hospital pharmacies or in large private pharmacies adjacent to a major hospitel - there are special requirements a pharmacy has to meet to sell this even with prescription.

The Thai FDA approves Anastrazole only for use in women with breast cancer, not for male TRT, so this would be an off-label use (as it is in most countries) and you may find it not so easy to get a script. So be sure to consult a doctor specializing in male TRT, and if possible have with you a medical summary from your doctor back home.

As always, Sheryl for the win!

Estrogen is needed, I don't want to crush it, just suppress it a bit, but still keep my lipids in range.

I'm not familiar with Remedica. I wonder how it compares.

Aromasin (exemestane) should be taken every day from what I read - its got a short half life. It needs to be consumed with dietary fat or it has poor absorption. It would be ok if available.

Looks like Femizet is a brand name for Anastrazole;

http://www.fda.gov.ph/attachments/article/95608/For%20Release%20Drug%20CPR%2018%20March%202014.pdf

Second line item down.

I may just have to bring my own AI it seems. Maybe it would be wise to bring a note from the Dr. too?

[cheeryble]

Thanks thepool - I prefer cypionate because it's a long carbon chain ester. But enanthate or propioponate are fine.

My search prior to posting showed people are getting injection monthly. Ouch! Must be some bad swings there.

And some previous posters mentioned getting it at pharmacies, so I thought I'd ask if that was still the case.

cheeryble - Gel was too expensive for me but worked well. I didn't use it long enough to get dialed in, and my endocrinologist didn't do adequate testing so I don't know why my free T level dropped while on it. He didn't test estradiol, SHBG, FSH, or CBC. I had to push to get PSA included in the blood work! I went to a Naturopath and am dialed in now.

Thanks for your experience Ding.

To answer another poster the main benefits of T taper not sexual, but tendencies to better mood (if poor), better sleep, better body tone, more confidence, etc etc.

As for the swings Ding (!) the T salts have different half lives so are often mixed to smooth out the high and low somewhat....but it's imperfect yes.

As for your doc not giving you a PSA test you might look up a prostate thread I started.

PSA testing is now CONTRA-RECOMMENDED in symptomless men.

See USPSTF recommendations, and good luck to us all :-)

As for the price of TGel like much of pharma it's an utter crime.

They used the delivery method to patent it despite the delivery method is a simple mix of ingredients, gelling agent etc which have all been used for years and is cheap as chips as is the T crystal.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited March 24, 2014 by cheeryble

[ding]

Testosterone supplements are known to increase one's metabolism. For me in about 3 weeks of taking one HOM brand testosterone undecaboate 40 mg capsule daily - it has meant a breakthrough in weight loss - mostly fat around the middle. Since May of 2013 through February 2014 I cut my calorie, fat and carb intake - overall portion intake progressively by more than 50% - perhaps as low as 45% of what I was taking in last May. I reach a plateau of weight loss in January 2014. Coming to Thailand in January caused me to cut my daily intake to what it is now. During February nothing happened -- total stasis. Not good - as I still have fat around the middle - typical American older guy. Since starting the supplement that I just described above, I have lost least one kilogram in weight - mostly fat loss. Their seems to be a small amount of muscle replacement - not much. Over my beer belly is now diminishing more. My slip over shirt barely bulges out now. Note: I have been walking - hot or cool outside - since about January 20th. I walk between 5-10 kilometers 5 days a week. Before starting the Testosterone supplement, the combined walking and continued reasonable - low everything diet was producing little noticeable effect - I had reached a metabolic plateau. I attribute the static weight loss breakthrough to the T. supplement. I take only one capsule daily - the literature that comes with the supplement suggest 3 to 4 caps daily. I could not take that much as I would wired all day and would likely push up my B/P way too much. I take many natural supplements some to regulate blood pressure and enlarged prostate (saw palmetto extract I found here in Thailand called Sametto - which works GREAT). I am well educated and experienced in medicine and health matters and I am watchful of any side effects. This particular form of testosterone does not seem to have much effect on virility. By the way -- the Testosterone supplement I write about was OTC over the counter - recommended by an English speaking pharmacist... recommended over other brands I was looking at.

Are you getting frequent blood work with liver panel? I would think injecting Intra Muscularly (IM) would be much safer. Some inject it subcutaneously too, in the fat layer below the skin (sub Q).

I agree about blood pressure, I test my hematocrit every time - really like my new doc. I have donated blood once already and will again when 58 days pass.

[ding]

Thanks thepool - I prefer cypionate because it's a long carbon chain ester. But enanthate or propioponate are fine.

My search prior to posting showed people are getting injection monthly. Ouch! Must be some bad swings there.

