Longterm expat, short teaching gig

[strabel23]

As I've said before in this forum, all that better qualifications really do in the teaching business here is give you a better chance at getting all the jobs on offer. As the average job ranges from 25-35K (for TEFL) and 35-45K (for real subjects), you choose your salary range and take your chances. As Ken says, a woman has a better chance these days. Her quals should be fine for any TEFL job (assuming she gets the TEFL cert), and with a few years of actual experience she may even think about moving up into real English teaching (earlier, if she's good).

On another thread, rawumber asks:

Hi, really enjoy reading this forum, and have been doing so for about a year. I have been trying to map out some sort of future for the next few years, and thought about teaching English in Thailand.

I'm 44 without a degree, and not the best understanding of the English language. Would this rule me out of teaching, how skilled do you have to be to teach young Thai children English? I have two children of my own, so I understand what children need in the way of stimulation. I have taught art to large classes of under nines and realise how demanding they can be.

If I was to take a relevant teaching course in Thailand would that equip sombody like myself without a formal education to teach in schools there.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Once again, there are no hard and fast answers. Even though it is terribly agist, racist, and discriminatory, a lot depends on questions such as:

1. How old are you?

2. How dark is your skin?

3. How thick is your accent?

4. How professionally dressed are you?

5. Are you a good actor?

From your written English, I would assume that functionally speaking you should be fine teaching conversational English to just about any age group- a TEFL cert. would help. Who will be willing to hire you depends on luck, your gift of the gab, and the unfair questions listed above.

"Steven"

Hi, I recently popped into a Language training school to inquire bout the TEFL course. I have been living in Thailand for 14 years, ( speak Thai well enough ) and do not have a bachelor's degree. I have had only 2 weeks previous experience helping out while a teacher was away on pregnancy leave. English is my native language.

I was asked how soon could I begin teaching. Apparently this private school was not happy with the current teacher. I agreed with only a one day notice not knowing what to expect. My classes began at 9:15 A.M. for 1 hr. and then again at 12:20 P.M. A total of 18 hrs. per week for 300 bht. per hr.

In the morn. I had to teach 2- 20 min. nursery level classes everyday. The rest of my classes consisted of Prathom 1,2,3,4,5,6,. I had altogether 8 different age groups or levels. On top of this they wanted me to be at the school at 8:00 A.M. everymorn. to give a 20 min. lesson outdoors in front of everyone ( parents etc. ) on the P.A. system.

I refused the 8:00 A.M. call as I was having enough of a challenge trying to determine what level of learning each of the age groups, I was asked to teach, were at. I was not given hardly any resource material and was told to just teach the basics ' Good Morn. etc. ' Then they told me the teachers wanted me to teach from the current years Zoom lesson book of which they had not given me.

To make a long story short after one week they fired me citing that I did not have the capability to teach. ( They already had another teacher in the wing. ) My predecessor was an Amer. retired teacher and journalist so I came to the conclusion that they were more concerned with appearances than anything else. They just wanted to have some foreigners to stand up in front of the parents every morn. to put on a show to garner attention and to attract more students to come learn in their expanding school. Incidentally my classes were 40 + students. I could not move down the aisles without turning sideways ( and I'm not fat ).

My question is this. Was that a normal condition that I should have been prepared for or was I railroaded? I should also mention that the children in 2 of my classes were totally out of control on my first encounter throwing everything around the room and generally not paying attention to nothing.

Steven

[mbkudu]

As I've said before in this forum, all that better qualifications really do in the teaching business here is give you a better chance at getting all the jobs on offer. As the average job ranges from 25-35K (for TEFL) and 35-45K (for real subjects), you choose your salary range and take your chances. As Ken says, a woman has a better chance these days. Her quals should be fine for any TEFL job (assuming she gets the TEFL cert), and with a few years of actual experience she may even think about moving up into real English teaching (earlier, if she's good).

