Some advice for daughter who wants to persue teaching in Thailand

[In Search of Space]

I would appreciate some advice for my daughter. She will be 23 next month and graduating university in UK with a BA in Fine Art and her desire is to become a teacher. She has both UK and Thai nationality (passports and ID card) and speaks reasonable Thai, but cannot read or write. She plans to take an English as a second language course, but wants to be a teacher in Thailand, easiest would be Pattaya area.

I think that if she enters Thailand on a UK passport she will have ot get a work permit, but if she comes in on her Thai pasport she can work and remain without any issue.

How easy would it be for her to get a teaching job, preferably Art ?

Should she enter on Thai or UK passport, I have been told that a UK passport would get a better salary, but that isn't the main point right now, just gaining experience ?

If in Pattaya, she can live at home

Thank you for anything anyone can suggest

[krisb]

I was talking to an english teacher in KK who loves art also. He has started using art to teach English, he has developed his own system. Thais love it. The schools don't agree with this style of teaching but he teaches in a private centre.

Maybe something your daughter could consider and develop her own teaching style.

[In Search of Space]

Thanks, that sounds interesting. She knows one or two "off-the-wall" Thai artists, so perhaps a different style might be nice for everyone

[Scott]

I believe that if your daughter has a Thai passport, she is required to enter Thailand on that passport. That is something to check.

I have interviewed and hired a few Thai nationals who were born or raised overseas and by and large they have made excellent teachers. The Thai admin, however, generally considers them Thai and is reluctant to pay them the foreign salary. I have been able to cut a reasonable deal with a few, but there is resistance.

In a lot of places, everything is based on appearance and the parents complain if their child is being taught by an Asian. Over the years, I have pressured the Admin to actively pursue Thai nationals with overseas experience/education. Thais are better at dealing with other Thais than Foreigners are, generally speaking.

We have had good luck with people such as your daughter acting as coordinators between the Thai and Foreign staff.

Your daughter should have no problem in finding work. She has a degree and she is technically qualified for a provisional teacher's license. The question is can she find a school that will appreciate the positive attributes that she brings to the job and her unique social-linguistic skills and pay her accordingly?

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[In Search of Space]

Thanks Scott, she was born in UK and lets say, 50/50 in appearance. She has quite a bubbly personality, so I hope she can win over any opposition. But I think she is best to come in on Thai passport.

[sirineou]

My wife and many of her friends here in the US have both US an Thai passports, The process when going to Thailand is:

Leave the US with US passport, enter Thailand with Thai passport, leave Thailand with Thai passport, enter US with US passport. Last time we were in Thailand, my wife's friend who leaves near as came to Thailand a couple of days after we came . For some reason she used her US passport to enter Thailand, after we left together to return to the US , she had to pay an overstay fine because on her US passport she only had 30 days permission to stay, We tried to explain to the Thai immigration official that she was Thai and also had a Thai passport but he would hear nothing about it, in the end not to miss her flight paid the fine.

In my for the UK, uneducated opinion, I would say that your daughter would be better off using her Thai passport to avoid Immigration and possible work permit issues.

PS: My Daughter, and Love of my life, from a previous marriage, will be graduating from University in the US in a few years, she is American only, but we were just talking about her coming to Thailand ,stay with me and Teach English for a couple of Years, I think it would be a great experience for her.

[culicine]

I would think she should enter Thailand on her Thai passport, having left the UK on the British one. We have employed, and do employ a number of Thai-foreign teachers, who, by and large, have done a very good job. She may well avoid work permit and immigration issues, but would need to get a teaching licence. The provisional licence is fairly straightforward to get, but the full licence requires a teaching qualification of some description, excluding a TEFL certificate. If she has a BA she can at least qualify for a provisional licence. If employed as a foreign teacher, she would get a better salary than a Thai, and hopefully the same as the other western staff. I would suggest she refrains from using Thai in any interview, though, just to make it quite clear she is a native speaker. Also, always she should use only english with her students. Once they know she speaks Thai, the kids will automatically start using it, especially weaker students. This is my opinion after 15 years here, though others might disagree with this.

She could find work teaching art in an english / bilingual program that offers art in english. Our school used to do that, but after the last foreign art teacher left, they replaced him with a Thai teacher. I would think it's best she does a TEFL certificate (for teaching english) to help wet her feet with teaching. This would best be done in Thailand, as she would be teaching Thais anyway. The TEFL isn't a formal requirement, but it would at least give some classroom experience before working full time. If she picked up a english teaching position in an EP/bilingual schoool, there may be an opportunity to teach art later on. Try to avoid working in Pattaya - salaries there are generally very low.