And some previous posters mentioned getting it at pharmacies, so I thought I'd ask if that was still the case.

cheeryble - Gel was too expensive for me but worked well. I didn't use it long enough to get dialed in, and my endocrinologist didn't do adequate testing so I don't know why my free T level dropped while on it. He didn't test estradiol, SHBG, FSH, or CBC. I had to push to get PSA included in the blood work! I went to a Naturopath and am dialed in now.

Thanks for your experience Ding.

To answer another poster the main benefits of T taper not sexual, but tendencies to better mood (if poor), better sleep, better body tone, more confidence, etc etc.

As for the swings Ding (!) the T salts have different half lives so are often mixed to smooth out the high and low somewhat....but it's imperfect yes.

As for your doc not giving you a PSA test you might look up a prostate thread I started.

PSA testing is now CONTRA-RECOMMENDED in symptomless men.

See USPSTF recommendations, and good luck to us all :-)

As for the price of TGel like much of pharma it's an utter crime.

They used the delivery method to patent it despite the delivery method is a simple mix of ingredients, gelling agent etc which have all been used for years and is cheap as chips as is the T crystal.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Thanks brother. I plan to stop the T immediately if the PSA spikes. T doesn't cause prostate cancer, but will pour gas on that fire if it exists. I was surprised the PSA screening recommendation changed. I think it's what comes afterward that causes damage.

Here's the 'risk of harm' that caused the USPSTF to change it's PSA screening recommendations;

"study that found the highest reported benefit suggests that no more than 1 man in 1,000 avoids death from prostate cancer because of screening. Other studies found no benefit at all.

11. What are the harms of screening?

The Task Force found that PSA screening has important potential harms. The PSA screening test often suggests that prostate cancer may be present when there is no cancer. This is called a “false-positive” result. Such results cause worry and anxiety and can result in follow-up tests and procedures, such as biopsies, that aren't needed. Biopsies can cause harms such as fever, infection, bleeding, urinary problems, and pain. A small number of men will be hospitalized because of these complications.

Because there is so much uncertainty about which cancers need to be treated, almost all men with prostate cancer found by the PSA test now get treatment with surgery, radiation, or hormone therapy. Many of these men do not need treatment because their cancer would not have grown or caused health problems even without treatment. This is called “overtreatment.”

The Task Force found that the treatment of cancers found by the PSA test has important, often lasting harms:

• Erectile dysfunction (impotence) from surgery, radiation therapy, or hormone therapy;
• Urinary incontinence (leakage of urine) from radiation therapy or surgery;
• Problems with bowel control from radiation therapy; and
• Death and serious complications from surgery."

[JDGRUEN]

Thanks thepool - I prefer cypionate because it's a long carbon chain ester. But enanthate or propioponate are fine.

My search prior to posting showed people are getting injection monthly. Ouch! Must be some bad swings there.

And some previous posters mentioned getting it at pharmacies, so I thought I'd ask if that was still the case.

cheeryble - Gel was too expensive for me but worked well. I didn't use it long enough to get dialed in, and my endocrinologist didn't do adequate testing so I don't know why my free T level dropped while on it. He didn't test estradiol, SHBG, FSH, or CBC. I had to push to get PSA included in the blood work! I went to a Naturopath and am dialed in now.

Thanks for your experience Ding.

To answer another poster the main benefits of T taper not sexual, but tendencies to better mood (if poor), better sleep, better body tone, more confidence, etc etc.

As for the swings Ding (!) the T salts have different half lives so are often mixed to smooth out the high and low somewhat....but it's imperfect yes.

As for your doc not giving you a PSA test you might look up a prostate thread I started.

PSA testing is now CONTRA-RECOMMENDED in symptomless men.

See USPSTF recommendations, and good luck to us all :-)

As for the price of TGel like much of pharma it's an utter crime.

They used the delivery method to patent it despite the delivery method is a simple mix of ingredients, gelling agent etc which have all been used for years and is cheap as chips as is the T crystal.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Thanks brother. I plan to stop the T immediately if the PSA spikes. T doesn't cause prostate cancer, but will pour gas on that fire if it exists. I was surprised the PSA screening recommendation changed. I think it's what comes afterward that causes damage.

Here's the 'risk of harm' that caused the USPSTF to change it's PSA screening recommendations;

"study that found the highest reported benefit suggests that no more than 1 man in 1,000 avoids death from prostate cancer because of screening. Other studies found no benefit at all.

11. What are the harms of screening?

The Task Force found that PSA screening has important potential harms. The PSA screening test often suggests that prostate cancer may be present when there is no cancer. This is called a “false-positive” result. Such results cause worry and anxiety and can result in follow-up tests and procedures, such as biopsies, that aren't needed. Biopsies can cause harms such as fever, infection, bleeding, urinary problems, and pain. A small number of men will be hospitalized because of these complications.