On another thread, rawumber asks:

Hi, really enjoy reading this forum, and have been doing so for about a year. I have been trying to map out some sort of future for the next few years, and thought about teaching English in Thailand.

I'm 44 without a degree, and not the best understanding of the English language. Would this rule me out of teaching, how skilled do you have to be to teach young Thai children English? I have two children of my own, so I understand what children need in the way of stimulation. I have taught art to large classes of under nines and realise how demanding they can be.

If I was to take a relevant teaching course in Thailand would that equip sombody like myself without a formal education to teach in schools there.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Once again, there are no hard and fast answers. Even though it is terribly agist, racist, and discriminatory, a lot depends on questions such as:

1. How old are you?

2. How dark is your skin?

3. How thick is your accent?

4. How professionally dressed are you?

5. Are you a good actor?

From your written English, I would assume that functionally speaking you should be fine teaching conversational English to just about any age group- a TEFL cert. would help. Who will be willing to hire you depends on luck, your gift of the gab, and the unfair questions listed above.

"Steven"

Hi, I recently popped into a Language training school to inquire bout the TEFL course. I have been living in Thailand for 14 years, ( speak Thai well enough ) and do not have a bachelor's degree. I have had only 2 weeks previous experience helping out while a teacher was away on pregnancy leave. English is my native language.

I was asked how soon could I begin teaching. Apparently this private school was not happy with the current teacher. I agreed with only a one day notice not knowing what to expect. My classes began at 9:15 A.M. for 1 hr. and then again at 12:20 P.M. A total of 18 hrs. per week for 300 bht. per hr.

In the morn. I had to teach 2- 20 min. nursery level classes everyday. The rest of my classes consisted of Prathom 1,2,3,4,5,6,. I had altogether 8 different age groups or levels. On top of this they wanted me to be at the school at 8:00 A.M. everymorn. to give a 20 min. lesson outdoors in front of everyone ( parents etc. ) on the P.A. system.

I refused the 8:00 A.M. call as I was having enough of a challenge trying to determine what level of learning each of the age groups, I was asked to teach, were at. I was not given hardly any resource material and was told to just teach the basics ' Good Morn. etc. ' Then they told me the teachers wanted me to teach from the current years Zoom lesson book of which they had not given me.

To make a long story short after one week they fired me citing that I did not have the capability to teach. ( They already had another teacher in the wing. ) My predecessor was an Amer. retired teacher and journalist so I came to the conclusion that they were more concerned with appearances than anything else. They just wanted to have some foreigners to stand up in front of the parents every morn. to put on a show to garner attention and to attract more students to come learn in their expanding school. Incidentally my classes were 40 + students. I could not move down the aisles without turning sideways ( and I'm not fat ).

My question is this. Was that a normal condition that I should have been prepared for or was I railroaded? I should also mention that the children in 2 of my classes were totally out of control on my first encounter throwing everything around the room and generally not paying attention to nothing.

Steven

There are some drastic disparities in the conditions of English language teaching in Thailand. Can I assume that the above conditions were without a work permit? Why would you put up with this sh!t when you can teach a string of private Japanese, Korean or Chinese students throughout the day at 500-600 baht per hour for 1- 2 hours per visit. The Japanese tend to study as a hobby so you have to have quite a few of them during the week, but they all live in the same area in mid Sukhumvit. Expect not more than 1 or two days per week for each client. The Chinese (mostly kids) study a lot more; minimum 2 hours per visit, maybe 2 to 5 days per week. A few of these can add up to a healthy supplement to a regular gig. Why anyone works for less than 500 baht an hour now is beyond me. It's just not worth it for less than that.

[strabel23]

As I've said before in this forum, all that better qualifications really do in the teaching business here is give you a better chance at getting all the jobs on offer. As the average job ranges from 25-35K (for TEFL) and 35-45K (for real subjects), you choose your salary range and take your chances. As Ken says, a woman has a better chance these days. Her quals should be fine for any TEFL job (assuming she gets the TEFL cert), and with a few years of actual experience she may even think about moving up into real English teaching (earlier, if she's good).

