TDRI says corruption in rice scheme exceeds 450 billion baht

[binjalin]

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

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how do you know it's the truth? evidence? investigation? or just believing some academic? I can see she maybe guilty of negligence (as much as Abhisit and all the others) but you are deluded if you think she STOLE the money

let's wait and see before you let your POLITICS influence your judgement?

[Gunna]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that

Obviously PT did and that's why they have been so desperate to stay in power by any means.

Anything to stop the public finding out what a bunch of thieves they are.

[binjalin]

even I agree with basically what you are saying, corruption needs to be ended no matter who is doing it. YL though is in the thick of it, she is pm and head of the rice scheme, doesnt matter how stupid she is, she is the one responsible because she is the one in charge therefore the buck stops with her, just because she never sat in on anything doesnt come into it, she had a responsibility to do the right thing and she didnt. You must also look at what she is doing with her brother, issuing him a passport then refusing to answer to the courts as to why and not revoking it plus allowing a convicted felon to run her political party and tell them what to do, all of this adds up to corruption and again she is the one that is responsible as she is the leader, if she cannot accept the blame then she should not be the pm and their leader, she has no one to blame but herself.

well ok then let Suthep answer to HIS charges? and Abhisit? and what about Red Bull Boy? and all the rest??? my point is don't involve POLITICS corrupt IS corrupt, murder is murder - condemn it ALL

Reform??? YES start with the judicial system (bring in law of precedent, bring in juries and bring in justice for ALL)

[northernjohn]

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

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how do you know it's the truth? evidence? investigation? or just believing some academic? I can see she maybe guilty of negligence (as much as Abhisit and all the others) but you are deluded if you think she STOLE the money

let's wait and see before you let your POLITICS influence your judgement?

Noticed you were the last poster so I jumped rite to it to hear your defence of the lovely lady.

You surprised me admitting she might have been negligent. Which is what the charge is.

didn't surprise me one bit you trying to suck Abhist in to it. You always let your politics into every thing.

Off to read the article.

Have a nice day.

[Gunna]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

for once we are in agreement

I hate all this "it's all there fault" ALL corruption on EITHER side should be exposed - I remember Abhisit was charged with rice corruption too - can't we take the politics OUT of corruption and condemn it ALL?

As usual Binjalin, your posts are full of half truths.

AV was probed ( I prefer investigated ) for 5 years by NACC and they could find anything to charge him with.

No-one here have ever said that the Dems are corruption free ( they wouldn't be Thai and couldn't stand for election ) but what gets most posters upset is the scale of PT's theft and the fact that they keep saying they only did it for the farmers and they needed to keep the books closed from inspection (that alone raised a red flag for ) ,

[Thaiready]

7000 baht per Thai, kids, grannies and non tax paying red shirts included!

How much tax did you pay..????

[keskeseksa]

Another story we won't find in the corporate media run by farangs married to red shirt wives.

[northernjohn]

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Hopefully TDRI will give al the details to NACC.

I think the NACC already has them from other sources.

60% corruption? Looks like double the usual amount. Now it's coming back to bite them on the buttocks.

Not quite half. It has been alleged at approx. 40% since YL took over.


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Afraid not. Corruption has gone up since Yingluck took over. in 2013 it went up 2%. Her give me 6 month speech was taken to heart and used as a time to build more channels to syphon off the Thailand treasury into personal bank accounts. I remember when they were just starting up the scam. They were all ready looking for storage room. My money says the storage room they found can all be traced back to a politician for ownership and the rent payments are always on time.

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

They have not got away with it yet. It is not insanity it is arrogance.

I have no problem believing it is 60% if not more. The PTP have gotten to the point where it is obvious and in your face if you don't like it to bad. Then all of a sudden the grass roots people who they had taken for granted said no we don't like it and we are going to do some thing about it. Hence the current political situation.

[dinooz]

I think the 450 billion baht corruption figure is somewhat low, based on recent audit reports, ( using what little info could be choked out of the 5 ministries/groups involved) Once the shortages, storage, fumigation, police oversight, commerce inventory team cost,finance inventory, Ag bank inventorty, etc is added in, I think it will approach double this figure.

