Victory day soon: Suthep

[Publicus]

I'm with both of you on this but my worry is that almost all the politicians (sic) here are either useless, corrupt or in most cases both that the current mess will only be sorted by a spell of military rule. No one wants it, it doesn't put Thailand in a good light but it may be necessary for a while for the sake of the people and the country.

I like it but I do have a reservation. Thailand never did give Abhist a chance.

A minority government dependent on Thaksin trained people.

One man say no we will not support you and 20 seats gone along with his position.

The man had to many cooks in the kitchen. He was not given a chance.

Abhisit had the chance of a lifetime from late 2008 into 2011 and he shit the bed by losing a government the Ammart (to include the army) spent a billion to buy and by blowing an election that was his to lose. Mark Abhisit grew up in the UK and somehow got his head turned around to think like Old Labour did during the 1980s when it looked pathetic and was pathetic against the Iron Lady.

You people need to recognize and realize the Thai people know and aren't going to forget it was Abhisit and Suthep that sent the army out to kill Thais. Democratic governments abroad witnessed Abhisit's ineptness and brutality as PM and have dismissed him as he and his Democrat Party have now been exposed to be ringleaders of the anti-democracy mobs in Bangkok and silently complicit in the judicial and institutional coup currently underway.

Suthep too knows Abhisit is washed up. And Abhisit knows he can't assume a role in the coming Suthep controlled dictatorship that will summarily and arbitrarily imprison hundreds if not thousands, will confiscate assets and estates of citizens, purge Thais from their own country, and have to fight an insurgency against it conducted by fellow Thais.

Mark Abhisit has shown himself to be a weak sister of Thai politics who as PM was unable to keep the peace, unable to sustain himself in office while ultimately demonstrating his severely and terminally limited appeal to the electorate. Even out of office Abhisit lost in a one-on-one debate with a Bangkok voter who stood up at a meeting to demand Abhisit respect his vote. Abhisit exposed himself further in his arrogant response that, “This is an example of reasons why we need reforms,” to which the man retorted, “I am not your rival, I am the people!”

Mark Abhisit recently broke his collarbone due to a fall in his bathroom, which was probably incurred while noticing his shrinking manhood. The doctor however said Mark was lucky because he would have also broken his backbone if he had one.

[Thai at Heart]

I'm with both of you on this but my worry is that almost all the politicians (sic) here are either useless, corrupt or in most cases both that the current mess will only be sorted by a spell of military rule. No one wants it, it doesn't put Thailand in a good light but it may be necessary for a while for the sake of the people and the country.

I like it but I do have a reservation. Thailand never did give Abhist a chance.

A minority government dependent on Thaksin trained people.

One man say no we will not support you and 20 seats gone along with his position.

The man had to many cooks in the kitchen. He was not given a chance.

Abhisit had the chance of a lifetime from late 2008 into 2011 and he shit the bed by losing a government the Ammart (to include the army) spent a billion to buy and by blowing an election that was his to lose. Mark Abhisit grew up in the UK and somehow got his head turned around to think like Old Labour did during the 1980s when it looked pathetic and was pathetic against the Iron Lady.

You people need to recognize and realize the Thai people know and aren't going to forget it was Abhisit and Suthep that sent the army out to kill Thais. Democratic governments abroad witnessed Abhisit's ineptness and brutality as PM and have dismissed him as he and his Democrat Party have now been exposed to be ringleaders of the anti-democracy mobs in Bangkok and silently complicit in the judicial and institutional coup currently underway.

Suthep too knows Abhisit is washed up. And Abhisit knows he can't assume a role in the coming Suthep controlled dictatorship that will summarily and arbitrarily imprison hundreds if not thousands, will confiscate assets and estates of citizens, purge Thais from their own country, and have to fight an insurgency against it conducted by fellow Thais.

Mark Abhisit has shown himself to be a weak sister of Thai politics who as PM was unable to keep the peace, unable to sustain himself in office while ultimately demonstrating his severely and terminally limited appeal to the electorate. Even out of office Abhisit lost in a one-on-one debate with a Bangkok voter who stood up at a meeting to demand Abhisit respect his vote. Abhisit exposed himself further in his arrogant response that, This is an example of reasons why we need reforms, to which the man retorted, I am not your rival, I am the people!

Mark Abhisit recently broke his collarbone due to a fall in his bathroom, which was probably incurred while noticing his shrinking manhood. The doctor however said Mark was lucky because he would have also broken his backbone if he had one.

Bravo

[Mrgk]

I have yet to see anything even remotely as corrupt as the opposition are displaying. I count a concerted and unconstitutional attempt to abolish democracy in order to usher a minority (again) into power as a form of corruption of the highest order - and we all have plain evidence of that.

