How do I know if it's safe to eat street food?

[ThaidDown]

If there is a group of street stalls selling similar types of food and you have not experienced any of them before then go to the most crowded one. Even if you have to wait for a chair, do not think 'that stall has no one waiting I'll get served quicker there'. The Thais know which stalls are best from experience.

Restaurants are popular, and thus "crowded" for many reasons: cuisine, preparation, location (more foot traffic but higher rents), price. However I doubt that if you polled 100 Thais in a "popular" restaurant that anyone one would offer, "Well, I haven't gotten sick from eating here, yet" as a top ten reason for choosing said establishment. Obviously, more often than not, a "crowded" restaurant is indicative of the type/quality/price of the food on offer rather than the actual or perceived hygiene of the restaurant. There are many "weak links" in the hygiene "chain" from market to mouth, and if you ever seen a street vendor cleaning up after a shift, washing dishes/forks/spoons with street water and dogs lurking nearby hoping for a left-over, but still subject to the "call of nature", you'd understand that "popularity" does not necessarily portend hygiene.

Yes would agree with all of that.

In the quote I did limit it to a group of stalls selling similar foods so rents/foot traffic would be similar.

Also the part of my post that you did not quote said 'That thinking has usually served us well.' indicating that it does not always work.

Just to add that (almost) no roadside food sellers that I've come across would satisfy the 'Western' hygiene standards but over the years I've rarely become sick.

[lvr181]

Street food is amazingly good...cheap...and you get to meet some interesting Thai people...as opposed to going to a farang restaurant...it is also somewhat like playing Russian Roulette...at some point in time...your luck may run out...

I am not sure if your membership status means you are a member who is a senior? If so, then playing Russian Roulette may not be a problem. But for "younger" members enjoy life for a long time to come.

[recycler]

Agree with most, the stalls are generally safe.

For more dangerous are rare dishes of imported foods in foreign restaurants, I once was running to the toilet for days after eating snails in a French restaurant.

For the local food, specially of you like the raw meat dishes take a de-worming once or twice a year just to make sure.

And in all cases stay away from raw or poorly cooked river fish! They can contain the most dangerous parasites that stick!

[Benmart]

Agreed, this works all over the world. Go for stalls, restaurants, etc. that are busy with locals. Not a 100% but in 20 years in Asia I never had anything worse than the trots. I do take a deworming tablet every 6 moths as I like the raw herbs and salads.

Seriously, you can catch worms from raw herbs and salads? That's a new one to me! I knew you could get worms from meat and fish, especially if undercooked, but herbs? How are there worms on herbs?

I don't think so. From webmd.com: "Eating undercooked meat from infected animals is the main cause of tapeworm infection in humans." Although: "It is also possible to contract pork tapeworms from foods prepared by an infected person. Because tapeworm eggs are passed with bowel movements, a person who doesn't wash hands well after wiping and then prepares food can contaminate the food."

Nothing about getting worms from eating raw herbs/salads. Reference: http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tapeworms-in-humans

In addition to poor personal hygiene is the obvious contamination of such herbs/salad products while still in the field in the form of animal and human excrement. Food carts often have limited access to fresh water and so wash large quantities of veggies in the same water. There is not so much of the more beneficial rinsing.

Additionally, for all these posters who love to brag about their Thainess that have been eating this way for decades, there is a fairly common practice for vendors (and more for their wholesale suppliers) to spray formaldehyde as a food preservative. It has been written up with some regularity in the press in the past couple years.

Thailand lacks the food quality standards and regulations of the western world. This includes the use of pesticides and herbicides and fungicides on agricultural products that are no longer allowed in the west. In other words, there are immediate concerns like the trots and then there are long term concerns that are not always recognized.

Bon appetit.

Good points. I've seen very few street stalls that have access to running water or that use soap and water to clean utensils.

Stationary restaurants, while not an absolute quarantee of good hygiene, generally have access to dish washing facilities as well as toilets and hand washing stations. E-Coli, if ingested, can ruin ones day very quickly.

[Krataiboy]

You've already got them. Apparently, we all have. But fortunately most are harmless and some are even beneficial. Fact of life. Live with it. Best to avoid dodgy pork. Tapeworms grow up to 30 feet long!