Then try to account for the monies received for what rice has gone out of government stockpile, including pre 2012 harvested rice and you have another nightmare.

The billion dollar question is, where did the 1 billion dollars, returned to the sand rat, pop up from? This government has been shuffling vast sums around since assuming office. What sector of the Thai population was short changed on this transaction?

its no wonder this country is in a mess 450billion thieved from one scheme,now we see why the railways are in a mess,the roads,education ect.ect.ect.and not forgetting the people who work hard every day and got f-all.

I am not sure I get this,450billion baht equals 450,000 million baht is that correct ?

Going on an Australian costing per kilometer of track laying ( site prep,lower ballast,rails and concrete sleepers,upper ballast and tamping) comes in between 80k and 120k so for ease lets use 100k = 3 million baht

Thailand has 5000 klms of track,lets double that for dual tracking and make it 10,000 klms.

Now taking the figure of 3 mill per klm lets double that for corruption and call it 6 million per klm.

So we have 10,000 klms x 6 million = 60,000 million

Maybe the Aussie figures quoted are for easy flat terrain and don't include bridges ,tunnels,culverts, crossings and signaling but it really puts into perspective of what this huge amount of money that has gone missing could have done for the country.

Can someone check my maths as even if we double the figure of 60k mill to 120k still leaves 330,000 million for rolling stock etc. man too many naughts to get my head around.

[rubl]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

for once we are in agreement

I hate all this "it's all there fault" ALL corruption on EITHER side should be exposed - I remember Abhisit was charged with rice corruption too - can't we take the politics OUT of corruption and condemn it ALL?

Taking politics out of corruption? Ms. Yingluck had her government taking care of corruption and she was rather proud of the good results.

Anyway the interesting part here is that the Yingluck government decided to setup a separate 'revolving funds' for the rice price pledging program instead of having it included in the National Budget. Because that was easier, nothing to do with trying to avoid parliamentary scrutiny of course. Now the interesting part is that with 'revolving' funds you take out to make payments and put back in from sales. That's why after 1-1/2 year the government borrowed a wee bit more, and more, till the BAAC had a non-revolving fund of 700++ billion. Then because of the great success the government wanted to borrow 130 billion more to pay some bills. In all it would seem that if all bills are paid the BAAC will be left with that 700++ non-revolving funds. Government guaranteed, so no problem some will have it.

[Humberstone]

even I agree with basically what you are saying, corruption needs to be ended no matter who is doing it. YL though is in the thick of it, she is pm and head of the rice scheme, doesnt matter how stupid she is, she is the one responsible because she is the one in charge therefore the buck stops with her, just because she never sat in on anything doesnt come into it, she had a responsibility to do the right thing and she didnt. You must also look at what she is doing with her brother, issuing him a passport then refusing to answer to the courts as to why and not revoking it plus allowing a convicted felon to run her political party and tell them what to do, all of this adds up to corruption and again she is the one that is responsible as she is the leader, if she cannot accept the blame then she should not be the pm and their leader, she has no one to blame but herself.

well ok then let Suthep answer to HIS charges? and Abhisit? and what about Red Bull Boy? and all the rest??? my point is don't involve POLITICS corrupt IS corrupt, murder is murder - condemn it ALL

Reform??? YES start with the judicial system (bring in law of precedent, bring in juries and bring in justice for ALL)

I agree with you that all corruption should be punished. However, I don't think changing the legal system will make any difference. Many of the countries deemed the least corrupt use a codeified legal system and some of the most corrupt use a common law system.

[Pimay1]

Evrything in Thailand, is just smoke and mirrors. They would have to build more jails. To contain the white collar criminals. But it will never happen.

Spot on clockman. Banyong Pongpanich, chief executive of Kiatnakin Bank said there was “systemic corruption” in many parts of Thailand. Politicians, state officials and companies have formed “clubs” to collude in corruption, while others opposing the method simply leave the competition. The “economic rental costs” that Thailand loses from state procurements in information technology, for example, certainly run over Bt10 billion per year, he claimed.

