AJ Alex Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hi, Can a school get a fine for hiring teachers with no work permit? My school is trying to shaft financially and they have teachers here with no work permit If I was to tell the police/authorities about this, what would happen? I'm aware of what would happen to the teachers working with no work permit, but I specifically want to know about the consequences the school will have to face (if any) Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sirchai Posted April 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) If I was to tell the police/authorities about this, what would happen? It would just show what a foul apple you are.Seems like you wanna inform the authorities, right? Look into a mirror before and after you did that.- Edited April 28, 2014 by sirchai 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Alex Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 If you knew the reasons behind me considering informing the authorities you would understand, I assure you. This school has been lying to teachers promising them visa and work permit assistance. Then every week just moving the goalpost. Now some teachers have found themselves working without a permit under false promises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angsta Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 If I was to tell the police/authorities about this, what would happen? It would just show what a foul apple you are.Seems like you wanna inform the authorities, right? Look into a mirror before and after you did that.- What the <deleted> is wrong with you? Bad apple?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Alex Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 I am posting on this forum on behalf of a friend. My friend is now looking at a 20,000 baht fine for overstay as the school they work for has lied to them every week about funding and visa assistance. Surely 20,000 out of a 30,000 salary is worthy of appearing like a "bad apple". There is only 1 teacher working at this school with no work permit so it would only be the school that was affected. My question still hasn't been answered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sirchai Posted April 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2014 If you knew the reasons behind me considering informing the authorities you would understand, I assure you. This school has been lying to teachers promising them visa and work permit assistance. Then every week just moving the goalpost. Now some teachers have found themselves working without a permit under false promises There's no reason for you to inform the authorities. Those teachers will have a problem, not the school. If there're a few guys and you report them, might make you look good. But not for long. I was in a similar situation, when working for an agency. When I'd started and none of them had a work permit we informed the school, went on strike and had our work permit in the same week. Just in my opinion, if I'd have reported all guys who were working without a work permit, I'd feel ashamed of myself. Live and let die.- 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Alex Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Ok just to clarify, it's only my friend who has no work permit. Informing the authorities would only be used as a power play to get the school to pay for the overstay fine of 20,000. No other teachers at the school would be affected as they all have work permits. Are there any consequences for schools hiring without a work permit or do all the consequences fall on the head of the employee? Edited April 28, 2014 by AJ Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aidenai Posted April 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2014 Employing a foreign worker who doesn't hold a work permit (section 54) makes the employer liable to a fine between 10,000 and 100,000 Baht per employee. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirchai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I am posting on this forum on behalf of a friend. My friend is now looking at a 20,000 baht fine for overstay as the school they work for has lied to them every week about funding and visa assistance. Surely 20,000 out of a 30,000 salary is worthy of appearing like a "bad apple". There is only 1 teacher working at this school with no work permit so it would only be the school that was affected. My question still hasn't been answered Your posts are really confusing. Please, don't try to tell me that there're people out there who'd just work without, not even a tourist visa? How can anybody blame a school for being on a long overstay? before you wrote a few, now it's only one. Nothing will happen to the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Alex Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Ok maybe my post are confusing because i really don't understand this situation too well. There is only my friend working with no permit just to confirm. So now there is a mix of opinion. I am not going to tell the authorities. I just want to threaten the school with something to get them to cough up for the overstay which is their fault. The school promised visa assistance and now the employee is looking at a 20,000 fine because they did.t renew their visa like all the other schools seem to do without any problem. Thanks for the help so far guys i'm not trying to screw anyone over, i just want things to be sorted in a fair manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Alex Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 aidenai, could you please link me to this section Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirchai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Employing a foreign worker who doesn't hold a work permit (section 54) makes the employer liable to a fine between 10,000 and 100,000 Baht per employee. Aldenai, you are right about it. But there're too many things only theoretically possible. That wouldn't excuse the guy working without a visa. Would you just continue working without a visa, just because they promise to produce the paperwork? I'd think of my visa status first. The fine they'd have to pay has got nothing to do with the overstay fine. It's for working without a permit. PP, they'll all ie about the facts and your friend will be pretty much alone in the end. If they want, there're ways to get him/her deported. Doesn't look like the school has to make visa runs. P..S. You'll have to think about your friend's problem once the ball starts rolling. Good luck, I'm pretty sure that there're hundreds of others in the same situation. Time to have a "Foreign Teachers' Association" in Thailand. But when you look at all the hate between foreigners, it will never happen. Edited April 28, 2014 by sirchai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Scott Posted April 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2014 Most likely little or nothing will happen to the school for this. Your friend, however, will have to pay his overstay and will likely be deported. Very few schools will take responsibility for an overstay. Your compliance with the law is your responsibility. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somchaismith Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I don't know of any school that has employed a teacher already equipped with a work permit. Unless, of course, they are sourced from an agency or language school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaded Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You'd need to go to the Labour office, not the police. The labour office might act on your information, but it depends on the school's relationship with this office and their officers. I agree with Scott, it's more likely only the teacher will be punished although the school is libel to a fine. You'll also be antagonizing the school. They can be malicious if they want to be. It's their ball and their football pitch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realenglish1 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 This is a question of right or wrong. The school is wrong for not providing a work permit The teachers are wrong for continuing to work without a work permit. I would inform the authorities These schools must comply and guess what I have had a visa in good standing for 9 years So why should I have a visa and these teachers who know then dont have visa's continue to work This is just wrong. To the teachers Get another job to the School I hope you can pay the fine coming and to the bloke who is writing this Tell the authorities This is a very pad situation and to the pratts that are reading this and disagree. Too bad you do not understand the rule of Law. Visas are their for a reason To protect everyone Without it all bets are off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The schools fine: max 20K baht. Your fine? Up to 100K baht, 5 years in jail, and deportation. Then you wonder why the schools say, "Don't worry. You no need work permit." No skin off their butts. Edited April 28, 2014 by connda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siampolee Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 So there is a gripe with the employing school? Yes they and your friends and perhaps you too are breaking the law by employing your ''friends'' and you and your friends are breaking the law by subsequent working without a work permit. No doubt all those involved are in possession of all the relevant and necessary documentation and visa's to ensure the smooth and rapid issuance of work permits All those affected have to do is depart their illegal employment to show their distrust of the said school and of course maintain their innocence as no work means no work permit required. Yet you propose to drop your friends into deep mire in your Quixotic quest for justice or revenge. Indeed with friends like you who would need enemies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjablonsky Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Ok maybe my post are confusing because i really don't understand this situation too well. There is only my friend working with no permit just to confirm. So now there is a mix of opinion. I am not going to tell the authorities. I just want to threaten the school with something to get them to cough up for the overstay which is their fault. The school promised visa assistance and now the employee is looking at a 20,000 fine because they did.t renew their visa like all the other schools seem to do without any problem. Thanks for the help so far guys i'm not trying to screw anyone over, i just want things to be sorted in a fair manner >> OK so with all the confusion aside. Most likely nothing will happen to the school. Your friend however will be looking at charges for illegally working in Thailand which will result in additional fines for him/her as well as the risk of deportation and or jail. Geez with friends like you who the f * # $ k needs enimies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schondie Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 sirchai - "Time to have a "Foreign Teachers' Association" in Thailand. But when you look at all the hate between foreigners, it will never happen." I agree with the first part as many schools could be made to act a touch more professionally but it wouldn't work as representatives would be framed for some sort of crime should they step on someone's toes. It's a shame really as many teachers would probably quite gladly pay a small monthly fee to be advised about their rights and responsibilities concerning labour laws etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cruela Posted April 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) unfortunately this does happen, I think reporting this is a very bad and daft thing to do, I am so pleased you are not my friend, some teachers dont even get paid. leave well alone for goodness sake Edited April 29, 2014 by Scott Font 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomatopo Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 If I was to tell the police/authorities about this, what would happen? I'm not certain you understand this, but you will have to present yourself in person to the local Police and/or Ministry of Labour, in order to make them aware of the potential violations. You can't just "drop-a dime" via an anonymous email or phone call. You and your "friend" should be prepared to face a fair amount of scrutiny, and the potential for blow-back on you and your "friend" might be unexpectedly harsh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remobb Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Let's face it, it's you! Anyway, if "your friend" has been working and getting 30K a month then why hasn't he renewed his visa? At the end of the day it is up to the individual to ensure he / she has a visa. If the school does supply it then all well and good. As I said, it's up to you "your friend" at the end of the day. Also did your friend have the correct documents? in many cases these people cannot provide a degree or transcripts making it more difficult for the school. Leave it alone, pay the fine and move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerterry Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Let's face it, it's you! Anyway, if "your friend" has been working and getting 30K a month then why hasn't he renewed his visa? At the end of the day it is up