Thai Chinese Vs Chinese in other SEA countries

[Smurkster]

Why is it that Thai Chinese are much more integrated into society than chinese in other countries in the region. Although Thai chinese for the most part recognize their heritage, they do not speak the language or really consider themselves chinese, yet in a country like Malaysia or Singapore, (from people i have met) are more in touch with their chinese roots i,e speaking the language and actually calling themselves "chinese" does it have to do with how many generations removed they are and Thai Chinese being further removed from China than say Malaysia...Id be interested in hearing what other people have to say on this topic

[bluesmith]

Just as money hungry as there Asian Counterparts.

[KarenBravo]

In Thailand, one Thai/Chinese to another Thai/Chinese will refer to themselves as Chinese.

With a Thai, they will refer to themselves as Thai/Chinese.

To a foreigner as Thai.

If they are so integrated, why do they generally marry other Chinese?

[ultimate weapon]

Chinese should retain their heritage and it's the same with other races overseas. How come farang in foreign asian countries still call themselves farang and speak english or whatever language they have?

You ever notice the difference? When it involves chinese people somehow they need to be stripped of their identity and heritage but if it involves say indians asking such a question is like racism.

[ultimate weapon]

Fyi OP should know that there is a central thai integration thing going on. That is every single citizen of thailand should strive to be like the central thais. That is why issan thais for example were forced to learn thai and same for the northern thais etc. Same for the southern thais and the malays and hence the pattani situation.

Everyone is being forced to become more thai. Now i find it truly truly funny that when the southern malays/thais are involved everyone is so sympathetic oh you know those evil thais doing it to them yet when they do it to the chinese forcing them to take up thai names and forget their chinese culture everyone is cool about it and say yeah that should be the way it's ok.

Mind telling me why.

[marko kok prong]

I would think it may be because Thai people originally came from southern China,so there is a link there whilst,in Malaysia ,Indonesia the people are Malays,and the Chinese came later,i could be wrong,but that's only my tupence worth.

[abhaya]

Thai and the various Chinese dialects are part of the same language family so it makes it easier for them to understand each other and Buddhism is more prevalent in China. The real friction with Chinese in SEA is in Muslim countries (Indonesia and Malaysia) and to a lesser extent the Catholic Philippines. The animosity in Vietnam is very deep rooted and historical although in many ways they are culturally more similar than anywhere else. Generally the Thai Chinese I meet will always identify their nationality with being Thai first and ethnic Chinese second, also maybe Chinese appreciate “Thainess” and find life more enjoyable being integrated into this way of life.

[RichBKK]

I think it has a lot to do with the governments in the 20th century here practicing a form of forced assimilation. Elsewhere you either have ethnic cleansing or seperatist multiculturalism. But to be fair to Thailand they overall seemed to have done it about right. They were free to live and set up businesses etc with little persecution but they needed to speak thai and 'do as the Romans do', as well as fully adopt their new thainess by changing their names etc. and most were willing to do that and saw many opportunities to prosper that simply didnt exist in the famine ridden, war torn and later on grimly communist regions of southern china

Recognising also the fact that the Chinese emigrants had a far superior work ethic, without them Thailand would be well and truly still very much a 3rd world backwater. I think they brought way more than what they took when they came here though unfortunately did spawn a powerful class of business and political clanship which has been a less positive influence on the country

[sunsamourai]

Not sure about how it worked in other SEA countries like Cambodia, Indonesia, etc... but like another poster said, in Thailand there has been a real effort to integrate Chinese migrants into the society. The different kings regularly gave Thai names, titles etc...

There should be other reasons such as ethnic provenance of the Chinese migrants : China is an ethnic mosaic, and the Chinese nationality refers to a whole lot of completely different cultures...

[arthurwait]

In Thailand, one Thai/Chinese to another Thai/Chinese will refer to themselves as Chinese.

With a Thai, they will refer to themselves as Thai/Chinese.

