฿9,000 charge to change from temporary electric supply

[Bandersnatch]

I am not sure if this is the right forum to post this, so mods please feel free to move it.

I have purchased a condo, which has recently been completed. It is fully paid for and I have my blue house book. The electric bill is currently paid to the condo management and they want all owners to change to a new meter so that we deal directly with the electricity company.

A notice has appeared saying: "PEA Government informed us that it is necessary to install earth leakage circuit breakers in every unit" It turns out that the circuit breaker is not installed in the unit (each condo has a consumer unit circuit breaker) it is installed in the electrical room on each floor. The Juristic office have said that this second circuit breaker is a new government requirement and ฿7,000 of the ฿9,000 is a deposit that will be returned if the condo is sold. It is necessary for each owner to sign a power of attorney document to make this happen.

Has anybody heard of this legislation as I can find nothing about it online. Also do members feel that this cost should be borne by the condo developer or condo owner. There is nothing in the contract about this additional charge.

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Edited April 5, 2014 by Bandersnatch

[Forkinhades]

Yes it is required.

More importantly YOU need this device installed for safety!

[Bandersnatch]

Yes it is required.

More importantly YOU need this device installed for safety!

Thanks for the reply Forkinhades, I do not doubt that second circuit breaker would add to safety, but is the cost normally borne by the condo developer or condo owners? ฿9,000 does seem quite expensive.

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[Crossy]

Yes it is required.

More importantly YOU need this device installed for safety!

But installed in the electrical room Forky??

It's certainly a PEA requirement for new connections, but normally in the condo CU so you can reset it when it trips.

Safe-T-Cut RCBOs are not cheap, but 9k to supply and install seems well OTT

[Forkinhades]

^ seems I did not read the post properly.

If you have an SafetyCut on the front end of your distribution board, then you would not need one in a switchroom upstream. What happens if it opens? Access will be a nightmare.

More info please

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[Forkinhades]

Ok reread

I would make sure that you have a SafetyCut on your board. Tell the condo management to do one. Speak to the PEA.

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[Bandersnatch]

^ seems I did not read the post properly.

If you have an SafetyCut on the front end of your distribution board, then you would not need one in a switchroom upstream. What happens if it opens? Access will be a nightmare.

More info please

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Hi Forkinhades. The consumer unit in the condo has multiple zone breakers and a master breaker. The electrical room on my floor is kept locked, so if the breaker there was tripped, you are right it would be a nightmare.

The feeling amongst condo owners is this secondary breaker in the electrical room should be paid for by the developer. I will take your advice and contact PEA

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[Forkinhades]

Can you post a picture of your Distribution Board?

[Forkinhades]

As previously stated make sure your Condo's Distribution Board has a SafetyCut device. This complies with PEA, and will cost about 1500 Baht.

If your condo management insist, you can argue about discrimination, and access to reset device.

Also you could insist on having an 100mA SafetyCut in the Electrical Cupboard set to 5 seconds (these are NOT readily available in Thailand), but will give you discrimination.

You could also argue that the whole installation to the block should be protected by a 3 phase SafetyCut device set to the above parameters.

The case seems to be people not understanding correctly, or they are trying it on.

Where are you BTW?

Keep us informed.

[Bandersnatch]

Can you post a picture of your Distribution Board?

As requested pic attacked.

The condo is in Pratumnak, Pattaya

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[Forkinhades]

You do not have SafetyCut on that board.

So do not comply with PEA.

Speak to your management and PEA, and say you will install SafetyCut in your condo to comply. You are not happy with device in Electrical for reasons given before.

You should be able to get one that replaces the main on the left hand side.

Crossy will advise further when he gets here.

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[Bandersnatch]

So what you are saying is because the unit does not comply. The developer is expecting the condo owners to foot the bill for one that does?

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[Bandersnatch]

Every time there is a power cut the living room/kitchen zone trips and so when the power comes on to the condo, it remains off in the living room/kitchen. We were away for 2 weeks and came back to find the freezer defrosted and all the food ruined.

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[Forkinhades]

When was it built?

[Bandersnatch]

Just finished, in fact they are still working on it.

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[Forkinhades]

Down to the developer then.