[thepool]

The "fluffy" degree is NOT a teaching qualification .

Tell her to obtain qualified teacher status in the UK prior to inflicting ignorance on kids .

[schondie]

It's a Catch-22 situation as many schools wanting a foreign teacher don't like to hire Thais / Asians as far I have found, regardless of their qualifications.

A good example is a friend of mine, native Thai with Thai and US passports, his Thai father had him educated in the US but schools never wanted to hire him.

As "thepool" commented - get a proper teaching qualification from the UK and don't waste your time trying to teach ESL. That qualification doubles your salary in the international schools and saves you the headaches of trying to persuade some third rate government school to give you a chance.

All the best to your daughter in her career regardless of what she chooses.

[kurnell]

I know a few Thais born overseas that have worked here and people tend to want to pay them a Thai salary. Best to stick with being a pom and get a better salary. Unless the international schools will give her a go.

[janpharma]

The best to do is getting a TEFL course, it's a nice experience and many schools require it. Then let her take a look at "ajarn.com", this will be a great help to find a job.

[bendywire]

The "fluffy" degree is NOT a teaching qualification .

Tell her to obtain qualified teacher status in the UK prior to inflicting ignorance on kids .

And a "fluffy" teaching degree doesn't make a good teacher. I agree with you in essence but she is looking for experience not a career move. Good luck to her but I fear that she will be treated as a non native and as such be salaried accordingly.

[umbanda]

If your daughter hold an Art degree, she may have a chance to teach in an university. She can look online for Thai universities with art classes and get in contact with its Human Resources offices to send her Resume. She may have a good response. Starting with Rhajabat University and Mae Fah Luang University in Chiang Rai. Great schools!

[saroq]

She can probably get by with her art degree and a short course teaching certificate if she just wants to work in one of the language schools. However, if she's thinking of making a real career out of teaching and wants to work in a proper international school she'll need to get a proper teaching degree. With the studies she has already completed she should be able to do something like a Grad Dip to get that teaching degree status.

[bangkapi]

If she is Caucasian, she can easily find a sh*t job teaching in Thailand. White females are in demand. As you may or may not know, here it is all about appearance. There are literally scores of agents who are searching for girls like her right now to place in schools because of the English teacher shortage. Even if she is unqualified, she can always find work teaching English here. The agents are even less qualified, as most of them are bottom-feeding, non tax paying scavengers finding a way to scrape together some baht to stay here.

[In Search of Space]

Thank you for in general has been very inofrmative. She wants to beocme a teach but as I understand it, she cannot get into the UK system until September 2015, as she graduates in June this year, then she wanted to try to get some experience before starting the teaching course. As she can work in Thailand and her mother is staying in Pattaya (I am working abroad), we both thought it would be a great experience for her.

She is planning to take a TEFL course before leaving UK, but her real interest is teaching Art.

Thanks again, it has been an insight, I'll update you in a few months when she is able to support her poor old Dad so he can retire (sorry, I woke up from a dream there)

[Ulic]

Get her teaching certificate in England. Keeps her options open in the future and is a proper certification.

As previously stated, exit on her British passport enter Thailand on her Thai passport. In Thailand look for

the right situation. Somewhere she will be treated and paid as she should be. Remember you don't get

what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. If they are not willing to pay you appropriately they are

not respecting your background and qualifications.. Better to walk away and look elsewhere. Best of luck.

[Keoni]

Thank you for in general has been very inofrmative. She wants to beocme a teach but as I understand it, she cannot get into the UK system until September 2015, as she graduates in June this year, then she wanted to try to get some experience before starting the teaching course. As she can work in Thailand and her mother is staying in Pattaya (I am working abroad), we both thought it would be a great experience for her.

She is planning to take a TEFL course before leaving UK, but her real interest is teaching Art.

Thanks again, it has been an insight, I'll update you in a few months when she is able to support her poor old Dad so he can retire (sorry, I woke up from a dream there)

Just to clarify, Does she plan to get her TEFL then teach in Thailand for a year and then return to the UK to continue her studies and get her UK teaching credentials?

Where does she want to teach for the long term? (Thailand or UK?)

