Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls

[tezzainoz]

Is it any wonder the reds are angry.

Yellow shirts agenda is keep the reds down, they dont like the future with the reds having more money and more education, the yellows are elitist and will do anything to keep the reds in poverty, or let me say the majority Issan reds.

civil war???

strong reds v mamby pamby yellow white faces

My family have lived in a red village for 5 years

and they think you are total BS in posting

My Thai wife has a Masters degree and owns 2 businesses, she is now looking a buying a house in Hua Hin

That sort of bursts your bubble doesn't it

Tezzainoz, allow me please. You have been told already, your wife and her family does not correspond to all Esaan people or all Thailand.

You are lucky to have a reasonable wife and family, but most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

I really hope civil war won't be the final solution, but nothing will have to be excluded.

sorry it has been pointed out to me that my posting is incorrect

we do not live in a red Village

but live in an area in North Thailand that is considered to be a Red Area

....................

Most of the people that live in our village do not support the Red shirts in fact they are not welcome here

But I agree with the fact we are not representative of all North East Thailand people

but if you read into my posting you will see by saying that you have agree with my posting, in reverse that not every one who lives in the North east of Thailand are red shirt backers

In the next part of you posting you now said

most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

So now you agree their is no freedom of speech, which is a neccesatity if an election is to be democratic and fair

So I agree with you all parties need to accept the 3 major reforms

No 1) we need freedom of speech by all parties in all areas

No 2) Section 102 Enforced

A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

3) All parties yellow and red to abide by the rule of law

wit some basic rules their will be no need for a civil war, unless this down under is what your really want

[newcomer71]

So we know know by there posting who are against a fair new election and a more democratic Thailand

Just another name added to the list

We who? You are making YOUR supposition, and you should speak for yourself.

Your post not make sense

all I said is we can now know who are against Fair elections

and I think by the amount of notes "I like Your Post" shows There are many others who feel the same

But as we practice free speech here unlike the PTP and red shirts you can have your own list

That's all I asked for... From your post I could not understand what you meant for we.

Keep cool bro, life is happy.

[zydeco]

Wow, last time I was there, was April 5th and it was a low density crowd, that peaked for the evening speeches at 50k.

Yeh, I was at that rally. I was about 700m from the front stage on the left (I'm the one in red ), sadly this also meant I was away and didn't have a computer and internet. I've only had full internet for the last few days, and been on 3G smartphone.

Peak was about 8:30pm-10pm on first day, I estimate about 50k (based on density, it was a 1.25km road, with about 2x25m wide sections, so lets say 20m+20m to allow for a bit for stalls and toilets. Low density crowd, the Bangkokpost and Nation drone photos look like a high density 4/m2 but that was density near the front stage and each of the repeater TV screens, between these it was sparse, so overall go for the low density 1/m2 = 1* 40*1250 = 50k tops.

There were some in the park, and some in the east side of the road, but I'm taking those as 0, well at least small enough not to significantly affect a total.

During the quiet of Sunday afternoon it was sparse, 5k to 10k tops. That group was the people who came from Issan, Chiang Mai and some from the South. They had come far for the whole weekend and were camping in the park. During the night it filled up with Central and Bangkok folk (I ask about 20 people, none were Burmese or Cambodia).

Now it's 6pm and it's already full and far far denser.

aska-font.jpg

And not 1 per m2, those walkways across the canal are about 1m wide, thats more like 3-4 people/m2.

The overspill areas is in the top where the circle is, and the east side of Aska road. How many do they have in those?

aksa-back.jpg

They've changed the format too, the left side has no stalls now.

1.25km road * (25+20) * 4 people/m2 = 225,000

That picture only goes from the bottom of the first rise, looking back towards Sai 4. Why don't you guys ever show photos of the other 70 percent of the road, on the other side of the rise? Is it empty? Fizzle, fizzle, flop, flop.

[newcomer71]

Is it any wonder the reds are angry.