Ridiculous! Coups, sabotaging elections and violating laws from A-Z is merely a sign of civic engagement - not of corruption. Now, on the other hand, vague accusations of "negligence", land purchases, cooking shows, attempting to implement an elected senate (as in the pre-coup constitution), or transfering a national security official - THAT is truly heinous corruption of the highest order.

Welcome to Scamperland!

Edited April 6, 2014 by Mrgk

[Tokay]

Blah, blah, blah... blah, blah, blah.

[binjalin]

I've maintained all along that Abhisit is the man to lead Thailand forwards, he just needs to put himself out there a bit more, he's way back there in Sutheps shadow, he needs to find that torch and lead from the front.

I'm afraid not... I think Abhisit is, actually, a decent guy but... he suffers from a set of glaring weakness:

procrastination, indecision and weak leadership

"cometh the hour, dither and goeth the man"

sums Abhisit up

he had a brilliant chance to shine when he gained power through the backdoor yet let it slip away

NOW he dithers about elections when he could have gained votes (not won but gained votes) yet he chose to play the "I can't win so I won't play" card and that will cost him huge reputational damage as a weak leader and THAT coupled with his unhealthy attachment to the Ammart ensures defeat UNTIL the Dems break free of their elite shackles

[Old Man River]

I am curious. Given what we have seen from Thaksin and his clones' cabinet, isn't it the same corruption, but different people? Corruption is corruption. What does it matter how you pronounce your name? The issue is how much you allow, and what you do to the people that trust you.

Answer me this, if you are capable, why wasn't repayment of the farmers budgeted before the protests?

FIrst you'll have to show me proof - I said proof - of Thaksin's alleged corruption beyond that trumped up by right-wing kangaroo courts, right-wing anti-Thaksin indoctrination and right-wing hear-say. I have yet to see anything even remotely as corrupt as the opposition are displaying. I count a concerted and unconstitutional attempt to abolish democracy in order to usher a minority (again) into power as a form of corruption of the highest order - and we all have plain evidence of that.

Just in case you still don't get the simple logic: the budgetting of the agricultural subsidy is irrelevant to this discussion if the majority of voters still support the government. We have to respect the majority's opinion more than that of a ranting minority if we consider all humans fundamentally equal. The right-wing in Thailand clearly does not. The government's performance may well be lamentable on the agricultural subsidy issue and other issues. But all governments, even the best of them, screw up. The only important point is that if they screw up enough, they can be voted out. Voted, not forced.

Anyway, to repeat: the current turmoil is not about ending corruption. That's pie in the sky. All those who fall for it are victims of a very insidious and worrying form of indoctrination.

If you lose an election, try harder next time. There' s nothing more to be said.

You use the same old tired tactics to get around a simple question that you can't answer. So, I will help you out and make it simpler:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet budget to pay back all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited April 7, 2014 by Old Man River

[Kooweerup]

You are a moron Suthep, a laughing stock to the world.

[Old Man River]

I've maintained all along that Abhisit is the man to lead Thailand forwards, he just needs to put himself out there a bit more, he's way back there in Sutheps shadow, he needs to find that torch and lead from the front.

I'm afraid not... I think Abhisit is, actually, a decent guy but... he suffers from a set of glaring weakness:

procrastination, indecision and weak leadership

"cometh the hour, dither and goeth the man"

sums Abhisit up

he had a brilliant chance to shine when he gained power through the backdoor yet let it slip away

NOW he dithers about elections when he could have gained votes (not won but gained votes) yet he chose to play the "I can't win so I won't play" card and that will cost him huge reputational damage as a weak leader and THAT coupled with his unhealthy attachment to the Ammart ensures defeat UNTIL the Dems break free of their elite shackles

I agree with your comments, his weakness shown further by taking the bad advice he was given. He should have understood that Thailand has changed and not followed the old, tired advice he was given. Korn showed he had backbone by keeping touch with what is going on via TeamKorn, but not openly supporting Aphisit, despite their friendship.

In Thai politics, if it doesn't make sense, then congratulations, you are starting to understand.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[dwcrist]

What a loon! What makes him the "people's medium"? Maybe "his small group of people's medium". The majority of Thais hate him and his party and he doesn't want elections to happen because he knows it. His "reforms" probably involve disqualifying from voting anyone who ever voted against the Dems. Thats the only way they could win an election, (if they ever hold one again).