If she's only planning on teaching in Thailand for a year until she returns to the UK, then TEFL should be sufficient for her to find a job.

If she's planning on teaching long term in Thailand, then she might want to consider taking the CELTA rather than a TEFL. CELTA is going to be more expensive, but can give her an edge getting a job over those with TEFL. Generally CELTA carries a bit more weight with employers than a TEFL. Some employers will even pay a bit more if you have a CELTA rather than TEFL.

And of course, if her goal is to teach art, then getting her teaching qualification in the UK will better her opportunities.

She could review the job postings on teacher sites like ajarn.com or teachergig.com to see what's out there, and what qualifications they're looking for.

Good luck.

[In Search of Space]

Thank you for in general has been very inofrmative. She wants to beocme a teach but as I understand it, she cannot get into the UK system until September 2015, as she graduates in June this year, then she wanted to try to get some experience before starting the teaching course. As she can work in Thailand and her mother is staying in Pattaya (I am working abroad), we both thought it would be a great experience for her.

She is planning to take a TEFL course before leaving UK, but her real interest is teaching Art.

Thanks again, it has been an insight, I'll update you in a few months when she is able to support her poor old Dad so he can retire (sorry, I woke up from a dream there)

Just to clarify, Does she plan to get her TEFL then teach in Thailand for a year and then return to the UK to continue her studies and get her UK teaching credentials?

Where does she want to teach for the long term? (Thailand or UK?)

If she's only planning on teaching in Thailand for a year until she returns to the UK, then TEFL should be sufficient for her to find a job.

If she's planning on teaching long term in Thailand, then she might want to consider taking the CELTA rather than a TEFL. CELTA is going to be more expensive, but can give her an edge getting a job over those with TEFL. Generally CELTA carries a bit more weight with employers than a TEFL. Some employers will even pay a bit more if you have a CELTA rather than TEFL.

And of course, if her goal is to teach art, then getting her teaching qualification in the UK will better her opportunities.

She could review the job postings on teacher sites like ajarn.com or teachergig.com to see what's out there, and what qualifications they're looking for.

Good luck.

Thanks, she plans to do the TEFL course in UK, then come to Thailand, followed by a teaching course in UK starting September 2015. Following that I dont think she is sure what she wants to do, but if the wife (her mother) and I are still in Thailand, she may well want to teach long term in Thailand.

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed and a post with an email address. You may not post personal information or email addresses on the open forum. Especially if it someone else's information. For private information use the PM function.

[culicine]

It's a Catch-22 situation as many schools wanting a foreign teacher don't like to hire Thais / Asians as far I have found, regardless of their qualifications.

A good example is a friend of mine, native Thai with Thai and US passports, his Thai father had him educated in the US but schools never wanted to hire him.

As "thepool" commented - get a proper teaching qualification from the UK and don't waste your time trying to teach ESL. That qualification doubles your salary in the international schools and saves you the headaches of trying to persuade some third rate government school to give you a chance.

All the best to your daughter in her career regardless of what she chooses.

Getting into the top international schools here is not as easy as you think. A PGCE without solid experience won't cut it here.

[rilkithai]

I am agree with everyone here. Entering with Thai passport would be best and make life easier.(no need for visa or visa run which is cost money and time)

However, when she is filling in job application forms and employment record with 13 digit Thai ID. She'll be directly under Thai labour and welfare term which employer might not consider to pay high as foreigner teacher rate for start up with.(But I'm not sure, I may be wrong) unless she has previous teaching experience reference or being specialist.

And she was born in Uk, maybe better to put in her CV and application forms that her nationality is British. Therefore, employer would see that she is native English. I would think, not going to be a problem for her to find teaching jobs in year gap here. I have many English teacher friends both native and non native English in Bangkok. And I think that number of English teachers are still in demand these days though.

[duanebigsby]

Thank you for in general has been very inofrmative. She wants to beocme a teach but as I understand it, she cannot get into the UK system until September 2015, as she graduates in June this year, then she wanted to try to get some experience before starting the teaching course. As she can work in Thailand and her mother is staying in Pattaya (I am working abroad), we both thought it would be a great experience for her.

She is planning to take a TEFL course before leaving UK, but her real interest is teaching Art.

Thanks again, it has been an insight, I'll update you in a few months when she is able to support her poor old Dad so he can retire (sorry, I woke up from a dream there)

You are getting some nasty comments which you should ignore.