Yellow shirts agenda is keep the reds down, they dont like the future with the reds having more money and more education, the yellows are elitist and will do anything to keep the reds in poverty, or let me say the majority Issan reds.

civil war???

strong reds v mamby pamby yellow white faces

My family have lived in a red village for 5 years

and they think you are total BS in posting

My Thai wife has a Masters degree and owns 2 businesses, she is now looking a buying a house in Hua Hin

That sort of bursts your bubble doesn't it

Tezzainoz, allow me please. You have been told already, your wife and her family does not correspond to all Esaan people or all Thailand.

You are lucky to have a reasonable wife and family, but most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

I really hope civil war won't be the final solution, but nothing will have to be excluded.

sorry it has been pointed out to me that my posting is incorrect

we do not live in a red Village

but live in an area in North Thailand that is considered to be a Red Area

....................

Most of the people that live in our village do not support the Red shirts in fact they are not welcome here

But I agree with the fact we are not representative of all North East Thailand people

but if you read into my posting you will see by saying that you have agree with my posting, in reverse that not every one who lives in the North east of Thailand are red shirt backers

In the next part of you posting you now said

most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

So now you agree their is no freedom of speech, which is a neccesatity if an election is to be democratic and fair

So I agree with you all parties need to accept the 3 major reforms

No 1) we need freedom of speech by all parties in all areas

No 2) Section 102 Enforced

A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

3) All parties yellow and red to abide by the rule of law

wit some basic rules their will be no need for a civil war, unless this down under is what your really want

I am not talking about freedom of speech. But about the fact he is trying to let a not elected government to take the power without elections.

That is what fanatical reds won't let pass. I hope to be wrong about both points.

[tezzainoz]

Is it any wonder the reds are angry.

Yellow shirts agenda is keep the reds down, they dont like the future with the reds having more money and more education, the yellows are elitist and will do anything to keep the reds in poverty, or let me say the majority Issan reds.

civil war???

strong reds v mamby pamby yellow white faces

My family have lived in a red village for 5 years

and they think you are total BS in posting

My Thai wife has a Masters degree and owns 2 businesses, she is now looking a buying a house in Hua Hin

That sort of bursts your bubble doesn't it

Oh dear, how very petite bourgeoisie.....

Is this relevant ?

No it isn't unless you read the post that it is answering

they dont like the future with the reds having more money and more education, the yellows are elitist and will do anything to keep the reds in poverty

The relevance is; that not all people who live in North East Thailand are uneducated and poor

[BlueNoseCodger]

I don't understand why the reds waited so long to start protesting in Bangkok. I mean, they waited until Suthep dismantled their government before they decoded to do something about it. So now they are.having a rally on the outskirts of Bangkok, which is going to achieve very little. I wonder if there is something going on behind the scene we're not privy to?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Snipers.

As his numbers plummetted and his supporters abandoned him, the army then stepped in with 10k troops "to keep peace and order".

If army had not come to Bangkok, a smallish mob could easily have removed Suthep than way the Chiang Mai officials cleared the Interior Ministry. As it was, if they'd done that the army would come to his rescue.

This road has special significance, and has no tall buildings. Hence no snipers like 2010. The down side it the access, it's really difficult getting lots of people onto that site in short space of time. They build up over the evening to a peak at about 9m, and then 10pm - 1am they move off site.

Really, all they want is the photo not the confrontation.

[wandasloan]

These repeated warnings of dire consequences from the red shirts have a whiff of desperation about them.

As much desperation as in the ELEVENTH final battle of the yellows?

Look. Both the main belligerents here, and their backers, still think they are going to win. If they didn't, they would be suing for peace the way *actually* desperate people do. One hopes, in fact, that this will happen, and very soon. Otherwise, this time or next time or the time after, it will actually be the final battle - but only for now. Whoever wins better not crow too loudly, because it will only energise the losers MORE to come back and do it again.

I *urge* you to give half as much attention to what Tida (currently) speaking and her ilk are saying today and tomorrow in Thon Buri, because they sound as desperate as The Kamnan - which means not desperate at all.

