Most gun-loving: Americans vs Thais

[thailiketoo]

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

You wrote, "For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course)." Darned if I can figure out what you mean. I know not all is not 100% but what percent did you mean by, "Not all of them?"

92.3% of Texans and 8.4% of Rhode Islanders. That's all I've given thought to... I can work on the other 48 if you'd like.

Thirty-nine percent of the American population admit to owning a gun and keeping one in their home.

What percentage of households in Texas own a gun?

35.9%, according to a 2001 study - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp... Wyoming has the highest reported percentage, with 59.7% household ownership.

http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-people-own-guns-in-texas

Edited May 16, 2014 by thailiketoo

[phoenixdoglover]

Now some results from a Gallup poll that give insight into gun ownership in the US

• Non-Hispanic whites (33%) are significantly more likely than nonwhites (22%) to own guns. Hispanics (18%) in particular show below-average gun ownership. Twenty-one percent of blacks own a gun.
• Younger Americans (20%) are much less likely to own guns than older Americans. There are only minor differences among adults 30 and older by age group (ranging between 31% and 34%).
• Gun ownership is much higher among those who are politically conservative (39%) than among those who are politically liberal (17%)
• The highest rates of gun ownership are among married, southern men (64%).
• Educational attainment and income are not big factors.

[Docno]

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

You wrote, "For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course)." Darned if I can figure out what you mean. I know not all is not 100% but what percent did you mean by, "Not all of them?"

92.3% of Texans and 8.4% of Rhode Islanders. That's all I've given thought to... I can work on the other 48 if you'd like.

Thirty-nine percent of the American population admit to owning a gun and keeping one in their home.

What percentage of households in Texas own a gun?

35.9%, according to a 2001 study - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp... Wyoming has the highest reported percentage, with 59.7% household ownership.

http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-people-own-guns-in-texas

Sorry, I wasn't more clear. The numbers I gave were pulled from an orifice and were entirely facetious. I didn't see the relevance of providing percentages, so gave a non-serious answer. Apologies for any inconvenience caused....

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[neverdie]

You can always count on a gun thread to generate a lot of argument.

Hello, my name is Dave and I'm an American. (Hello, Dave!) - that's a little American humor.

I try to stay pragmatic when it comes to the gun issue. So here goes.

The US Constitution has the 2nd Amendment which our Supreme Court has interpreted to mean that most citizens and legal immigrants have the right to bear arms. This is the law, and we are a nation of laws.

Many people love guns, and they offer various reasons for owning guns. In 21st century America, some of those reasons are downright weird. But the law does not require you to have a credible reason to own a gun. (and we are a nation of laws...)

I have never owned a gun; I'm not a hunter or a sport shooter, and I have never needed any weapon to protect myself in any situation. I have lived in a dozen or so places in the US, including some of the largest cities. Staying away from violence is easy 99.99999 percent of the time. People who give their primary reason for owning a gun as personal protection seem to be living in a different America, full of dangers. One guy in a post above suggested you need guns to protect yourself from wild animals, including skunks and snakes. His risk assessment is different from mine, and I have spent plenty of time hiking in wilderness areas.

I understand some people want to protect themselves from very rare occurrences while otherwise participating in proven risky behaviors without hesitation. Such is the compartmental nature of the brain.

I am accepting of all these foibles. What I do not accept is the current opposition to simple changes in law that would directly address some proven problems. The most glaring of these is the wide differences in gun laws (and enforcement regimes) from State to State, which makes it possible in a day's travel to go from a place with strict regulation to a place without, secure a handful of guns, and return. It is a well documented fact that any adult can buy guns at gun shows in many States and not be subject to any kind of background check (this is the "gun show loophole" applying to private sales, which are a large percentage of total sales in some places). This loose situation results in gun trafficking...all well documented and an obvious bad problem.

But we can't do anything about it in terms of new laws, because we as a nation are so polarized, and so whipsawed by big money influences in politic and the media, that our legislators are stuck in gridlock. It is a crying shame, and a blot on our legacy.

Now I am sure you will get some counter arguments about some of the things I have said. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and men who love guns have many strong opinions. For those who are willing to compromise, we can have a healthy debate. For the rest, I feel sorry; your fear and anger often are palpable.

Hi Dave, Welcome !

What a well balanced and well thought out post, thanks for sharing.

