Thailand's selfish super-rich

[Crushdepth]

Or you could use your wealth to divide, subvert and undermine democratic processes and rape the country...that would be quite the plan.

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[chotthee]

Or you could use your wealth to divide, subvert and undermine democratic processes and rape the country...that would be quite the plan.

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Thaksin?

[northernjohn]

Land Tax would be a better way to tackle the problem.

Land tax would just give the politicians more money to put in their pocket. It is how ever a good idea. In my opinion.

The idea of the thread is to get the super rich to give out right to charities. A practice that is slowly happening in the west.

Here in Thailand it is going to be a long time happening. What will probably happen first is the families will lose it. Each generation will get less interested in the business that brings the money in. That is what happened to the Eaton Family in Canada. The last generation just didn't want to do any thing so they just closed the company down and will live off the money they already have. A considerable amount I might add. Should carry them through two more generations.

[chotthee]

Land Tax would be a better way to tackle the problem.

Land tax would just give the politicians more money to put in their pocket. It is how ever a good idea. In my opinion.

The idea of the thread is to get the super rich to give out right to charities. A practice that is slowly happening in the west.

Here in Thailand it is going to be a long time happening. What will probably happen first is the families will lose it. Each generation will get less interested in the business that brings the money in. That is what happened to the Eaton Family in Canada. The last generation just didn't want to do any thing so they just closed the company down and will live off the money they already have. A considerable amount I might add. Should carry them through two more generations.

Land Tax will only hurt the poor.

The rich have way to avoid the land tax.

[northernjohn]

This is partly a religion issue, and the difference between East and West resulting from this. Philanthropy as we know it began during the heyday of Purgatory Theology, when rich people left their whole life savings to Churches, Poorhouses, Hospitals and food-for-poor schemes. The rich person was paying to have his time in Purgatory cut, a small amount of money would get you 40 days reduced, some very rich people paid for 40,000 years less time in Purgatory. If you believe in Purgatory or not, the social consequences of this were very positive, people tried to live good lives and if they didn't manage that they would upon death leave a fortune to the poor and hungry in society. This was because in Purgatory (a sort of Hell_Lite) you weren't spending eternity in the Cellar as it were, but you were still suffering for a good long time. Greedy selfish money-men were forced to drink molten gold in Purgatory, liars had their tongues nailed to the floor, murderers were hewn upon the block. These are real incentives to live a good honourable life, or at the very least to give all your money to poor people when you died.

I wouldn't be so sanctimonious about the East. Do you know what "tam-boon" means in Thailand? It's making merit, and millions (if not billions) of baht are channeled into religious institutions here for the purpose of earning a higher status in the "next life." Same motivations. Learn your hosts' culture, friend.

I wasn't being sanctimonious about anything. Re; the East, I spent decades travelling the East, and have many Buddhist friends in Thailand, Japan, Laos, etc. I can confirm that my Buddhist friends are happy to give small donations and spend time praying, but when they die their money will go to their family. A small sum may go to the temple, most will go to family. They believe they will be reincarnated regardless of donations.

My original post, which you totally missed the point of, was talking about the OP, the super rich, philanthropy. Put simply the only time I have seen the super-rich giving away *all* their money, was when they felt that they would suffer terribly in Purgatory. Did I "sanctimoniously" say that the West was better because of this - NO. I am fully aware of the crimes committed under Western religion too, and the suffering of people under oppressive sects in the West. My point was entirely about ; super rich, why don't they give away their money.

These Purgatory-fearing super-rich people gave away ALL their money, and usually not to Churches, but to actual poor-houses for the feeding and clothing of the poorest, or hospitals - it was essential that the money actually helped the poor, because Jesus said "'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God." and so the super-rich of the purgatory-fearing era believed that ensuring all their money went to the poor, was a safe way to not suffer too much torment.

And these super-rich people of that era, they were not giving away their life savings because they were especially kind people who loved the poor - they were giving their money away out of fear of punishment, and the "its better to be safe than sorry" ethos.

Your post is extremely cynical. Whilst it's a fact that Asians will donate enormous sums to temples (a recent article pertinent to another thread being a case in point) hoping for a kick upstairs once having shuffled off mortal coil, and anyone who's read George Orwell's Burmese Days would get the drift of course. But people DO give out of the kindness of their hearts and always have done. Particularly during the Victorian era in the UK.

Philanthropy crosses all borders, but it has to be admitted that apart from the Forbes named Chinese, there's little to see of it in the Orient. Although, again , I do remember a piece quoting a Thai as saying '...... (forget the names, while ago), built hospitals and schools, where are Taksin and his wife's contributions?' And no, not having a pop at the 'reds' could equally be the er, 'yellows' .

I thought the Catholic church did away with Purgatory years ago. Maybe it was Limbo. Raised Catholic I was raised with the belief that if you wore a scapular all the time you would go straight to heaven. Different beliefs in different diocese.