To a foreigner as Thai.

If they are so integrated, why do they generally marry other Chinese?

My MIL parents came from China, she is one of 5 children- 4 girls , 1 boy, only the brother married another Chinese person all sisters married Thai men. They will marry the best man they can whether Thai or Chinese. It just so happens many Thai Chinese men often put work and education before drinking and womanising and have more western values than many Thai men. Same as you won't see Thai-Chinese girls with farangs that come here for the drinking, partying and women, but with decent guys their own age.

The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses.

Speak to an Esarn bar girl about Thai-Chinese and you will see intergration isn't there through their choice and hatred for them is still there as they seem to think money grew on trees for them. Ok it did for many of their spoilt kids.

Edited May 19, 2014 by arthurwait

[belg]

my wife hates chinese ...

she is half chinese (dad) , half thai (mom)

55555555555555555

when i refer to her 50% being chinese, she denies her heritage

[sandyf]

My wifes grandfather was Chinese and he married a Thai. Her father, half Chinese, married a Thai so my wife, her sister and brother are a bit watered down. The language has gone but the family still follow all the Chinese traditions as well as the Thai traditions. There is a big Chinese community in the Chonburi area and the size of the Chinese cemeteries is quite unbelievable. During the main festivals like New Year or Quing Ming the roads become gridlocked with additional traffic as thousands travel from China to visit the graves.

[ultimate weapon]

I would think it may be because Thai people originally came from southern China,so there is a link there whilst,in Malaysia ,Indonesia the people are Malays,and the Chinese came later,i could be wrong,but that's only my tupence worth.

Thais might have originated from china and in fact malays might have BUT they are not chinese. Their ancestors are a minority in china that have a similar but NOT the same but a rather similar culture BUT they are not chinese ethnicity. It's just like saying hey japanese came from china yet it's mostly the physical appearance and the words they use.

In terms of culture nothing much in common with chinese. Maybe the pronounciation of some words cos modern chinese has a common ancestor with thai but thai writing and everything was influenced by khmer not chinese hence their names and everything is different. Maybe the worship of gods is common but then the worship of hindu/chinese/thai/buddhists gods are all blended together.

[h90]

In Indonesia or Malaysia a Chinese would have to convert to Islam if he/she want to marry a local. In Thailand they can keep being Buddhist.

[thailiketoo]

My MIL parents came from China, she is one of 5 children- 4 girls , 1 boy, only the brother married another Chinese person all sisters married Thai men. They will marry the best man they can whether Thai or Chinese. It just so happens many Thai Chinese men often put work and education before drinking and womanising and have more western values than many Thai men. Same as you won't see Thai-Chinese girls with farangs that come here for the drinking, partying and women, but with decent guys their own age.

The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses.

Speak to an Esarn bar girl about Thai-Chinese and you will see intergration isn't there through their choice and hatred for them is still there as they seem to think money grew on trees for them. Ok it did for many of their spoilt kids.

So the Chinese brought money with them to build Thailand or ...... are these the KMT troops that came to the North of Thailand at the end of WWII?

[ultimate weapon]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In Thailand, one Thai/Chinese to another Thai/Chinese will refer to themselves as Chinese.

With a Thai, they will refer to themselves as Thai/Chinese.

To a foreigner as Thai.

If they are so integrated, why do they generally marry other Chinese?

My MIL parents came from China, she is one of 5 children- 4 girls , 1 boy, only the brother married another Chinese person all sisters married Thai men. They will marry the best man they can whether Thai or Chinese. It just so happens many Thai Chinese men often put work and education before drinking and womanising and have more western values than many Thai men. Same as you won't see Thai-Chinese girls with farangs that come here for the drinking, partying and women, but with decent guys their own age.

The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses.

Speak to an Esarn bar girl about Thai-Chinese and you will see intergration isn't there through their choice and hatred for them is still there as they seem to think money grew on trees for them. Ok it did for many of their spoilt kids.