[thailiketoo]

Also, most of the western world just can't understand Americans' fear and paranoia concerning their government. None of us come from places that have a perfect government, but we're content to let our imperfect electoral systems take care of that. I think few people in well-established democracies outside of the US actually fear that one day their government could morph into a tyranny focused on oppressing its people ... we've developed too much for that... our democratic systems and values have strong foundations now. OK - I can't say it's impossible, but I think it highly unlikely that any of the well-established western democracies (including the US) could slip back into the tyranny that you so much fear. But this seems to be the bogeyman that gun advocates always haul out from under the bed to assert their 'right to bear arms'.

Doc, Very insightful argument.

Except the tyranny has already taken over. The education system is trashed and critical thinking is no longer taught. Health care is a joke. The government is for sale to the highest bidder and that's why all of the Americans have come to Thailand. Thailand understands that's why the rich folk hire the side with the tanks.

Elections don't mean poop here. It's the guys with the biggest guns who get to write the laws, control courts and write new constitutions.

[ClutchClark]

I can't think of a single way in which an American would be allowed to own an MK47.

You are also lacking knowledge about why Americans own "other military devices." Try tracking with the thread and understand that Americans are prepared to stand up to their government if ever needed. Even the liberal anti-gun Senate wouldn't vote for Obama's "assault rifle ban" because they knew the would be voted out of office by mainstream, ordinary Americans.

Are we talking about Obama's watered down version of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban that expired after 10' years and was not renewed? The law passed in 1994 without nearly the hoopla and paranoid rantings of gun enthusiasts that occurred with Obama's recent attempt to write similar legislation. Why is that?

In part, its because there is a new breed of gun owner in the US. They crave assault style rifles, they buy suppressors, they feel the need for hi-cap mags. They are a new segment of the gun owning society. They buy their women pink handguns and rifles as if a firearm is a fashion accessory. They fear they are going to be attacked by groups of armed assailants in the night. The gun culture has changed.

But so has the NRA. It has become far more powerful since 1994--but even then the NRA was so radical it supported a cop killer like Claude Lafayette Dallas. They have a hit list for politicians that did not vote loosely on gun control and the NRA puts them in the crosshairs and uses their vast political influence to stop those politicians from being re-elected. Most of these are Republican incumbents--and it is this fear of reprisal from the NRA and not the fear of reprisal of constituents that elected politicians are most afraid of.

You will have to excuse me, I came of age in an earlier generation. Grew up hunting. Shot my first pheasant with a single-shot .410 at such an early age that my dad would probably be arrested for child endangerment today. Grew up in a culture of gun safety amongst men who enjoyed finely crafted firearms and good dogs.

Those men, the ones that haven't passed, look with sorrow at the hunting magazines today that advertise AR-type weapons for hunting because these old men grew up priding themselves on making kills with one shot. They wonder where writers like Gene Hill have gone. The gun culture I am from don't believe in suppressors and they don't believe there is a need for the average citizen to have high-cap mags.

Many were farmers and ranchers and some were retired LE (as I believe you made mention earlier).

They were not concerned when Clinton passed the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and they were not against Obama's more recent version (except for a dislike of the man himself) because they don't see why anyone living in a country as great as the US should need something like that. They tear up when they hear of children being massacred in schools.

They were mainstream American gun owners. Not one of them ever mentioned in any conversation we ever had about a need to protect ourselves from our own Government. Most were WW2 vets and loved America dearly.

So you might speak for some gun owners and you might speak for some Americans but you sure don't speak for a majority.

Regards

Edited May 16, 2014 by ClutchClark

[RigPig]

I never touched a weapon before military service at age 18 . And never touched a gun later and I'm in my 40's now.

But my native country is Norway, not the US . To carry a weapon there you need a special license , only police and military are allowed to carry guns, And hunters with rifles also need a special license.

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

With a gun I believe.....sort of says it all doesn't it? No one was armed except the bad guy....

[ClutchClark]

I never touched a weapon before military service at age 18 . And never touched a gun later and I'm in my 40's now.

But my native country is Norway, not the US . To carry a weapon there you need a special license , only police and military are allowed to carry guns, And hunters with rifles also need a special license.

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

With a gun I believe.....sort of says it all doesn't it? No one was armed except the bad guy....

RigPig,

You ever heard that expression "can't see the forest through the trees"?

Sometimes it helps to take a step or two back...you might give it a try.

[neverdie]

Like so many you have read little about the US, it's history and the logical reasons to have a firearm.

Within the last few decades, Mountain Lions and bears have attacked Joggers, Bicyclists and Homeowners.

A friend who lives in Korat has a home in Northern California. While 'back home' he has seen bobcats, skunks and Mountain Lions in his yard. In many rural states, firearms do not require a permit and both open and concealed carry are legal.

Consider Alaska in the winter - concealed carry keeps the weapon in operation (not frozen).