[bankruatsteve]

Every time there is a power cut the living room/kitchen zone trips and so when the power comes on to the condo, it remains off in the living room/kitchen. We were away for 2 weeks and came back to find the freezer defrosted and all the food ruined.

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So, of the 11 'zone' breakers, the one for your kitchen trips and none of the others trip when there is a power outage??? Does it trip on main power out or back on? Love to hear somebody 'splain this one.

And, your LR and kitchen are on the same breaker? How are the others zoned? Actually not that important, just seems strange to me.

BTW: The resolution on your photo makes it impossible to see any printing on the breakers.

[Forkinhades]

^ picture is indeed not clear, and the DB does look old for a new installation, albeit with a nice schneider enclosure. The MCB's look dated (probably old stock)

We know that thai sparkies will pull a cable into one room, and connect everything to it.

back to the OP

Do you have test certifcate for the install? which would state compliance?

[Crossy]

You can indeed get RCBO replacements for that Schneider main switch, they are not cheap

It may be easier (and likely cheaper) to get a front end Safe-T-Cut RCBO installed, have a look in the pinned FAQ thread for images of what they look like.

And yes, if it's a new build the developer should pay for a compliant installation.

Test, Forky? Certificate, Forky? Here?

[Forkinhades]

^ Indeed Crossy

Good point for the OP to argue on a new build.

[Bandersnatch]

Been off playing tennis, so sorry for the delay.

I have attached the pic at Max resolution.

The living room has a kitchenette at one end. That zone is the only one that trips when we have a power cut. I hear no sound of the tripping switch when the power comes on. I feel it trips when the power goes out.

No test certificates for the install.

Could I replace the Schneider for less than ฿9,000? That might be a better option than paying for the secondary switch.

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[bankruatsteve]

Well, the tripping kitchen sounds like a problem. And that will not get better with RCBO. If there is issue in the kitchen circuit, an RCBO may not be able to open. Whatever, if the main breaker is 'normal' Schneider, you can get a main RCBO replacement for (to wit) a bit over B2000. That would be easier than putting in a Safety-Cut front end as I don't know where you would put it.

The photo is just a bit better - and for me, it just seems a bit strange, for a condo, that you would have that many circuits configured the way they are.

In any case, your problem is the kitchen tripping. It shouldn't do that - but there must be a reason. Maybe bad breaker? Maybe bad something else. You need to get that sorted out before you do anything else.

[Forkinhades]

If the 'Kitchen Zone' is tripping after a power cut, it sounds like the inrush of the power going back on opens the MCB.

[bankruatsteve]

Just to add... you can easily test the kitchen breaker tripping, by opening your main breaker (same as power out). If that trips your kitchen breaker, something just isn't right - maybe replace that MCB.

[JesseFrank]

Every time there is a power cut the living room/kitchen zone trips and so when the power comes on to the condo, it remains off in the living room/kitchen. We were away for 2 weeks and came back to find the freezer defrosted and all the food ruined.

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Are you sure there was a powercut when you were away, or was it the kitchen zone that tripped from it's own. I find it strange that a powercut could make a breaker trip.

[Bandersnatch]

Thanks for the replies. We had a power cut while I was in the condo and the living room kitchen breaker tripped.

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[Forkinhades]

So your kitchen circuit opened, and you had a blackout.

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[Bandersnatch]

So your kitchen circuit opened, and you had a blackout.

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No, it was the other way around. The building had a power cut and when the power came back on the lights came on in the bedroom, but the fan in the living room was still off. I checked and found that the switch for the kitchen and living room had tripped.

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[arunsakda]

Every time there is a power cut the living room/kitchen zone trips and so when the power comes on to the condo, it remains off in the living room/kitchen. We were away for 2 weeks and came back to find the freezer defrosted and all the food ruined.

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The stench must have been overwhelming.

[Bandersnatch]

Every time there is a power cut the living room/kitchen zone trips and so when the power comes on to the condo, it remains off in the living room/kitchen. We were away for 2 weeks and came back to find the freezer defrosted and all the food ruined.

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The stench must have been overwhelming.

Being a vegetarian, there was no meat in the freezer. Luckily bags of defrosted berries and veggies don't smell too bad. However, there was a pool of red liquid on the floor from the berries, made it look like we had stuffed a body in the freezer

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Edited May 11, 2014 by Bandersnatch