I think it's fair to say if you put in the work you deserve the fruits of your success do you agree or not? Yet some ppl are so green eyed with jealousy i suppose but refuse to admit it and just think the chinese stole the wealth. How do you steal the wealth? Like one day some chinese foreigners came to thailand walked up to some thai villages and they just handed all the money and everything over to them and became the lowly workers and allowed the chinese to lord it over them. Ridiculous.

my wife hates chinese ...

she is half chinese (dad) , half thai (mom)

55555555555555555

when i refer to her 50% being chinese, she denies her heritage

Why does she hate being chinese? or rather half chinese?

I noticed there is quite an "uncle tom" mentality among some chinese. Anyway that is fine. Many pure chinese out there. Don't need to bother about the half breeds.

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[h90]

In Thailand, one Thai/Chinese to another Thai/Chinese will refer to themselves as Chinese.

With a Thai, they will refer to themselves as Thai/Chinese.

To a foreigner as Thai.

If they are so integrated, why do they generally marry other Chinese?

Well: they will also tell which kind of Chinese.

my wives mother was Chinese, her father Thai, so she is 50%.

The usually marry other Chinese, as they see Thais as lazy and spending too much money.

[ultimate weapon]

In Thailand, one Thai/Chinese to another Thai/Chinese will refer to themselves as Chinese.

With a Thai, they will refer to themselves as Thai/Chinese.

To a foreigner as Thai.

If they are so integrated, why do they generally marry other Chinese?

Well: they will also tell which kind of Chinese.

my wives mother was Chinese, her father Thai, so she is 50%.

The usually marry other Chinese, as they see Thais as lazy and spending too much money.

Many different kinds of chinese. Hakka which is known as the guest ppl and is the heritage of thaksin and his sister. Some ppl claim hakka are cunning and so on. Known as the guest people in china. Very interesting houses they built it's in a circular shape and very good for defense.

[marko kok prong]

I would think it may be because Thai people originally came from southern China,so there is a link there whilst,in Malaysia ,Indonesia the people are Malays,and the Chinese came later,i could be wrong,but that's only my tupence worth.

Thais might have originated from china and in fact malays might have BUT they are not chinese. Their ancestors are a minority in china that have a similar but NOT the same but a rather similar culture BUT they are not chinese ethnicity. It's just like saying hey japanese came from china yet it's mostly the physical appearance and the words they use.

In terms of culture nothing much in common with chinese. Maybe the pronounciation of some words cos modern chinese has a common ancestor with thai but thai writing and everything was influenced by khmer not chinese hence their names and everything is different. Maybe the worship of gods is common but then the worship of hindu/chinese/thai/buddhists gods are all blended together.

Thanks for your reply mate,yes i am not sure about all this i did some research a while ago on it ,some of it i seem to remember stated the thai's started moving from southern China in the first millennium ad,so that would be 1100 i guess,possibly the malays came before this,anyway interesting i will look into it some more.

[HerbalEd]

Given the past years of major discrimination and violence against Chinese in Malaysia ... even by Malaysian government ... many Chinese have played down their Chinese-ness.

[thailiketoo]

The Chinese in Thailand also suffered discrimination between the 1930s to 1950s under the military dictatorship of Prime Minister Plaek Phibunsongkhram, (in spite of being part-Chinese himself).^[19] State corporations took over commodities such as rice, tobacco and petroleum, and Chinese businesses found themselves subject to a range of new taxes and controls. Nevertheless, the Chinese were still encouraged to become Thai citizens, and by 1970 it was estimated that more than 90 percent of the Chinese born in Thailand had done so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Chinese

[ultimate weapon]

I would think it may be because Thai people originally came from southern China,so there is a link there whilst,in Malaysia ,Indonesia the people are Malays,and the Chinese came later,i could be wrong,but that's only my tupence worth.