Many states are full of dangerous wild animals - Moose, Buffalo, Deer, Wild Boar, Bear, Mountailn Lions, snakes, et. al. all continue to kill folks. Boar are an increasing problem, spreading from States to State.

To go into the wilds of the US without a firearm can be considered stupid.

You would be wrong about me, in your assumption (first line).

In another post I made on this topic, I briefly acknowledged these very issues you address.

Of corse absolutely nobody needs an MK47 or other type military device to deal with these situations.

I can't think of a single way in which an American would be allowed to own an MK47.

You are also lacking knowledge about why Americans own "other military devices." Try tracking with the thread and understand that Americans are prepared to stand up to their government if ever needed. Even the liberal anti-gun Senate wouldn't vote for Obama's "assault rifle ban" because they knew the would be voted out of office by mainstream, ordinary Americans.

Perhaps I should of been more specific, I'm talking Automatic weapons and some semi automatic weapons.

Very emotive subject for you and others, I understand, however I am tracking the thread fine thanks and I keep hearing about how Americans are prepared to stand up to their government, but it's more hot air than anything.

You see, it's like an alcoholic, the one that hasn't admitted he's got a problem yet. Just keep,denying the problem and it will go away.

I wonder how many school children and innocent women and children need to be slaughtered before the gun totling fools will give an inch and perhaps concede there are better ways.

My thoughts are with the brave men and women of your police forces and deputy departments that are in constant harms way to the excessive degree just so the NRA loonies and co. can keep twirling their weapons around.

Amusing enough is the comment about the right to defend oneself. Most people are severely lacking the skills and training that goes with being able to successfully to do so. For example, if you have your piece strapped in its holster and someone approached you quickly with a knife, how many feet do you think you would need in order to remove your weapon from it's resting position, aim and fire at the assailant? Let me tell you the answer to that might surprise you, which is one of the reason that so many police are injured each year by bladed weapons. Most the loonies packing the weapons probably lack the skills to defend themselves anyway. The amount of training, specialist training in many areas takes hundreds of hours to perfect and continued practise to keep it up. I wonder how many people are injured or killed by their own weapons, it's not just about shooting the bad guys, it comes down to things like weapon retention, how to clear blocked rounds, firearms safety, retention and so forth. Most gun owners wouldnt last nano seconds up against trained military and police personnel in conflict, the hours these guys put in makes it second nature. The point about protecting oneself from the govt is virtually mute. Comical but mute, nevertheless.

Anyway, clearly some people can't be advised, instructed, educated or swayed, so run along to your mirror, admire how much strength that shiney piece of metal gives you and next time you see innocent teenagers slaughtered and spread across your television screens, give yourself a little pat on the back, each one of you assisted these tragedies to continue and you can continue to live the great American dream.

Sad but true.

[neverdie]

I never touched a weapon before military service at age 18 . And never touched a gun later and I'm in my 40's now.

But my native country is Norway, not the US . To carry a weapon there you need a special license , only police and military are allowed to carry guns, And hunters with rifles also need a special license.

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

With a gun I believe.....sort of says it all doesn't it? No one was armed except the bad guy....

RigPig,

You ever heard that expression "can't see the forest through the trees"?

Sometimes it helps to take a step or two back...you might give it a try.

It's actually,

" Can't see the Forest for the trees"

[balo]

I never touched a weapon before military service at age 18 . And never touched a gun later and I'm in my 40's now.

But my native country is Norway, not the US . To carry a weapon there you need a special license , only police and military are allowed to carry guns, And hunters with rifles also need a special license.

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

With a gun I believe.....sort of says it all doesn't it? No one was armed except the bad guy....

It doesnt say anything, every country has a few mental people that should be locked up for good.

The police that came to the island was armed according to the procedures.

It won't happen again for another 70 years.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

I can't think of a single way in which an American would be allowed to own an MK47.

You are also lacking knowledge about why Americans own "other military devices." Try tracking with the thread and understand that Americans are prepared to stand up to their government if ever needed. Even the liberal anti-gun Senate wouldn't vote for Obama's "assault rifle ban" because they knew the would be voted out of office by mainstream, ordinary Americans.

Are we talking about Obama's watered down version of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban that expired after 10' years and was not renewed? The law passed in 1994 without nearly the hoopla and paranoid rantings of gun enthusiasts that occurred with Obama's recent attempt to write similar legislation. Why is that?

In part, its because there is a new breed of gun owner in the US. They crave assault style rifles, they buy suppressors, they feel the need for hi-cap mags. They are a new segment of the gun owning society. They buy their women pink handguns and rifles as if a firearm is a fashion accessory. They fear they are going to be attacked by groups of armed assailants in the night. The gun culture has changed.

