Unprofessional and unskilled English Teacher's do you feel guilty?

[Thai at Heart]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

It is a question of what part of the language you are teaching and the level.of students.

[Nickthegreek]

We have a Philippine employee in our office that would run rings around 90% of the farang professionals in Thailand and probably speaks better English. If they are all like this I will hire nothing but Filipinos.

I have worked with Filipino English teachers, and there English is every bit as good, if not better than native English speakers.

Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher..

I spend hours ever week re -training all the words that my Daughter hears incorrectly so she understands what real English sounds like.

The main issue I see is that Thais from an early age pick up their native tongue and R becomes L as We all know, sadly a Filipino in my humble opinion cannot train this out as they don't have the training to work on pronunciation and by the time the children get to 6/7, its too late to undo the damage.....

I still remember and and encourage my Daughter to say " Peter Piper Picked a Pickled Pepper " I am no teacher,but she is now clear, albeit not to Uk speed quite yet.

The man speaking is a Filipino English teacher in Thailand.

Now what do you think? Do you speak better English than the Filipino in the video?

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

.

[LawrenceN]

How can you judge of the quality of English instruction? You use an apostrophe when forming a simple plural such as "teachers."

A non-native speaker can be a pretty good teacher of a language. Non-native speakers often have a really good perspective on what it takes to learn a second language.

[thailiketoo]

Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher..

I spend hours ever week re -training all the words that my Daughter hears incorrectly so she understands what real English sounds like.

The main issue I see is that Thais from an early age pick up their native tongue and R becomes L as We all know, sadly a Filipino in my humble opinion cannot train this out as they don't have the training to work on pronunciation and by the time the children get to 6/7, its too late to undo the damage.....

I still remember and and encourage my Daughter to say " Peter Piper Picked a Pickled Pepper " I am no teacher,but she is now clear, albeit not to Uk speed quite yet.

The man speaking is a Filipino English teacher in Thailand.

Now what do you think? Do you speak better English than the Filipino in the video?

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

You wrote, "Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher.."

After listening to the Filipino teacher playing with the children in the video that is obviously false. I would invite any other opinions.

[cup-O-coffee]

Why I ask this is because my GF sister's kids that live in the countryside with their grandma were calling their mum that does not have a lot of money asking could they get money for an English Learning Weekend Camp.

Now she didn't have the money for it but felt bad so she borrowed some cash of my GF to pay for it.

Now I know enough that most of these Falang teachers on these English Camp are not even trained teachers and a lot of them are not even Native English speakers!

I think this is wrong! What is your opinion?

There is nothing wrong. It is all in your mind, your GF's mind, your GF's sister's mind and those kids. Each one of you, I submit, are not totally in one accord with what I expect should be the chief focus: these kids learning fluent English so they can improve their value added prospects when they become old enough to be employed.

How much money are we talking about? Are you certain these kids will even use it for this camp... and is there even, in fact, an English camp out there in the countryside? It seems a bit odd that a countryside school is pushing an English camp to poor, rural peasants, .., and at a price that is not economically feasible to these poor people. Is there a Mercedes dealership in this countryside town? Have you investigated this anomoly and contacted anyone who can put your mind at rest?

Moreover, at what age are these kids, and chiefly, what have they done thus far with the tools that life has given them... namely a brain? Do they speak any English at all, or is this merely another spectacular charade to be entertained by foreigners and rub elbows with their peers in between twittering and facebooking?

To summarize, I think you all are addled. If the kids are intent to learn English, then teach them English in a serious environment. It's called SCHOOL. If, on the other hand, they want to have fun, then send them to a football camp or something like that. If kids can't produce when they are in class, then I do not see any reason why they should be rewarded for nothingness, and celebrate mediocrity by wasting monay and sending their lazy little asses to a camp which rewards them for a curriculum they failed miserably at.

There are too many unknowns here, yet at which you summarily dismiss, and rather instead focus on teachers, whose abilities you question and whom you place in a negative light, and of which all of this you aren't certain that there is, in fact a camp.

Or wait! You are going to cough up money just because your GF's Sister's kids, who live with their poor grandmother out in the countryside, say so???

You are buying all of this without any research, and at the same time accusing teachers you've never met...

...and you say you are a teacher yourself, and place your abilities above those whom only exist in your mind at present?

Now, who is unprofessional and unskilled, I wonder?

Edited May 30, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[Soutpeel]

Well I read all the posts up to 25. There are a lot of NESs amongst them, whose grammar isn't all that wonderful.