Thais might have originated from china and in fact malays might have BUT they are not chinese. Their ancestors are a minority in china that have a similar but NOT the same but a rather similar culture BUT they are not chinese ethnicity. It's just like saying hey japanese came from china yet it's mostly the physical appearance and the words they use.

In terms of culture nothing much in common with chinese. Maybe the pronounciation of some words cos modern chinese has a common ancestor with thai but thai writing and everything was influenced by khmer not chinese hence their names and everything is different. Maybe the worship of gods is common but then the worship of hindu/chinese/thai/buddhists gods are all blended together.

Thanks for your reply mate,yes i am not sure about all this i did some research a while ago on it ,some of it i seem to remember stated the thai's started moving from southern China in the first millennium ad,so that would be 1100 i guess,possibly the malays came before this,anyway interesting i will look into it some more.

Yup around like 800 or so years ago. The thai or rather siamese kingdom was started. It was due to the mongolian invasion and the ppl from the north pushed down southwards and then the natives in the south ran further southwards. The 50 minorities in china well other than looking chinese they aren't chinese at all. The modern thais of today are quite different from their ancestors that stayed in china. This is because they interbred with the various SEA natives before them like the Mon, khmer etc and you know the entire history of siam etc with the influences all added in and etc but in a way you can consider the siamese people the invaders of the natives that were already in the SEA region that thailand occupies today like the khmer for example. Yet what is interesting is that ppl, western and even asians alike recognise the thais as legit owners of the land. Anyway 800-1000 is a long time but it's very short compared to other civilzations. China's history is so much longer. Look at places like iraq for example.

[Benmart]

Just as money hungry as there Asian Counterparts.

I've not met every Chinese person in Thailand or any other part of SE Asia so I can't say the same.

Feom my experience, i can say that greed and bigotry doesn't seem to have ethnic, racial or national boundaries.

[Smurkster]

The Khmer and Mon were most certainly the first "native" people of Indochina and the Lao and Thai and to some extent Burmese culture were heavily influenced by everything Khmer.

This is not so much the case with the Vietnamese, who are more sinosized in their culture...although modern day Southern Vietnam was still controlled by the Khmer last late as the 1700's before the Vietnamese moved

in from the North to gain their territory...

I think in many respects Vietnam isn't really "Indochina" in the sense that Indian culture i.e language and religion never really played apart in the development of Vietnamese culture...so in many respects the

annamite mountain chain is really a very big dividing cultural line between "sinitic" and "Indochinese"

[elzach]

I see some similarities of the Thai Chinese with the Filipino Chinese.

In the PI the rest of the people more or less despise them but are envious of them, as the Filipino Chinese own pretty much everything.

Having said that, they don't speak Chinese (any dialect) and they don't necessarily identify with being Chinese.

You made a good contrast with the Chinese in Malaysia. They are actually more or less segregated (by choice now),

they speak fluent Chinese (Hokkien, Hakka, Cantonese, and the young kids speak Mandarin as well), they marry Chinese, they identify with being Chinese.

In certain areas of KL and Selangor it's not uncommon to see residential complexes where only Chinese and a few whites (are allowed to) live.

Edited May 19, 2014 by elzach

[arthurwait]

My MIL parents came from China, she is one of 5 children- 4 girls , 1 boy, only the brother married another Chinese person all sisters married Thai men. They will marry the best man they can whether Thai or Chinese. It just so happens many Thai Chinese men often put work and education before drinking and womanising and have more western values than many Thai men. Same as you won't see Thai-Chinese girls with farangs that come here for the drinking, partying and women, but with decent guys their own age.

The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses.

Speak to an Esarn bar girl about Thai-Chinese and you will see intergration isn't there through their choice and hatred for them is still there as they seem to think money grew on trees for them. Ok it did for many of their spoilt kids.

So the Chinese brought money with them to build Thailand or ...... are these the KMT troops that came to the North of Thailand at the end of WWII?

No idea about the troops , but some came with money , some, probably most didn't.