But so has the NRA. It has become far more powerful since 1994--but even then the NRA was so radical it supported a cop killer like Claude Lafayette Dallas. They have a hit list for politicians that did not vote loosely on gun control and the NRA puts them in the crosshairs and uses their vast political influence to stop those politicians from being re-elected. Most of these are Republican incumbents--and it is this fear of reprisal from the NRA and not the fear of reprisal of constituents that elected politicians are most afraid of.

You will have to excuse me, I came of age in an earlier generation. Grew up hunting. Shot my first pheasant with a single-shot .410 at such an early age that my dad would probably be arrested for child endangerment today. Grew up in a culture of gun safety amongst men who enjoyed finely crafted firearms and good dogs.

Those men, the ones that haven't passed, look with sorrow at the hunting magazines today that advertise AR-type weapons for hunting because these old men grew up priding themselves on making kills with one shot. They wonder where writers like Gene Hill have gone. The gun culture I am from don't believe in suppressors and they don't believe there is a need for the average citizen to have high-cap mags.

Many were farmers and ranchers and some were retired LE (as I believe you made mention earlier).

They were not concerned when Clinton passed the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and they were not against Obama's more recent version (except for a dislike of the man himself) because they don't see why anyone living in a country as great as the US should need something like that. They tear up when they hear of children being massacred in schools.

They were mainstream American gun owners. Not one of them ever mentioned in any conversation we ever had about a need to protect ourselves from our own Government. Most were WW2 vets and loved America dearly.

So you might speak for some gun owners and you might speak for some Americans but you sure don't speak for a majority.

Regards

Are you an American? You wrote, "So you might speak for some gun owners and you might speak for some Americans but you sure don't speak for a majority." Because you are writing like you are an American but you don't know anything about America. I don't understand.

[chuckd]

<snip>

In any such case, clearly you seem happy with the sailing going ons in the USA. Sadly, whenever I see events unfolding over there with a massacre or whatever, it's NEVER (maybe seldomly) resolved by the 'Armed civiling forces' and nearly always resolved by the poor police officers and deputies that have to risk their lives to bring a haunt to the death and destruct. The reality to this must be, that a lot of the gun spinners and cowboys merely turn on their heals and bolt when push comes to shove, In fact perhaps their perceived feeling of safety (as is yours) is nothing more than just a misconceived feeling.

<snip>

It might also be important to point out that nearly all of the recent massacres have taken place in "Gun free" zones.

Since "gun spinners" and "cowboys" are legal gun carriers, they are prone to obey laws...ergo, they are not walking around with their legal weapons in "gun free" zones.

As the old saying goes...When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

[neverdie]

^ and around and around we go 555555

and there will always be those sort of examples chuckd and I. not even trying to suggest NRA members are doing the shooting but what I am saying is there is a MAJOR problem there and it needs to be tackled hard, part of that will involve removing some of the weapons for the people and whilst other weapons will remain regulation and structure will assist in keeping weapons,out of the wrong hands.

It becomes increasingly difficult I the states due to border related problems and I am the first to admit that crooks in Oz have guns, virtually not a night or day goes past in Oz where the police and customs authorities arnt seizing weapons. It's never ending.

However, there's a problem there (& here in Thailand) and it's as obvious as the nose on ya face

[Seastallion]

I read many U.S.A. newspapers every day. Most murders are commited by people with names that are not of American or European origin.The same with the victims. The gangbangers are gun crazy. One night in Detriot makes a hard man humble.

Or how about the southside of Chicago. These are not Americans.

South Side Chicago; 93%, Detroit 83% African Americans.

African Americans are not Americans? Your pointy white hat and burning cross is glaringly obvious. Do you have swastika tattoos and a skinhead too? It's little wonder you are a gun supporter.

[ClutchClark]

Most Thais out in the sticks use guns for hunting and actually eating what they have killed. American's its just a case of extending their manhood.

I may just have opened a can of worms but we are all entitled to an opinion.

They like to extend their manhood so the women will like them.

Interestingly enough, few women are actually impressed by a man's "firepower" in America nearly as much as his male buddies and co-workers are. Most wives are not even aware of how much money is spent or the number of weapons in her husband's collection or they would insist on having far more money spent on jewelry and vacations.

So American men are motivated by that same adolescent insecurity of who has the biggest pecker in the gym locker room. When a guy gets a new gun he displays it for his buds and may let them "handle" it. He spends much time lubricating it (dry lube tho) and meticulously looking for imperfections. He is always looking for the hottest "load".

