Help! Thai wife buys house but farang husband has no rights?

[peter48]

My Thai wife from UK is soon ( hopefully) to purchase new house in HH with our monies + mortgage from a Thai bank. As I am in UK I have to sign & take to Thai embassy in London among other things something called a 'letter of confirmation'. I think this means I am signing as a foreigner ( even though I am spouse of Thai) that I have no ownership rights of this property especially on divorce or bereavement. Is this correct?

Moreover what about the children of our marriage, I guess our Thai son ( living in UK with both passports) has inheritance rights? Our UK born son ( half Thai/half English) with UK passport has no rights too as he is a foreigner too. He's 11 years old so presumably could get Thai passport too.

Its so dam confusing - in sum, sounds like farang buys property for wife and it's just like a gift , like a car or something. Farang has no rights whatsoever. Can any one help.

[JesseFrank]

Welcome to the club.

[hotrod4098]

word of advise...get a lawyer..and i mean one that specialize in land deals..do not let you partner or her family choose one...

this is a big investment...think about it..long and hard

think what would happen if things go wrong...

for me ...it would be no lawyer no deal...

i was presented with a land deal ...6 rai..the family was trying to stich me up...one call to my lawyer..the deal was blown out of the water...the land could not be sold..saved me 600000 thb..

[David48]

Peter, the above is correct.

You can buy a Condo/Apartment in your own name, but a house has a definable land content, and foreigners are not allowed to own land ... there are rare exceptions.

Go to the Real-Estate Forum, there are literally 100's on threads on the subject.

In essence, what the Thai government are asking you to confirm is that the Money (your money) is hers and not you gifting it to her ... or something along those lines.

Hundreds, maybe thousands of Westerners have lost their life savings 'investing' in Thai housing.

It's a serious step and, if I were you, read up here on the subject, then make your decision based on your gut feeling about the relationship.

Just tell the missus that there is a technical delay and read, read and read some more.

[Bazw57]

As others have said get a very good lawyer that understands Thai law and also speaks fluent English so there is no confusion.

But from my understanding once you sign the papers and the house is purchased in your wife's name you are screwed and it's all hers no matter what you do to protect yourself

I have heard it possible to draw up a very long term lease that basically gives you some rights to the house but that's why you need a lawyer to explain any options like that.

100's have been burnt badly before you thinking she loves me and we have children so what could go wrong?

Plenty if you read all the horror stories on the internet.

Good luck

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[casualbiker]

op. one way out is for the seller to separate the land from the house. The wife owns the land (you cannot by law) but you can own the house, you can then get a 30 year lease on the house. as a side note your sons are THAI as they have a thai mum..The other way is to put the house in the kids name.. but it cannot then be sold until he is of age without a court agreement.. check the details with a lawyer.

ps: if you buy a car IT CAN go in your name (some Transport offices require a long term visa, easy to get at Hull consulate)

Edited April 6, 2014 by casualbiker

[Bpuumike]

op. one way out is for the seller to separate the land from the house. The wife owns the land (you cannot by law) but you can own the house, you can then get a 30 year lease on the house. as a side note your sons are THAI as they have a thai mum..The other way is to put the house in the kids name.. but it cannot then be sold until he is of age without a court agreement.. check the details with a lawyer.

ps: if you buy a car IT CAN go in your name (some Transport offices require a long term visa, easy to get at Hull consulate)

Just a slight slip there.

You can own the house and the it's the land you get a 30 year lease on (known as an usufruct). Establish this before you buy the house. That will probably mean a trip over here to rtegister the lease with the local Land Office.

[uptheos]

op. one way out is for the seller to separate the land from the house. The wife owns the land (you cannot by law) but you can own the house, you can then get a 30 year lease on the house. as a side note your sons are THAI as they have a thai mum..The other way is to put the house in the kids name.. but it cannot then be sold until he is of age without a court agreement.. check the details with a lawyer.

ps: if you buy a car IT CAN go in your name (some Transport offices require a long term visa, easy to get at Hull consulate)

Just a slight slip there.

You can own the house and the it's the land you get a 30 year lease on (known as an usufruct). Establish this before you buy the house. That will probably mean a trip over here to rtegister the lease with the local Land Office.

A Usufruct is for life, is not taxable and can be passed on to the children. A 30 year lease has to be registered and you pay taxes.

