Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?

[Rimbuman]

In contradiction with many other 'civilized' countries Thailand doesn't offer the naturalization option to aliens married with a Thai national.

Many Thai have been granted second and some even multiple nationality because they are or have been married to a foreigner, so one could suggest that awareness about this subject with the Thai is not entirely non existent.

Yet when it comes down to providing a proper arrangement for a foreigner married to a Thai (both living in Thailand) The Thai government says no we don't do that, you can check our available options.

Most of us know what these heavily criticized options are and because of this some experience these as an insult because of the unwilling attitude from the Thai government to provide us with a similar treatment as our spouses were in our country.

What would be the reason(s) for Thailand to maintain this standpoint? Could ASIAN be the start of normalization? Should we foreigners married with Thai unite and make one voice?

Many more thoughts, questions and opinions out there, I'm sure.

Rimbuman

[Mentors]

Its the old saga. They don'want western foreigners, they want our money only.

So, rent and not buy.

We can never know what will be next in this country.

[samran]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

[transam]

Perhaps a national attitude towards "aliens", we are tolerated, thats it......

[alanrchase]

If they made it easier but stipulated you had to give up your home countries nanionality would you do it?

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[Rimbuman]

If they made it easier but stipulated you had to give up your home countries nanionality would you do it?

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A kind of funny you bring this up this way, stipulating till it becomes nearly impossible is a practice quit commonly done not only in Thailand.

My wife was asked to do the same when she applied for her passport, but notice the nuance 'asked' not 'told' because they couldn't legally demand this for obvious reasons. This is a old trick to demotivate applicants.

To answer your question, Yes I would.

[alanrchase]

I only posed the question for an insight into whether the option of gaining Thai Nationality was mor for convenience than a genuine wish to be a Thai National.

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[Neeranam]

I only posed the question for an insight into whether the option of gaining Thai Nationality was mor for convenience than a genuine wish to be a Thai National.

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Isn't gaining Nationality for any country for convenience?

I'm applying for that reason only.

[farang000999]

To be fair, the USA does not even lets Thais visit the country without jumping through all kinds of hoops including medical tests and waiting online and being interviewed at 6:00 am...

[alanrchase]

I only posed the question for an insight into whether the option of gaining Thai Nationality was mor for convenience than a genuine wish to be a Thai National.

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Isn't gaining Nationality for any country for convenience?

I'm applying for that reason only.

That is fine by me. If you are financially secure for the rest of your life go ahead. If not I would suggest some serious thought would be required as to whether you give up home country Nationality just for convenience

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[Neeranam]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Edited April 20, 2014 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

I only posed the question for an insight into whether the option of gaining Thai Nationality was mor for convenience than a genuine wish to be a Thai National.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Isn't gaining Nationality for any country for convenience?

I'm applying for that reason only.

That is fine by me. If you are financially secure for the rest of your life go ahead. If not I would suggest some serious thought would be required as to whether you give up home country Nationality just for convenience

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I won't have to give up my British(soon to be Scottish) nationality. Most countries allow dual citizenship.

It's a myth that Thailand doesn't grant those serious of living and working here citizenship, mainly spread on bar stools by those who show no inclination to integrate.

[alanrchase]

I only posed the question for an insight into whether the option of gaining Thai Nationality was mor for convenience than a genuine wish to be a Thai National.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Isn't gaining Nationality for any country for convenience?

I'm applying for that reason only.

That is fine by me. If you are financially secure for the rest of your life go ahead. If not I would suggest some serious thought would be required as to whether you give up home country Nationality just for convenience

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I won't have to give up my British(soon to be Scottish) nationality. Most countries allow dual citizenship.

It's a myth that Thailand doesn't grant those serious of living and working here citizenship, mainly spread on bar stools by those who show no inclination to integrate.

Never said it did. Only asked if you had to would you.

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[CharlieH]

In my observation, Thai people are generally selfish, so look after number one, so, as is often said "its our country", and can only be owned by thais,(generally) if you allow naturalisation, where is the money in that ? Nothing to be earned from it, no more visa money etc.

It would be interesting to know the actual amount of money earned every year from retirees paying for annual visa and re-entry permits. To say nothing of the loss of money to neighbouring countries for those that have to do 20 minute border crossings every 90 days etc.

As said before, we are tolerated nothing more. If we didnt supply a source of income then it would change for the worse rapidly in my opinion.

Edited April 20, 2014 by CharlieH

[alanrchase]

In my observation, Thai people are generally selfish, so look after number one, so, as is often said "its our country", and can only be owned by thais,(generally) if you allow naturalisation, where is the mobey in that ? Nothing to be earned from it, no more visa money etc.

It would be interesting to know the actual amount of money earned every year from retirees paying for annual visa and re-entry permits. To say nothing of the loss of money to neighbouring countries for those that have to do 20 minute border crossings every 90 days etc.

As said before, we are tolerated nothing more. If we didnt supply a source of income then it would change for the worse rapidly in my opinion.

So cynical, yet probably so true.

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[transam]

I only posed the question for an insight into whether the option of gaining Thai Nationality was mor for convenience than a genuine wish to be a Thai National.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Isn't gaining Nationality for any country for convenience?

I'm applying for that reason only.