If you ignore the enemy - in your case the red shirts obviously - you have no idea of their plans or their capability. Kissing them off with "red buffalo" is what the Americans did to the Viet Cong in 1965. It's never a good idea. Never. You ignore "know your enemy" at mortal peril to your cause and you, personally.

.

[tezzainoz]

Is it any wonder the reds are angry.

Yellow shirts agenda is keep the reds down, they dont like the future with the reds having more money and more education, the yellows are elitist and will do anything to keep the reds in poverty, or let me say the majority Issan reds.

civil war???

strong reds v mamby pamby yellow white faces

My family have lived in a red village for 5 years

and they think you are total BS in posting

My Thai wife has a Masters degree and owns 2 businesses, she is now looking a buying a house in Hua Hin

That sort of bursts your bubble doesn't it

Tezzainoz, allow me please. You have been told already, your wife and her family does not correspond to all Esaan people or all Thailand.

You are lucky to have a reasonable wife and family, but most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

I really hope civil war won't be the final solution, but nothing will have to be excluded.

sorry it has been pointed out to me that my posting is incorrect

we do not live in a red Village

but live in an area in North Thailand that is considered to be a Red Area

....................

Most of the people that live in our village do not support the Red shirts in fact they are not welcome here

But I agree with the fact we are not representative of all North East Thailand people

but if you read into my posting you will see by saying that you have agree with my posting, in reverse that not every one who lives in the North east of Thailand are red shirt backers

In the next part of you posting you now said

most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

So now you agree their is no freedom of speech, which is a neccesatity if an election is to be democratic and fair

So I agree with you all parties need to accept the 3 major reforms

No 1) we need freedom of speech by all parties in all areas

No 2) Section 102 Enforced

A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

3) All parties yellow and red to abide by the rule of law

wit some basic rules their will be no need for a civil war, unless this down under is what your really want

I am not talking about freedom of speech. But about the fact he is trying to let a not elected government to take the power without elections.

That is what fanatical reds won't let pass. I hope to be wrong about both points.

Okay so we have found a common area of agreement, because my family agree with this

But the main problem still seems to be there can never be fair elections until Freedom of speech is agreed to all over thailand for both sides

Now if we can only teach the Redshirts and Suthep to agree on their opinions

[Just1Voice]

The senior Democrat politician Korn is also on record as saying that vote buying no longer determines election results and that indeed in the last valid election his party spent more on vote buying than did PT.

You might want to go and find the original quote. Korn did not say he bought votes.

You're half right. I saw the interview, and read the transcripts from it. He didn't say "he" bought votes, he said the Democratic party spent more on vote buying than the PTP, and they still lost, so, in his opinion "vote buying" had/has no bearing on the final vote count.

No, it's still a lie, he said they spent more in the electoral campaign, not in vote buying.

How is it a "lie" when the interviewer was specifically asking him about vote buying, not about overall spending?

[rabas]

I don't understand why the reds waited so long to start protesting in Bangkok. I mean, they waited until Suthep dismantled their government before they decoded to do something about it. So now they are.having a rally on the outskirts of Bangkok, which is going to achieve very little. I wonder if there is something going on behind the scene we're not privy to?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Snipers.

As his numbers plummetted and his supporters abandoned him, the army then stepped in with 10k troops "to keep peace and order".

If army had not come to Bangkok, a smallish mob could easily have removed Suthep than way the Chiang Mai officials cleared the Interior Ministry. As it was, if they'd done that the army would come to his rescue.

This road has special significance, and has no tall buildings. Hence no snipers like 2010. The down side it the access, it's really difficult getting lots of people onto that site in short space of time. They build up over the evening to a peak at about 9m, and then 10pm - 1am they move off site.

Really, all they want is the photo not the confrontation.

This road has special significance, and has no tall buildings. Hence no snipers like 2010. The down side it the access, it's really difficult getting lots of people onto that site in short space of time.