Because there is so much uncertainty about which cancers need to be treated, almost all men with prostate cancer found by the PSA test now get treatment with surgery, radiation, or hormone therapy. Many of these men do not need treatment because their cancer would not have grown or caused health problems even without treatment. This is called “overtreatment.”

The Task Force found that the treatment of cancers found by the PSA test has important, often lasting harms:

• Erectile dysfunction (impotence) from surgery, radiation therapy, or hormone therapy;
• Urinary incontinence (leakage of urine) from radiation therapy or surgery;
• Problems with bowel control from radiation therapy; and
• Death and serious complications from surgery."

One other factor... many prostate cancers occur in men age mid 70's and if left undetected and untreated... statistically many such men will die of other causes long before the slow growing prostate cancer become a significant problem and certainly before it can cause death.

[JDGRUEN]

Testosterone supplements are known to increase one's metabolism. For me in about 3 weeks of taking one HOM brand testosterone undecaboate 40 mg capsule daily - it has meant a breakthrough in weight loss - mostly fat around the middle. Since May of 2013 through February 2014 I cut my calorie, fat and carb intake - overall portion intake progressively by more than 50% - perhaps as low as 45% of what I was taking in last May. I reach a plateau of weight loss in January 2014. Coming to Thailand in January caused me to cut my daily intake to what it is now. During February nothing happened -- total stasis. Not good - as I still have fat around the middle - typical American older guy. Since starting the supplement that I just described above, I have lost least one kilogram in weight - mostly fat loss. Their seems to be a small amount of muscle replacement - not much. Over my beer belly is now diminishing more. My slip over shirt barely bulges out now. Note: I have been walking - hot or cool outside - since about January 20th. I walk between 5-10 kilometers 5 days a week. Before starting the Testosterone supplement, the combined walking and continued reasonable - low everything diet was producing little noticeable effect - I had reached a metabolic plateau. I attribute the static weight loss breakthrough to the T. supplement. I take only one capsule daily - the literature that comes with the supplement suggest 3 to 4 caps daily. I could not take that much as I would wired all day and would likely push up my B/P way too much. I take many natural supplements some to regulate blood pressure and enlarged prostate (saw palmetto extract I found here in Thailand called Sametto - which works GREAT). I am well educated and experienced in medicine and health matters and I am watchful of any side effects. This particular form of testosterone does not seem to have much effect on virility. By the way -- the Testosterone supplement I write about was OTC over the counter - recommended by an English speaking pharmacist... recommended over other brands I was looking at.

Are you getting frequent blood work with liver panel? I would think injecting Intra Muscularly (IM) would be much safer. Some inject it subcutaneously too, in the fat layer below the skin (sub Q).

I agree about blood pressure, I test my hematocrit every time - really like my new doc. I have donated blood once already and will again when 58 days pass.

I only take 1/3 to 1/4th. the recommended dosage of this particular T, med... and I take many other health supplements that are touted to promote liver health... including and especially Lecithin and for many years have taken SAMe which has beneficial effects on liver health... so as a result of precaution I am not too worried. And I don't plan on taking the T. supplement for a lengthy period of time ... just enough time to help boost my metabolism and to rid myself of a much greater health risk called FAT.

[h90]

Isn't it, that if you start with it, the body reduces the own production (OK it is anyway too low). But than if you stop injecting it, you have zero own production.

That always scared me...But I must admit I read mostly at the bodybuilder webpages...surely they use higher doses...

[Sheryl]

Testosterone cypionate is available in Thailand in injectable form as brand name Cypionax. The category is not listed but as other injectable testosterones are OTC I expect this is as well, though many poharmacies will balk at selling needles and syringes without a script, espceiall yto foreigners (stereotypes of drug abuse).

Anastrazole is available under 3 brand names: Remedica (localy made), Arimidex (imported so expensive) and Femizet (imported). Prescription only and likely available only in hospital pharmacies or in large private pharmacies adjacent to a major hospitel - there are special requirements a pharmacy has to meet to sell this even with prescription.

The Thai FDA approves Anastrazole only for use in women with breast cancer, not for male TRT, so this would be an off-label use (as it is in most countries) and you may find it not so easy to get a script. So be sure to consult a doctor specializing in male TRT, and if possible have with you a medical summary from your doctor back home.

As always, Sheryl for the win!

Estrogen is needed, I don't want to crush it, just suppress it a bit, but still keep my lipids in range.

I'm not familiar with Remedica. I wonder how it compares.

Aromasin (exemestane) should be taken every day from what I read - its got a short half life. It needs to be consumed with dietary fat or it has poor absorption. It would be ok if available.

Looks like Femizet is a brand name for Anastrazole;

http://www.fda.gov.ph/attachments/article/95608/For%20Release%20Drug%20CPR%2018%20March%202014.pdf

Second line item down.