That is fine by me. If you are financially secure for the rest of your life go ahead. If not I would suggest some serious thought would be required as to whether you give up home country Nationality just for convenience

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I won't have to give up my British(soon to be Scottish) nationality. Most countries allow dual citizenship.

It's a myth that Thailand doesn't grant those serious of living and working here citizenship, mainly spread on bar stools by those who show no inclination to integrate.

Can an old retired guy like me, married to a Thai get citizenship ?........... ....Eeeeeeeeeeer........Don't think so........

But the other way round Mrs.Trans can in the UK.

[alanrchase]

But the other way round Mrs.Trans can in the UK.

I am confused, British, Scottish, UK. What Nationality are you?

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[Neeranam]

Can an old retired guy like me, married to a Thai get citizenship ?........... ....Eeeeeeeeeeer........Don't think so........

But the other way round Mrs.Trans can in the UK.

What about if relatively rich Thai men wanted to retire in the UK and married young British women in order to do this?

If you were your wife's age and she yours and you were female and she male, it would be easy for you to get Thai citizenship.

[Rimbuman]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

I was mentioning naturalization and getting a Thai passport and having the same rights as any Thai. Maybe I am confused, would obtaining Thai citizenship be the same? I didn't think it is but maybe I'm wrong.

If Bob the Binman from Bristol in the Bar would comply with all the other requirements than I don't see why wouldn't be eligible, so I think the answer is "NO" not purely because he has married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Rimbuman

[transam]

Can an old retired guy like me, married to a Thai get citizenship ?........... ....Eeeeeeeeeeer........Don't think so........

But the other way round Mrs.Trans can in the UK.

What about if relatively rich Thai men wanted to retire in the UK and married young British women in order to do this?

If you were your wife's age and she yours and you were female and she male, it would be easy for you to get Thai citizenship.

That doesn't answer MY question does it........

PS. My Mrs is not a young bird...........

[transam]

The Citizenship "you must have" questions..........Why don't they include "OR" questions..................

1. Has your alien cash taken care of a Thai national over a period of over xxx number of years..........YES

2. Has your alien cash taken care of Thai children because their father doesn't want to spend his Thai cash..............YES

3. Do Thai authorities make it difficult for you as an alien because you spend your alien cash on providing for Thai citizens...........YES

Just a thought..........

[thequietman]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

[Seastallion]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

If I was a Thai national, I would resent you becoming a Thai citizen because you have already admitted to ripping off the tax system.

[Rimbuman]

The Citizenship "you must have" questions..........Why don't they include "OR" questions..................

1. Has your alien cash taken care of a Thai national over a period of over xxx number of years..........YES

2. Has your alien cash taken care of Thai children because their father doesn't want to spend his Thai cash..............YES

3. Do Thai authorities make it difficult for you as an alien because you spend your alien cash on providing for Thai citizens...........YES

Just a thought..........

Sure you are right, this happened and happens to many of us. This is the way it is, but no reason to do nothing because "we can't change our position and place in the Thai society anyway so why bother"

To do nothing keeps us exactly where we are and keeps us there for a long time to come, good excuse to grab another beer and winning on about these selfish unjust Thai.

In most countries we come from, people or groups of people who have problems with unfair rules and indifference unite and form a pressure

group to expose and fight this.

Why can't we do this here?

Actually the timing to do this would be perfect now, because of the already contaminated political situation in Thailand we could benefit from a hitch on the ride of the global media attention Thailand has.

[Issangeorge]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

If I was a Thai national, I would resent you becoming a Thai citizen because you have already admitted to ripping off the tax system.

At least he pays taxes. How many Thai citizens can say the same thing?

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[alanrchase]

Oh yes, just like the joy that is going on in the mid- east.

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[Neeranam]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying mtax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

No, you can't make back payments.

Yes, you can make more tax payments.

[samran]

The Citizenship "you must have" questions..........Why don't they include "OR" questions..................

1. Has your alien cash taken care of a Thai national over a period of over xxx number of years..........YES

2. Has your alien cash taken care of Thai children because their father doesn't want to spend his Thai cash..............YES

3. Do Thai authorities make it difficult for you as an alien because you spend your alien cash on providing for Thai citizens...........YES

Just a thought..........

Sorry mate but you are spouting <deleted>. They aren't the questions. Thai based income is all they care about. That you got from a job with a work permit.

[Seastallion]

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

If I was a Thai national, I would resent you becoming a Thai citizen because you have already admitted to ripping off the tax system.

At least he pays taxes. How many Thai citizens can say the same thing?

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You miss the point. No matter what country you identify with as "home", why would you welcome an immigrant who shows he does not respect the laws of the land? Who in effect takes from the public coffers. To point out that numerous locals also skirt the law is irrelevant

[transam]

The Citizenship "you must have" questions..........Why don't they include "OR" questions..................

1. Has your alien cash taken care of a Thai national over a period of over xxx number of years..........YES

2. Has your alien cash taken care of Thai children because their father doesn't want to spend his Thai cash..............YES

3. Do Thai authorities make it difficult for you as an alien because you spend your alien cash on providing for Thai citizens...........YES

Just a thought..........

Sorry mate but you are spouting <deleted>. They aren't the questions. Thai based income is all they care about. That you got from a job with a work permit.

Think you should read my post again and the subject..............