On another thread, rawumber asks:

Hi, really enjoy reading this forum, and have been doing so for about a year. I have been trying to map out some sort of future for the next few years, and thought about teaching English in Thailand.

I'm 44 without a degree, and not the best understanding of the English language. Would this rule me out of teaching, how skilled do you have to be to teach young Thai children English? I have two children of my own, so I understand what children need in the way of stimulation. I have taught art to large classes of under nines and realise how demanding they can be.

If I was to take a relevant teaching course in Thailand would that equip sombody like myself without a formal education to teach in schools there.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Once again, there are no hard and fast answers. Even though it is terribly agist, racist, and discriminatory, a lot depends on questions such as:

1. How old are you?

2. How dark is your skin?

3. How thick is your accent?

4. How professionally dressed are you?

5. Are you a good actor?

From your written English, I would assume that functionally speaking you should be fine teaching conversational English to just about any age group- a TEFL cert. would help. Who will be willing to hire you depends on luck, your gift of the gab, and the unfair questions listed above.

"Steven"

Hi, I recently popped into a Language training school to inquire bout the TEFL course. I have been living in Thailand for 14 years, ( speak Thai well enough ) and do not have a bachelor's degree. I have had only 2 weeks previous experience helping out while a teacher was away on pregnancy leave. English is my native language.

I was asked how soon could I begin teaching. Apparently this private school was not happy with the current teacher. I agreed with only a one day notice not knowing what to expect. My classes began at 9:15 A.M. for 1 hr. and then again at 12:20 P.M. A total of 18 hrs. per week for 300 bht. per hr.

In the morn. I had to teach 2- 20 min. nursery level classes everyday. The rest of my classes consisted of Prathom 1,2,3,4,5,6,. I had altogether 8 different age groups or levels. On top of this they wanted me to be at the school at 8:00 A.M. everymorn. to give a 20 min. lesson outdoors in front of everyone ( parents etc. ) on the P.A. system.

I refused the 8:00 A.M. call as I was having enough of a challenge trying to determine what level of learning each of the age groups, I was asked to teach, were at. I was not given hardly any resource material and was told to just teach the basics ' Good Morn. etc. ' Then they told me the teachers wanted me to teach from the current years Zoom lesson book of which they had not given me.

To make a long story short after one week they fired me citing that I did not have the capability to teach. ( They already had another teacher in the wing. ) My predecessor was an Amer. retired teacher and journalist so I came to the conclusion that they were more concerned with appearances than anything else. They just wanted to have some foreigners to stand up in front of the parents every morn. to put on a show to garner attention and to attract more students to come learn in their expanding school. Incidentally my classes were 40 + students. I could not move down the aisles without turning sideways ( and I'm not fat ).

My question is this. Was that a normal condition that I should have been prepared for or was I railroaded? I should also mention that the children in 2 of my classes were totally out of control on my first encounter throwing everything around the room and generally not paying attention to nothing.

Steven

There are some drastic disparities in the conditions of English language teaching in Thailand. Can I assume that the above conditions were without a work permit? Why would you put up with this sh!t when you can teach a string of private Japanese, Korean or Chinese students throughout the day at 500-600 baht per hour for 1- 2 hours per visit. The Japanese tend to study as a hobby so you have to have quite a few of them during the week, but they all live in the same area in mid Sukhumvit. Expect not more than 1 or two days per week for each client. The Chinese (mostly kids) study a lot more; minimum 2 hours per visit, maybe 2 to 5 days per week. A few of these can add up to a healthy supplement to a regular gig. Why anyone works for less than 500 baht an hour now is beyond me. It's just not worth it for less than that.

Thankyou for your comment. Just to add more info I might add that this was a school in Phuket. I do not want to live in Bangkok so am more limited in my choices. The pay rate was acceptable as this was the first real paying job I had received teaching english and I had not taken a TEFL course.

What you have outlined is a far cry better but is it possible to do here in Phuket? To answer your question, yes this was without a work permit but was supposed to be arranged in time.