I realize that she really wants to teach art but the International schools want a bit more than a BFA.

I have a friend who taught Art in the UK and is teaching English here

He runs his classes as if he were teaching Art. He laughs and says" the kids think they're doing Art but they're learning English."

The kids and fellow teachers love his approach.

If you truly want to teach art you will have to get the Education or MFA degree. But come here, learn to teach and get some experience.

Some TV users have an inexplicable disdain for teachers in Thailand.

[Scott]

A troll post has been deleted as well as replies to it. Please stay on topic and keep your posts civil.

The OP has asked for advice, not for an opinion of teachers in Thailand.

[otherstuff1957]

I have friends who are Thai-American or half British & half Thai. They usually have an easy time finding jobs, but really have to shop around to get the same salary as a White Farang. When leaving the US or UK, they use their US or UK passports. When entering or leaving Thailand they use their Thai passports. If they are asked any questions by the Border officials, they just show both passports.

As for the OP's daughter, she should really stress her English upbringing and be up front about not being able to read or write Thai. This should help establish her as being in the Farang Salary bracket.

As for teaching, I would recommend looking for a private bilingual school or a school with a large EP program. She should try not to use Thai in the classroom, but will find it greatly to her advantage to be able to speak it in the staffroom.

Edited April 23, 2014 by otherstuff1957

[kirstymelb101]

From my own personal experience living and teaching in Thailand, I've never needed work permit or Non-Imm B Visa in order to gain employment. My situation is similar to that of your daughters. I'm 25 years old and I hold dual citizenship from both Australia and Thailand. I can read, write and speak Thai proficiently (well at least I think I can). The school made me sign Thai documents yet I'm paid foreign salary. I believe since your daughter is native, can prove she is proficient in English, and shows her UK passport to the school she will most likelyl receive the same perks as any other foreign teacher. First impression and appearance play a major roll in gaining employment. If she presents herself well, is confident and shows good work ethics she'll gain employment

Edited April 23, 2014 by kirstymelb101

[Mencken]

She is really in a dicey spot. Being both Thai and foreign national have better options but I would lean toward being on a Thai pp as KB stated above and who else better to give her advice yes? No visa, wp hassles.

If she is serious about teaching, have her get a credential in US (or Ed degree) and come her, stick it out for a year or two and go back if its not for her or she can't net a good salary.

Go back to real world, real job, real options.

Thailand is not the place for professionals, esp starting out in careers. For all the bluster of some, the reality is if they had the schooling, major, credential...they would be home earning 3x the income plus benefits.

Thailand is for people winding down.careers, not ramping them up. Of course, its full of washouts as well.

Best to her.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Mencken

[sirchai]

From my own personal experience living and teaching in Thailand, I've never needed work permit or Non-Imm B Visa in order to gain employment. My situation is similar to that of your daughters. I'm 25 years old and I hold dual citizenship from both Australia and Thailand. I can read, write and speak Thai proficiently (well at least I think I can). The school made me sign Thai documents yet I'm paid foreign salary. I believe since your daughter is native, can prove she is proficient in English, and shows her UK passport to the school she will most likelyl receive the same perks as any other foreign teacher. First impression and appearance play a major roll in gaining employment. If she presents herself well, is confident and shows good work ethics she'll gain employment

When will you start at our school? We really need you. -

[AJ Alex]

I have recently been applying for jobs and here is what i think will happen

Your daughter will only be able to teach English (providing she get a TEFL qual)

If she wants to teach art she will have to hit the international schools all of which have finished hiring for the next year

The international school all require a PGCE qual

Internationals pay 45,000-60,000 english jobs pay 30,000

I wish her luck but i'm afraid she will need luck to get an art job even for 30,000

There are always exceptions to the rules but I would bet she will have to teach english first and then think about the PGCE if she wants to teach art

Hope this helps

[samran]

Enter on the Thai passport, negotiate pay as if you are a Brit. Make her aware of likely pay scales for non-Thais so she doesn't get shafted.

What i would do is write off to all the major international schools asking for an interview. At least she might get to teach art then and she'd get good guidance on what she needs to go to get into the proper international system here.

If she is interested in keeping the art up Bangkok has a flourishing scene of young artists both local and international so she should be based there. As a young lass she will have more fun. Otherwise she should be near a town with a major university to keep up with that side of it.