[slipperylobster]

Watch how the wash and dry the cooking/serving utensils...that will be the deciding factory on whether you get sick or not. My gal is Thai, ate food down our street once, and got sick immediately. Happened at the second vendor the next time. I came up with an idea that the food was probably ok, but the pots/pans/utensils, plates were at fault. Then I stuck around until closing and seen them wash everything in the same bloody dirty water they keep in a big bucket next to them. Not much rinsing..and swiped dry with a greasy cloth.

[ClutchClark]

You've already got them. Apparently, we all have. But fortunately most are harmless and some are even beneficial. Fact of life. Live with it. Best to avoid dodgy pork. Tapeworms grow up to 30 feet long!

Are you talking about parasites or bacteria?

[slipperylobster]

Perhaps not parasites...but definitely ...something. In Mexico we call it Montezuma's revenge....and, being a retired Marine...I do know why.

[Suradit69]

There ca be no certinty in life

I have been eating Thai street food for 2 millenia

"I have been eating Thai street food for 2 millenia"

I've heard of a Turk who lived to 162, which was attributed to his diet of yogurt, but living 2000 years because of street food is surely an all time record.

RubbaJohnny, on 12 May 2014 - 17:01, said:

Vegetarian food removes many of the risks of trichinosis,seafood and fish hazards

Agreed. But I wouldn't trust any sign or menu that says vegetarian food. Thais don't really understand the concept, which is broth wholly made from vegetable sources with tofu or other TVP as protein. Witness the 7-11 "vegetarian" Hong Kong noodle take-home meal that has ham in it. Or "vegetable" dishes that have bits of pork or shrimp in them. Surprise surprise.

"Thais don't really understand the concept,"

Checked this out with all 67 million of them have you? Or are you extrapolating from a few examples that fit in with your point of view? The white man's burden is such a heavy load to bear trying to school the natives, hmmm?

Edited May 13, 2014 by Suradit69

[slipperylobster]

The kitchen....

Care to inspect?

[ClutchClark]

"I have been eating Thai street food for 2 millenia"

I've heard of a Turk who lived to 162, which was attributed to his diet of yogurt, but living 2000 years because of street food is surely an all time record.

It could be the formaldehyde--which is a preservative used in embalming. ;-)

[ClutchClark]

Watch how the wash and dry the cooking/serving utensils...that will be the deciding factory on whether you get sick or not. My gal is Thai, ate food down our street once, and got sick immediately. Happened at the second vendor the next time. I came up with an idea that the food was probably ok, but the pots/pans/utensils, plates were at fault. Then I stuck around until closing and seen them wash everything in the same bloody dirty water they keep in a big bucket next to them. Not much rinsing..and swiped dry with a greasy cloth.

How about Hepatitis A. I have read BKK has a 22% seroprevalence rate, although recent data suggests it is in decline.

HAV is usually transmitted through infected food, infected water and close person-to-person contact. Hepatitis A can affect anyone. In areas of poor sanitation, or where disposal of sewage is poor, hepatitis A can become common due to dirty (contaminated) water and food. This means you may become infected with hepatitis A by eating uncooked food prepared or washed in contaminated water, or by drinking contaminated water.

Similarly, other food (uncooked fruits and vegetables), water and milk products that have not been properly cleansed (cooked, purified or pasteurized) can also be a source of transmission. In some eating establishments that do not follow health department code, HAV has been know to spread from infected food handlers to restaurant patrons.

To keep from spreading the hepatitis infection to others. Don't share dishes and eating utensils. Wash dishes and utensils in boiling water, an automatic dishwasher.

---------

Transmission vectors with street vendors include failing to sterilize plates and silverware in boiling water as well as failure to thoroughly wash and rinse veggies, etc..

Food for thought ;-)

Edited May 13, 2014 by ClutchClark

[slipperylobster]

Yep, you can even get sabotaged at the better places in farangland......if you get snotty with the service/cook.....they get snotty right back.

But, I will always smile and leave a decent tip....and keep with the places I know.

A quick look at the kitchen (or what is behind the vendors cooking area) will tell you if they are interested in public health ...or just profit.