By the way Myran, it is learnt.

Could that be to do with fact NES are not usually taught grammar until high school, and by that time they are already native speakers ?

Which begs question, why in Thailand is there such a bias on grammar ?....I don't remember growing up and my mother telling me this is a verb, this is an adverb....I managed ok without this, and in fact, in high school when it was forced down our throats, I hated English grammar, but even with my intense hatred of all things grammar and more specifically grammar Nazi's, It hasn't hindered my ability to communicate effectively in the English language.

So one would question the value of someone even learning grammatical rules, unless someone aspires to become an English teacher of course..

Typically among the NES population the only people actually care about grammar are the English teachers...

[Soutpeel]

How can you judge of the quality of English instruction? You use an apostrophe when forming a simple plural such as "teachers."

A non-native speaker can be a pretty good teacher of a language. Non-native speakers often have a really good perspective on what it takes to learn a second language.

No all this proves is the person pointing this out is a grammar Nazi, that's all....

the measure of the quality of English instruction comes from the ability of the student to communicate effectively and be understood in the ideas the student trying to convey.

If a student can do this who cares if an apostrophe is missing...

[sean in udon]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native ?

I think its a good start to be native at least! As just yesterday I was speaking to a friend of a friend that is Chinese's and he is a qualified Chinese teacher here in Bangkok, and he was joking to me that there are French and Spanish English Teacher here in Thailand with heavy accents. He taught it was hilarious!

Don't shot the messengers here please.....

Many moons ago, I spent a year in Turkey. I gave English lessons in exchange for Turkish lessons to a 15 year old schoolboy. His understanding of the English language, use of punctuation, vocabulary, etc were all excellent.

If he sat an English language exam in the UK, I'd be very surprised if he didn't get an A.

Since leaving school, he's added Russian to his language skills.

His job? He's a private tutor for all 3 languages.

I would have no hesitation recommending him as an English teacher. His English is better than a lot of native Brits.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Nickthegreek]

Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher..

I spend hours ever week re -training all the words that my Daughter hears incorrectly so she understands what real English sounds like.

The main issue I see is that Thais from an early age pick up their native tongue and R becomes L as We all know, sadly a Filipino in my humble opinion cannot train this out as they don't have the training to work on pronunciation and by the time the children get to 6/7, its too late to undo the damage.....

I still remember and and encourage my Daughter to say " Peter Piper Picked a Pickled Pepper " I am no teacher,but she is now clear, albeit not to Uk speed quite yet.

The man speaking is a Filipino English teacher in Thailand.

Now what do you think? Do you speak better English than the Filipino in the video?

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

You wrote, "Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher.."

After listening to the Filipino teacher playing with the children in the video that is obviously false. I would invite any other opinions.

I stand by my original statement ! " I have yet to meet " and his accent is ok..but its not British and that is clear...

The original Op asked, do we feel guilty ?? I fine tune my Daughters spoken English to ensure she does not sound anything other than British, as I think its important for her future, I don't want My child to sound American or Asian or Filipino so whilst I do not feel guilty with her current schooling ! I work to improve her skills.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Nickthegreek

[Soutpeel]

His English is better than a lot of native Brits.

In what way ?....I keep hearing these sorts of comments, what benchmark are you using ?

I am still waiting for some to define what constitutes "good English".....please don't say its because they know where to put an apostrophe...

Edited May 30, 2014 by Soutpeel

[sean in udon]

How can you judge of the quality of English instruction? You use an apostrophe when forming a simple plural such as "teachers."

A non-native speaker can be a pretty good teacher of a language. Non-native speakers often have a really good perspective on what it takes to learn a second language.

While I agree with your second statement, the first has me confused.

The plural of teacher is teachers.

For showing possession, an apostrophe would be appropriate.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[thailiketoo]

The man speaking is a Filipino English teacher in Thailand.

Now what do you think? Do you speak better English than the Filipino in the video?

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

You wrote, "Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher.."

After listening to the Filipino teacher playing with the children in the video that is obviously false. I would invite any other opinions.

I stand by my original statement ! " I have yet to meet " and his accent is ok..but its not British and that is clear...

The original Op asked do we feel guilty ?? I fine tune my Daughters spoken English to ensure she does not sound anything other than British as I think its important for her future, I don't want My child to sound American or Asian or Filipino so whilst I am not guilty with her schooling ! I work to improve her skills.

The person in question above speaks, Thai, German and French in addition to English.

