Flr Then Ilr

[rio666uk]

Just been on the phone to the lovely chaps at the IND

My wife was granted settlement - 16/09/04

Entered UK - 20/10/04

as her visa runs out on 16/09/06 and i cant apply for ILR more than 28 days prior to her 2nd anniversary of entering the UK...

I am told that for the sake of the 7 day gap i need to fork out another £335 for an extension to the settlement visa.

I was advised by someone to post my ILR application on the 15/09/06 to Durham in order to slow the whole process down.. hoping that by the time the application arrived at the right office there would only be a few days left - which may be overlooked!

Is this a safe practice - or simply not worth the risk - I dont know what to do now... advice welcome.

[the scouser]

Rio,

The effective date isn't the one upon which the Home Office official considers your wife's application, but, rather, the date it is received at the Home Office. The application must be received by the Home Office before the current visa expires. Should it arrive late and your wife's application be refused, she would not then get a right of appeal.

All I can suggest is to ask in your covering letter that the 7-day period be overlooked, and ILR granted. Certainly, it's not worth the risk of delaying the application when, no matter which way you cut it, your wife will be a week short of the qualifying period.

Scouse.

[rio666uk]

Thanks Scouse - can you confirm

taken from the IND site

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When to apply

You should make your application before your existing permission to stay in the UK runs out. In categories where you have to complete a certain period to qualify for further or indefinite leave to remain in the UK, you shouldn't apply more than 28 days before you complete the relevant period. The date of application is that on which you post it or have it accepted in person at a PEO.

Your immigration status while your application is being decided

If you make a valid application before your permission to stay ends, your existing immigration status will continue until your application is decided, even if the decision is not made until after the end of your permitted stay. If your existing visa or other permission to stay here allows you to work, you can continue to do so until your case is decided.

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so according to this - as long as the application is post a day before it expires, my wife wont technically overstay her visa... as the day before happens to be on a friday and assuming that it arrives Monday earliest, we would be 6 days adrift - of which they may overlook if i explain the situation in a covering letter - sending the application recorded but 2nd class will ensure a couple of more days are taken up too..

Edited June 14, 2006 by rio666uk

[the scouser]

What the Home Office website says is correct, but to be 100% sure of the application being classed as "in time", I'd make sure it actually gets there before the current visa expires. I've seen cases before where either the post mark is unclear or there is otherwise some doubt about the date the package was posted and it result in interminable wrangling.

If, for whatever reason, your missus' application is deemed to be "out of time", she will lose her appeal rights and be classed as an overstayer.

Notwithstanding this, even if you were to send off the application at the very last minute, your missus would still be shy of the 2 years minus 28 days rule and they do appear to be enforcing the policy rather rigidly. The wife of a friend of mine recently attended Liverpool public enquiry office to make an in-person application 31days shy of the 2 years and she was turned away and told to come back 3 days later. When asked what difference 3 days made, the clerk stated that, like it or lump it, that was now their policy and the application would not be accepted.

It does seem perverse, however, to compel you to pay £335 for, essentially, a 7-day stamp, so I would definitely press this point in an accompanying letter.

Scouse.

[rio666uk]

ok thanks for your help

ill post it so that it should arrive a day before it expires and try to explain the situation for not applying for an FLR by means of an accompanying letter.

at worst ill have to pay the 335 - ill have no choice

[vinny]

See also An Inquiry into an Application for Indefinite Leave to Remain:

4.10 It was not until November 2003, after charging had been introduced, that written guidance was provided to caseworkers on the handling of early applications.

This said that:

• if an application was more than two months before the end of the qualifying period, it should be refused and further leave to complete the qualifying period for indefinite leave should be granted;

• if an application was more than five weeks early, but less than two months, the case should be sent to the case management unit, where it could be determined, but ILR would be granted no earlier than four weeks before the end of the qualifying period;

• if an application was more than four weeks early, but no more than five, it should be held in ICU, but not granted before the four-week point.

[GU22]

What the Home Office website says is correct, but to be 100% sure of the application being classed as "in time", I'd make sure it actually gets there before the current visa expires. I've seen cases before where either the post mark is unclear or there is otherwise some doubt about the date the package was posted and it result in interminable wrangling.

You should send it by Special Delivery as the package will contain valuable documents, not least being your wife's passport. This means that you will have proof of when you posted it should you need it.

I would recommend that you don't write a covering letter. Chances are that the IND wont even notice the small discrepancy in the dates, so why draw their attention to it?

[the scouser]

I wouldn't recommend leaving your wife's chances of getting ILR to fate; i.e. crossing your fingers that the clerk doesn't bother to work out the dates.

It's better that you address the issue than pretend it doesn't exist.

Scouse.

[rio666uk]

ok so all in favour of a covering letter say "aye"...

and those against say "nay"

cmon guys i see both your points - and dont wish to lecture you on your specialist subject - but i want to get as many opinions as i can.

Scouse, GU22 - If the date of application begins from the date it was posted, and not the date it arrives, my understanding is that my wife can continue to stay and work in UK until a decision has been reached - would you agree with this???? (this is what i understand from the IND site blurb)

If so, even if the clerk decides that the days in between visa expiry and the 28 later rule for earliest application is picked up - the worst that will happen is that they will grant an FLR for those days, pocket my money, and send me a letter saying that my wife now needs to reapply for an ILR and pay another £335?