If you are referring to the MIL parents, I believe they came not long before she was born and she is 79 I think.

Edited May 19, 2014 by arthurwait

[thailiketoo]

My MIL parents came from China, she is one of 5 children- 4 girls , 1 boy, only the brother married another Chinese person all sisters married Thai men. They will marry the best man they can whether Thai or Chinese. It just so happens many Thai Chinese men often put work and education before drinking and womanising and have more western values than many Thai men. Same as you won't see Thai-Chinese girls with farangs that come here for the drinking, partying and women, but with decent guys their own age.

The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses.

Speak to an Esarn bar girl about Thai-Chinese and you will see intergration isn't there through their choice and hatred for them is still there as they seem to think money grew on trees for them. Ok it did for many of their spoilt kids.

So the Chinese brought money with them to build Thailand or ...... are these the KMT troops that came to the North of Thailand at the end of WWII?

No idea about the troops , but some came with money , some, probably most didn't.

If you are referring to the MIL parents, I believe they came not long before she was born and she is 79 I think.

You wrote, "The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses." Do you have any links to back up that claim? As far as I know the Chinese were traders and millers and owners of sawmills in Bangkok and poor opium trading poor soldiers that got left by the National Chinese at the end of WWII.

[Grindting]

I've noticed in Thailand that the Thai-Chinese are the elite, because of the way they look and because they are more often than not from well-to-do established families, even on a small scale (like a resto or a gold shop). They seem respected by the pure Thais and revered. Thais will tell you (like they've told me) that the Chinese (thai Chinese) have a better work ethic and business sense (passed through the generations) compared to the pure Thais, which is why they have most of the money.

My experience in Indonesia is yes the indo-Chinese also make up a large part of the elite (for the same reasons.. Chinese hard working, Indonesians lazy), but they are hated by the pure Indonesians, from all backgrounds. Pure Chinese are hated the most. I think it's a combination of jealousy as they have all the wealth, and also not sharing the same religion as the majority.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Grindting

[Bkungbank]

Thai Chinese have been localize with language but in Malaysia Chinese still speak their own Chinese language at home compare Thai Chinese speak Thai at home

IN Chinese New Year all still celebrate the same in Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand. Thai- Chinese are very lucky can become PM, like ex-PM Thanksin, Ying Luck, Chuan,

Chawalit etc . In Malaysia Chinese still consider second class citizen in University Chinese have less change to study and other benefit for Malays only.

They have same business success when ever or which country they go.

[Docno]

They're not THAT integrated. I have a good Chinese Thai friend who is currently unable to marry his ethnic Thai girlfriend of 7 years because she's not Chinese. I went to a family gathering in Bangkok, and I felt like I was in China ... Chinese characters everywhere, people speaking Teochew, etc. They were actually quite nice it the sole farang there (me) but basically ignored the girlfriend, who has a degree in law, a good family, etc.

Chinese stick to themselves a little in Singapore because they are the dominant group by a fair margin. They run the show. They are a large minority in Malaysia, but are actively and legally discriminated against there. They have their own political and do very well economically, but they have learned to keep their heads down. This is even more the case in Indonesia where (as in Thailand) the Chinese were forced to take local names and where suffered terribly in a pogrom in 1998.

The other thing you need to remember is that Bangkok used to be a Chinese city ... The majority of the population there was Chinese at one time. The Chinese also owned all the the steam powered rice mills in the country in the 19th century. They dominated the economy. Some would argue they still do. Just look at who runs Central Group and CP, for instance. And the classic 'Bangkok look' that you see in magazines, TV shows, and beauty contests is really a Chinese Thai 'look'. I've lived surrounded by Chinese for 15 years, and most of the faces I see in the Thai media are indistinguishable from southern Chinese faces like we see in Singapore or Malaysia.

So in some ways they've integrated, in some ways they haven't, and in some ways they've made indigenous Thais integrate with them....

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