2m to spend & I have a short-list

[WarpSpeed]

"2m new is doable, 2m ex demo or very lightly used 2nd hand is a decent budget for sure. Sure, you can get a Japanese alternative for close to 1m, but it is literally about half the car as well"

I agree to disagree with your reasoning here. So if 1 mln Baht can by 165 hp like the top spec Mazda 3 for instance then which manufacturer offers twice the interior space and, 340 hp and even more features besides lane departure warning system, rear vehicle monitoring, smart city brake support, navigation, HUD, you name it.. Some of ze german manufacturers don't offer these features on 3 m Baht cars..

What jap car offers all that equipment and 340hp?

Several...........................................

In Japan....................

[worldfun]

haha in japan

[steveromagnino]

"2m new is doable, 2m ex demo or very lightly used 2nd hand is a decent budget for sure. Sure, you can get a Japanese alternative for close to 1m, but it is literally about half the car as well"

I agree to disagree with your reasoning here. So if 1 mln Baht can by 165 hp like the top spec Mazda 3 for instance then which manufacturer offers twice the interior space and, 340 hp and even more features besides lane departure warning system, rear vehicle monitoring, smart city brake support, navigation, HUD, you name it.. Some of ze german manufacturers don't offer these features on 3 m Baht cars..

What jap car offers all that equipment and 340hp?

And I would add as per my original statement, for 1m baht.

The Mazda new 3 series is a pretty impressive car, genuinely new model, impressive specs. If I was in the market for a standard sedan it would be up there, except Mazda resale in the past hasn't been so hot. It's a bit hard to tell, is it a dual clutch or a slush box, and if slush box I presume not a ZF transmission? Also, 165HP isn't really quite up there for that size of car, maybe a little modification would bring it up to speed; interior still isn't there quite yet (Lexus is the gold standard for a quality Japanese car) to match a Euro car...but no doubt it's great value for money. Anyhow, OP did state he didn't want a Japanese car anyhow, but point taken this is a step beyond the Toyota, Honda, etc at that price point (as a new model).

Interior space is obviously irrelevant; Porsche Cayman has zero space, and is 6X the cost of a Mazda 3.

[IMHO]

Steve, a very thorough informative post. VW in Thailand are a strange case, I wonder how they expect their dealers to survive with just two models to sell. Their marketing in LOS has been seriously lacking for a while, remember the ordinary little SUV, the Tiguan they tried to sell for 3M baht. Some versions of the Passat had odd pricing as well.

As you say, the Scirocco and Golf are much more suitably priced but they are not likely to sell in big numbers. If the VW plant goes ahead in Thailand, presumably they will target exports and/or models suitable for larger volume locally. VW certainly has plenty of experience selling cheap mass market cars in China etc. Maybe Toyota and Honda should be worried, if VW gets a dealer network sorted out!

I'm curious what profile tyres you have on 21 inch rims. I suspect you must be good at spotting pot holes.

Another delegation of VW exec's did the tour recently, and it's now heavily rumored they have signed up for eco-car phase 2..

[sjonburi]

Not familiar with the exact details of eco car phase 2 but it seems that if they decide to manufacture locally, the domestic market likely only see the Up or Polo instead of the Golf / Jetta / Passat? What's your take about parts supply chains which are predominantly "by Japanese for Japanese"

Another delegation of VW exec's did the tour recently, and it's now heavily rumored they have signed up for eco-car phase 2..

[IMHO]

Not familiar with the exact details of eco car phase 2 but it seems that if they decide to manufacture locally, the domestic market likely only see the Up or Polo instead of the Golf / Jetta / Passat? What's your take about parts supply chains which are predominantly "by Japanese for Japanese"

Another delegation of VW exec's did the tour recently, and it's now heavily rumored they have signed up for eco-car phase 2..

Almost certain initial production will be the Up! - it's the only model in their portfolio that meets the eco2 requirements at the right price point. One would also assume the Amarok (currently imported for 2M Baht) wouldn't be too far behind, seeing as TH is still the largest market for compact pickups. These two segments alone account for around 3/4's of Thai sales, so a very good place to start..