[ddavidovsky]

You use the same old tired tactics to get around a simple question that you can't answer. So, I will help you out and make it simpler:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet budget to pay back all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

I assume incompetence until I see proof of serious and systematic corruption. Trumping up allegations of corruption is what political opponents do across Asia. It gets rather tedious. Truth is, every government is incompetent and corrupt to a degree. In a democractic system that is lamentable. Without democracy, it is catastrophic.

The point is still this: if the voters think the government is too incompetent or too corrupt, they still have the option to vote them out. The current insurrection aims to remove that option.

In any case, it seems necessary to have to repeat: the current insurrection is not about eradicating corruption. Corruption will be part of the Thai system until decades of economic growth allows levels of taxation that will fund reasonable salaries for all civil servants.

For that, self-regulating, progressive democracy is what is needed. The last thing the country needs is a right-wing dictatorship representing an influential minority who feel entitled to the biggest cut of the pie. That's the best recipe for godzilla levels of corruption and a closed society that tells everyone what they can and cannot think.

[Old Man River]

You use the same old tired tactics to get around a simple question that you can't answer. So, I will help you out and make it simpler:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet budget to pay back all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

I assume incompetence until I see proof of serious and systematic corruption. Trumping up allegations of corruption is what political opponents do across Asia. It gets rather tedious. Truth is, every government is incompetent and corrupt to a degree. In a democractic system that is lamentable. Without democracy, it is catastrophic.

The point is still this: if the voters think the government is too incompetent or too corrupt, they still have the option to vote them out. The current insurrection aims to remove that option.

In any case, it seems necessary to have to repeat: the current insurrection is not about eradicating corruption. Corruption will be part of the Thai system until decades of economic growth allows levels of taxation that will fund reasonable salaries for all civil servants.

For that, self-regulating, progressive democracy is what is needed. The last thing the country needs is a right-wing dictatorship representing an influential minority who feel entitled to the biggest cut of the pie. That's the best recipe for godzilla levels of corruption and a closed society that tells everyone what they can and cannot think.

I appreciate your thoughts on corruption. We are discussing separate things. Your thoughts on corruption are similar to mine. We have nothing to discuss here. I have only one simple question, and since you are a person of opinion, please answer:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet not budget to pay all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Publicus]

You use the same old tired tactics to get around a simple question that you can't answer. So, I will help you out and make it simpler:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet budget to pay back all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

I assume incompetence until I see proof of serious and systematic corruption. Trumping up allegations of corruption is what political opponents do across Asia. It gets rather tedious. Truth is, every government is incompetent and corrupt to a degree. In a democractic system that is lamentable. Without democracy, it is catastrophic.

The point is still this: if the voters think the government is too incompetent or too corrupt, they still have the option to vote them out. The current insurrection aims to remove that option.

In any case, it seems necessary to have to repeat: the current insurrection is not about eradicating corruption. Corruption will be part of the Thai system until decades of economic growth allows levels of taxation that will fund reasonable salaries for all civil servants.

For that, self-regulating, progressive democracy is what is needed. The last thing the country needs is a right-wing dictatorship representing an influential minority who feel entitled to the biggest cut of the pie. That's the best recipe for godzilla levels of corruption and a closed society that tells everyone what they can and cannot think.

I appreciate your thoughts on corruption. We are discussing separate things. Your thoughts on corruption are similar to mine. We have nothing to discuss here. I have only one simple question, and since you are a person of opinion, please answer:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet not budget to pay all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Cornering a market on commodities has been tried before. Normally, it is a failure, and then smart people cut bait and run.YL's government tried, failed, and then, instead of admitting failure, tried to hide it. It is a global commodity. You can't hide it.

This is completely separate from alleged corruption. That is up to the NACC and the Senate to deliberate over. My comments have nothing to do with corruption, but rather payment under promised populist policies. Once failing, and hiding it, it appears that the current caretaker government, prior to the protests and becoming a caretaker government, never budgeted to pay all the farmers. Some are, apparently, owed since 2011!

After promising to pay farmers under the main populist policy, how can YL's government default and expect prudent people, other than some on TV, to not understand that they never meant to pay 100% of the farmers they promised to pay?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

"After promising to pay farmers under the main populist policy, how can YL's government default and expect prudent people, other than some on TV, to not understand that they never meant to pay 100% of the farmers they promised to pay?"

I'm not sure I'd agree entirely with the reason you offer, but you yourself do offer a reason which may or may not have truth. You might be reading minds, which would make your reason highly subjective, or you might have specific and concrete evidence of an intent to evade, deceive or possibly worse, I don't know which because I haven't seen you present any of either - but I may have missed something along the line here.