[rubl]

7000 baht per Thai, kids, grannies and non tax paying red shirts included!

How much tax did you pay..????

None of your bloody business, but legal aliens from Western Europe need to earn at least 50,000 to 60,000 Baht / month to qualify for a work permit.

[Thai at Heart]

I would like to see some flesh on these numbers. Would make some interesting reading because, this means that the farmers would have got paid way less than they did previously.

There is little way for this level of theft i the food chain.

[Old Man River]

60% corruption? Looks like double the usual amount. Now it's coming back to bite them on the buttocks.

Not quite half. It has been alleged at approx. 40% since YL took over.

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Still, Yingluck has raised the benchmark even further now to a minimum of 60% corruption skimming that will be difficult for future administrations to match.

She must be disappointed the infrastructure proposal was squashed as that would have landed the corrupt a staggering 1.3 TRILLION baht.

60% seems high, although it was estimated it would take 50 years to pay it off. I guess if you aren't around to pay it off,might as well get what you can.

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[WhizBang]

60% corruption? Looks like double the usual amount. Now it's coming back to bite them on the buttocks.

Exactly the same as when Thaksin was turfed out the first time. It wasn't that he was corrupt, it was because he was excessively greedy and to over the top for most Thais to ignore.

Yingluck, her cowardly brother and the PTP are all exactly the same. They are excessively greedy, and that is what will bring them all down, hopefully with long jail terms attached.

I just wonder if anyone will try to recover all that lost money?

[bino]

There is always a money trail, but there also must be the will to follow it and to prosecute were guilt is found without any protections afforded to anyone...

Sure- you would think that it would be rather easy to see where the government is somehow "leaking" in excess of a half billion per day and see who and how many have become unusually rich.

But it will never happen.

[virtualtraveller]

I find it far fetched that 60% of the scheme disappeared into corruption since this would mean the farmers would have ended up with no real gain, and they would've complained about that. What this article suggests is that the estimated figure of subsidy, 450 billion, has all disappeared. Lets assume that there was a pre-existing amount of corruption which is part and parcel of any transaction here, but on the flip side, if the govt's control of the money was thorough and the skimming done systematically, then where did all this money end up and even if half of it is now in a PT election slush fund, then 200 billion is a formidable amount. No wonder the Democrats are now refusing to contest elections. This has been grand larceny on the grandest scale!

[boomerangutang]

From the first moment, when rice production and big money was first mentioned in the same paragraph, you knew that there would be a lot of piggies lined up at the trough. Thailand has, for a long time, been a rice-based economy. Ever since money was invented, people have been devising ways to cheat - in order to get as much of it as possible. Every other big-ticket item in Thailand, has cheats and corruption entwined with it.

Not long ago, Thaksin made a pronouncement that the Rice Pledging program was fine, on track, and there were no problems. Even from its inception, the program was shoveling money at already rich millers, as much as (purportedly) the farmers themselves.

Yingluck appeared to want to scrap the program, or at least lessen the amount of handouts, last summer. Instead, she bowed to farmer pressure, and relented. She didn't have the fortitude to scrap a fatally flawed program that was obviously a mess.

It's the same government which brought us $2,200 clocks (instead of Bt.1,500 clocks) and continued purchasing dozens of $17,000 little black boxes, which everyone else knew were completely useless. The wasteful idiots deserve all the punishment they're liable for.

[Thai at Heart]

I find it far fetched that 60% of the scheme disappeared into corruption since this would mean the farmers would have ended up with no real gain, and they would've complained about that. What this article suggests is that the estimated figure of subsidy, 450 billion, has all disappeared. Lets assume that there was a pre-existing amount of corruption which is part and parcel of any transaction here, but on the flip side, if the govt's control of the money was thorough and the skimming done systematically, then where did all this money end up and even if half of it is now in a PT election slush fund, then 200 billion is a formidable amount. No wonder the Democrats are now refusing to contest elections. This has been grand larceny on the grandest scale!

Well this is the problem with these alarmist headlines.

