Should we Farangs be scared.

[Kanthralak 1]

I have very recently finished reading a book titled “Welcome to hell” By Colin Martin. I’ve heard stories and always dismissed them. Thai police and justice system are corrupt. I’ve always dismissed this as, “so what all countries have they fair share of bad cops and crooked lawyers”. But Mr Martins experiences are real this isn’t a tale of fiction. His case went to the highest court in the land and even that court couldn’t permit justice.

It’s scary. Imagine you bar fine a pretty girl who really does have a sick buffalo. At the end of what I hope would be a fantastic romp in the sack, you pay the agreed amount for her services. She on a whim can decide it’s not enough and unless you empty your wallet into her hand, she could have you up on rape charges.

This hypothetical scenario could start off a chain of events which could result in you being incarcerated without hope of being freed, unless you pay and bribe your way to freedom. The justice system is so slow, it could take years before you even see the inside of a court room to protest your innocence and expect justice. Justice won’t come unless you pay some police/justice official a bribe to make your case disappear.

In short get into a serious disagreement or argument with a Thai you might want to seriously consider getting on the next airplane back to where ever you come from. Because in Thailand unless you have money in your wallet you won’t get justice. Scary very Scary!

And lastly, poor Mr Martin, deserted by his Thai wife, who ran off with his bail money. I’m very aware Thai women go with and marry Farangs for a better life. I did also believe that given the relationship is successful and over time, the wife develops genuine affection and loyalty with her Farang partner. I’m sure there are many such of these type of Thai ladies out there. However I would venture to say, without any real knowledge and claim that the majority don’t know what loyalty is. They would drop you as soon as there was trouble, specifically if they thought the gravy train was about to stop. Scary! A wife from any culture should be there in your corner through thick and thin, in any kind of storm. I always thought Asian women once committed, would be far more loyal than any other race on this planet. Thai ladies are now causing me to revise this opinion I had. In fact they really feature very low on my personal opinion poll at present.

[tingtong]

A vivid fantasy?

For a change, imagine your poor little Mr.Martins not bar fine a prostitute ( or just pick with a little more carefully?)...and then imagine his most loyal Thai wife not runnng off with his money ( or without).

Afterall, it isnt dear mr. Martins who is in the wrong in the first place, and thereafter?

If you would be that loyal wife, what kind an opinion would you form from your husband who spending money on prostitutes, and getting into jail? Would you think that foreigners are all bar hopping?

Would you remain loyal for your cheating spouse?

Scary, the double standard, that is, doesnt matter from what side it comes.

[I Like Thai]

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Back+Inside+Bangkok+Hilton+Memories%3A+Return+to+hell%3B+Convicted+killer...-a0137574593

IRISHMAN Colin Martin was convicted in Thailand of the murder of New Zealander Bret Holdsworth, 40, on July 14, 1977.

A father-of-four from Crossmaglen, South Armagh, he spent almost eight years in the notorious rat-infested, disease-ridden "Bangkok Hilton" prison.

In his best-selling book, Welcome To Hell, he said the police tortured him with electric shocks to his body and testicles and nearly suffocated him by placing a plastic bag over his head.

Colin said: "They threatened to kill me if I didn't confess and at one time held a gun to my head and told me they would shoot me if I didn't sign a statement they had prepared in Thai. Then they would say I was shot whilst trying to escape.

[Kanthralak 1]

Tingtong read the book. It has nothing to do with bar fines and prostitutes. I simply tried to sketch a hypothetical situation many Farangs might find themselves in.

I'm suggesting that as Farang's in Thailand we should be scared, as we do not have protection under the law. If for what ever reason one should end up in police custody, you better be prepared to pay and bribe your way to freedom. The Thai policing & justice system doesn't seem to work along the lines of what is right or wrong, but simply how much money can be extorted, before guilt or innocence can be proven.

Mr Martin wasn't frequenting bars and paying for ladies of the night. His Thai wife was trusted with a bulk payment intended to pay for his bail. She instead ran off with the payment and there by preventing him from being released and further more ensuring his incarceration for up-to 8 years for a crime he never committed.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes we should be scared unless we have lots of money to buy our way out of things, but if you want to live here, you are better off ignoring it and hope for the best. There used to be a website called 'Boycott Thailand," that closed down long ago, with all kinds of horror stories about innocent foreigners going to jail, but I can't find any references to it on Google. It was run by Andrew Vachss who did a book on Batman going to Thailand - they call it something else - to stop child sex exploitation.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/107134.Batman

Edited April 16, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Spoonman]

No iam not scared as I will not be murdering anyone to place me into that predicament to start with.

Do the crime, do the time.

[ivan96822]

Walk a fine line and do the right thing without imposing on others and I think you will be fine.

Of course, that does not mean that THAT is what I am doing, but still...seems like general, good advice for any and all situations.

[HerbalEd]

Why worry about a hypothetical, non-exsitent problem? If you must fantasize, do it about something pleasant.