to the individual to ensure he / she has a visa. If the school does supply it then all well and good. As I said, it's up to you "your friend" at the end of the day. Also did your friend have the correct documents? in many cases these people cannot provide a degree or transcripts making it more difficult for the school. Leave it alone, pay the fine and move on. Yes, agreed. I think you need to be sure your friend has the correct documents? This is Thailand! Documents needed vary from one labour office to the next. Does he have a teachers licence? Degree, transcript, thai culture etc etc. If 'your friend' has overstayed it is his/her fault not the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirchai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 This is a question of right or wrong. The school is wrong for not providing a work permit The teachers are wrong for continuing to work without a work permit. I would inform the authorities These schools must comply and guess what I have had a visa in good standing for 9 years So why should I have a visa and these teachers who know then dont have visa's continue to work This is just wrong. To the teachers Get another job to the School I hope you can pay the fine coming and to the bloke who is writing this Tell the authorities This is a very pad situation and to the pratts that are reading this and disagree. Too bad you do not understand the rule of Law. Visas are their for a reason To protect everyone Without it all bets are off You'd inform the authorities and get your "friend" deported. Hope he will bring his friend some decent food, beer, cigarettes and money, while in a cell at the coppers. Unfortunately, friendly people like you would visit him and look after him/her. You stated that you've had a "visa in good standing" for nine years, but you wrote that the school is wrong for not providing a work permit? The employee, as well as the employer have to 'produce"documents to be able to apply for a work permit at the labo(u)r department. Sorry, I didn't understand the second part. Your advice is as wrong as so many words written here. The teacher(s) won't get another job, as they're (he's/she's on a long overstay. That's their/hi/her own fault, as they're he/she(is) illegal in Thailand. Leave him for a couple of months in jail, (happened 3 years ago in Ubon), as nobody of his relatives/friends wanted anything to do with this guy. Guess you meant a bad situation? They do not buy people an airplane ticket, for god's sake. Your last sentence should stay inside your four walls. People who don't agree with you, don't know the visa regulations/ laws? Did you teach English? What a stupid question. looking at your username.I'm just asking, as I do have a huge problem to understand your post. Dear mods,I'm not a grammar freak, but if a guy's posting such a statement, where you hardly understand what he/she's trying to say, then you can't blame a mobile device for it. The OP was asking a for me very serious question, as it seems that the friend isn't his friend. But this world is full of people who seem to get a kick out of hanging others.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Alex Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Ok. I asked a question on this forum to get advice before I made a descision. I was not telling you all what mean plots I am planning, I was trying to see if I had anything I could threaten the school of backstabbers with. I would never report anything that would make a fellow NE teacher face jail time etc... Even if my friend left I would not report the school, I was simply trying to find some leverage. I don't teach english cause the pay is bad and I dont care about grammer. So thank you for that. I care about my friend who has been mislead by an. incompident admin dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirchai Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Ok. I asked a question on this forum to get advice before I made a descision. I was not telling you all what mean plots I am planning, I was trying to see if I had anything I could threaten the school of backstabbers with. I would never report anything that would make a fellow NE teacher face jail time etc... Even if my friend left I would not report the school, I was simply trying to find some leverage. I don't teach english cause the pay is bad and I dont care about grammer. So thank you for that. I care about my friend who has been mislead by an. incompident admin dept. Two letters sound suspicious. Why do you have to write NE speakers? It seems there's more behind it, maybe some problems with guys from an Asian country? You wouldn't hang a fellow NE teacher, but....( leave that open for you..). What's your friend's opinion regarding foreigners who stay illegally in his/your country of origin? Your friend seems to be pretty much incompetent to understand simple things. Always nice to blame others, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsjohnsson Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) I am posting on this forum on behalf of a friend. My friend is now looking at a 20,000 baht fine for overstay as the school they work for has lied to them every week about funding and visa assistance. Surely 20,000 out of a 30,000 salary is worthy of appearing like a "bad apple". There is only 1 teacher working at this school with no work permit so it would only be the school that was affected. My question still hasn't been answered And your friend overstayed so long that he have a 20k fine. And now he blame the school for his overstay???? everyone know that's a lame excuse Edited April 28, 2014 by larsjohnsson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeledge777 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) There are no "legal or illegal" in Thailand. Everything is about money and the schools understand that. They know they can pay little money for the same teacher that they would pay for big money with a work permit. Everything have a price and bribing the police is more affordable than a fully qualified teacher with insurances and other benefits. On the other hand, there is nothing you can do even if you have a work permit and contract. Avoid going to court because not only are you going to lose but your going to lose the face as well. You are not a teacher in Thailand, you are a farang. Never forget that. Edited April 28, 2014 by Angeledge777 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post attrayant Posted April 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'm amazed at all the effort and gnashing of teeth that has gone into deconstructing the poster rather than simply answering his question. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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