Thai truck driver who knocked down and killed British couple fined just £18

[ClutchClark]

Unless you have access to all the reconstructive evidence, no one can pass judgment on the culpability of the truck driver. The law naturally gives a presumption that the motorized vehicle has a better opportunity to avoid the collision. Condolescences to the families and friends of the bicyclists. The roads in Thailand are dangerous, but, for bicyclists, the roads in many other countries are as well. With the popularity of bicycling in Thailand, there needs to be more investment in bicycle protected pathways to improve safety and enjoyment, especially for touring.

Bicycle Protected Pathways.

Yes, ofcourse. That is brilliant. They could model them after pedestrian protected pathways...aka sidewalks. You know those pathways for foot traffic and 50 kph motorbike traffic. ;-)

[JohnnyJazz]

I had this story on my mind but didn't know where to post it, here seems the good place.

It seems foreigners enjoy taking their (big) bike and going for a ride during one ofthe numerous sunny week ends we have here in Thailand. The problem is all drivers are not equal. While I can see the fastest smoothly passing me I can see also people in the back taking unreasonable risk trying to catch up. Please be reasonable, be careful, don't make what should be an enjoyable sunday ending in tragedy.

Edited May 28, 2014 by JohnnyJazz

[gemini81]

Revenge is the only justice you'll get here for lost loved ones.

Edited May 28, 2014 by gemini81

[ABCer]

I see a tragic accident.

I see a lot of people crying "blood"!...

If, repeat IF! there are no contributing factors, - the sentence is adequate, - with sincere sympathy and condolences to victims families.

However, my doubts start with the word "negligence" in the OP.

I am not familiar with Thai Laws. But killing somebody due to negligence is a very serious offence calling to a serious punishment.

As I said, I do not know Thai Laws. Maybe being negligent is one of the features of this mysterious "Thainess" we all fail to understand?

I do not know...

And in absence of known facts I cannot judge neither the Judgment nor the driver.

Edited May 28, 2014 by ABCer

[ABCer]

sorry, double post.

I wish something can be done about the tragically slow Internet here.

Maybe Army should close it altogether?

Edited May 28, 2014 by ABCer

[sumtingwong]

Bike riding around the world sounds like a death wish?

[yougivemebaby]

well, if the judge sees it as an accident and judges it as manslaughter (unintentional killing), then the penalty is not much different from penalties in European criminal codes... Switzerland criminal code says that manslaughter can get up to three years of prison or monetary fine... so the Thai verdict seems not to far off, if it really was an accident without high-speed or alcohol involved...

Did the driver pay and compensation to their kin?

[Tomtomtom69]

For those defending the driver here is a section of the original report "Investigating police think the accident was caused by a combination of the Thai driver speeding and his falling asleep at the wheel. The 25 year old driver from Udon Thai province claimed the accident occurred when he dropped his hat and bent down to pick it up. Police have charged him with careless driving and he's out on 300k Baht bail." So please stop with the "I defend the Thais at all costs - without even knowing the circumstance" crap

Source: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/620209-driver-in-british-cyclists-fatal-road-accident-released-on-bail/?p=6128033#entry6128033

Thank you for this update, I was not aware of that. I have another update, I found this link on BBC where it mentions, that the fine was 10'000 Baht. This would then be a 1-month-salary fine together with the 2-year-suspended-jail.

Just few comments, also for many others who critiziced my posts:

• I am not a Thai appologist. There are a lot of things in Thai justice that are handled very different in Europe, but I am a foreigner to this land and have to accept the Thai way of doing things. I did mention in my post that such a sentence (2 years and 1 month of salary fine) is equal to verdicts in lot of European countries, IF the judge is convinced that it was a tragic accident and nothing else.
• For those who mention "if it would have been your relatives..." - yes, i would be devastated and would want the driver to be hang by his balls... but I would also have to accept that if the police can not give clear evidence to the judge about either recklessness driving, alcohol, speed or previous convictions, then the judge CAN hand down low and suspended sentences, IF he is convinced that the driver shows real remorse and IF he (the judge) is convinced that it "only" was a tragic accident. That is the same in Europe as it is here in Thailand.
• For those who mentioned 100K compensation for the victims family - as you are (maybe) aware, the victims family has to claim for such compensation and then - and only then - the judge could have handed over such compensation. It looks like the victims family was not there to claim such compensation, thus there is nothing in the ruling. Please bear in mind that in Europe, the victims families would have had to start another claim in court for such a compensation, because the accident is a matter of criminal law while compensation is a matter of civil law. In Thailand, both issues are dealt with in the same ruling, if their is a claim for compensation. Getting compensation in Europe is much more difficult than in Thailand.