[givenall]

I read that Thais are the most generous tippers in Asia so perhaps that is whee the billions are going?

Forget about charities. These are the same ones driving the country to ground competing to control the government so they can raid the treasury.

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[Thai at Heart]

 

Andrew Carnegie built 2000 libraries. There is one just down the road from my house in the UK.

Great people do great things. I don't see enough of this civic and societal concern in Thailand. The uber rich coulddo a lot more in Thailand, but as yet they don't.

Schools could be transformed by charity in Thailand.

 

Carnegie did a lot of bad stuff while accumulating his wealth. The building of libraries was a way for him to make sure his name lived on after he was dead. I personally would not call him a great man by any stretch of the imagination.

Doesn't change the fact that he built the libraries does it though. The world is filled with dodgy people who gave back to the community. He could have wasted it.

It beats giving to the temple.

[Yunla]

I thought the Catholic church did away with Purgatory years ago. Maybe it was Limbo. Raised Catholic I was raised with the belief that if you wore a scapular all the time you would go straight to heaven. Different beliefs in different diocese.

Yes the purgatory era ended a long time ago, the Reformation was in part caused as a backlash to the way purgatory was being used to generate wealth, and to the concept of buying your way out of punishment by giving away your wealth to poorhouses in your will. It went further of course, with chantries and soforth, people paying choirs to sing for them for years after death. It was a big business. I'm Anglican and we do not accept purgatory, as a rule.

My point, which was spectacularly missed by some posters, was just that the only time I have heard of large numbers of rich people giving away all their wealth, was when they did so out of fear of purgatory. They would literally write out wills with lists of poorhouses and hospitals and soforth, and give all their money to those. And did so out of fear - not out of genuine compassion in many cases. And this was the first, probably only, mass-philanthropy.

In later eras, wealthy businessmen gave large sums to workhouse orphans etc., and set up schools to feed and clothe the children of workhouse women. Those men were actiing not out of fear, but out of genuine compassion and a belief that society meant more than just random scattered people, and society required children to be educated and well fed. My point was really that those men were far fewer in number, and they didn't give *all* their money away - unlike in the purgatory era.

Also in Asia, I have great respect for the many charitable people who give back to society, during life or in death. I have never said Asians are not generous, on the contrary I have always said that Thai people have shown me great generosity and kindness. Only that it is not the norm. I don't know any of my friends who will leave their wealth to anything other than their family.

[JDGRUEN]

In spreading the wealth ... IMO, I am not in favor of wholesale promoting that rich families give a huge chunk of their money to charities. Why? there is no way to know the outcome. Some charities are way too top heavy with salaries draining contributions and others seem to suffer from blind 'do gooderism'... spreading good feelings but providing little change in the lives of their target group. Instead, I suggest Thailand create a series of Entrepreneurial Training and Development Centers that focus on business development at many levels... This would range from small business run efficiently to formation of high tech and other industries that can bring about an increase in employment opportunities over the country. Bottom line for Thailand or anywhere else the best solution for a country to redistribute the wealth is to teach people how to rise in the system by business creation / job creation. Again IMO, any attempt to achieve wealth redistribution by socialistic methods just creates generations of dependent people - not a population heavily salted with entrepreneurs who create opportunity for people to work their way out of a glass ceiling life. Of course any promotion - hopefully successful to convince the rich and super rich Thai families to foster entrepreneurship would have to be coupled with the creation of a pool of funds to seed such business activities. But - can any program - one based on the rich giving money to charities or by an entrepreneurial pathway do anything to create change in a country where in their culture, society and government corruption is the norm ?

[The stuttering parrot]

Not trying to blow my own trumpet.

Our charity consists of 6 people and we look after around 200.No wages no cash just gift packs of oil rice noodles etc school needs..

Why?Well in 1974 cyclone Tracy hit Darwin and my brother lost everything so donations flowed in from everywhere.

To this day 6 million is still missing and 6 million in 1974 was huge amount of money.

Same happened with promised money for the 9/11 victims.

So we just give direct

[dominique355]

It seems to me that the concept of charity is somehow different in Buddhist Thailand than in Western countries.

Here, charity is dominated by "making merit" (thamboon) and in the end is thought to help the one who donates rather than the one at the receiving end.

This is why we see things like the "White Temple" in Chiang Rai, entirely donated by a rich Thai to "make merit". Totally useless thing. Thousands of kids and poor could have benefited from this money, but now all they can do now is "admire" this wedding cake monstrosity.

Sometimes it takes so little to make a big difference. Many kids do not even have enough money to go to school and a mere 20 baht per day would help. But then of course, nobody would see this kind of charity and there is nothing to brag about.

Edited April 20, 2014 by dominique355

[ginjag]

Not trying to blow my own trumpet.

Our charity consists of 6 people and we look after around 200.No wages no cash just gift packs of oil rice noodles etc school needs..