If the access is so tight, don't you think they would be worried about helicopter gunships? Your analysis has some holes in it.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Wow, last time I was there, was April 5th and it was a low density crowd, that peaked for the evening speeches at 50k.

Yeh, I was at that rally. I was about 700m from the front stage on the left (I'm the one in red ), sadly this also meant I was away and didn't have a computer and internet. I've only had full internet for the last few days, and been on 3G smartphone.

Peak was about 8:30pm-10pm on first day, I estimate about 50k (based on density, it was a 1.25km road, with about 2x25m wide sections, so lets say 20m+20m to allow for a bit for stalls and toilets. Low density crowd, the Bangkokpost and Nation drone photos look like a high density 4/m2 but that was density near the front stage and each of the repeater TV screens, between these it was sparse, so overall go for the low density 1/m2 = 1* 40*1250 = 50k tops.

There were some in the park, and some in the east side of the road, but I'm taking those as 0, well at least small enough not to significantly affect a total.

During the quiet of Sunday afternoon it was sparse, 5k to 10k tops. That group was the people who came from Issan, Chiang Mai and some from the South. They had come far for the whole weekend and were camping in the park. During the night it filled up with Central and Bangkok folk (I ask about 20 people, none were Burmese or Cambodia).

Now it's 6pm and it's already full and far far denser.

aska-font.jpg

And not 1 per m2, those walkways across the canal are about 1m wide, thats more like 3-4 people/m2.

The overspill areas is in the top where the circle is, and the east side of Aska road. How many do they have in those?

aksa-back.jpg

They've changed the format too, the left side has no stalls now.

1.25km road * (25+20) * 4 people/m2 = 225,000

That picture only goes from the bottom of the first rise, looking back towards Sai 4. Why don't you guys ever show photos of the other 70 percent of the road, on the other side of the rise? Is it empty? Fizzle, fizzle, flop, flop.

1.25km is the length of the road from the stage to the park. It's not the full road length, it doesn't cover the east section of this road. The photos do cover the section of road.

I made it 2.6 x 500m minus a bit for the stage, say 50m, = 1.25km.

Hence 1.25km * 25+20 *4 = 225000

[BlueNoseCodger]

I don't understand why the reds waited so long to start protesting in Bangkok. I mean, they waited until Suthep dismantled their government before they decoded to do something about it. So now they are.having a rally on the outskirts of Bangkok, which is going to achieve very little. I wonder if there is something going on behind the scene we're not privy to?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Snipers.

As his numbers plummetted and his supporters abandoned him, the army then stepped in with 10k troops "to keep peace and order".

If army had not come to Bangkok, a smallish mob could easily have removed Suthep than way the Chiang Mai officials cleared the Interior Ministry. As it was, if they'd done that the army would come to his rescue.

This road has special significance, and has no tall buildings. Hence no snipers like 2010. The down side it the access, it's really difficult getting lots of people onto that site in short space of time. They build up over the evening to a peak at about 9m, and then 10pm - 1am they move off site.

Really, all they want is the photo not the confrontation.

This road has special significance, and has no tall buildings. Hence no snipers like 2010. The down side it the access, it's really difficult getting lots of people onto that site in short space of time.

If the access is so tight, don't you think they would be worried about helicopter gunships? Your analysis has some holes in it.

Oh and it has airforce provided toilet buses. As I said, I cannot explain the significance, either you understand or your don't.

[binjalin]

many more red shirts than expected - be careful what you wish for

[rabas]

You might want to go and find the original quote. Korn did not say he bought votes.

You're half right. I saw the interview, and read the transcripts from it. He didn't say "he" bought votes, he said the Democratic party spent more on vote buying than the PTP, and they still lost, so, in his opinion "vote buying" had/has no bearing on the final vote count.

No, it's still a lie, he said they spent more in the electoral campaign, not in vote buying.

How is it a "lie" when the interviewer was specifically asking him about vote buying, not about overall spending?

Can you please provide an original reference? I've seen a number of rather bad translations (not you, but English translations posted on sites with strong political leanings either way).