[transam]

Just think for a moment the strict refrigerationand cleanliness regulations in farangland, and why they are there..........

Edited May 13, 2014 by transam

[cchina184]

A lesson learned the hard way, out cold on the bathroom floor after passing out and cracking my head. The cooked food I am not afraid of. The raw cabbage or lettuce sold with it, especially if washed in the river downstream from an elephant camp, caveat emptor.

[mickjn]

It is very simple Sir.You see 3 different guys selling food for the back of motor bikes,they are doing a little bit of business.Then another guy pulls up and all the Thais come out with bowls and he makes soup etc for them.That is who you buy from.A beautiful Thai Lady that came out of the hairdressers taught me that many years ago,I will help you this good,this good,this no good for a Farang to hot.I paid for her soup,she has given me many haircuts and it has been a great journey and still going strong.

[RedQualia]

A couple of random thoughts.

- The sickest I've ever gotten from food includes at a nice, "upscale" restaurant in Mae Hong Song, and another time, from eating a chicken thai/leg bought at Sunday Walking Street in Chiang Mai. Both incidents occurred many years ago, now. Perhaps my system is more used to the local foods. Otherwise, no troubles with the stomach.

- I stay away from the fruit carts, and especially those selling fruit that's already been cut up. It's almost impossible to know how long ago that fruit was cut up, how long it's been baking in the sun inside that plastic box cart, or how long it's been since that plastic box cart was last cleaned. Some articles from a few years ago did report quite a few problems with those carts: "Results of the study found 67 per cent of 153 samples of fresh fruit contained unsafe amounts of coliform bacteria." http://www.cbc.ca/news/bangkok-vendors-fruit-may-contain-bacteria-1.964350

- About the hepatitis post above: no doubt true. Which is why I'm vaccinated for hep-A, hep-B, and really, have had most of the vaccinations available/applicable for living in SE Asia (excepting Japanese encephalitis, which was recommended against in my case, and TB). Should the dengue fever vaccine prove effective, I'll be happy to get that one too. The TB vaccine is a mixed bag... Less effective in countries near the equator. Maybe only 50%. If one has had the vaccine, however, one will generally thereafter test positive for TB, necessitating a chest X-ray forever after for proper detection. Still, I do think about that TB vaccine, every time I'm on the skytrain during rush hour.

I'm digressing. Sorry. My belief is just that given where I (we) live, vaccines are a really good idea, and the more the better. Your feelings may vary, but something to think about. regular (annual, or semi-annual) treatment for parasites also seems quite a good idea here. The nurses working at the Thai hospital where I went for my work permit a few years back assured me that if I had lived here for any length of time at all, that no matter how careful or hygienic I might have been, it was pretty much a certainty that I had parasites.

Enough.

[Bpuumike]

Stay way from raw, uncooked foods. Or salad dressings with mayonnaise. Eat freshly cooked meat. Don't eat from the stacks of chicken sitting on the side with flies all over it. And, not from the lady wiping her nose with her hands as she de-husks the corn. I don't eat street food very much, but I've never been sick from it. However, I have been sick from some very popular restaurants in Thailand.

Also be choosy late afternoon/early evening. Seafood, pork, chicken, etc might kave been sitting out unrefrigerated the whole day but you can usually tell just by looking. We used one stall more than ohers but after several bouts of 'Bangkok belly' this seemed to be the cause and have had no problems elsewhere since.

[Brian Robson]

Coming from a microbiologist, avoid all standing bowls of soups/noodles etc. You don't know if they were made an hour ago or three days ago.

Cooking may kill bacteria, but does not always destroy toxins already produced by bacterial growth in warm conditions.

Seafoods, especially clams, oysters and raw prawns are especially risky and can carry nasty liver parasites!

If the food is BBQd in front of you it's probably OK.

A friend's Thai wife is currently in Bangkok hospital after eating clams, and every time the girlfriend goes to BKK she gets sick from street food!

[ClutchClark]

A couple of random thoughts.

- The sickest I've ever gotten from food includes at a nice, "upscale" restaurant in Mae Hong Song, and another time, from eating a chicken thai/leg bought at Sunday Walking Street in Chiang Mai. Both incidents occurred many years ago, now. Perhaps my system is more used to the local foods. Otherwise, no troubles with the stomach.

