Isaan, Isan, Esarn, Isarn, Issan. Which is it?

[Guitar God]

What is the commonly accepted English spelling of this NE province of Thailand?

Not even Thais seem to agree on how to spell it.

Hotel Siri Isan and Wikipedia chose one "s" and one "a" but here the preferred spelling seems to be with two "a" 's .

I've also seem it with a double "s", an "r" thrown in and it starting with an "I" and an "E".

[gerry123]

any of them take your pick

[Sandman77]

On some water bottles here I read burirum instead of buriram, so how it comes?

[johnjoensen]

on thai it is อีสาน and if yuo translate it straight it is iisaan an doubble ii is pronounced e in english so the sound in english would be Esaan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[KhunBENQ]

Nice topic which will not lead to a conclusion

The never ending Thai transcription dispute.

Its a big mess.

For me (German mother tongue) it is simple, I stick to RTGS: Isan

(but even in German "Isaan" is very popular).

RTGS is the rule set, that is (should be) used for all official transcriptions (like documents, map names, street signs etc.)

Buriram for e.g.

I know its not helpful for the English speakers, so Esan might do it for you?

Listem to it, and make up your mind:

http://www.thai-language.com/mp3/E139758.mp3

http://www.thainet.de/dict/voice/20/6979.mp3

http://translate.google.com/translate_tts?tl=th&q=%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99

Edited May 20, 2014 by KhunBENQ

[isanbirder]

Up to you really.

Transliteration is always an inexact science, as letters in one language do not necessarily correspond precisely with the letters in another..

[slipperylobster]

No correct spelling. The thais up here say Isaan, Issan, Isarn, Issarn. Looked it up...all are correct. The problem is not that they are wrong, but that you are trying to fit a Thai round word into a Farang square hole. Just deal with it. Streets also are spelled more than one way when translated to english as well

[slipperylobster]

if it is any comfort to you, look how the British spell rumour (which is a french bastardization of rumor)...probably due to the defeat of England by William the Conqueror (of Normandy). Many English words were spelled as the French would pronounce them.

Thank Goodness the USA spells rumor correctly (as it should sound)

lol

Edited May 20, 2014 by slipperylobster

[Sandman77]

Check bin instead of check bill

Also with spelling s Thais have problem

To spell in a name , but songkran everybody can say

For Chinese it's hard spell r instead of l

But when there will is strongh enough

Can spell everything!

[SantiSuk]

on thai it is อีสาน and if yuo translate it straight it is iisaan an doubble ii is pronounced e in english so the sound in english would be Esaan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The letter 'e' in English would generally be a short 'eh' sound not the 'ee' I think you are driving towards. I've never heard anyone call it Eh-saan.

Pedantic I know, but this thread is about Thai and English languages (so I'd better add that the letter e is pronounced many different ways - try the e's in 'everyone' for instance - 3 different sounds for 'e', including a silent one, in one word. Stupid language English - should have reinvented it with simpler phoenetics years ago I am a Brit myself)

[Michael Hare]

If one writes a paper in Thai then spell Isarn in Thai. When writing in English, then write either Northeast Thailand or north-east Thailand or even north-eastern Thailand depending on what the journal will accept. A few years ago there was a debate here in Ubon on how Ubon Ratchathani should be spelt in English with many local Thais preferring Ubon Ratjathanee! The former spelling won

[sirchai]

The "usual" word for it is Isaan. Many Thai words, names of people,etc... do have a German pronunciation. -

Edited May 20, 2014 by sirchai

[thrilled]

1st time in Thailand 1972. I've seen it Isaan to many times to count

[thamteak]

What is the commonly accepted English spelling of this NE province of Thailand?

Isaan isn't a province.

[Guitar God]

You're right, it's a region of 20 provinces, not a province.

I thought that many commonly used foreign words usually had a standardized English spelling. I remember when Saddam Hussein was in the news, the media mentioned that they had decided on one spelling.

Same with countries where the name is pronounced (roughly) the same in English as the local pronunciation, like Kyrgyzstan and other countries using Cyrillic alphabet, (but not Finland which Fins call Suomi so we made up a new word).