He was educated at American schools so of course he does not have a British accent. It has been my experience in business in Thailand an American accent is preferred as it is more understandable to more people.

You wrote, "Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher.." You did not write speaks English with a British accent or specify which of the many British accents you meant.

I am an English person in that I speak English and have English ancestors.

I think you are being silly when you say a Thai speaking with a British accent speaks any better than a Thai speaking English with an American accent.

At my company we have both British and American technical inspectors. The Thais all want to work with the American ones because they can understand them better. Of course they can understand both but it is easier with the Americans.

That is only my experience and I only mention it to counter your experience.

I have taught with both British and Filipino teachers and found their personalities and teaching styles far more important than their nationality. We have two full time language interpretors at my company and they are both Filipino and make twice what any government teacher would make. I could have had an American or Brit but chose Filipino.

Edited May 30, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Thai at Heart]

We have a Philippine employee in our office that would run rings around 90% of the farang professionals in Thailand and probably speaks better English. If they are all like this I will hire nothing but Filipinos.

I have worked with Filipino English teachers, and there English is every bit as good, if not better than native English speakers.

Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher..

I spend hours ever week re -training all the words that my Daughter hears incorrectly so she understands what real English sounds like.

The main issue I see is that Thais from an early age pick up their native tongue and R becomes L as We all know, sadly a Filipino in my humble opinion cannot train this out as they don't have the training to work on pronunciation and by the time the children get to 6/7, its too late to undo the damage.....

I still remember and and encourage my Daughter to say " Peter Piper Picked a Pickled Pepper " I am no teacher,but she is now clear, albeit not to Uk speed quite yet.

The man speaking is a Filipino English teacher in Thailand.

Now what do you think? Do you speak better English than the Filipino in the video?

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

.

Since we are discussing English. The point is "moot".

[Thai at Heart]

The man speaking is a Filipino English teacher in Thailand.

Now what do you think? Do you speak better English than the Filipino in the video?

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

You wrote, "Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher.."

After listening to the Filipino teacher playing with the children in the video that is obviously false. I would invite any other opinions.

I stand by my original statement ! " I have yet to meet " and his accent is ok..but its not British and that is clear...

The original Op asked do we feel guilty ?? I fine tune my Daughters spoken English to ensure she does not sound anything other than British as I think its important for her future, I don't want My child to sound American or Asian or Filipino so whilst I am not guilty with her schooling ! I work to improve her skills.

The person in question above speaks, Thai, German and French in addition to English.

He was educated at American schools so of course he does not have a British accent. It has been my experience in business in Thailand an American accent is preferred as it is more understandable to more people.

You wrote, "Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher.." You did not write speaks English with a British accent or specify which of the many British accents you meant.

I am an English person in that I speak English and have English ancestors.

I think you are being silly when you say a Thai speaking with a British accent speaks any better than a Thai speaking English with an American accent.

At my company we have both British and American technical inspectors. The Thais all want to work with the American ones because they can understand them better. Of course they can understand both but it is easier with the Americans.

That is only my experience and I only mention it to counter your experience.

I have taught with both British and Filipino teachers and found their personalities and teaching styles far more important than their nationality. We have two full time language interpretors at my company and they are both Filipino and make twice what any government teacher would make. I could have had an American or Brit but chose Filipino.

But Americans all just seem to love the British accent. You all are just so quaint.

Never heard anyone say they have a love of an American over British accent. New one on me.

Of course Rab C Nesbitt is a native speaker too.

[thailiketoo]

But Americans all just seem to love the British accent. You all are just so quaint.

Never heard anyone say they have a love of an American over British accent. New one on me.

Of course Rab C Nesbitt is a native speaker too.

I think it is a business thing. I believe there are far more American companies in Thailand than British ones but I could be wrong. Dow and Ford, Western Digital and Seagate first come to mind as being American and a very large presence in Thailand.

[CWMcMurray]

The other thing is i hope there not hiring scruffy,unwashed dreadlocked ,backpackers,who turn up half stoned,as this give a bad impression to the young students. I was a backpacker once before the onslaught start's but, i was always well presented,Safari suit,topee etc.

Pith helmet as well ? ..Kendal mint cake in hand and Darjeeling on the brew ?

Most certainly ,sir,and i always made sure my shoes where shined to such a level i could see the reflections of the clouds wandering across the heavens above,small baton under arm,just in case i had to make the natives jump to it,that kind of thing,yes,wonderful times.