That will settle it, and I too would like to know.

[Soutpeel]

many more red shirts than expected - be careful what you wish for

but not the 1.0 million they promised...

[zydeco]

Wow, last time I was there, was April 5th and it was a low density crowd, that peaked for the evening speeches at 50k.

Yeh, I was at that rally. I was about 700m from the front stage on the left (I'm the one in red ), sadly this also meant I was away and didn't have a computer and internet. I've only had full internet for the last few days, and been on 3G smartphone.

Peak was about 8:30pm-10pm on first day, I estimate about 50k (based on density, it was a 1.25km road, with about 2x25m wide sections, so lets say 20m+20m to allow for a bit for stalls and toilets. Low density crowd, the Bangkokpost and Nation drone photos look like a high density 4/m2 but that was density near the front stage and each of the repeater TV screens, between these it was sparse, so overall go for the low density 1/m2 = 1* 40*1250 = 50k tops.

There were some in the park, and some in the east side of the road, but I'm taking those as 0, well at least small enough not to significantly affect a total.

During the quiet of Sunday afternoon it was sparse, 5k to 10k tops. That group was the people who came from Issan, Chiang Mai and some from the South. They had come far for the whole weekend and were camping in the park. During the night it filled up with Central and Bangkok folk (I ask about 20 people, none were Burmese or Cambodia).

Now it's 6pm and it's already full and far far denser.

aska-font.jpg

And not 1 per m2, those walkways across the canal are about 1m wide, thats more like 3-4 people/m2.

The overspill areas is in the top where the circle is, and the east side of Aska road. How many do they have in those?

aksa-back.jpg

They've changed the format too, the left side has no stalls now.

1.25km road * (25+20) * 4 people/m2 = 225,000

That picture only goes from the bottom of the first rise, looking back towards Sai 4. Why don't you guys ever show photos of the other 70 percent of the road, on the other side of the rise? Is it empty? Fizzle, fizzle, flop, flop.

1.25km is the length of the road from the stage to the park. It's not the full road length, it doesn't cover the east section of this road. The photos do cover the section of road.

length-of-aksa.jpg

I made it 2.6 x 500m minus a bit for the stage, say 50m, = 1.25km.

Hence 1.25km * 25+20 *4 = 225000

Okay, I'll give you credit for your honesty. The map is an accurate portrayal of the road. I'll even give some credit to the UDDers this time. Apparently, they have let the left hand service road remain more or less open--so people can get into their moobahns. They blocked them from their homes last time. But that also means the crowd is not as wide across the road as last time.

[Nickymaster]

Sleazy Robert Amsterdam is on the red stage again. Its not the first time he is part of a civil war so lets see how far Thaksin wants to go.

[Nickymaster]

many more red shirts than expected - be careful what you wish for

How many were expected?

[zydeco]

many more red shirts than expected - be careful what you wish for

How many were expected?

They promised 1 million. Last time, they promised 500,000. It looks like they might top out around 25-30 thousand.

[sweatalot]

....

....

So, you would completely ignore and disenfranchise the millions of rice farmers, tuk-tuk and taxi drivers, the millions of street vendors and mom & pop businesses who pay little to no tax, and who never had the opportunity to get a higher education? In other words, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Thai citizens. Seems like I heard something like this a few years ago. Only those with a Bachelor's Degree could vote. Oh, yeah. PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul. You related to him by any chance?

People with low education can easily be seduced. (See the brainwashed reds)

If you know some facts and understand something about life and policy (I just pretend)

- would you want the way your hard earned tax money goes and your success and future life

be destroyed by seduced puppet voters?

Please understand - I do not want to invalidate those hard working people who were not so lucky to get a better education.

I would like to give them and their children a chance to get better information and education

- so they will not fall prey to red hate PR or any other dishonest seduction (from the "yellows", the "amart" of who and whatever)

Do you understand that democracy can destroy itself if there are at least 51 % illiterate and brainwashed voters?

I am afraid this is what is going on in Thailand right now.