[duanebigsby]

Yes, the Thai police and judicial system has many issues.

But ask yourself,

Are you murdering people like Colin allegedly did?

Are you using or smuggling drugs like most foreigners banged up in Thai prisons?

Are you banging a ton of whores in the seediest bars your hypothetical outlines?

If not, and usually keep your nose out of others' business there isn't too much too worry about.

Personally any time I've interacted with police in Thailand it's been all ok.

[Suradit69]

No iam not scared as I will not be murdering anyone to place me into that predicament to start with.

Do the crime, do the time.

Name one country where police and prison guards do not abuse their power, where innocent persons don't get convicted of crimes they didn't commit, where power and money don't buy a form of justice not available to "lesser people" and where isms based on race, religion, language, sexual identity or political persuasions don't put people at risk..

And running to Thai Visa to stir up some racially based alarm and call to arms ("we farangs") is just childish nonsense. If you're afraid then run away to some imagined farang paradise where never is heard a discouraging word and the skies are not cloudy all day.

And incidentally this is not an exclusively farang forum as your thread title seems to imply. I happen to be a farang, but that doesn't mean I want to be part of the hysterical "we" into which you seem to feel nationality or skin color immediately thrusts us all.

I'm more "scared" of fear mongers than I am worried about the Thai police and system of justice.

[Rumblecat]

Tingtong read the book. It has nothing to do with bar fines and prostitutes. I simply tried to sketch a hypothetical situation many Farangs might find themselves in.

To be honest, you seemed to be describing a book about a man who went to jail on false rape charges, and whose wife ran off with his bail. But then I read he'd killed a Westerner, but your post seems to be about how if you get in trouble with a thai you should jump on the next plane home, so it's a wee bit confusing. How did he get released in the end then?

This though - "I always thought Asian women once committed, would be far more loyal than any other race on this planet" - is just some weird fantasy of what 'Asian women' should be- subservient, kowtowing... If that's the jaded stereotype that people are chasing them, yeah, they're going to be disappointed and deservedly so.

[GAZZPA]

Firstly, if you are desperate enough to go to a bar and use prostitutes you are breaking the law, despite prostitutes being easily available everywhere it is illegal. If you don't break the law then there is no reason why you should be scared as far as I can see.

That said the system here is corrupt for sure, so if you do get into a scrape you had better have some cash to hand or you are in for a rough ride. Unlike the west where you will "mostly" expect justice and for the police to follow the rule of law Thailand certainly seems different. They use a combination of the law and personal discretion (the discretion part usually means cash payments) which makes things very unpredictable and unreliable.

So, I guess its simple really, don't break the law and you will probably never have to navigate the Thai legal system, warts and all.

[Aceicol]

No iam not scared as I will not be murdering anyone to place me into that predicament to start with.

Do the crime, do the time.

Isn't the point of the thread that the bloke didn't do the crime, yet had to do the time?

[transam]

No iam not scared as I will not be murdering anyone to place me into that predicament to start with.

Do the crime, do the time.

Isn't the point of the thread that the bloke didn't do the crime, yet had to do the time?

In LOS any daft thing is possible, none of you forget it..............

[brit1984]

i live in constant fear of being tricked into eating chicken feet, again

[slygeeza]

Firstly, if you are desperate enough to go to a bar and use prostitutes you are breaking the law, despite prostitutes being easily available everywhere it is illegal. If you don't break the law then there is no reason why you should be scared as far as I can see.

pretty sure its not illegal, even tho farang repeatedly say it is. some aspects of it are, such as under age and soliciting, but prostitution itself isnt as far as I know

[tamvine]

Scared is the one who does something wrong. Police will come later his conscience will catch him first.

Be scared of yourself first before doing anything illegal or a crime.

Avoid anything wrong all and hold head high.

Edited April 16, 2014 by tamvine

[brit1984]

you should only be scared of any danger if that fear helps you take action to reduce the risk

i'm not sure what action you can take to reduce the risk of being a victim of a miscarriage of justice other than maybe try to live your life peacefully without hurting or upsetting other people....

[duanebigsby]

Firstly, if you are desperate enough to go to a bar and use prostitutes you are breaking the law, despite prostitutes being easily available everywhere it is illegal. If you don't break the law then there is no reason why you should be scared as far as I can see.

pretty sure its not illegal, even tho farang repeatedly say it is. some aspects of it are, such as under age and soliciting, but prostitution itself isnt as far as I know

Solicitation for prostitution is illegal in Thailand as you state. The wording of the law is clumsy and the fines are low unless the girl is under 18. It is also illegal for bar owners to run brothels, but then again the wording is weird and hard to define.

I'm not sure how a girl sells her body without solicitation or not in a club, but I can see how the laws can be twisted to get any girl off of a charge or arrest them either way.

Edited April 16, 2014 by duanebigsby

[dao16]

Tingtong read the book. It has nothing to do with bar fines and prostitutes. I simply tried to sketch a hypothetical situation many Farangs might find themselves in.