As for politics, VW execs are all too aware of it all (esp. being #1 in China), and the rumor mill suggests that has been a major consideration to them entering the country in the past. One can only assume that if they have indeed committed to spending 6.5B Baht, they have confidence they can secure a reliable supply chain.

[keemapoot]

Not familiar with the exact details of eco car phase 2 but it seems that if they decide to manufacture locally, the domestic market likely only see the Up or Polo instead of the Golf / Jetta / Passat? What's your take about parts supply chains which are predominantly "by Japanese for Japanese"

Another delegation of VW exec's did the tour recently, and it's now heavily rumored they have signed up for eco-car phase 2..

One would also assume the Amarok (currently imported for 2M Baht) wouldn't be too far behind, seeing as TH is still the largest market for compact pickups. These two segments alone account for around 3/4's of Thai sales, so a very good place to start..

The Amarok scored nearly as high as the Ranger in this all brands pickup comparison out of Oz last year. Sounds like a nice addition to the pickup scene, as it, together with the Ranger and BT-50 give the best car-like driving experiences (if you're looking for that sort of thing).

* apologies to OP for straying off-topic.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/249408/ute-comparison-ford-ranger-v-holden-colorado-v-isuzu-d-max-v-mazda-bt-50-v-mitsubishi-triton-v-nissan-navara-v-toyota-hilux-v-volkswagen-amarok/

Edited April 4, 2014 by keemapoot

[IMHO]

* apologies to OP for straying off-topic.

Well, OP is spending 2M, and that's what the Amarok currently costs

[TramsRepus]

I normally just read the comments and never post but once I read this, I registered as it is a topic close to my heart so this is my first post.

Have been thinking hard about what car to buy when I move permanently to Thailand later in the year

Have a similar budget, could go more at a push. Depreciation not an issue assuming I make the right choice first time. Like German cars but they are pricey in the Thai market and this price tends to get the lower end of their range. If I went for a BMW would like the X3 but over budget mentioned

So my inclination is for a small SUV: good higher driving position, higher ground clearance for dealing with crappy roads and floods and they are reasonably well built and equipped for the Thai market

So Mazda CX5, Honda CRV and Subaru XV or Forester are what grabs my interest. Actual preference is for the Subarus which are rugged natural AWD with a strong and loyal following in some other markets but in Thailand no one buys them so I guess I will be boring and go for the CRV

However if someone can persuade me to go for one of the saloons/hatchbacks suggested by the OP I may think again

If you can extend your budget to 2.44M, add the Benz GLA to your list of SUV's...

Hmm... GLA looks interesting.. Does anyone knows the delivery time on a GLA?

[IMHO]

I normally just read the comments and never post but once I read this, I registered as it is a topic close to my heart so this is my first post.

Have been thinking hard about what car to buy when I move permanently to Thailand later in the year

Have a similar budget, could go more at a push. Depreciation not an issue assuming I make the right choice first time. Like German cars but they are pricey in the Thai market and this price tends to get the lower end of their range. If I went for a BMW would like the X3 but over budget mentioned

So my inclination is for a small SUV: good higher driving position, higher ground clearance for dealing with crappy roads and floods and they are reasonably well built and equipped for the Thai market

So Mazda CX5, Honda CRV and Subaru XV or Forester are what grabs my interest. Actual preference is for the Subarus which are rugged natural AWD with a strong and loyal following in some other markets but in Thailand no one buys them so I guess I will be boring and go for the CRV

However if someone can persuade me to go for one of the saloons/hatchbacks suggested by the OP I may think again

If you can extend your budget to 2.44M, add the Benz GLA to your list of SUV's...

Hmm... GLA looks interesting.. Does anyone knows the delivery time on a GLA?

We were told 6 months, that may have gone up now as it's been on sale for a few weeks already.

[Scotssing]

I normally just read the comments and never post but once I read this, I registered as it is a topic close to my heart so this is my first post.

Have been thinking hard about what car to buy when I move permanently to Thailand later in the year

Have a similar budget, could go more at a push. Depreciation not an issue assuming I make the right choice first time. Like German cars but they are pricey in the Thai market and this price tends to get the lower end of their range. If I went for a BMW would like the X3 but over budget mentioned

So my inclination is for a small SUV: good higher driving position, higher ground clearance for dealing with crappy roads and floods and they are reasonably well built and equipped for the Thai market

So Mazda CX5, Honda CRV and Subaru XV or Forester are what grabs my interest. Actual preference is for the Subarus which are rugged natural AWD with a strong and loyal following in some other markets but in Thailand no one buys them so I guess I will be boring and go for the CRV

However if someone can persuade me to go for one of the saloons/hatchbacks suggested by the OP I may think again

If you can extend your budget to 2.44M, add the Benz GLA to your list of SUV's...