- I stay away from the fruit carts, and especially those selling fruit that's already been cut up. It's almost impossible to know how long ago that fruit was cut up, how long it's been baking in the sun inside that plastic box cart, or how long it's been since that plastic box cart was last cleaned. Some articles from a few years ago did report quite a few problems with those carts: "Results of the study found 67 per cent of 153 samples of fresh fruit contained unsafe amounts of coliform bacteria." http://www.cbc.ca/news/bangkok-vendors-fruit-may-contain-bacteria-1.964350

- About the hepatitis post above: no doubt true. Which is why I'm vaccinated for hep-A, hep-B, and really, have had most of the vaccinations available/applicable for living in SE Asia (excepting Japanese encephalitis, which was recommended against in my case, and TB). Should the dengue fever vaccine prove effective, I'll be happy to get that one too. The TB vaccine is a mixed bag... Less effective in countries near the equator. Maybe only 50%. If one has had the vaccine, however, one will generally thereafter test positive for TB, necessitating a chest X-ray forever after for proper detection. Still, I do think about that TB vaccine, every time I'm on the skytrain during rush hour.

I'm digressing. Sorry. My belief is just that given where I (we) live, vaccines are a really good idea, and the more the better. Your feelings may vary, but something to think about. regular (annual, or semi-annual) treatment for parasites also seems quite a good idea here. The nurses working at the Thai hospital where I went for my work permit a few years back assured me that if I had lived here for any length of time at all, that no matter how careful or hygienic I might have been, it was pretty much a certainty that I had parasites.

Enough.

An excellent post on all counts...especially the suggestion about vaccinations. I would encourage everyone in BKK to stop by the Red Cross:

http://johnnyvagabond.com/budget/save-hundreds-travel-shots/

I guess I am a hypocrite, though, because I stop at my local fruit cart vendor each morning. I arrive while he is just cutting up his fruit and placing it in the glass display. Not even enough time for the fruit to get chillled.

And parasites are much worse than bacterial infections in my humble opinion--atleast when down in Central America. ;-(

And lastly, the photo is from a movie starring the Duke?

Edited May 13, 2014 by ClutchClark

[wooloomooloo]

My only caveat with the "where all the Thais eat" mantra is the few times in LOS that I have been food poisoned, my wife has remained unaffected. My wife could withstand a nuclear winter with her constitution.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Suradit69]

Perhaps not parasites...but definitely ...something. In Mexico we call it Montezuma's revenge....and, being a retired Marine...I do know why.

"... and, being a retired Marine...I do know why."

Are you saying you're a retired Mexican marine? Or a US Marine who was stationed in Mexico and fed food from street vendors? I don't see the connection between being a marine and ??? ... Montezuma or street food or diarrhea or revenge... well maybe revenge.

I thought US military were just fed crap shipped in from the US and prepared in their isolated cordoned off pseudo American quarters, although I guess there's no shortage of food poisoning in the US.

"...In Mexico we call it Montezuma's revenge"

"We" who? Surely Mexicans don't call it that. Maybe "we" also call it Delhi belly, and Turkey trots ...or G.I. Trots (which has nothing to do with the military either).

Edited May 13, 2014 by Suradit69

[RedQualia]

And lastly, the photo is from a movie starring the Duke?

Completely off topic. I don't expect this reply to last more than say, 30 minutes, but the actor is Jack Elam. Good at getting gunned down in a great many movies. Search for his name on youtube. Sample:

Edited May 13, 2014 by RedQualia

[wileycoyote]

Agree,if lots of office workers there & happy ,probably regulars & they enjoy

[wandasloan]

This has been a popular question, as you can imagine, here over the years. And I;m not sure there is any universally "correct" answer.

And it applies to ALL food, from all sources. That includes hugely expensive restaurants in luxurious hotels, and it applies to the "very safe, hygienic" American-style scrubbed-down fast-food restaurants. Over the past several years in the United States, many of the major food poisoning outbreaks have come from sprouts! And almost all case were home-prepared dishes, although many from high-class salad bars.