I once had an accident where I crushed my car into a bus stop and only because all my guardian angels worked overtime, nobody was sitting there at the time of accident, otherwise I could have killed people. And it happened, because I was distracted by my mobile phone (previous to it been banned to use while driving). This Thai driver obviously - thanks again crobe for the update - was distracted by something, caused the tragic accident with two dead people (British, otherwise it would not make any news here), accepted his guilt, there was no proof of speed or alcohol or drugs, the driver did not have previous convictions - and thus, the sentence given to him is not that different from a sentence he would have received in a European court of law under the same evidence and circumstances.

That is the conclusion I have about this case, that is all I ever said in my posts - and that is also my final comment for this thread.

BTW there could have been an out of court settlement whereby some money (perhaps the 100k mentioned?) was exchanged. Normally in Thailand such incidents are settled out of court.

[SparklingCascades]

The high rate of road accidents in Thailand (amongst the highest in the world) is not just bad-drivers, corrupt issue of licences but also bad courts & a brain-dead justice system. No wonder my country is sometimes mocked as the basket case of Asia. Sacking the govt. is not an answer to our problems. Cleaning up a 1930s stone-age mindset of the military & courts is the challenge we young Thais face.

[mickjn]

You get off that plane you are in another country the laws are different.Of course I feel sorry for the couple who got killed and their family,but there is only one question.When the guy got behind the wheel of the car that day was his intention to kill

Edited May 28, 2014 by mickjn

[Jackson86]

As much as I agree that the penalty is too lenient, this is their law.

[ClutchClark]

You get off that plane you are in another country the laws are different.Of course I feel sorry for the couple who got killed and their family,but there is only one question.When the guy got behind the wheel of the car that day was his intention to kill

Was his intention to kill? No one has suggested he intended to kill those cyclists.

He was not being tried for pre-meditated vehicular homicide.

The question was more a choice of negligent homicide or more serious wreckless homicide.

He was at minimum negligent in not having insurance and was breaking the law for driving without a license.

Can someone help me to understand....

What are the reasons that so many Thai choose to drive without a drivers license?

Is it that they are suspended for previous violations? Is the license difficult to qualify for? Too expensive? Or just considered an inconvenience and unnecessary?

[pantareiyingluck]

Absolute madness!! Where on earth do these crazy laws and decisions come from! £18 pounds??? Disgraceful! Freed to murder without a worry about the poor people and their families he destroyed ....

Have you been there? Have you seen it happen? How do you come to the "murder" conclusion when the judge comes to the accident conclusion? How comes you only mention the 18 pounds but not the 2-year suspended jail sentence attached? Did you ever bother to look at your own countries laws (as I did above) and compared what you would get for an accicent with manslaughter (assuming not being drunk or driving to fast) back in your home country?

But of course... easier to bash than think before...

No, I haven't seen it happen but I know the roads there very very well. Try yourself once the old extension of On Nut from Lat Krabang to Chachoengsao. Truck drivers do competition with each other. New factories are being built there. Exhausted, Yabaa, drunk, cell. phones glued to the ears. Jumping with their trailers over little bridges. Daily lethal accidents. Moblie murder machines. Regularly you see (foreign)cyclists taking this shortcut from BKK towards Cambodia. I always stop and warn them for one of the worst areas on Thailand when it comes to road safety. What is your opinion of the accident? Bananaskin on the tarmack?

[Basil B]

I think the more guilty parties in this are the politicians and police who do nothing to improve driving standards in Thailand.

[coma]

Basically a green light to play a real game of grand theft auto. Not good.

[enuff said]

.

As much as I agree that the penalty is too lenient, this is their law.

Surely the suffering, sorrow and sense of loss of the loved ones is felt by all who know about this tragedy to varying degrees. But is vengeance the answer?

Should you impoverish the driver? Throw him in jail and ruin his family too? How many people should be punished for this horrible incident? Can you picture yourself in this situation?

As far as driving with no license goes, the mid west and southern states of the US are rife. Up to 30% in the most poverty ridden areas. People just getting by and living under the radar can't follow all the laws of modern society.

I know, I know, "Let them eat cake."

'nuff said

~

[haveaniceday]

I wonder how much if a farlang took out 2 Thais ?

[Payboy]

They should also ban him for 2 years from wearing a hat while driving. That would dent his mojo.

[tso310]

I wonder how much if a farlang took out 2 Thais ?

Unfortunately we all know the answer to that.

[kannot]

and he'll be out doing it again already

says who? Do you know the driver? Did you follow him since the accident and examine his driving pattern? Seen any other accidents he had? Did you care to read that he had a "previous good character" meaning no accidents before this tragic event?

bunch of bashing <deleted myself> on here...

I dont have to ONLY A MORON does this whilst driving, a sane responsible person stops to pick up the hat, but its ok you can keep apologising for him if you want.

"Vorawong Sangkawat lost control when he bent down to pick up a hat off the floor"

[kriswillems]

In my country if you unintentionally kill somebody in a road accident, you would also get a fine like this.

You most probably would also have to pay for the loss of lives to the families, but in Europe that are small amounts (100K to 400K person).

Most probably your insurance would pay for all the costs except the fine.