There is also evidence that low educated people tend to violence and aggression instead of discussion and trying to understand

Look at the reds (or statistics of inmates in the US e.g. if you want another example)

[wandasloan]

Oh and it has airforce provided toilet buses. As I said, I cannot explain the significance, either you understand or your don't.

Yes!

I was going to post something and decided I'd better erase it. But anyway, I agree 200%.

.

[bigbamboo]

So Jatuporn is now officially threatening the security of the state by promising a civil war. Isn't it time for the army to step in and protect the state, as they are sworn to do?

It will take more than Jataporn's words to start a civil war simply because too many people have had enough already. If things did get out of hand and the pyromaniacs and men in black get into gear again then the army will be forced to step in and quell the situation. Then as Suthep blusters the bulk of the redshirts will continue to stay at home and the police will disappear into the ether as before.

[givenall]

Yeah; we will use the Cambodian to fight for us

[BlueNoseCodger]

Wow, last time I was there, was April 5th and it was a low density crowd, that peaked for the evening speeches at 50k.Now it's 6pm and it's already full and far far denser.

aska-font.jpg

And not 1 per m2, those walkways across the canal are about 1m wide, thats more like 3-4 people/m2.

The overspill areas is in the top where the circle is, and the east side of Aska road. How many do they have in those?

aksa-back.jpg

They've changed the format too, the left side has no stalls now.

1.25km road * (25+20) * 4 people/m2 = 225,000

That picture only goes from the bottom of the first rise, looking back towards Sai 4. Why don't you guys ever show photos of the other 70 percent of the road, on the other side of the rise? Is it empty? Fizzle, fizzle, flop, flop.

1.25km is the length of the road from the stage to the park. It's not the full road length, it doesn't cover the east section of this road. The photos do cover the section of road.

length-of-aksa.jpg

I made it 2.6 x 500m minus a bit for the stage, say 50m, = 1.25km.

Hence 1.25km * 25+20 *4 = 225000

Okay, I'll give you credit for your honesty. The map is an accurate portrayal of the road. I'll even give some credit to the UDDers this time. Apparently, they have let the left hand service road remain more or less open--so people can get into their moobahns. They blocked them from their homes last time. But that also means the crowd is not as wide across the road as last time.

The significance of these marches, really is who is there.

When I asked people where they came from, they were locals mostly. They filled up and left during the evening from Bangkok and the surrounds. So I assume its the same for Udon than, Khon Khen etc. each of which got very large turnouts. I know my mom was at the UdonThani one, but not the Khon Khen one, and now I'm away I'm not at Aksa this time.

Face it, the reds can raise massive numbers if you take away democracy.

And you can pretend its all Burmese workers, or they're paid to be there, but that's complete garbage. We expect to be paid 1 vote, and it should be clear there are a lot of us! You genuinely lost the last election, you genuinely need to get your electoral act together.

I'm wealthy, I'm old, I should be 'elite' or 'democrat', and yet I voted for PT. They have popular policies that spread the wealth, and expand the economy, and I know it's boring and odd to you, but that is a good thing. Those idiots in their Ferrari, they are clueless. That's just a car. I'm old, I've had many cars, but I wouldn't swap any of them for my rice farmer uncle.

Yet all we hear from your side is "Thaksin Thaksin Thaksin", as if you're living ground hog day, and it's 2006.... and its really tiresome.

You're not taking away our elections, and we're not voting in Abhisit. So if you want to be elected, find someone electable. These coups are a dead end. Without the military, you guys are just some corrupt officials talking garbage to other corrupt officials. Why would we listen?

[Robby nz]

These repeated warnings of dire consequences from the red shirts have a whiff of desperation about them. They are in a corner and seem to know this. They have lost the battle of numbers because their core support is not motivated and seems divided. The momentum and the passion is with the other side. If the army took over tomorrow i doubt there would be much more than a few squeals. Time will tell i suppose.

Desperation or determination..................... to hang to their right to vote?