Probably there.is corruption, but losing money with a subsidy is not corruption. They are two different things.

[Dario]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

You've not been in Thailand long enough ...

[slapout]

Very poorly written/translated article (why don't they get a decent proof-reader?), and therefore it would not surprise me if there are elements of this which are wrong due to incorrect interpretation.

Even in Thailand, I don't believe that the figures quoted are possible.

Surprise, surprise, don't blame the proof reader, reporter nor the group presenting figures that have been purposed and put forth by several national groups, internal whistle blowers, and even international agencies, over the past 2 plus years.

When someone tells you they suspect a fire, then you smell the stench of something burning, others tell you they see flames, other groups are tripping the fire alarms even through the sprinkle system is not activated due to incompetence of its installation, and the setting government refuses to call the fire department, please try to be objective in your assisment of the ''rice program as proposrd and implemented'' by the Chairperson and everyone who even got a sniff , much less handled any monies involved.

[Nickymaster]

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

And on what basis do you make the claim? Can you please direct me to the actual evidence that supports the claim? You make your statement because you want to believe the opinion of one man. If you were truly motivated by a sense of justice, you would be asking how this man came to his conclusion.

No problem kid. Let' assume that the figure is only 10% of 450 ie 45 billion that is gone. Still high enough to hang a few people in charge of this

scam.

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[Malone]

I can see she maybe guilty of negligence (as much as Abhisit and all the others)

Still attempting to shift blame away from Yingluck by diluting the blame pool.

There's only one PM and only one Chairwoman of the Rice Policy Committee.

It's her.

[Bluespunk]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

You've not been in Thailand long enough ...

12 years. I am aware that Thai officialdom is corrupt to the core, but I still can't see this figure being correct.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Bluespunk

[billd766]

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

And on what basis do you make the claim? Can you please direct me to the actual evidence that supports the claim? You make your statement because you want to believe the opinion of one man. If you were truly motivated by a sense of justice, you would be asking how this man came to his conclusion.

Just for the moment let me say that I agree with you that 450Bn baht is not missing and there was no corruption.

If that is true then why can the government NOT pay the farmers as there is NO money in the fund and 450 Bn is 3 times what they owe the farmers?

If on the other hand the 450 Bn baht has gone "missing" and there is no money to pay the farmers, WHERE IS THE MONEY?

Please don't try to blame Abhisit, Suthep, the Democrats or the protesters or anyone else. This is 100% to do with the PTP and Yingluck, nobody else.

Why doesn't the PTP open the books of the rice deal from day 1, after all if there is nothing wrong then they must be innocent and everybody else in Thailand and the rest ofthe world must be wrong and I wil apologise to you.

So if you red and PTP supporters want the truth get the books opened and audited by some independent auditors from both within and without Thailand.

[billd766]

Interesting that they offer no evidence. 'Corruption at all levels of the scheme'... So how much was taken at each level? Could we have the figures please? How much was at the government level?

Making unfounded generalised accusations like this he should be on the PRDC stage along with retarded frogs.

But you offer no evidence of anything either.

If there was NO corruption, NO 450Bn baht missing, then why is there no money to pay the farmers?

[billd766]

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

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how do you know it's the truth? evidence? investigation? or just believing some academic? I can see she maybe guilty of negligence (as much as Abhisit and all the others) but you are deluded if you think she STOLE the money

let's wait and see before you let your POLITICS influence your judgement?

Open the books for an audit. If there is no money missing WHY can't they pay the farmers?

[Malone]

Why doesn't the PTP open the books of the rice deal from day 1, after all if there is nothing wrong then they must be innocent and everybody else in Thailand and the rest ofthe world must be wrong and I wil apologise to you.

So if you red and PTP supporters want the truth get the books opened and audited by some independent auditors from both within and without Thailand.

It would expose too many lies, such as this BS that Yingluck was spouting:

Yingluck places importance on transparency and justice

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654338-yingluck-places-importance-on-transparency-and-justice/

[Mister Fixit]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

This is Thailand - of course they are stupid enough to think they can get away with it. After all, who's going to snitch when they all have their snouts in the trough ...?