He spends much time on forums dedicated to firearm "porn" where he will converse with complete strangers on who has the most powerful gun and why his gun is better and sometimes fantasizing about other men's guns and hoping one day he might get his hands on one that size.

But impressing the ladies is not really part of the motivation...most women just wouldn't understand his desire like his buddies do.

Are you the guy that said all Americans must own guns? Well, this time better check into gun oil and cleaning procedures (dry lube?). And, most estimates put the number of American women who own guns between 12 million and 15 million.

TLT, please accept my apologies, I gave you the credit of a sense of humor.

;-)

Edited May 16, 2014 by ClutchClark

[chuckd]

You would be wrong about me, in your assumption (first line).

In another post I made on this topic, I briefly acknowledged these very issues you address.

Of corse absolutely nobody needs an MK47 or other type military device to deal with these situations.

I can't think of a single way in which an American would be allowed to own an MK47.

You are also lacking knowledge about why Americans own "other military devices." Try tracking with the thread and understand that Americans are prepared to stand up to their government if ever needed. Even the liberal anti-gun Senate wouldn't vote for Obama's "assault rifle ban" because they knew the would be voted out of office by mainstream, ordinary Americans.

Perhaps I should of been more specific, I'm talking Automatic weapons and some semi automatic weapons.

Very emotive subject for you and others, I understand, however I am tracking the thread fine thanks and I keep hearing about how Americans are prepared to stand up to their government, but it's more hot air than anything.

You see, it's like an alcoholic, the one that hasn't admitted he's got a problem yet. Just keep,denying the problem and it will go away.

I wonder how many school children and innocent women and children need to be slaughtered before the gun totling fools will give an inch and perhaps concede there are better ways.

My thoughts are with the brave men and women of your police forces and deputy departments that are in constant harms way to the excessive degree just so the NRA loonies and co. can keep twirling their weapons around.

Amusing enough is the comment about the right to defend oneself. Most people are severely lacking the skills and training that goes with being able to successfully to do so. For example, if you have your piece strapped in its holster and someone approached you quickly with a knife, how many feet do you think you would need in order to remove your weapon from it's resting position, aim and fire at the assailant? Let me tell you the answer to that might surprise you, which is one of the reason that so many police are injured each year by bladed weapons. Most the loonies packing the weapons probably lack the skills to defend themselves anyway. The amount of training, specialist training in many areas takes hundreds of hours to perfect and continued practise to keep it up. I wonder how many people are injured or killed by their own weapons, it's not just about shooting the bad guys, it comes down to things like weapon retention, how to clear blocked rounds, firearms safety, retention and so forth. Most gun owners wouldnt last nano seconds up against trained military and police personnel in conflict, the hours these guys put in makes it second nature. The point about protecting oneself from the govt is virtually mute. Comical but mute, nevertheless.

Anyway, clearly some people can't be advised, instructed, educated or swayed, so run along to your mirror, admire how much strength that shiney piece of metal gives you and next time you see innocent teenagers slaughtered and spread across your television screens, give yourself a little pat on the back, each one of you assisted these tragedies to continue and you can continue to live the great American dream.

Sad but true.

As you are not an American and probably not current on events there, you must have missed this little item recently:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Dept. of Agriculture issues request for .40 cal submachine guns

Joe Newby

Policy & Issues Examiner

May 15, 2014

Earlier this month, the U.S. Department of Agriculture issued a solicitation request for an undisclosed number of .40 caliber submachine guns, Guns Save Lives reported Thursday.

According to the request, the federal agency is seeking weapons that are either semi-automatic or fire 2-shot bursts. The weapons should also be equipped with tritium night sights on the front and rear and rails for attaching a flashlight and scope. According to the request, the firearms should also have either a folding or collapsible stock and a 30-round magazine. The request also says weapons should have an oversized trigger guard for gloved operation.

http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-dept-of-agriculture-issues-request-for-40-cal-submachine-guns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does the Department of Agriculture need automatic weapons at its disposal?

The only logical answer I can come up with is some GS13 bureaucrat recently watched that old movie, "The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" and suddenly decided something had to be done.

Or could this be just another over-reach by this administration to gather even more power in Washington, DC.

January 20, 2017 can't get here soon enough.

[thailiketoo]

I read many U.S.A. newspapers every day. Most murders are commited by people with names that are not of American or European origin.The same with the victims. The gangbangers are gun crazy. One night in Detriot makes a hard man humble.

Or how about the southside of Chicago. These are not Americans.