Hmm... GLA looks interesting.. Does anyone knows the delivery time on a GLA?

Thanks for drawing our attention to this. I checked out the Mercedes web site and a few reviews and YouTube videos and it seems a bit classier than the normal A class. However they only seem to have one version in Thailand and no AWD. Does anyone know where the ones for the Thai market will be made?

[inzman]

If you want reliability why are you looking at BMW? Look at Honda or Toyota.

[Jitar]

Why would lack of AWD be a disadvantage?

[BSJ]

Non of these cars seem exciting! Ok, there have been mention of Porsche and Lamborghini....and MB, but their not 2m cars.

Maybe the suggestion of buying an ex-demo or super low mileage usedy could get him into something that can produce a smile every mile???

[Scotssing]

Why would lack of AWD be a disadvantage?

Probably not for most people but I would like it. Just a pity one is not given the choice as I believe they do make them with AWD

[triffid]

@OP: No Benz's made your shortlist?

Is there one in my budget? I like the CLA but is that available here at under 2.5m. And even so the competing 320i is available with bmw's 5 year free maintenance, which is not to be sneezed at.

GLA? Haven't looked that much into it.

[triffid]

Only thing I can think of adding that no one has already is the Toyota gt86 for 2.3m

Think this is a great drivers car, if underpowered, as is its twin the Subaru BRZ

However wonder about its suitability for Thai country roads. Also especially if you bought the bright orange one, would you as a farang driving what looks like a flashy sports car be a target for being stopped by every passing policeman. I have at times toyed with the idea of getting one of these

And as I mentioned in my original post, more understatement less showiness is what I'm looking for.

[triffid]

Only thing I can think of adding that no one has already is the Toyota gt86 for 2.3m

Think this is a great drivers car, if underpowered, as is its twin the Subaru BRZ

However wonder about its suitability for Thai country roads. Also especially if you bought the bright orange one, would you as a farang driving what looks like a flashy sports car be a target for being stopped by every passing policeman. I have at times toyed with the idea of getting one of these

And as I mentioned in my original post, more understatement less showiness is what I'm looking for.

I just looked at the gt86 - didn't know it before. Thoroughly impressed. And not all that flashy. Is that 2.3m official? Will look into it.

[triffid]

I would add a little to this, FPhuket and I have had this conversation a few times.

Your first big choice is buying grey or buying official dealer; grey is a little cheaper upfront and sells a little cheap in the back end, official dealer is only worthwhile where you get a proper maintenance deal (which is why Benz has such a struggle with grey as it offers zero maintenance you pay for everything when you drive off the lot).

According to recent news, VW are looking to open production in Thailand, which would have a substantial effect on the popularity of MQB platform VW Golfs/etc - I am not sure they would build Sciroccos here. I believe this may be part of the reason why Thaiyarnyon have had issues getting hold of VW stock in the last 12 months. I do not believe it would substantially change the prices of VW as it is pretty well priced now. That's also at least 3 years away IMHO to build a factory, train, produce.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-04-01/vw-said-to-consider-setting-up-its-first-car-factory-in-Thailand

APR, MTM, and a few other VAG tuners are here, dead easy to crank power up in the VW/Audi/Skoda family with a simple tune as is usually the case with turbo/twinscroll engines.

Issue is that Golf is a mark 6 (Europe/USA is up to mark 7), and the Scirocco is now facelifted, so if paying full retail, you would be best looking for the facelifted Scirocco, which has a few worthwhile changes (hatch handle on the rear hatch, daytime running lights, etc) or get a 2nd hand golf or ex demo Roc, the Rocs are very well priced 2nd hand (around 1.3-1.5m for a low mileage one that has been tuned).