You also state Incompetence and corruption are given. This is the view shared by many posters of differing views and many among us have said so specifically, consistently. You've made your point in these respects, if not the whole of the case you say exists, as have many other posters. So I don't see why any among the corps of posters should have to engage in mind reading as it is your point to make and to argue.

Given that there is general and broad agreement in the matters of incompetence and corruption, other reasons such as evasion and deceit, and/or cynical manipulation in the run up to the election, could be involved. All in all however I see incompetence and corruption, which is more than enough for me.

[ddavidovsky]

I appreciate your thoughts on corruption. We are discussing separate things. Your thoughts on corruption are similar to mine. We have nothing to discuss here. I have only one simple question, and since you are a person of opinion, please answer:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet not budget to pay all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

I have already indulged your question with my own opinion: incompetence: the government apparently did not properly forecast the revenues relating to the agricultural subsidy. I assume that before I assume corruption, which is what I presume you are getting at. If I were a voter, this incompetence may indeed worry me enough to make me vote for the opposition. However, there is currently no credible democratic opposition in Thailand, and some democracy is better than no democracy.

Now perhaps you will now indulge us and present the documentary evidence you have relating to the agricultural subsidy figures, which I will study with interest.

[ikke]

That reads like Suthep was having an out of body experience.

Was he really talking about the PDRC appointing a leader and returning democracy to the people? Was he having a senior moment when he talked about the people supporting his committee because they were sick of s lack of democracy.

I think he is starting to talk in tongues.

well I guess it depends which side of the fence you are sitting on

One mans trash is another mans treasure

I also have my opinions but they have no basis, same as you in Thailand

I feel Suthep has no right to chose a caretaker PM, but the People do

But as I have a Thai wife I can give my opinions to her, and she can act on my behalf

The only think we have at the moment is that the courts may decide Yingluck is corrupt and make a start to a new Reform for Thailand

On the other side Thaiskin only chance is blood shed for the Thai people by violence and pray we have a coup so he can blame this on the army

TVF members now have a choice

stand for the law and the courts

Or back violence because of this made up democracy by the ballot box

Just my opinion

IF Yingluck is found corrupt and have to step down, than the only way is elections, The red's would win again, and all starts over........

You know why the red's would win again, because Thai's know very well Suthep is even more corrupt than Yingluck, and he really act's as a fascist .

[Old Man River]

I appreciate your thoughts on corruption. We are discussing separate things. Your thoughts on corruption are similar to mine. We have nothing to discuss here. I have only one simple question, and since you are a person of opinion, please answer:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet not budget to pay all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

I have already indulged your question with my own opinion: incompetence: the government apparently did not properly forecast the revenues relating to the agricultural subsidy. I assume that before I assume corruption, which is what I presume you are getting at. If I were a voter, this incompetence may indeed worry me enough to make me vote for the opposition. However, there is currently no credible democratic opposition in Thailand, and some democracy is better than no democracy.

Now perhaps you will now indulge us and present the documentary evidence you have relating to the agricultural subsidy figures, which I will study with interest.

I have gone back and read my original post as well as yours and you are obviously confusing me with someone else. If you want documentary evidence, contact the NACC.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited April 7, 2014 by Old Man River

[Old Man River]

That reads like Suthep was having an out of body experience.

Was he really talking about the PDRC appointing a leader and returning democracy to the people? Was he having a senior moment when he talked about the people supporting his committee because they were sick of s lack of democracy.

I think he is starting to talk in tongues.

well I guess it depends which side of the fence you are sitting on

One mans trash is another mans treasure

I also have my opinions but they have no basis, same as you in Thailand

I feel Suthep has no right to chose a caretaker PM, but the People do

But as I have a Thai wife I can give my opinions to her, and she can act on my behalf

The only think we have at the moment is that the courts may decide Yingluck is corrupt and make a start to a new Reform for Thailand

On the other side Thaiskin only chance is blood shed for the Thai people by violence and pray we have a coup so he can blame this on the army

TVF members now have a choice

stand for the law and the courts

Or back violence because of this made up democracy by the ballot box

Just my opinion

IF Yingluck is found corrupt and have to step down, than the only way is elections, The red's would win again, and all starts over........

You know why the red's would win again, because Thai's know very well Suthep is even more corrupt than Yingluck, and he really act's as a fascist .

That is not why the PTP would win again, regardless of who is or isn't more corrupt. Thaksin was the first PM to buck the system and think of those upcountry. He has named YL his clone, so even if she cannot run anymore, whoever Thaksin nominates next will be the likely winner. It has little to do with Suthep, although he certainly hasn't done anything to win the hearts of the majority of Thai's and neither has Aphisit. Sadly.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[bigbamboo]

I've maintained all along that Abhisit is the man to lead Thailand forwards, he just needs to put himself out there a bit more, he's way back there in Sutheps shadow, he needs to find that torch and lead from the front.