To my ears, If I were unfamiliar with the word and was in a spelling bee, I'd spell it "Easaan". But "Isaan" seems to have the edge, even though I'd say it rhymes with Nissan.

No wonder there's so many different spellings.

What is the commonly accepted English spelling of this NE province of Thailand?

Isaan isn't a province.

[KhunBENQ]

You're right, it's a region of 20 provinces, not a province.

I thought that many commonly used foreign words usually had a standardized English spelling.

Wish it were. As I wrote, there is a standardized spelling RTGS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_General_System_of_Transcription

But due to its "contradiction" to the English vowel sounds, it is mostly ignored by the English speaking word.

But at least for official use (like street signs on major roads etc,) it is nowadays widely used by Thai authorities.

One problem with the missing standadization is the difficulty in finding names and facts in the Internet.

Even Google is not always smart enough to give the right guess.

What a mess!!!

For "Udorn" it is smart and shows you the "correct" spelling "Udon" (one of thousand of examples).

Most funny example I know: ซอย บัวขาว, an alley in Pattaya ("white lotus alley").

RTGS: Soi Buakhao

I guess I have seen a dozen different spellings so far

Soi Baukau

Soi Bawkaw

Soi Buakhaw (popular)

Soi Buakao

t.b.c.

Edited May 20, 2014 by KhunBENQ

[Skint]

What about the diddys that call it isarn, esarn

Edited May 20, 2014 by Skint

[slipperylobster]

What most folks forget is the influence on the language from Laos and Cambodia. The dialect in Isaan is different than the practical Thai you see in your studies...anyways.

[slipperylobster]

You're right, it's a region of 20 provinces, not a province.

I thought that many commonly used foreign words usually had a standardized English spelling.

Wish it were. As I wrote, there is a standardized spelling RTGS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_General_System_of_Transcription

But due to its "contradiction" to the English vowel sounds, it is mostly ignored by the English speaking word.

But at least for official use (like street signs on major roads etc,) it is nowadays widely used by Thai authorities.

One problem with the missing standadization is the difficulty in finding names and facts in the Internet.

Even Google is not always smart enough to give the right guess.

What a mess!!!

For "Udorn" it is smart and shows you the "correct" spelling "Udon" (one of thousand of examples).

Most funny example I know: ซอย บัวขาว, an alley in Pattaya ("white lotus alley").

RTGS: Soi Buakhao

I guess I have seen a dozen different spellings so far

Soi Baukau

Soi Bawkaw

Soi Buakhaw (popular)

Soi Buakao

t.b.c.

sounds like .......Boo A Cow............to my ears. I never forget it as most of the ladies there look like Cows/Buffalo and I like to Boo at them.

[Skint]

You're right, it's a region of 20 provinces, not a province.

I thought that many commonly used foreign words usually had a standardized English spelling.

Wish it were. As I wrote, there is a standardized spelling RTGS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_General_System_of_Transcription

But due to its "contradiction" to the English vowel sounds, it is mostly ignored by the English speaking word.

But at least for official use (like street signs on major roads etc,) it is nowadays widely used by Thai authorities.

One problem with the missing standadization is the difficulty in finding names and facts in the Internet.

Even Google is not always smart enough to give the right guess.

What a mess!!!

For "Udorn" it is smart and shows you the "correct" spelling "Udon" (one of thousand of examples).

Most funny example I know: ซอย บัวขาว, an alley in Pattaya ("white lotus alley").

RTGS: Soi Buakhao

I guess I have seen a dozen different spellings so far

Soi Baukau

Soi Bawkaw

Soi Buakhaw (popular)

Soi Buakao

t.b.c.

sounds like .......Boo A Cow............to my ears. I never forget it as most of the ladies there look like Cows/Buffalo and I like to Boo at them.

I think more like the "bu" in bum rather we than boo

[willyumiii]

on thai it is อีสาน and if yuo translate it straight it is iisaan an doubble ii is pronounced e in english so the sound in english would be Esaan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

and how do you translate the word "yuo"?

Is that an Essan or Thai wordi?

and how is it spelled in English??