If this is correct - and i believe that it is - sending a covering letter could either get me off paying another £335 or lead me to having to pay another £335... and thats down to the clerk on the day!

however - as long as I have a special delivery postal record that shows that i posted the application before the date on which my wifes visa expires... we have done nothing wrong and shouldnt risk not being granted either an FLR or ILR visa

am i right?

[vinny]

If you had a good excuse, then I would write a covering letter, else I would not because the difference is so small anyway. By the time they reply, your wife would have satisfied the probationary period.

Scouse, GU22 - If the date of application begins from the date it was posted, and not the date it arrives, my understanding is that my wife can continue to stay and work in UK until a decision has been reached - would you agree with this???? (this is what i understand from the IND site blurb)

Provided her application was made in time, her pre-existing leave to remain is automatically extended under Section 3C of the 1971 Immigration Act, as amended. She can continue to stay and work in UK until a decision has been reached.

[GU22]

Basically,

As long as the application is posted before her visa expires, then her leave to remain will be automatically extended until the ILR decision is made. So she can carry on working etc.

Writing a covering letter in your circumstances will, IMHO, only draw attention to the date discrepancy. IMHO, this discrepancy will probably go unnoticed, especially as by the time her application is checked she will probably be within the 28 days.

If the date discrepancy is noticed and they decide against ignoring it and so don't issue ILR, then they will issue an extension to her leave to remain and she will then have to apply for ILR again when she is time qualified.

I think we all agree on the above, except the writing of a covering letter and the possible consequences of doing so. I'm afraid, Rio, that whether to follow my advice on this point or Scouse's is a decision only you can make.

[rio666uk]

Thanks to everyone for their comments... its been very helpfull.

i asked the same question at thailand-uk and got the same advice really...

ill decide on the day whether or not to include a covering letter, essentially i wont have any serious problems nor jepordise her visa decission - as long as the application is made in time....

whether i get stung for the extra money or they let it ride is, a pain in the ass yes, but a disaster no!

[rio666uk]

Just to say - We received everything back from the IND this morning - ILR status granted.

Thanks to all that commented.

666

[vinny]

Congratulations! Did you write a covering letter in the end?

[rio666uk]

Congratulations! Did you write a covering letter in the end?

I "did" write a covering letter, just the standard stuff

but "did not" mention any of the date issues surrounding my original question

they obvioulsy either didnt notice or chose to ignore it - either way my wife and I are both overjoyed.

thanks again

[the scouser]

Well done, Rio.

Scouse.

[Templer]

Well done matey

I know how you feel sorting all visa applications,

I'm just glad it's nearly all over for me,

Wife will have UK passport soon.

Templer

[daleyboy]

Good work mate, but having met both of you, i reckon it should be you that needs a visa not the wife

[rio666uk]

Well done matey

I know how you feel sorting all visa applications,

I'm just glad it's nearly all over for me,

Wife will have UK passport soon.

Templer

This seems like a fantastic ball ache to me... however Im talking out of ignorance as I havent looked into it at all.

Can you give me the brief... and the reasons why you did it... etc

Thanks

[mrbojangles]

Well done rio

I'd also like to know the brief, of the pro's and cons of having the passport. I can definately see some of the advantages i.e making travelling easier but what are the downsides etc.

[GU22]

Pros:-

No need to transfer ILR stamp every time Thai passport is renewed (at £160 a time).

No need for visas when travelling to Europe, or other countries where Brits don't need a visa but Thais do.

Full rights as a British citizen, voting etc.

No loss of rights as a Thai citizen as both countries allow dual nationality.

Cons:-

Can't think of any.

[mrbojangles]

Exactly my thoughts GU22. Although i didn't know about the £160 for renewal of visa in new passport

Question:- To get the passport, is this where it is necessary to do the Citizenship test? If so, that is the only downside i can think off

[Mossfinn]

Great Stuff Rio, Good Luck to you and your family.

Moss

[Mossfinn]

Question:- To get the passport, is this where it is necessary to do the Citizenship test? If so, that is the only downside i can think off

Hi Mr Boj,

This is where you have to do the Citizen test, but this is relatively a walk in the park as long as you buy the book and take some time reading it.

One plus point is, because you have already done the hard yards in getting to this point the final hurdle is fairly pain free.

There is no inordinate amount of paper work to help endorse the application as you have already proved the neccesary previously.

We are presently at the point of waiting for the yes or no on the application and then do the alliegence thing, if it passes muster.

Good Luck

Moss

[mrbojangles]

We are presently at the point of waiting for the yes or no on the application and then do the alliegence thing, if it passes muster.

Cheers Moss and good luck on the application.

How many hours study did she do and was it the computer based one?

[Mossfinn]

Thanks Mr Boj on the best wishes.

The test was computer based.

Do a search for the nearest test centre, I am sure their is one near you.

It is based on a series of multiple choice questions from three of the chapters in the book relevant to your application, I think it is either 1-3 or 2 to 4, I will confirm tomorrow but it is stated in the book.

She studied about 15 minutes a day for two weeks, but it is hard to say what you actually need, because the book is all about all manner of differing threads, statistics and useless information that you will never use.

But don't be dismayed, because it is multiple choice, if you have read the info it is easier than you think.

My advice is go for it, do the revision, what can you lose?

Good luck

Moss

[mrbojangles]

My advice is go for it, do the revision, what can you lose?

Absolutely, cheers Moss