South Side Chicago; 93%, Detroit 83% African Americans.

African Americans are not Americans? Your pointy white hat and burning cross is glaringly obvious. Do you have swastika tattoos and a skinhead too? It's little wonder you are a gun supporter.

In 1960, the richest per capita city in America, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, was Detroit.

Today, Sixty percent (60%) of all of Detroit’s children are living in poverty. Fifty percent of the population has been reported to be functionally illiterate. Thirty-three percent (33%) of Detroit’s 140 square miles is vacant or derelict. Eighteen percent (18%) of the population is unemployed

[RigPig]

I never touched a weapon before military service at age 18 . And never touched a gun later and I'm in my 40's now.

But my native country is Norway, not the US . To carry a weapon there you need a special license , only police and military are allowed to carry guns, And hunters with rifles also need a special license.

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

But unlike the US we never have to worry about getting shot by strangers in public places, schools, malls etc. Its rare to see a gun, and even police are walking around unarmed .

Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in EU , except in 2011 when that mad man killed 70 teens.

With a gun I believe.....sort of says it all doesn't it? No one was armed except the bad guy....

RigPig,

You ever heard that expression "can't see the forest through the trees"?

Sometimes it helps to take a step or two back...you might give it a try.

Ever heard the expression "It only takes one time".....

[ClutchClark]

As you are not an American and probably not current on events there, you must have missed this little item recently:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Dept. of Agriculture issues request for .40 cal submachine guns

Joe Newby

Policy & Issues Examiner

May 15, 2014

Earlier this month, the U.S. Department of Agriculture issued a solicitation request for an undisclosed number of .40 caliber submachine guns, Guns Save Lives reported Thursday.

According to the request, the federal agency is seeking weapons that are either semi-automatic or fire 2-shot bursts. The weapons should also be equipped with tritium night sights on the front and rear and rails for attaching a flashlight and scope. According to the request, the firearms should also have either a folding or collapsible stock and a 30-round magazine. The request also says weapons should have an oversized trigger guard for gloved operation.

http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-dept-of-agriculture-issues-request-for-40-cal-submachine-guns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does the Department of Agriculture need automatic weapons at its disposal?

The only logical answer I can come up with is some GS13 bureaucrat recently watched that old movie, "The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" and suddenly decided something had to be done.

Or could this be just another over-reach by this administration to gather even more power in Washington, DC.

January 20, 2017 can't get here soon enough.

The USFS (Forest Service) is overseen by the USDA and it has a large law enforcement division.

A good example of what Federal Land Agencies are up against is the recent armed stand-off in NV between Bundy and militias vs the BLM, since some of the public land that Bundy was trespassing his cattle on was Forest Service Land.

But if you want to believe in conspiracies...have at it.

[chuckd]

^ and around and around we go 555555

and there will always be those sort of examples chuckd and I. not even trying to suggest NRA members are doing the shooting but what I am saying is there is a MAJOR problem there and it needs to be tackled hard, part of that will involve removing some of the weapons for the people and whilst other weapons will remain regulation and structure will assist in keeping weapons,out of the wrong hands.

It becomes increasingly difficult I the states due to border related problems and I am the first to admit that crooks in Oz have guns, virtually not a night or day goes past in Oz where the police and customs authorities arnt seizing weapons. It's never ending.

However, there's a problem there (& here in Thailand) and it's as obvious as the nose on ya face

There are many instances where criminal acts have been stopped by legally armed citizens.

My comment concerning the massacres occuring in gun free zones had to do with this part of your earlier post, which I quoted.

"The reality to this must be, that a lot of the gun spinners and cowboys merely turn on their heals and bolt when push comes to shove, In fact perhaps their perceived feeling of safety (as is yours) is nothing more than just a misconceived feeling."

In other words, the "gun spinners" and "cowboys" were unarmed at these massacres. Only the police (and the bad guys) had weapons.

[Seastallion]

I read many U.S.A. newspapers every day. Most murders are commited by people with names that are not of American or European origin.The same with the victims. The gangbangers are gun crazy. One night in Detriot makes a hard man humble.

Or how about the southside of Chicago. These are not Americans.

South Side Chicago; 93%, Detroit 83% African Americans.

African Americans are not Americans? Your pointy white hat and burning cross is glaringly obvious. Do you have swastika tattoos and a skinhead too? It's little wonder you are a gun supporter.

In 1960, the richest per capita city in America, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, was Detroit.

Today, Sixty percent (60%) of all of Detroit’s children are living in poverty. Fifty percent of the population has been reported to be functionally illiterate. Thirty-three percent (33%) of Detroit’s 140 square miles is vacant or derelict. Eighteen percent (18%) of the population is unemployed

Interesting and sad, but how does that relate to a white supremacist's view that they are not American's?