My question to you is are you currently working as a teacher under the conditions you have outlined?

[mbkudu]

As I've said before in this forum, all that better qualifications really do in the teaching business here is give you a better chance at getting all the jobs on offer. As the average job ranges from 25-35K (for TEFL) and 35-45K (for real subjects), you choose your salary range and take your chances. As Ken says, a woman has a better chance these days. Her quals should be fine for any TEFL job (assuming she gets the TEFL cert), and with a few years of actual experience she may even think about moving up into real English teaching (earlier, if she's good).

On another thread, rawumber asks:

Hi, really enjoy reading this forum, and have been doing so for about a year. I have been trying to map out some sort of future for the next few years, and thought about teaching English in Thailand.

I'm 44 without a degree, and not the best understanding of the English language. Would this rule me out of teaching, how skilled do you have to be to teach young Thai children English? I have two children of my own, so I understand what children need in the way of stimulation. I have taught art to large classes of under nines and realise how demanding they can be.

If I was to take a relevant teaching course in Thailand would that equip sombody like myself without a formal education to teach in schools there.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Once again, there are no hard and fast answers. Even though it is terribly agist, racist, and discriminatory, a lot depends on questions such as:

1. How old are you?

2. How dark is your skin?

3. How thick is your accent?

4. How professionally dressed are you?

5. Are you a good actor?

From your written English, I would assume that functionally speaking you should be fine teaching conversational English to just about any age group- a TEFL cert. would help. Who will be willing to hire you depends on luck, your gift of the gab, and the unfair questions listed above.

"Steven"

Hi, I recently popped into a Language training school to inquire bout the TEFL course. I have been living in Thailand for 14 years, ( speak Thai well enough ) and do not have a bachelor's degree. I have had only 2 weeks previous experience helping out while a teacher was away on pregnancy leave. English is my native language.

I was asked how soon could I begin teaching. Apparently this private school was not happy with the current teacher. I agreed with only a one day notice not knowing what to expect. My classes began at 9:15 A.M. for 1 hr. and then again at 12:20 P.M. A total of 18 hrs. per week for 300 bht. per hr.

In the morn. I had to teach 2- 20 min. nursery level classes everyday. The rest of my classes consisted of Prathom 1,2,3,4,5,6,. I had altogether 8 different age groups or levels. On top of this they wanted me to be at the school at 8:00 A.M. everymorn. to give a 20 min. lesson outdoors in front of everyone ( parents etc. ) on the P.A. system.

I refused the 8:00 A.M. call as I was having enough of a challenge trying to determine what level of learning each of the age groups, I was asked to teach, were at. I was not given hardly any resource material and was told to just teach the basics ' Good Morn. etc. ' Then they told me the teachers wanted me to teach from the current years Zoom lesson book of which they had not given me.

To make a long story short after one week they fired me citing that I did not have the capability to teach. ( They already had another teacher in the wing. ) My predecessor was an Amer. retired teacher and journalist so I came to the conclusion that they were more concerned with appearances than anything else. They just wanted to have some foreigners to stand up in front of the parents every morn. to put on a show to garner attention and to attract more students to come learn in their expanding school. Incidentally my classes were 40 + students. I could not move down the aisles without turning sideways ( and I'm not fat ).

My question is this. Was that a normal condition that I should have been prepared for or was I railroaded? I should also mention that the children in 2 of my classes were totally out of control on my first encounter throwing everything around the room and generally not paying attention to nothing.

Steven

There are some drastic disparities in the conditions of English language teaching in Thailand. Can I assume that the above conditions were without a work permit? Why would you put up with this sh!t when you can teach a string of private Japanese, Korean or Chinese students throughout the day at 500-600 baht per hour for 1- 2 hours per visit. The Japanese tend to study as a hobby so you have to have quite a few of them during the week, but they all live in the same area in mid Sukhumvit. Expect not more than 1 or two days per week for each client. The Chinese (mostly kids) study a lot more; minimum 2 hours per visit, maybe 2 to 5 days per week. A few of these can add up to a healthy supplement to a regular gig. Why anyone works for less than 500 baht an hour now is beyond me. It's just not worth it for less than that.