Edited May 21, 2014 by willyumiii

[willyumiii]

on thai it is อีสาน and if yuo translate it straight it is iisaan an doubble ii is pronounced e in english so the sound in english would be Esaan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The letter 'e' in English would generally be a short 'eh' sound not the 'ee' I think you are driving towards. I've never heard anyone call it Eh-saan.

Pedantic I know, but this thread is about Thai and English languages (so I'd better add that the letter e is pronounced many different ways - try the e's in 'everyone' for instance - 3 different sounds for 'e', including a silent one, in one word. Stupid language English - should have reinvented it with simpler phoenetics years ago I am a Brit myself)

I teach English and could not agree with you more!

"Stupid" gives it too much credit. The English language could not have been made more difficult to learn and understand than it is now.

I often wonder who, and why created the mess it is today.

Pritty phunny huh?

Edited May 21, 2014 by willyumiii

[thamteak]

You're right, it's a region of 20 provinces, not a province.

I thought that many commonly used foreign words usually had a standardized English spelling. I remember when Saddam Hussein was in the news, the media mentioned that they had decided on one spelling.

Same with countries where the name is pronounced (roughly) the same in English as the local pronunciation, like Kyrgyzstan and other countries using Cyrillic alphabet, (but not Finland which Fins call Suomi so we made up a new word).

To my ears, If I were unfamiliar with the word and was in a spelling bee, I'd spell it "Easaan". But "Isaan" seems to have the edge, even though I'd say it rhymes with Nissan.

No wonder there's so many different spellings.

What is the commonly accepted English spelling of this NE province of Thailand?

Isaan isn't a province.

no it doesn't rhyme with Nissan.

Written phonetically in English is would be spelt: Ee-sahn or Ee-saan.

First syllable:Long E, Second syllable: S, long A, followed by n.

Personally I spell it Isaan or Isahn as it's more recognizable to people with little knowledge.

[Thaddeus]

"Stupid" gives it too much credit. The English language could not have been made more difficult to learn and understand than it is now.

I often wonder who, and why created the mess it is today.

Pritty phunny huh?

Stephen Fry gave a very good lecture on how the English language evolved with particular regard to spelling (I've checked the BBC website and it is no longer available unfortunately)

But it is basically because it has been mucked about with by so many forces since its inception, and not just cobbled together from French and German, the Monks had a particularly strong influence, because they were the main creators of books, much of what they did stuck, because, please excuse this phrase, what they said was taken as Gospel.

The English family name of ffolkes used to only have one f, but in old English type, a capital F looks like two small f's stuck together.

How do you say "Ye Olde Coffee Shoppe"?

You say it "The old coffee shop" .... a capital Y at the start of a word was a special character called a 'thorn' it looked nice and was used as a replacement for 'th'

By the way, roses don't have thorns, they have prickles, next time you see Bon Jovi, tell him he is wrong.

The English word for the Penny is derived from Pfennig, we just couldn't be bothered making the Pf sound.

My surname ends in 'ough' .... I could pronounce it eight different ways if I wanted to, but stick with 'uff'

You may think that Mr Fry could be a spelling Nazi, but he is far from it, he is very much 'write it down as you hear it'

There is a town down the road from me that many of the ex-pats call Kap Chong, as that is what most of the road signs look like, if I were to write it down, I would spell it Kap Churng, as that is much closer to what I hear.

I make a note of useful Thai phrases by writing them in English script, the way that I hear them.

Isaan is the most common spelling, and that is what I use because it has fallen in to common practice, when I write it for myself I use Esarn.

And it's Nong Key not Nonky.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Thaddeus

[Taunusianer]

it's very simple: it's อีสาน transcription is always a mess. ;-)

[ningnong]

no it doesn't rhyme with Nissan.

Written phonetically in English is would be spelt: Ee-sahn or Ee-saan.

First syllable:Long E, Second syllable: S, long A, followed by n.

Personally I spell it Isaan or Isahn as it's more recognizable to people with little knowledge.

This is the closet description in my opinion. Definitely no 'r' sound to be found either based on the Thai spelling.

Cheers

[slipperylobster]

Tomato ... (I say that two ways) . in my opinion....Who cares? Thais spell it their way in their language.

As i do theirs in Thai.

Edited May 31, 2014 by slipperylobster