[Showbags]

Put it straight into the kids name and see what unfolds.

[arch77778]

Cant a Thai lawyer spell it out for us on this forum what the position is with regard to the subject raised by the OP.

[Showbags]

^ why do you need a thai lawyer to tell you what is so simple to understand in this country ?

[Jim walker]

Only spend an amount money on the Thai house that you can walk away from and not be concerned about the money, as we all know the laws restricting rights of foreigners can change at a whim from practically anyone in authority from Privy Council to elected government, or even some street protesters.

[Pinot]

I'm sorry, but I need to repeat myself from a previous post:

Don't buy real estate in Thailand.

There is plenty to rent here. Real estate investments rarely make financial sense. There is simply no reason to do it...ever.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

word of advise...get a lawyer..and i mean one that specialize in land deals..do not let you partner or her family choose one...

this is a big investment...think about it..long and hard

think what would happen if things go wrong...

for me ...it would be no lawyer no deal...

i was presented with a land deal ...6 rai..the family was trying to stich me up...one call to my lawyer..the deal was blown out of the water...the land could not be sold..saved me 600000 thb..

Wow...6 rai for 600,000THB was it swamp land in (lower) Nakon Nowhere with (a fake) sor bor kor title

[peter48]

Thanks guys some interesting stuff. I am not sinking a life threatening amount into this ( circa 50% of price) so in extreme I could walk away from it as she has got to earn money ( through rent etc) to pay back the monthly payments. I amI guess a guarantor in the final analysis. She has also a significant insurance package on it from the Bank.

Interestingly though she has claimed it would pass to me and/or sons on death so I am unsure of that. Still unclear on divorce too. Who would it pass to?

We have been married over 10+ years so I know the score. Thanks for any help offered on divorce and bereavement (Hers, unlikely but you never know). ??

[peter48]

Sorry on my last point - its quite general really but can be seen as ambiguous.In Thailand if the Thai wife passes away or 'the Farang -Thai couple' divorce does not the husband have some rights to the property especially after long marriage ? Surely we are not saying he is left with zero.

[JesseFrank]

Sorry on my last point - its quite general really but can be seen as ambiguous.In Thailand if the Thai wife passes away or 'the Farang -Thai couple' divorce does not the husband have some rights to the property especially after long marriage ? Surely we are not saying he is left with zero.

Foreigner can inherit property in Thailand, but will have to sell it within a certain period of time set by the court .

I would think that in a divorce he also can claim some part, since it are assets the wife acquired during the marriage, but you better ask that question in the Ask the lawyer forum.

Edited April 6, 2014 by JesseFrank

[Bazw57]

Sorry on my last point - its quite general really but can be seen as ambiguous.In Thailand if the Thai wife passes away or 'the Farang -Thai couple' divorce does not the husband have some rights to the property especially after long marriage ? Surely we are not saying he is left with zero.

As far as I know that is exactly what he gets.....Zero

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[casualbiker]

If in the event of death of Thai wife the property would go to husband BUT foreign husbands have to to sell or transfer land within one year.

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[pinkpanther99]

I've been advised my a couple of Thai lawyers and people with experience in this that the way to go is to put the property in your name then take a usufruct on the land that prevents your wife from pulling the plug and kicking you off the land if things were ever to turn sour.

That said, I'm certainly no expert and have never bought a house in Thailand, I'm just passing on info that has been passed onto me.

Like some of the posters above have said, find yourself a good lawyer and seek advice from as many knowledgeable people as possible

[Showbags]

Correct above mostly.

Get her to make a will and leave directly to the kids, bypassing the requirement to sell within a year if left to you.

However, if left to you, you can then simply transfer/sell it to your kids anyway.

As for divorce...I believe if you keep the records, you can claim half of it...50% of any assets raised after marriage can be split equally.

[hhfarang]

You nor your Thai/English son with only a foreign passport can ever "own" the land. I guess a Usufruct or something similar is a way to protect you in case of divorce, but a will written up properly by a Thai lawyer will protect you in case of your wife's untimely demise before you and give you total "control" of your assets, including land here. I invested heavily into land and house when I first came here ten years ago and had to sign the same form you mentioned saying I have no financial interests in the land, however I got a Thai will drawn up that gives me control over the land until my death or sale of the land (and house). This is legal.