Thankyou for your comment. Just to add more info I might add that this was a school in Phuket. I do not want to live in Bangkok so am more limited in my choices. The pay rate was acceptable as this was the first real paying job I had received teaching english and I had not taken a TEFL course.

What you have outlined is a far cry better but is it possible to do here in Phuket? To answer your question, yes this was without a work permit but was supposed to be arranged in time.

My question to you is are you currently working as a teacher under the conditions you have outlined?

I understand. I don't know about Phuket. I have never been there. The working conditions I have posted above are common for a teacher who wants to earn extra money to make up for the crap wages they earn in a language school or government school that provides them a work permit, but not really enough of a salary to be happy and content in Thailand. There are some teachers who do privates solely and make a killing as far as teaching goes, 60,000-70,000 baht a month. It's not possible for them to work legally however. I am doing this kind of private work now only very minimally part-time because I am a full-time student here. For many years in the past this is how I filled my work week. I won't go back to this situation though because the future of this kind of work situation isn't stable enough. It might be ok for a retiree, but I have other plans to not waste my life away shifting between sois day in and day out. The only teachers who are going to really get any kind of substantial compensation from working here are the ones who work in legitimate international schools. It is what it is. At least there is an opportunity for those without the qulifications to teach. If I was a young traveler in my 20s, like I was back when, sure I'd do it again. You just have to see that point of no return and stop or change course before it's too late to do something else.

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, Steven, chances are you won't do much better in Phuket than what you cite. Most of the working conditions mentioned on this thread are very Bangkok-centric. You should assume that salaries drop as you get away from Bangkok, *especially* in the tourist zones where backpackers, tourists, etc. cause an artificial reduction in working conditions because of the Thai perception that "a white face is enough."

Furthermore, most schools have a high level of employment BS (see other examples on this thread and in this forum) and you just have to take it or leave it most of the time. Obviously, the level at your school was too high for you, and you left.

MBKudu's information about folks who make a killing doing privates for other international types is accurate, though also more suited for Bangkok- and as he mentions, it has no legality and no future. However, I disagree with him that there aren't ways to make teaching work other than being employed at the most exclusive schools in Thailand or being a private cowboy. There are a few niches and crannies around with decent work for those with a decent academic credentials. However, it takes a few years to work out what they are, and without a college degree you'll have no access to them.

So I'm not sure what the point of your post was, but if it was "is this as good as it gets," I'm afraid that as far as I understand your situation the answer is "yes."

Good luck.

"Steven"

[strabel23]

Thankyou both for your input. I admit I don't have proper credentials and was quite surprised that the agency gave me a school to go teach in so quickly. Maybe they thought if I could speak Thai then that was qualification enough?

I am willing to try it one more time but if I might ask, is there any tips you might have to offer me given that you have an abundance of experience and I have very little.

Thanks,

Steven

[PeaceBlondie]

Steven R, your experience is only slightly unusual. This sort of crud is usually done to newbies in Thailand, not folks who've been here 14 years.

My guess is that you walked in as a warm body ready to teach, just when they had somebody to get rid of, and before they found somebody with proper qualifications. You were a handy but temporary substitute, and their requirements were overbearing. I don't know your age, but us older folks (and some long-term expatriates) quickly recognize a BS level and are glad to get out.

Stuff like this happens all over Thailand, even to experienced Thai Thai career teachers who are subservient servants to their Director.

I'll split this subject off into a separate Teaching thread, because it's not so much about qualifications as experiences that happen....