Food that is cooked thoroughly at very high temperatures in front of your eyes is undoubtedly the safest you'll get, whether on the street, at home or in a posh restaurant.

The error implied in the OP and carried through to many posts is that "dirty" food is to blame because street carts are icky. But even if there is dirt, dirt won't poison you. It's what's under the dirt.

I thought one of the first answers was best, that if you see the cook prepare the food in boiling water (noodle soup, say) or deep fry it (fried chicken, say) you have the very best chance of all food of not having a nasty result.

.

[cooked]

Visit to Egypt years so. About half of the guests that ate European food in the hotel because they had heard tales were ill. Those of us that couldn't pay the fancy prices ate street food and were ok. Why? I think because Egyptian food is often 'overcooked'. No salads or 'al dente' in Egg wiped cuisine .

[slipperylobster]

Perhaps not parasites...but definitely ...something. In Mexico we call it Montezuma's revenge....and, being a retired Marine...I do know why.

"... and, being a retired Marine...I do know why."

Are you saying you're a retired Mexican marine? Or a US Marine who was stationed in Mexico and fed food from street vendors? I don't see the connection between being a marine and ??? ... Montezuma or street food or diarrhea or revenge... well maybe revenge.

I thought US military were just fed crap shipped in from the US and prepared in their isolated cordoned off pseudo American quarters, although I guess there's no shortage of food poisoning in the US.

"...In Mexico we call it Montezuma's revenge"

"We" who? Surely Mexicans don't call it that. Maybe "we" also call it Delhi belly, and Turkey trots ...or G.I. Trots (which has nothing to do with the military either).

Go to the back of the classroom and study some history.....

Montezuma's revenge is well documented...and is a term that we can use in Asia as well

From the halls of montezuma to the shores of tripoli

...Opening line to the US Marine Hymn

montezuma was a bit angry with u.s. marines, by the way

frrom wikipedia.

"The Halls of Montezuma" refers to the Battle of Chapultepec, during the Mexican American War, where a force of Marines stormed Chapultepec Castle.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/montezumas-revenge.html

as for the "we" part being Mexican or a US serviceman in Mexico....well Mr Flunkpunkit, figure that part out yourself.

i give you a D minus in accuracy, literature, and common sense

Ignorance is not a tool ...find somebody to sharpen you.

Edited May 13, 2014 by slipperylobster

[hanno]

A 5-star hotel in a SE Asian country did a huge Christmas gala diner 20 years back. As it was one of the first western place in that city back then, pretty much all the expats went. 200 people ended up sick, some had to be medevaced to BKK and Singapore.

For a week, the hotel denied all responsibility, implying that by some coincidence all these foreigners must have eaten in the same noodle shop. They finally caved in, turns out it was the imported fish pate.

So you take your chances anywhere.

[Bigfarang1948]

Can hardly believe you asked this question. What do you want the vendor to do; place a food inspection certificate on his cart? I mean, really, you are only going to know if you try, don't you think?

[ClutchClark]

And it applies to ALL food, from all sources. That includes hugely expensive restaurants in luxurious hotels, and it applies to the "very safe, hygienic" American-style scrubbed-down fast-food restaurants.

The error implied in the OP and carried through to many posts is that "dirty" food is to blame because street carts are icky. But even if there is dirt, dirt won't poison you. It's what's under the dirt.

I would have to take exception to your post if You are saying that because restaurants with "very safe, hygienic" standards can also spread food poisoning that this means an "icky" dirty facility is off the hook?

There is a reason that restaurants in First World countries have strict codes for hygienic standards and it was not just deceloped on a whim. It was because food preparation that is conducted in a dirty icky environment indicates systemic poor practices not only in cleaning the floors of dirt, but in a casual disregard or ignorance whin it comes to cleaning plates & silverware and cutting boards and prep surfaces and the actual food items. There is a direct correlation between proper hygienic standards and outbreaks of food borne illnesses. If you trace the agent back to its source in these high end restaurants with hygienic facilities, you will find it was the direct result of a failure to maintain a clean work environment at some stage of the preparation every time.

Great example: Scotland and deadly e. coli outbreak caused by a local Butcher named John M Barr.