Did you actually shine your own shoes ? Didn't you have a house boy to take care of such mundane things?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nickthegreek]

Thai at heart "I am an English person in that I speak English and have English ancestors. "

So you are American then ? as I have never met a Brit who retorts to reminding us they have ancestors!!

Thanks for the correction on Moot...!!

[Nickthegreek]

We have a Philippine employee in our office that would run rings around 90% of the farang professionals in Thailand and probably speaks better English. If they are all like this I will hire nothing but Filipinos.

I have worked with Filipino English teachers, and there English is every bit as good, if not better than native English speakers.

Sadly I have yet to meet one Filipino that can speak English as well, or even close to that of an English person..let alone close to the skill set of a real English Teacher..

I spend hours ever week re -training all the words that my Daughter hears incorrectly so she understands what real English sounds like.

The main issue I see is that Thais from an early age pick up their native tongue and R becomes L as We all know, sadly a Filipino in my humble opinion cannot train this out as they don't have the training to work on pronunciation and by the time the children get to 6/7, its too late to undo the damage.....

I still remember and and encourage my Daughter to say " Peter Piper Picked a Pickled Pepper " I am no teacher,but she is now clear, albeit not to Uk speed quite yet.

The man speaking is a Filipino English teacher in Thailand.

Now what do you think? Do you speak better English than the Filipino in the video?

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

.

Since we are discussing English. The point is "moot".

Not been a day in my adult life when I have failed to speak English to a higher standard than the guy in the video...

[Zooheekock]

Not been a day in my adult life when I have failed to speak English to a higher standard than the guy in the video...

Rubbish. Judging from that video, his English is perfect. There's no 'higher standard' which you could speak. You might think that you sound whiter and you might be right, but that's not better.

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

I'm willing to bet, however, that his written English is better than this sorry sample.

[tubby johnson]

now this will be good,,

and ill lay odds, that the old falang verses young falang card comes out to play,

there young,,,lol

this will be good,, wait till schools out,,lol

I'm impressed by your mastery of spelling, punctuation, complex sentence structures and sophisticated choice of vocabulary.

You must be an English teacher.

[thailiketoo]

Not been a day in my adult life when I have failed to speak English to a higher standard than the guy in the video...

Nick I have heard 4 year old Thai kids speak better English than you every day.

[Nickthegreek]

Not been a day in my adult life when I have failed to speak English to a higher standard than the guy in the video...

Nick I have heard 4 year old Thai kids speak better English than you every day.

Now I doubt that very much as I don't know you..!!

[thailiketoo]

Not been a day in my adult life when I have failed to speak English to a higher standard than the guy in the video...

Nick I have heard 4 year old Thai kids speak better English than you every day.

Now I doubt that very much as I don't know you..!!

It has the same likelihood of being true since none of us has ever heard you speak.

I, on the other hand, have posted a video in which a man speaks perfect English.

[Soutpeel]

now this will be good,,

and ill lay odds, that the old falang verses young falang card comes out to play,

there young,,,lol

this will be good,, wait till schools out,,lol

I'm impressed by your mastery of spelling, punctuation, complex sentence structures and sophisticated choice of vocabulary.

You must be an English teacher.

Naah he has a job that pays real money...

[Nickthegreek]

Not been a day in my adult life when I have failed to speak English to a higher standard than the guy in the video...

Rubbish. Judging from that video, his English is perfect. There's no 'higher standard' which you could speak. You might think that you sound whiter and you might be right, but that's not better.

Whilst his Spoken English may be good, its not clear, I am British....the sounds are not the same and his native !! language is not English....so the video is a mute point..sorry...

By all means open it up for judgement !!

I'm willing to bet, however, that his written English is better than this sorry sample.

Do feel free to educate Me please, as at no point did I profess to be a Teacher, or in any way was I perfect in written English.. Not wanting to FLAME You which is against forum rules, I will let it slide, after I receive Your full essay on My written mistakes !

Edited May 30, 2014 by Nickthegreek

[wilcopops]

Everyone’s an expert!

This has got to be some kind of record for the amount of utter nonsense posted in one thread.

“Unskilled”

“Unprofessional”

And “good”

What on earth are people talking about? They have absolutely no idea of what constitutes a “skilled” “professional” or “good” teacher yet are prepared to scribble down reams on the subject.

I find it astounding that people will accept the word of some “professionals” without question and just assume they must be right; doctors, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, lawyers and accountants, no problem, but when it comes to education - a subject of massive complexity, everyone’s an expert.