[sweetbear]

Hi Steven,

I do sympathise with you. I live and work here in Phuket and have quite a lot of Bs that I put up with: Awful text books, teachers demanding that I constantly wear a smile on my face. Students who are either out of control or asleep. The other conditions that you mentioned are similar to mine. Don't take it personally ! I can't speak for other parts of Thailand, but this is my third job in Phuket and all have had similar problems. There are private students to be had here but for this part of the country 400Thb an hour is the average and there is quite a lot of competition out there from other teachers trying to supplement their income.

Hope this helps,

sb

[Ijustwannateach]

Yes, the location is one of the problems- if a lot of people want to be there, then the supply will be high and that depresses the salary. Another way to do things might be to work somewhere with better conditions (Bangkok or the boonies) and take holidays to Phuket like everyone else. Otherwise you pay a premium for such a location.

[PeaceBlondie]

As I prepare to return to Chiang Mai (where it's really tough to make good money without connections and tons of TEFL experience) after a year in Hua Hin (where I never got even an offer for part-time work), Ijustwannateach said it right. Too many expats, tough competition.

[kenkannif]

:There are a few niches and crannies around with decent work for those with a decent academic credentials. However, it takes a few years to work out what they are, and without a college degree you'll have no access to them.

I'd disagree with this personally. It's down to the individual and really has nowt to do with paperwork (although it can help for some work)...a good Thai ability will help, having your head screwed on will also help. I know quite a few non-degree holders earning 60K plus....up to 150K a month...so it's certainly doable. I think it's illegal for companies to have inhouse teachers (as inhouse teachers) so they can employ you as something else....and a degree is not always needed to do this.

We're actually struggling to get teachers in Phuket at the mo, so it might be doable there....still the wages compared to cost of living aren't quite as good as Bangers it seems.

[mbkudu]

We're actually struggling to get teachers in Phuket at the mo, so it might be doable there....still the wages compared to cost of living aren't quite as good as Bangers it seems.

This is what is truly puzzling to me about the TEFL industry here. If you're struggling to fill the demand then maybe you're not offering enough to get the supply you need?

A woman called me today to teach in a school that is just over the other side of the Rama IX

bridge for 350 baht an hour. I don't think so. Many language schools' wages are exactly what they were 10-15 years ago. I guess what keeps the wages suppressed is that there is a sucker born everyday who is willing 'to experience the culture and get by.' Culture is nice, but I've experienced enough of it; I need decent money.

[PeaceBlondie]

mbkudu, it is indeed puzzling, that supply and demand don't work normally in TEFL in Thailand. Apparently, administrators think any salary above 30K or maybe 37K is just outrageous, so instead of raising wages, they hire clearly inferior teachers. I like 20year old Romanian backpackers, I guess, but can they teach English? Chai, khrap.

[sweetbear]

You raise a good point PB. Wages are pretty bad here. I really think that jumping around in a non air conditioned classroom for 250- 300Thb an hour gets old. Even the " better" jobs here barely pay above 30, 000Thb a month in some cases.

Ken, one day we should have a beer and talk about why it's hard to find teachers in Phuket, it's not just the bad wages. I'm thinking about Bangers these days...

All the best to you both.

[Scott]

Some hints for people who don't have a background in teaching: First, make sure you work at a school that does have qualified foreign teachers. These people can help you to "transition" through the crap and the tough times. Otherwise, you get stuck being everything to everybody.

Next: Try to make sure you have a contract which specifies the hours/classes that you will be teaching and what other activities you have to be involved in. If it's not possible, whoever your "agent" is who is helping you may be able to help negotiate a better deal as far as a slowing getting into some of the things, like morning activities etc.

Finally: Be prepared to nicely, but politely say no you can't do that right now. Maybe after a month or so. Try to find out what the priorities are at the school (and yes, usually everything is a priority). Sometimes, even if you can put off standing in front of the microphone in the morning for a few days you can get yourself prepared.

Good luck.

[PeaceBlondie]

Scott's suggestions, above, are great, especially if you've been in the country quite a while, and have a partner who can help you understand some of the offer (without being present at the interview, of course). Finding a school with a lot of expat teachers works well in Bangkok; some have 150 foreign staff. My experiences in northern Thailand were the opposite: I was often the only non-Thai on a campus with 3,300 students and 150 faculty. Literally, the lone stranger.