To be honest, you seemed to be describing a book about a man who went to jail on false rape charges, and whose wife ran off with his bail. But then I read he'd killed a Westerner, but your post seems to be about how if you get in trouble with a thai you should jump on the next plane home, so it's a wee bit confusing. How did he get released in the end then?

This though - "I always thought Asian women once committed, would be far more loyal than any other race on this planet" - is just some weird fantasy of what 'Asian women' should be- subservient, kowtowing... If that's the jaded stereotype that people are chasing them, yeah, they're going to be disappointed and deservedly so.

Yeah, that is one of the great myths. Asian women can be "subservient" regarding some issues that are important in Western culture. However, look at things that matter in their culture and you will find them something much different to "subservient." The same girl that treats you well in bed and clips your toenails will not just sit back and take it when you mess with family and other important issues in Asian culture. It's a myth based on Western views of Asia. I assume that most of the TV members who have actually been with a Thai or Asian woman for several years will attest to this fact.

[charlieboz]

He actually had a long term farang wife; came to Thailand, hooked up with a girl, got robbed of a small fortune by the kiwi, left his wife and two children and moved here. Then he kills a guy. Not exactly a sympathetic figure.

I read the book and thought it was a self serving pile of dog crap, by a guy who continually came up with excuses as why nothing was his fault. Frankly I did not feel sorry for him (and I am not usually one of the cynical kind who thinks everyone deserves what they get) and felt that he really did not learn anything from all his experiences.

Edited April 16, 2014 by charlieboz

[kurnell]

Lucky I know big police so i not sa-gared

[Bung]

My number 1 rule for living on Thailand:

Avoid at all cost getting yourself into a situation whereby the Thai police have a reason to come into your life.

[Ulic]

You should always be aware of how thing work in a third world country. They are all very similar with loads of corruption

and depending on your connections or how much money you have things can work in your favour. (Guilty or not)

So afraid, no, aware definitely yes. Prepared with some emergency money/line of credit, absolutely.

[maderaroja]

My number 1 rule for living on Thailand:

Avoid at all cost getting yourself into a situation whereby the Thai police have a reason to come into your life.

Wise advice anywhere in the world.

[maswov]

And you only get one side of the story. I work as a volunteer police officer in Pattaya and here these stories all the time. It's so easy to know when people are leaving something out of the story. Just like liberal media, take out what you want and piece it together to tell the story you want told.

[Spoonman]

No iam not scared as I will not be murdering anyone to place me into that predicament to start with.

Do the crime, do the time.

Name one country where police and prison guards do not abuse their power, where innocent persons don't get convicted of crimes they didn't commit, where power and money don't buy a form of justice not available to "lesser people" and where isms based on race, religion, language, sexual identity or political persuasions don't put people at risk..

And running to Thai Visa to stir up some racially based alarm and call to arms ("we farangs") is just childish nonsense. If you're afraid then run away to some imagined farang paradise where never is heard a discouraging word and the skies are not cloudy all day.

And incidentally this is not an exclusively farang forum as your thread title seems to imply. I happen to be a farang, but that doesn't mean I want to be part of the hysterical "we" into which you seem to feel nationality or skin color immediately thrusts us all.

I'm more "scared" of fear mongers than I am worried about the Thai police and system of justice.

Really. WOW.

you reply to my post is way over the top. what are you hiding ?

[bigbamboo]

I guess the bottom line is don't go with Thai prostitutes if you haven't got the b***s.

But if you're that easily scared of Thais you should stay at home with Mummy.

Edited April 16, 2014 by bigbamboo

[maswov]

Firstly, if you are desperate enough to go to a bar and use prostitutes you are breaking the law, despite prostitutes being easily available everywhere it is illegal. If you don't break the law then there is no reason why you should be scared as far as I can see.

pretty sure its not illegal, even tho farang repeatedly say it is. some aspects of it are, such as under age and soliciting, but prostitution itself isnt as far as I know

Solicitation for prostitution is illegal in Thailand as you state. The wording of the law is clumsy and the fines are low unless the girl is under 18. It is also illegal for bar owners to run brothels, but then again the wording is weird and hard to define.

I'm not sure how a girl sells her body without solicitation or not in a club, but I can see how the laws can be twisted to get any girl off of a charge or arrest them either way.

Has been a while since I read the law but if I recall correctly the solicitation law supersedes the prostitution law however the solicitation law never mentions prostitution being legal or illegal. Since the previous law had been superseded there is no guidance on whether prostitution is legal or not. The solicitation law says the solicitation is illegal in public places. So would it be illegal if it took place inside of a bar or in the short time room?

Solicitation by definition is offering money for someone to perform an illegal act, but we normally think of prostitution only and I am sure that is what is meant in the law. So until we have clear guidance on whether prostitution is legal or not, there is nothing wrong with offering money for sex.

[phuketandsee]

“Anybody who thinks that Asian women are passive and submissive has obviously never pissed one off” - Anon