I have not read of any one who does not want the right to vote

But I know many who want to vote under a Fair Voting system

so please tell us are you for or against a fairer system than what PTP have now

The point many of us have made repeatedly (with citations) is that academic research shows that vote buying has not been a key factor in determining recent Thai general election results. The latest study - admittedly by a fairly junior researcher - corroborates that finding.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/05/01/electoral-integrity-in-thailand/

The senior Democrat politician Korn is also on record as saying that vote buying no longer determines election results and that indeed in the last valid election his party spent more on vote buying than did PT.

So what is the problem the reforms are designed to fix? If there is no vote buying problem, then what can be changed which would make PTP less likely to win? Perhaps, for instance, it is about the kinds of (populist) policies a party is allowed to put forward or the qualifications of the voters. What worries me is that reform actually means bending the rules to achieve a change in power.

I notice that you say your family lived in a red village, without indicating that that included yourself. In the past I too lived in what is effectively a red village in central Isaan full time for 15 months, although at present I do so for only a couple of months per year. All I can say is that our views seem very different.

Yet another twist and turn from a red supporter.

There was no direct need for PT to buy votes as they have control over the village heads and can use intimidation and threats rather than bribes

Korn said that the Dems spent more of the official funding than PT.

There was never any suggestion that any of it was spent on vote buying other than in the twisted minds of red supporters.

The reforms are designed to prevent corrupt practices in ALL electorates giving every a candidate a fair chance to campaign.

As an example of the present situation I post once again :

From a story in the BP where the leader of the association of village heads was quoted as saying that the closure of the interior ministry by protesters was hampering his efforts to help village heads who had been dismissed by provincial governors for showing open support for the anti govt protesters.

That's right village heads are not allowed to associate with or support an opposition on pain of dismissal by the governors who are appointed by the Govt.

As has already been pointed out in section 102 of the constitution there is clear instructions as to who must be banned from entering politics, this must be enforced.

If you didn't read that post go back and have a look and you will see that a fair proportion of those who were in the party and candidate lists for the Feb 2 election should be banned.

[rabas]

Wow, last time I was there, was April 5th and it was a low density crowd, that peaked for the evening speeches at 50k.

Yeh, I was at that rally. I was about 700m from the front stage on the left (I'm the one in red ), sadly this also meant I was away and didn't have a computer and internet. I've only had full internet for the last few days, and been on 3G smartphone.

Peak was about 8:30pm-10pm on first day, I estimate about 50k (based on density, it was a 1.25km road, with about 2x25m wide sections, so lets say 20m+20m to allow for a bit for stalls and toilets. Low density crowd, the Bangkokpost and Nation drone photos look like a high density 4/m2 but that was density near the front stage and each of the repeater TV screens, between these it was sparse, so overall go for the low density 1/m2 = 1* 40*1250 = 50k tops.

There were some in the park, and some in the east side of the road, but I'm taking those as 0, well at least small enough not to significantly affect a total.

During the quiet of Sunday afternoon it was sparse, 5k to 10k tops. That group was the people who came from Issan, Chiang Mai and some from the South. They had come far for the whole weekend and were camping in the park. During the night it filled up with Central and Bangkok folk (I ask about 20 people, none were Burmese or Cambodia).

Now it's 6pm and it's already full and far far denser.

aska-font.jpg

And not 1 per m2, those walkways across the canal are about 1m wide, thats more like 3-4 people/m2.

The overspill areas is in the top where the circle is, and the east side of Aska road. How many do they have in those?

aksa-back.jpg

They've changed the format too, the left side has no stalls now.

1.25km road * (25+20) * 4 people/m2 = 225,000

That picture only goes from the bottom of the first rise, looking back towards Sai 4. Why don't you guys ever show photos of the other 70 percent of the road, on the other side of the rise? Is it empty? Fizzle, fizzle, flop, flop.

1.25km is the length of the road from the stage to the park. It's not the full road length, it doesn't cover the east section of this road. The photos do cover the section of road.

length-of-aksa.jpg

I made it 2.6 x 500m minus a bit for the stage, say 50m, = 1.25km.