I may just have to bring my own AI it seems. Maybe it would be wise to bring a note from the Dr. too?

Indeed it would. Both in case of questions by customs and in case you need to see a doctor in Thailand for anything related to this.

[bbabythai]

are there any risks to the heart from taking testosterone? If I have dystolic BP issues is there a risk?

[cheeryble]

If you have LOW testosterone you may be more sedentary which would probably not benefit your heart or the way you feel.

I think it's generally accepted a healthy T level goes with a more active person.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[johnnywishbone]

Dosage. All things in moderation. For me, hgh and T levels of an 18 year old are my target.

I have been doing this for over 30 years.

I just put it in my checked luggage.

No Problemo.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ding]

@ Sheryl - Will do! Thanks yet again for all you do.

@ cheeryble - Agree. Yet at some point T levels decline, despite hitting the gym hard every day. I decided not to pull over and watch the race. I'm all-in again and feel great. Many health benefits from normal T levels too. Low T is unhealthy, new research is discovering. Keeping in mind, TRT is a money-making venture for big pharma too.

@ bbabythai - You need a Doc who is fully aware of the endocrinology Kabuki dance and all the peripheral issues as well. It really is a specialty IMHO. My endo was outstanding at resolving serious issues, but TRT was not on his radar. Learning about TRT was at first an effort to avoid using testosterone, for me. It has been a long journey - learning about it before starting. Here is a video that explains it well as a start; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTPcnEVwhqQ#t=15

Edited March 24, 2014 by ding

[CBR250]

Just a slight tangent because this topic is quite interesting for me at present, as I consider beginning TRT. There has been at least one piece of literature suggesting that the whole "TRT exacerbates prostate cancer" argument is fanciful. One article (link below) claims that evidence used to support the argument is ancient and badly mis-read. See:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/dec2008_Destroying-the-Myth-about-Testosterone-Replacement-Prostate-Cancer_01.htm

The researcher rejecting the TRT / prostate link is quite an eminent academic, so his article is worth considering seriously. As yet I have not searched to see if there is any good subsequent literature supporting either view.

[Talken1949]

Sheryl:

Would appreciate it if you could cite sources (stores, pharmacies, etc) where Testosterone Cypionate is available. I am running low on my prescription from the US and would prefer to not have to travel back there just to fill a prescription. Thanks.

Testosterone cypionate is available in Thailand in injectable form as brand name Cypionax. The category is not listed but as other injectable testosterones are OTC I expect this is as well, though many poharmacies will balk at selling needles and syringes without a script, espceiall yto foreigners (stereotypes of drug abuse).

Anastrazole is available under 3 brand names: Remedica (localy made), Arimidex (imported so expensive) and Femizet (imported). Prescription only and likely available only in hospital pharmacies or in large private pharmacies adjacent to a major hospitel - there are special requirements a pharmacy has to meet to sell this even with prescription.

The Thai FDA approves Anastrazole only for use in women with breast cancer, not for male TRT, so this would be an off-label use (as it is in most countries) and you may find it not so easy to get a script. So be sure to consult a doctor specializing in male TRT, and if possible have with you a medical summary from your doctor back home.

[h90]

Just a slight tangent because this topic is quite interesting for me at present, as I consider beginning TRT. There has been at least one piece of literature suggesting that the whole "TRT exacerbates prostate cancer" argument is fanciful. One article (link below) claims that evidence used to support the argument is ancient and badly mis-read. See:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/dec2008_Destroying-the-Myth-about-Testosterone-Replacement-Prostate-Cancer_01.htm

The researcher rejecting the TRT / prostate link is quite an eminent academic, so his article is worth considering seriously. As yet I have not searched to see if there is any good subsequent literature supporting either view.

There are a lot bodybuilder who use 10 times the normal amounts over decades and there it is discussed if it maybe or maybe not increases the risk and there is no real evidence. So if you only replace the normal levels the risk will be even lower.

And if you risk of prostate cancer increase from 1 in 10.000 to 3 in 10.000 you can live with it.....

[rhythmworx]

According to Tim Ward the majority of the stuff the pharmacies sell is fake.

Get it in your home country before you go,

[h90]

According to Tim Ward the majority of the stuff the pharmacies sell is fake.

Get it in your home country before you go,

I doubt that....

[ClutchClark]

According to Tim Ward the majority of the stuff the pharmacies sell is fake.

Get it in your home country before you go,

I doubt that....

I don't.

[GaryB1263]

According to Tim Ward the majority of the stuff the pharmacies sell is fake.

Get it in your home country before you go,

I doubt that....

I don't.

Ridiculous. Testosterone Depot is straight From Bayer in Germany. After 30+ years of HRT I can say this with absolute certainty.