I'm afraid not... I think Abhisit is, actually, a decent guy but... he suffers from a set of glaring weakness:

procrastination, indecision and weak leadership

"cometh the hour, dither and goeth the man"

sums Abhisit up

he had a brilliant chance to shine when he gained power through the backdoor yet let it slip away

NOW he dithers about elections when he could have gained votes (not won but gained votes) yet he chose to play the "I can't win so I won't play" card and that will cost him huge reputational damage as a weak leader and THAT coupled with his unhealthy attachment to the Ammart ensures defeat UNTIL the Dems break free of their elite shackles

I have to say that after the years of corruption under Thaksin and his multitude of successors Abhisit briefly showed Thailand's leaders could be well mannered and educated not just scary mafia lookalikes and for a while Thailand's economy (under Korn) stood out as a rare beacon of light in the post 2007 darkness.

And yet Abhisit showed he really isn't tough enough to mix it with the thugs who inhabit Thai politics and having the police in the pocket of his biggest enemy effectively sealed his fate.

[Old Man River]

You use the same old tired tactics to get around a simple question that you can't answer. So, I will help you out and make it simpler:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet budget to pay back all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

I assume incompetence until I see proof of serious and systematic corruption. Trumping up allegations of corruption is what political opponents do across Asia. It gets rather tedious. Truth is, every government is incompetent and corrupt to a degree. In a democractic system that is lamentable. Without democracy, it is catastrophic.

The point is still this: if the voters think the government is too incompetent or too corrupt, they still have the option to vote them out. The current insurrection aims to remove that option.

In any case, it seems necessary to have to repeat: the current insurrection is not about eradicating corruption. Corruption will be part of the Thai system until decades of economic growth allows levels of taxation that will fund reasonable salaries for all civil servants.

For that, self-regulating, progressive democracy is what is needed. The last thing the country needs is a right-wing dictatorship representing an influential minority who feel entitled to the biggest cut of the pie. That's the best recipe for godzilla levels of corruption and a closed society that tells everyone what they can and cannot think.

I appreciate your thoughts on corruption. We are discussing separate things. Your thoughts on corruption are similar to mine. We have nothing to discuss here. I have only one simple question, and since you are a person of opinion, please answer:

Why didn't YL and her cabinet not budget to pay all the farmers prior to Suthep's protests?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Cornering a market on commodities has been tried before. Normally, it is a failure, and then smart people cut bait and run.YL's government tried, failed, and then, instead of admitting failure, tried to hide it. It is a global commodity. You can't hide it.

This is completely separate from alleged corruption. That is up to the NACC and the Senate to deliberate over. My comments have nothing to do with corruption, but rather payment under promised populist policies. Once failing, and hiding it, it appears that the current caretaker government, prior to the protests and becoming a caretaker government, never budgeted to pay all the farmers. Some are, apparently, owed since 2011!

After promising to pay farmers under the main populist policy, how can YL's government default and expect prudent people, other than some on TV, to not understand that they never meant to pay 100% of the farmers they promised to pay?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

"After promising to pay farmers under the main populist policy, how can YL's government default and expect prudent people, other than some on TV, to not understand that they never meant to pay 100% of the farmers they promised to pay?"

I'm not sure I'd agree entirely with the reason you offer, but you yourself do offer a reason which may or may not have truth. You might be reading minds, which would make your reason highly subjective, or you might have specific and concrete evidence of an intent to evade, deceive or possibly worse, I don't know which because I haven't seen you present any of either - but I may have missed something along the line here.

You also state Incompetence and corruption are given. This is the view shared by many posters of differing views and many among us have said so specifically, consistently. You've made your point in these respects, if not the whole of the case you say exists, as have many other posters. So I don't see why any among the corps of posters should have to engage in mind reading as it is your point to make and to argue.

Given that there is general and broad agreement in the matters of incompetence and corruption, other reasons such as evasion and deceit, and/or cynical manipulation in the run up to the election, could be involved. All in all however I see incompetence and corruption, which is more than enough for me.

More than enough for me to, but just out of curiosity, what I am wondering about is intent to pay. A few month's ago, someone was complaining that their in law wasn't paid under the first car scheme. I mentioned whether it was budgeted and the response was that all that were budgeted to pay had been paid, but not all were budgeted to be paid. This seems to also be an issue with the rice scheme as well.

Simply as a matter of discussion, I was wondering if similar instances were also being realized with some of the other populist polices.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited April 7, 2014 by Old Man River