[neverdie]

But if you want to believe in conspiracies...have at it.

"Have at it" ?????

..... and you reakon I'm a strange bugga

[Docno]

Well, I didn't generalise. Please refer to bolded statement above.

"I see it the same as how you would react if someone just decided to say "you can't have books anymore" and tried to take them all away from you."

Yep.... Not many people outside of the US would draw a parallel between guns and books. I think you've made my argument for me. Thanks.

You wrote, "For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course)." Darned if I can figure out what you mean. I know not all is not 100% but what percent did you mean by, "Not all of them?"

92.3% of Texans and 8.4% of Rhode Islanders. That's all I've given thought to... I can work on the other 48 if you'd like.

Thirty-nine percent of the American population admit to owning a gun and keeping one in their home.

What percentage of households in Texas own a gun?

35.9%, according to a 2001 study - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp... Wyoming has the highest reported percentage, with 59.7% household ownership.

http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-people-own-guns-in-texas

Sorry, I wasn't more clear. The numbers I gave were pulled from an orifice and were entirely facetious. I didn't see the relevance of providing percentages, so gave a non-serious answer. Apologies for any inconvenience caused....

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Of course, the clue should have been the figure I gave for Texas : 92.3%. That would mean an awful lot of gun toting toddlers :-)

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chuckd]

As you are not an American and probably not current on events there, you must have missed this little item recently:

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U.S. Dept. of Agriculture issues request for .40 cal submachine guns

Joe Newby

Policy & Issues Examiner

May 15, 2014

Earlier this month, the U.S. Department of Agriculture issued a solicitation request for an undisclosed number of .40 caliber submachine guns, Guns Save Lives reported Thursday.

According to the request, the federal agency is seeking weapons that are either semi-automatic or fire 2-shot bursts. The weapons should also be equipped with tritium night sights on the front and rear and rails for attaching a flashlight and scope. According to the request, the firearms should also have either a folding or collapsible stock and a 30-round magazine. The request also says weapons should have an oversized trigger guard for gloved operation.

http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-dept-of-agriculture-issues-request-for-40-cal-submachine-guns

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Why does the Department of Agriculture need automatic weapons at its disposal?

The only logical answer I can come up with is some GS13 bureaucrat recently watched that old movie, "The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" and suddenly decided something had to be done.

Or could this be just another over-reach by this administration to gather even more power in Washington, DC.

January 20, 2017 can't get here soon enough.

The USFS (Forest Service) is overseen by the USDA and it has a large law enforcement division.

A good example of what Federal Land Agencies are up against is the recent armed stand-off in NV between Bundy and militias vs the BLM, since some of the public land that Bundy was trespassing his cattle on was Forest Service Land.

But if you want to believe in conspiracies...have at it.

It was federal land that he and his family had run cattle on since the 1800s. He had paid for grazing rights but stopped paying the federal government when the land came into dispute between the feds and the state of Nevada.

That was the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) that attempted the Bundy takeover...and some even consider it a good reason to keep the Second Amendment. By the way, the BLM owns 81.1% of the land mass of Nevada. Can you conjure up any reason why this is the case?

[wandasloan]

Perhaps I should of been more specific, I'm talking Automatic weapons and some semi automatic weapons.

Why? Automatic weapons are not legally owned and pretty well not owned at all by Americans. Almost no American gun owner wants an automatic weapon. Why are you talking about a mythical beast in a discussion about reality?

Have another go, only with facts this time.

It might also be important to point out that nearly all of the recent massacres have taken place in "Gun free" zones.

Since "gun spinners" and "cowboys" are legal gun carriers, they are prone to obey laws...ergo, they are not walking around with their legal weapons in "gun free" zones.

As the old saying goes...When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

My daughter attends university on a campus with concealed carry. No one knows which students, professors and visitors are carrying guns, or if anyone is . She says it is so-o-o-o peaceful.

It is the main campus of quite a large state university by the way, well over 30,000 undergraduates alone, not some little private school.

.

.

Edited May 16, 2014 by wandasloan

[wwest5829]

Regarding the first reply>> dear god please tell me you are being sarcastic.

silly topic but im bored and feel like hearing myself clack away.

Although I wouldn't use the word "love", I get your general point and the answer isn't even close.

Americans have a deep historical connection to guns.

They were the tools that helped free them from the clutches of the monarchy.

Have you ever realized you forgot to wear your watch after leaving the house and felt naked?