After two years of commuting 35km each way, 5 days per week, I switched to part-time in Chiang Mai. 14 months ago, with BA, TEFL and two years experience, I was offered three days a week, ten hours per week, non-air conditioned, only farang on the staff, 20 km each way, for -- hold on -- 200 baht per hour. No, no way, even in the depressed teachers' market around Chiang Mai.

Just say"no".

[mbkudu]

for -- hold on -- 200 baht per hour. No, no way, even in the depressed teachers' market around Chiang Mai.

Just say"no".

This is a key statement. Just say no. If more teachers said this, both new and experienced, the wages would have to rise. I won't work for less than 400 an hour in a language school; I don't care where it is. If it's a private, then 500-600 depending on distance. It should go up from there depending on number of students and subject matter.

A major problem is that many people come here to teach and say things like, "I just need enough to get by." Or, "I just need to make enough to be comfortable." These schools feed off of this kind of thinking. This is why the wages won't go up because the schools know there are always going to be monkeys who will work for peanuts.

Edited June 16, 2006 by mbkudu

[Ijustwannateach]

Ken:

I agree that the examples you mention exist- and I know a few of them- but I think there are fewer and fewer of them and as they disappear they are largely being replace by relatively more qualified people. Since it usually takes some time in any case to locate those kinds of opportunities, I'm guessing that over the next 5-10 years they'll become quite rare for anyone who isn't already in them. I think it could easily be true that in 5-7 years those without degrees will only be able to find decent work outside of Bangkok. All guesswork, of course, but I think the trend is there.

"S"

[Ijustwannateach]

for -- hold on -- 200 baht per hour. No, no way, even in the depressed teachers' market around Chiang Mai.

Just say"no".

This is a key statement. Just say no. If more teachers said this, both new and experienced, the wages would have to rise. I won't work for less than 400 an hour in a language school; I don't care where it is. If it's a private, then 500-600 depending on distance. It should go up from there depending on number of students and subject matter.

A major problem is that many people come here to teach and say things like, "I just need enough to get by." Or, "I just need to make enough to be comfortable." These schools feed off of this kind of thinking. This is why the wages won't go up because the schools know there are always going to be monkeys who will work for peanuts.

Unfortunately this is true most of the time for now, but I think we will see a bit more competition and demand for quality coming- parents in the EP/MP market are getting smarter and more selective, and it is still my belief that the number of EP schools is simply too large now for the number of students who could possibly be fluent enough in English to benefit from them. I think that at some point soon the schools who have selected for low cost and low quality will be the losers for it- at least, I hope so.

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Actually with the lack of teachers mate and schools struggling to get teachers I can see it getting easier personally....I mean a few years ago I didn't know many people obtain WPs without a degree, now it seems to be all the rage.

Darling I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

[Loaded]

After two years of commuting 35km each way, 5 days per week, I switched to part-time in Chiang Mai. 14 months ago, with BA, TEFL and two years experience, I was offered three days a week, ten hours per week, non-air conditioned, only farang on the staff, 20 km each way, for -- hold on -- 200 baht per hour. No, no way, even in the depressed teachers' market around Chiang Mai.

Just say"no".

PB. There is a fair amount of well-paid work available in Chaing Mai. For example: Dara Academy employs 29 native-speaker teachers earning 30K/month. In contrast, just 5 years ago they employed less than ten on less than 20K/month. You do need to be in Chiang Mai when the schools are hiring of course. Language school work in Chiang Mai has always been a-few-hours-here-and-a-few-hours-there, but some people I know are doing 40+ hours a week on this basis. As I understand from your posts you're no spring chicken anymore and unfortunately this probably explains your lack of offers as many schools want the bouncy 20/30 somethings. Have you tried the vocational colleges?

[sweetbear]

Ken, you keep winking/ twitching at me like that and I'll agree to anything