Hence 1.25km * 25+20 *4 = 225000

I agree they got a lot of people, but I think your estimates are off, particularly your 4 p/sm. You base this on the bridge. Only for discussion lets call the bridge 15m long. At 4p/ms the bridge would then need 60 people, right? However, you have made classic mistake, the bridge is 2D not a 3D space, with 1 person on each side of the bridge you need to use a width of 2m (extra 1/2 on either side). Just as if you put 4 people on the corner of a square, now double that, you get 6 people, not 8. This is called the edge effect. This leaves you off by another a factor of 2.

With the edge effect, you will now need 120 people on the bridge to support your figures.

Don't see'm, Also note the bridges farther away have almost no people, thus the density away from the stage is less.

78,000. by eye ball.

[Mrgk]

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday ....1, 2, 3...... PTP GONE.

Wednesday ...Yingluck and Cabinet gone.

Thursday ......Yingluck double gone

Friday New Senate with more than 3/5 th majority

= PTP GONE.

The Senate is the only elected body left standing and therefore is in control of Thailand.

PTP must fade away or go to jail

You know perfectly well that the senate is not a fully "elected body" after the 2007 coup constitution. Which is why the Yellows are so fond of it.

[IAMSOBAD]

War is not Civil...neither is Jatuporn.

[Mrgk]

Is it any wonder the reds are angry.

Yellow shirts agenda is keep the reds down, they dont like the future with the reds having more money and more education, the yellows are elitist and will do anything to keep the reds in poverty, or let me say the majority Issan reds.

civil war???

strong reds v mamby pamby yellow white faces

My family have lived in a red village for 5 years

and they think you are total BS in posting

My Thai wife has a Masters degree and owns 2 businesses, she is now looking a buying a house in Hua Hin

That sort of bursts your bubble doesn't it

Tezzainoz, allow me please. You have been told already, your wife and her family does not correspond to all Esaan people or all Thailand.

You are lucky to have a reasonable wife and family, but most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

I really hope civil war won't be the final solution, but nothing will have to be excluded.

sorry it has been pointed out to me that my posting is incorrect

we do not live in a red Village

but live in an area in North Thailand that is considered to be a Red Area

....................

Most of the people that live in our village do not support the Red shirts in fact they are not welcome here

But I agree with the fact we are not representative of all North East Thailand people

but if you read into my posting you will see by saying that you have agree with my posting, in reverse that not every one who lives in the North east of Thailand are red shirt backers

In the next part of you posting you now said

most of the people that is deep red, won't let Suthep pass it.

So now you agree their is no freedom of speech, which is a neccesatity if an election is to be democratic and fair

So I agree with you all parties need to accept the 3 major reforms

No 1) we need freedom of speech by all parties in all areas

No 2) Section 102 Enforced

A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

3) All parties yellow and red to abide by the rule of law

wit some basic rules their will be no need for a civil war, unless this down under is what your really want

I am not talking about freedom of speech. But about the fact he is trying to let a not elected government to take the power without elections.

That is what fanatical reds won't let pass. I hope to be wrong about both points.

Okay so we have found a common area of agreement, because my family agree with this

But the main problem still seems to be there can never be fair elections until Freedom of speech is agreed to all over thailand for both sides

Now if we can only teach the Redshirts and Suthep to agree on their opinions

The irony of a yellow whining about insufficient "freedom of speech" in Thailand...

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[rabas]

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday ....1, 2, 3...... PTP GONE.

Wednesday ...Yingluck and Cabinet gone.

Thursday ......Yingluck double gone

Friday New Senate with more than 3/5 th majority

= PTP GONE.

The Senate is the only elected body left standing and therefore is in control of Thailand.

PTP must fade away or go to jail

You know perfectly well that the senate is not a fully "elected body" after the 2007 coup constitution. Which is why the Yellows are so fond of it.

That's because the system was so heavily abused by electoral fraud. If you really want to blame someone, try Thaksin.