That would be the feeling settlers moving west had when they didn't have their gun. It offered protection and was a means of acquiring meat.

I got a Red Ryder BB gun when i was 9. Probably spent 200 hours shooting cans behind my house. Soon began taking our golden retriever up to my neighbors barn to shoot the pigeons that shit all over. Dog brought the birds back to our house in her mouth and boom, the cats had a meal.

My cousin is a true gunsmith, he has a full on love of guns and teaching about them.

One of the most impressive pieces built in my high school woodshop class was a beautiful wooden gun safe built by my best friends older brother. Kept the guns locked up and clean for when hunting season came around. We were taught at a young age that touching the safe meant you get the belt.

I'm sure there are some Thais who have similar sentiments, but i would be surprised if it is as widespread.

This is touching.

Americans love for weapons and war has bought them much disgrace, dislike and distrust worldwide.

Hmmm, certainly, as an American, I know enough history to know our shortcomings. However,...this begs the question, do you stand by after an attack of 9/11?, do you stand by in Korea? do you stand by after Europe is threatened, how about the Kkraine? China claiming, unilaterally, sovereignty over the entire South China Sea. Is these nothing you feel is worth standing in opposition to? Along with the negative, there has been an historic regard and gratitude for many past actions taken by the Americans.

[ClutchClark]

It was federal land that he and his family had run cattle on since the 1800s. He had paid for grazing rights but stopped paying the federal government when the land came into dispute between the feds and the state of Nevada.

That was the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) that attempted the Bundy takeover...and some even consider it a good reason to keep the Second Amendment. By the way, the BLM owns 81.1% of the land mass of Nevada. Can you conjure up any reason why this is the case?

Factually, you are wrong from your 5th word onward, but you are completely off-topic so try to focus.

F-O-C-U-S.

Edited May 16, 2014 by ClutchClark

[neverdie]

^ and around and around we go 555555

and there will always be those sort of examples chuckd and I. not even trying to suggest NRA members are doing the shooting but what I am saying is there is a MAJOR problem there and it needs to be tackled hard, part of that will involve removing some of the weapons for the people and whilst other weapons will remain regulation and structure will assist in keeping weapons,out of the wrong hands.

It becomes increasingly difficult I the states due to border related problems and I am the first to admit that crooks in Oz have guns, virtually not a night or day goes past in Oz where the police and customs authorities arnt seizing weapons. It's never ending.

However, there's a problem there (& here in Thailand) and it's as obvious as the nose on ya face

There are many instances where criminal acts have been stopped by legally armed citizens.

My comment concerning the massacres occuring in gun free zones had to do with this part of your earlier post, which I quoted.

"The reality to this must be, that a lot of the gun spinners and cowboys merely turn on their heals and bolt when push comes to shove, In fact perhaps their perceived feeling of safety (as is yours) is nothing more than just a misconceived feeling."

In other words, the "gun spinners" and "cowboys" were unarmed at these massacres. Only the police (and the bad guys) had weapons.

Fair enough chucky. I must point out there plenty of incidents where unarmed Aussies also catch criminals in the devious acts. Having said that, you can carry a gun all your life, shoot it down the range, once a month, every so often and when something bad happens, you may never get to use it or moresostill run for the hills when the shots start flying.

We use to do a test with fully operation police, we'd have a offender armed with a rubber knife approaching police, with it In full view, rookie cops (& some experienced ones) would nearly always allow the offender to get too close before they took the appropriate action and they were always stabbed. You need 10's of metres between you and the bad guy to act. To train with a weapon to the point where it becomes instinctive takes hundreds of hours. Most of the gun slingers in society wouldn't stand a chance. Is a false sense of security and anyone worth his weight would also realise you need to train for the blockages/jams and weapons retention, merely packing a piece, doesn't cut it.

Anyway, who am I to question the right to bare arms, live the dream and accept the massacres and violent gun crimes, won't hurt me and I stopped shedding tears for your victims years ago. I'll save my sympathy for those who chose to help themselves, not those too stupid or ignorant or whatever you wanna call it.

[neverdie]

It was federal land that he and his family had run cattle on since the 1800s. He had paid for grazing rights but stopped paying the federal government when the land came into dispute between the feds and the state of Nevada.

That was the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) that attempted the Bundy takeover...and some even consider it a good reason to keep the Second Amendment. By the way, the BLM owns 81.1% of the land mass of Nevada. Can you conjure up any reason why this is the case?

Factually, you are wrong from your 5th word onward, but you are completely off-topic so try to focus.

F-O-C-U-S.

It's the trees cc, the trees cause it