But :

If you wouldn't have a drivers license or insurance, the fine would be very high or you could end up in jail.

Edited May 28, 2014 by kriswillems

[DrTuner]

I wonder how much if a farlang took out 2 Thais ?

The same, if the farang would rot in custody long enough to get an actual court date, which could take a very long time, or pay exorbitant bail and wait for the court date. The bail is apparently not set in the criminal code. I suspect most would settle. Oh, and deportation & blacklisting, naturally.

I suppose the reason courts give the max fine instead of doing time in a prison is that prison time costs and they are already full.

[Fat Haggis]

and he'll be out doing it again already

says who? Do you know the driver? Did you follow him since the accident and examine his driving pattern? Seen any other accidents he had? Did you care to read that he had a "previous good character" meaning no accidents before this tragic event?

bunch of bashing <deleted myself> on here...

I dont have to ONLY A MORON does this whilst driving, a sane responsible person stops to pick up the hat, but its ok you can keep apologising for him if you want.

"Vorawong Sangkawat lost control when he bent down to pick up a hat off the floor"

I hope you feel the same way about people on mobile phones

[ABCer]

The high rate of road accidents in Thailand (amongst the highest in the world) is not just bad-drivers, corrupt issue of licences but also bad courts & a brain-dead justice system. No wonder my country is sometimes mocked as the basket case of Asia. Sacking the govt. is not an answer to our problems. Cleaning up a 1930s stone-age mindset of the military & courts is the challenge we young Thais face.

Dear "young Thai". You are welcome to this Forum.

I have confidence in your passionate National pride, your well of knowledge of local problems and enthusiasm to meet challenges ahead.

Just try not to upset unnecessarily those 'old farangs' in your motto. Most of them mean well and have something you don't - experience.

Oh, and disrespect for the aged is very un-Thai.

[spidermike007]

Another impotent judge displaying his lack of wisdom or courage. What can one even say? What is the message here, to the outside world? Does anyone care? Wow.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[joepattaya1961]

It doesn't matter.........USD 18 or USD 180,000...........the truck-driver was found guilty and the Thai system allows the family of the deceased cyclists to start a law-case against the truck-driver..........that's the system in Thailand.........something to consider while entering Thailand by bike or even participating in traffic here.

[kannot]

and he'll be out doing it again already

says who? Do you know the driver? Did you follow him since the accident and examine his driving pattern? Seen any other accidents he had? Did you care to read that he had a "previous good character" meaning no accidents before this tragic event?

bunch of bashing <deleted myself> on here...

I dont have to ONLY A MORON does this whilst driving, a sane responsible person stops to pick up the hat, but its ok you can keep apologising for him if you want.

"Vorawong Sangkawat lost control when he bent down to pick up a hat off the floor"

I hope you feel the same way about people on mobile phones

Yep theres only one place your hands should be when driving, on the wheel and there's only one place you should be thinking about, the road.

[kannot]

In my country if you unintentionally kill somebody in a road accident, you would also get a fine like this.

You most probably would also have to pay for the loss of lives to the families, but in Europe that are small amounts (100K to 400K person).

Most probably your insurance would pay for all the costs except the fine.

But :

If you wouldn't have a drivers license or insurance, the fine would be very high or you could end up in jail.

in the Uk no tax or licence or any one of the two = no insurance , ie they void it

[mickjn]

ClutchClark, on 27 May 2014 - 22:32, said:

mickjn, on 27 May 2014 - 21:41, said:

You get off that plane you are in another country the laws are different.Of course I feel sorry for the couple who got killed and their family,but there is only one question.When the guy got behind the wheel of the car that day was his intention to kill

Was his intention to kill? No one has suggested he intended to kill those cyclists.

He was not being tried for pre-meditated vehicular homicide.

The question was more a choice of negligent homicide or more serious wreckless homicide.

He was at minimum negligent in not having insurance and was breaking the law for driving without a license.

Can someone help me to understand....

What are the reasons that so many Thai choose to drive without a drivers license?

Is it that they are suspended for previous violations? Is the license difficult to qualify for? Too expensive? Or just considered an inconvenience and unnecessary?

I am not talking about the 2 people that got killed I am talking about anyone

[chongtak]

Absolute madness!! Where on earth do these crazy laws and decisions come from! £18 pounds??? Disgraceful! Freed to murder without a worry about the poor people and their families he destroyed ....

Have you been there? Have you seen it happen? How do you come to the "murder" conclusion when the judge comes to the accident conclusion? How comes you only mention the 18 pounds but not the 2-year suspended jail sentence attached? Did you ever bother to look at your own countries laws (as I did above) and compared what you would get for an accicent with manslaughter (assuming not being drunk or driving to fast) back in your home country?

But of course... easier to bash than think before...

In your rich country life is quite cheap. In France killing someone by accident on the road will send you to jail for five years and the fine will be 75.000 euros. If the driver was drunk it's seven years in jail and 100.000 euros. (Art. 221-6)