I did it because this happened to an American friend who lives here. He, luckily, had this type of will drawn up as soon as he bought property here in his wife's name (who was the same age as him). He did it to keep the family vultures from swooping in upon her death and taking everything from him. The will stated (as mine does) that if the Thai wife passes away before the foreign husband, the husband has a right to live in the house for the rest of his life, or sell the land and house and keep the proceeds. My friend's wife did pass away about ten years ago. He lived in the house until last year when he sold it for 28m baht that went into his bank account.

On his advice I had the same type of wills (you may want one for you and one for your spouse) drawn up for us. I used a very professional law firm (same one he used) called Pensit and Laws in Bangkok. It covers my wife's farm, her family home in Issan which are both in her name and land and houses we own in Hua Hin. I can control, live on, lease out, sell, any of them as I wish upon her death before mine. If I die first, of course everything is hers, and if we both go together or when the last of us dies everything will go to our daughter who lives in California but has both Thai and U.S. passports.

[captspectre]

Welcome to the club.

falang's (foreigners) have no right to own land and cannot own land in Thailand. period!

[bourbonstbkk]

Go to

http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

There are no taxes to be paid like a 30 year lease and it only costs 270 bt to register it and your name goes on the title deed.

Some law firms will charge 90,000 bt or have a local law firm do it for 7,000 bt

I have done it and it works.

The only way to go.

[little mary sunshine]

TIT....IF she divorecs you in a year or two you have NOTHING.......Only sign for her

to purchase a condo in Foreign Ownership Name......

Edited April 7, 2014 by little mary sunshine

[dmroo]

As most people have said, Get a good Lawyer.

Also why not consider getting the good lawyer to create a company with both names on the title. The land doesnt belong to you as such, but belongs to the Company.

Yes you have to pay taxes but it is an investment also.

Let me know how things go. I'm very interested.

We are in the process of starting a real estate company and mainly looking after the Farangs best interest. www.siam-living.com

Best of luck and don't be a statistic

[crazykopite]

I am being blunt " DO NOT DO IT " just rent a house if you need a property buy a freehold apartment in your name do not use a local lawyer as there all family go find. Lawyer yourself in a different district nelieve me you and your English son will get ripped off big time

[kjhbigv]

Out of interest, could the property be put in the name of the OPs "Thai" son? Who I guess was born in Thailand (and therefore can own land) and is obviously older then his "UK" son?

Also, would the bank lend money against the property with only the son as owner? I guess not?

What about having the property in name of "Thai" son and his wife?...They could then still borrow the money from the bank and would need both parties to sign and potential sale in the future.

[rayongchelsea]

You nor your Thai/English son with only a foreign passport can ever "own" the land. I guess a Usufruct or something similar is a way to protect you in case of divorce, but a will written up properly by a Thai lawyer will protect you in case of your wife's untimely demise before you and give you total "control" of your assets, including land here. I invested heavily into land and house when I first came here ten years ago and had to sign the same form you mentioned saying I have no financial interests in the land, however I got a Thai will drawn up that gives me control over the land until my death or sale of the land (and house). This is legal.

I did it because this happened to an American friend who lives here. He, luckily, had this type of will drawn up as soon as he bought property here in his wife's name (who was the same age as him). He did it to keep the family vultures from swooping in upon her death and taking everything from him. The will stated (as mine does) that if the Thai wife passes away before the foreign husband, the husband has a right to live in the house for the rest of his life, or sell the land and house and keep the proceeds. My friend's wife did pass away about ten years ago. He lived in the house until last year when he sold it for 28m baht that went into his bank account.

On his advice I had the same type of wills (you may want one for you and one for your spouse) drawn up for us. I used a very professional law firm (same one he used) called Pensit and Laws in Bangkok. It covers my wife's farm, her family home in Issan which are both in her name and land and houses we own in Hua Hin. I can control, live on, lease out, sell, any of them as I wish upon her death before mine. If I die first, of course everything is hers, and if we both go together or when the last of us dies everything will go to our daughter who lives in California but has both Thai and U.S. passports.

My daughter was born in the uk, has both passports. Owns a house and land.

Can you explain whose name the chanote was in, when he sold for 28m..

On the death of his wife, did he actually go thru probate..?

Interesting..

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[godden]

as i have said for so long, it will draw you farther than gun powder will blow you.