Why?Well in 1974 cyclone Tracy hit Darwin and my brother lost everything so donations flowed in from everywhere.

To this day 6 million is still missing and 6 million in 1974 was huge amount of money.

Same happened with promised money for the 9/11 victims.

So we just give direct

Any funds collected/international aid are near all given direct in the form of sustainable aid, and never given direct to a government.

In the UK we have people are scattered all over the world in places that are in need at any time ready to receive food medical etc. The rule is after the initial care all attempts are made to let the people grow their food--we provide water pumps for irrigation -ie., sustainable the only way to help. If not you just keep sending food on a monthly basis for evermore.

As in Thailands case for rich to give for it's own disasters, Maybe the poor are the biggest donators.

[dominique355]

Inheritance tax anyone?

Tax money does not go into charity. It goes into the government's coffers and we all know how the government is spending it. 40% into corruption, 60% into stupid short term projects.

[Thai at Heart]

Inheritance tax anyone?

Tax money does not go into charity. It goes into the government's coffers and we all know how the government is spending it. 40% into corruption, 60% into stupid short term projects.

At least it would circulate around instead of being tied up in Mr. Pooyais bank account.

[RaoulDuke]

Sounds to me like they learned from Americans like the Koch brothers. The second-wealthiest family in the USA, who have made it their mission in life to spend billions of their ill-gotten fortune on buying politicians and judges in order to dismantle any program which helps anyone who is not uber-rich. They are working tirelessly to get rid of minimum wage, social security, unemployment benefits, public education, and any regulation that stops companies from polluting water and air. Worst of all, they are winning. America will be a 3rd world hellhole of poverty and oligarchs within the next 20-30 years, producing cheap crap for people in Thailand and China.

Greed and capitalism go hand in hand, and only a strong government can keep that greed in check. The vast number of super-rich became rich because of their tyrannical and unethical business practices, using any underhanded trick imaginable to cripple the competition and create a monopoly. To think that they would change their ways once they reach the top is hopelessly naive. A few like Buffett and Gates have seen a small glimpse of light, but the majority just end up becoming slaves to their money/power addiction, spawning horribly spoiled and out-of-touch children that run over cops in Ferrari's and post pictures of stupid overpriced crap on Instagram. Having never worked a day in their life and having no concept of the value of money, they don't even appreciate what they have had handed to them, but they know that they can show it off and make the mindless masses jealous of them. If the reward for 'success' is screwing over millions of people and having such rotten kids, you can keep it. It is obvious from their behavior that these oligarchs are completely miserable people, since they waste away their days thinking of how to keep screwing people over, instead of learning to enjoy life and take it easy.

Edited April 27, 2014 by RaoulDuke

[wprime]

Maybe if the poor were a little more appreciative the rich would be more inclined to help them.

E.g. during the floods of 2010 Khun Tan (founder of Oishi) had his staff help out with the floods. He personally went to Ayudhaya to help out and when he got there he needed a boat ride through the floods. The boat taxi demanded 3000 baht for what is normally a 20 baht trip. The guy went there to help them and they tried to milk him for more money

[3NUMBAS]

INSTEAD OF SUPPORTING THE POOR WITH THEIR WEALTH THEY CAST GOLD INTO EVER MORE Buddhist idols , a futile waste of time

http://www.pattayapeople.com/Community-News/GOLD-CASTING-CEREMONY_1604201402

[harada]

To quote a western diplomat on Thailands problems in the 1970's," The Thai Government and press are forever explaining away their national problems by pointing at the insurgents and others, but the real enemy is alive and well and living in Bangkok, driving around in air-conditioned Mercedes'. the only thing that has changed in 50 years is the gap between rich and poor.

Edited April 27, 2014 by harada

[tomhell]

We don´t want your charity - we want a fair society.

One main problem in Thailand is about the concentration of wealth because it almost inevitably leads to a concentration of power that undermines democracy.

Please rich people understand:

There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for.

I strongly recommend the movie from Robert Reich: Inequality for All

Tom

[kannot]

A bunch of super rich thais living off the backs of the super poor thais.

or are the "super poor" just "super lazy"?

[kannot]

It seems to me that the concept of charity is somehow different in Buddhist Thailand than in Western countries.

Here, charity is dominated by "making merit" (thamboon) and in the end is thought to help the one who donates rather than the one at the receiving end.

This is why we see things like the "White Temple" in Chiang Rai, entirely donated by a rich Thai to "make merit". Totally useless thing. Thousands of kids and poor could have benefited from this money, but now all they can do now is "admire" this wedding cake monstrosity.

Sometimes it takes so little to make a big difference. Many kids do not even have enough money to go to school and a mere 20 baht per day would help. But then of course, nobody would see this kind of charity and there is nothing to brag about.

Im always dismayed to see yet another shiny monument to stupidity and lack of thought popping up.