Yes, there are a lot of flaky practitioners in education whose enterprises are little more than scams, but the criteria discussed on this thread (v. above) are simply not viable. Most of the people here wouldn’t be able to identify one if the guy stood in front of them wearing a t-shirt saying “Beware flaky teacher”

Please don’t try and make a definition because judging by the rubbish posted so far, all that will happen is a series of nape-of-the-neck assumptions about what a teacher should be.

Edited May 30, 2014 by wilcopops

[Nickthegreek]

Not been a day in my adult life when I have failed to speak English to a higher standard than the guy in the video...

Nick I have heard 4 year old Thai kids speak better English than you every day.

Now I doubt that very much as I don't know you..!!

It has the same likelihood of being true since none of us has ever heard you speak.

I, on the other hand, have posted a video in which a man speaks perfect English.

Well done you...

[F4UCorsair]

One of my favorite co-teachers was a youngish teacher in Trat. I wont say her name, but she busted her hump to teach those kids English. The rest of the English department in that school was... weak, either lacking confidence or inclination. But she was a phenomenon. She was pulling those kids up purely by the force of her own will and energy. These arent easy battles, the kids are super sweet, but English wasn't really the most pressing of their concerns (despite living in a town that does see enough tourism to at least make it relevant to some degree). We did a speaking test just before i left that had me stunned in amazement at just how low their level was (all the way to M3). Youre talking about kids who are repeating text books in their English class and literally just mouthing sounds out. They could read the passage they were currently on, but couldnt read an incredibly simple passage from the P4 textbook. (This is my friend... she is... she has... etc). This is the backdrop of what she was pushing against.

Anyways, i remember having a conversation with her. She comes from Chiang Rai, and aside from lamenting that the kids in Trat were super rude in we were talking about pay for English teachers in Thailand. She told me flat out that she could walk into a job in tourism, like her friends did, paying almost twice what she earned as a teacher. Now maybe there is some hyperbole there. Maybe there isnt. Im not an expert on Thai tourism. But the point is this:

There may come a time that Thailand loses one of the most dedicated, hard working teachers Ive personally seen simply because it doesn't reward them and to be honest, that should be viewed as a national failure. Lets not even speak of ESL salaries (which are embarrassingly HIGH in Thailand despite being relatively woeful in the East Asian ESL industry). For a country like Thailand, they really need to start collecting taxes and paying for a proper and functioning education system. And part of that will be a genuine living wage for QUALIFIED and DEDICATED teachers. And by teachers we dont mean someone who passed a stupid test by reading some books. We mean people that have had supervision over the course of several years by qualified and experienced teachers culminating in a genuine and formal teaching qualification. In that same school i also saw some shockers. Homeroom teachers who laughed at clear examples of students being bullied and ostracized by their entire class as well as teachers who spent their time in class on their phone while the students did something with a textbook. Then theres the teachers who just didnt show up and the schools who had no one around to even supervise the kids, let alone teach them. Its a mess.

I left for China because it was just utterly overwhelming. I didnt even know where to begin...

Inutil, if you're an English teacher, with your leaving, Thailand's schools are the winners.

I don't set out to be objectionable, but your English is not good, even after I allow for potential typos.

Oh god...

I presume you don't agree??

All I'm saying is that if you teach English, and criticize others for not being able to deliver the goods, you need to be showing a high level of competency yourself, and I don't see that in your post.

If you'd prefer to place a note at the top of your posts that you're an English teacher, but don't care to write a reasonable standard yourself, you can probably get away with what you write without criticism.

[Suradit69]

Some of those who post in the "education" forum seem blissfully unaware that they are unskilled and lacking any meaningful qualifications. Several seem to believe if they are from England then that is the only qualification that matters and then they carry on about making boarder runs, having piece of mind, loosing there passports, asking for someone to advice them or to offer some advise and fretting that they may not have to much time too find a place to stay in a quite area. [And yes a real teacher of English would be waving his/her red marker maniacally at that last sentence].

There also seems to be a belief that if you expose non-English speakers to someone babbling away in (relatively coherent) English, that those thus exposed will absorb the language through immersion. The same people proposing that approach may have managed to be immersed in Thailand for years without absorbing more than 10 Thai words.

[bermondburi]

shocking!

Oh dear

I don't profess to be an English teacher dear boy, but seeing as you feel obligated to correct my work in the style of a typical TV English Nazi, one suspects you must be

Maybe I should employ you as my proof reader, sure you could do with the money...

No. my tax free Saudi salary is more than enough thanks. Try reading what you've written before posting in future and you might do better. C+