Modified http://www.taladrod.com/w20/Search/CarDet40.aspx?cib=1380222

Std http://www.taladrod.com/w20/Search/CarDet40.aspx?cib=1383101

VW Thailand (Thai Yarnyon) never brought in the 3 doors, only the 5 door golfs, so the current market avability is mostly 2nd hand or ex demo, and 5 doors. Some good buying for a grey market 3 door around the place though. They still drive very, very well. I like the looks of the Roc myself.

VW Thailand offer the same as BSI on new cars from them up to 75,000km/3 years, so maybe you can find a prefacelift Roc in stock ex demo that has 5,000km on it around 1.9m, and they will give you 3 years of maintenance. the main changes from there is a tune from APR or MTM (around 60,000b) and a set of lowering springs to correct the odd ride height (it sits too high IMHO) - price should end up < 2m. If you want to crank up the performance, change the air intake and the exhaust and install boom sounds.

The BMW 2 series is available but at around 2.7m baht, so that makes the Mspec 116 series with a Hartge tune a little more attractive perhaps; not really a drivers car in either spec due to the lack of power, but maybe ok. 1 and 2 series a lot less common (and therefore IMHO a little cooler) than the ubiquitous 3 series. the VWs will 'tear a BMW a new one' in every level unless you are going for bigger power variant, most of which are not available here (e.g. the 135 which is a super super car). BMW has that rear wheel drive drift thing going, but for drifting, I personally believe you want power, so that's why a tune is needed for the more base models. Note that the tune may void aspects of BSI.

BMW 320 is really again a bit of a granddad car now that the 4 series is out, for a decent spec one such as the 328 you are looking closer to 3m. 4 series is way beyond your price range.

The Benz A250/CLA are both 2.49/2.65m baht - FWD and a dual clutch that is no where as good as the VW. I'd cross this off your list.

The Volvo V40 is less performance in the corners, but has excellent power in the straight line, and is a relative bargain at around 1.7m, in polestar blue its a bit less common that the BMW 3 also which is nice. Also includes maintenance like BSI. Not sure how popular the Volvo is in the north as a brand (for servicing). Sadly no polestar or Heico (authorised by Volvo) performance mods to the T5 V40 available in Thailand, only body kit wheel type stuff.

Audi the only real option is an A1, which is either the poxy 122HP version (waste of time) or the pretty cool 185HP twinscroll one, however the decent spec one is only available grey, and around 2.6m at a guess. Servicing might be difficult. Skoda is a great price (same motor as the A1) but again, servicing would be the issue, plus it looks a bit 'off' from the outside (inside I like it).

Grey market Mini GP (if you want the best performance) is around 2.5-2.6m, and that's the single best bang for buck - however it's not as cool as the original 2006 GP nor is it the latest model F56 (which just came out) - Minis hold their value quite well here and are very popular; F56 is around 2.65m for the new Cooper S and that includes maintenance 3 years. Manual also, which is a lot of fun, but makes 2nd hand a bit of a pain.

Fiat Abarth is another option, more in the Mini 'mincing Euro spec' camp, but not a bad price, around 2.4m, mostly only available grey, you can get the 185HP 695 Fiat Tributo Ferrari lightly used for around 1.8m for a 1-2 year old car; Empire Motorsports (Maserati) can service them - did consider one of these (an Abarth esseesse 165HP one for 1.15m baht 2nd hand) recently - great value for money but a bit of a gokart even more so than a Mini. Anyone who says that FWD is not fun has not driven a Roc, Mini or Fiat for sure. Great around the eastern seaboard for sure - not sure if Fiat has servicing in the north though which would be a deal breaker.

2m new is doable, 2m ex demo or very lightly used 2nd hand is a decent budget for sure. Sure, you can get a Japanese alternative for close to 1m, but it is literally about half the car as well, the decent variants of the Japanese cars (and I love the Japanese tuner scene) simply aren't available here or are close to Euro prices anyhow and mostly grey. That said the facelifted Honda civic does look pretty awesome, except the 5 speed transmission from years ago is a bit aging.

If looking at taladrod if you cannot read thai, sometimes the really low prices are because that's selling the downpayment, and you still have to pay the finance payments, FYI.

As my new car has 21 inch rims, I am not sure I would quite agree with the concerns of others regarding 17s, definitely it is however worthwhile driving a little more conservatively with big rims to avoid big holes, so far have never flat spotted or damaged a large rim driving in Thailand (total of almost 1m kms) but not so much of that has been upcountry, and I slow down a LOT when I see potholes.

Thanks very much for this wide-ranging and very helpful post. I've still to digest it and in any case will be referring back to it more than once, I'm sure. If I wanted to focus on a demo or 1-year old scirocco or gti is there a centralised place/number to ask - I mean is there a single thai agent? If there is a showroom in Chiangmai can I not assume that the servicing will be fine since it's to such a degree computerised? Do I infer from your post that vw have a comparable maintenance deal to bmw's? If you ignore the image issue (grandad/ubiquitous/etc) would you say the 320i is good 'bang for the buck'? I rule out the Mini because it's too much a youngster's car here and I ain't a youngster - even if I wish I were.

Thanks again, and hope you won't mind if I come back to pick your brains/experience.

[worldfun]

"would you say the 320i is good 'bang for the buck'?"

I would say perhaps, but 320d is even better

[IMHO]

@OP: No Benz's made your shortlist?

Is there one in my budget? I like the CLA but is that available here at under 2.5m. And even so the competing 320i is available with bmw's 5 year free maintenance, which is not to be sneezed at.

GLA? Haven't looked that much into it.

http://www.mercedes-benz.co.th/content/media_library/thailand/mpc_thailand/EN_NG/Pricelist/Pricelist_pdf.object-Single-MEDIA.download.tmp/Mercedes-BenzThailandPricelistW02_03_2014Th.pdf

[TramsRepus]

The Thai version of GLA interior will not be near as cool as this one below presented at http://newcar2thai.com last June...

[OMGImInPattaya]

The Thai version of GLA interior will not be near as cool as this one below presented at http://newcar2thai.com last June...

That's cool...looks like something Detroit put out in the 70's!

[Aldebaran1981]

how about considering the toyota gt-86? looks brilliant, i believe it drives brilliant too

[Scotssing]

how about considering the toyota gt-86? looks brilliant, i believe it drives brilliant too

Saw a Subaru BRZ, its sister car, in Tukcom multi story yesterday, all black. Looked really good and actually less ostentatious than I thought. Tempted....

Not sure about the GLA. There is a short review in What Car this month. I know the OP has a preference for the German brands. For me the Japanese build quality and give you more for your buck. I guess everyone has their own preference. If I really wanted a German car guess I would go for the BMWX3 but it is way over the budget being discussed

[keemapoot]

The Thai version of GLA interior will not be near as cool as this one below presented at http://newcar2thai.com last June...

Looks cool, but not sure I like those built-in automatic Japanese toilets. Where's the flush button?

[Aldebaran1981]

how about considering the toyota gt-86? looks brilliant, i believe it drives brilliant too

Saw a Subaru BRZ, its sister car, in Tukcom multi story yesterday, all black. Looked really good and actually less ostentatious than I thought. Tempted....

Not sure about the GLA. There is a short review in What Car this month. I know the OP has a preference for the German brands. For me the Japanese build quality and give you more for your buck. I guess everyone has their own preference. If I really wanted a German car guess I would go for the BMWX3 but it is way over the budget being discussed

the brz is sweet too.

however, i think the toyota will be easier to maintain and service in thailand.

[bkkjames]

The Thai version of GLA interior will not be near as cool as this one below presented at http://newcar2thai.com last June...

Looks cool, but not sure I like those built-in automatic Japanese toilets. Where's the flush button?

it's all nice except those chrome looking vents? They make it look cheap (although I am sure they are not).

[triffid]

Must say that comments here which made me do more research and reading up has led to evolution in my original short list.

Bearing in mind my budget, which I've now pushed to 2.5m (if I must), my short list is now refined to

vw scirocco, mini cooper, audi a1 or a3. This is the first tier choice. (But some may be ruled out as outside budget - maybe a demo car?)

toyota gt86, mercedes gal (These are also attractive. I know my choices constitute very different cars but being a single man I can make do with almost anything that appeals - within my means.)

[tua2kee]

If you do decide to get a VW or Audi, avoid the dry clutch 7 speed gearbox. The gearbox model is DQ200. There is a ongoing recall for models equipped with this gearbox.

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