It's Time To Drop Beckham And Owen...

[Backpack_thailand]

Beckham should have been at his peak 4 years ago but sadly was injured. For the remainder of this World Cup Owen should be a late sub if we are deperate for a goal. It's not fair on him as he's been out for 5 months and is way off the pace! He'll be back though, still our greatest goal scorer (when fit!).

I bet Sven is regretting not taking another striker now (Defoe, Bent).

Beckham is now so comfortable in his position being GUARANTEED a game by Uncle Sven that's he's lost the hunger. He hasn't had a decent game for us for at least 3 years..!!! Same happened to Paul Scholes and he had the sense to quit despite still being a great player.

Lennon for Becks, Crouch & Rooney up top and possibly switch Ferdinand for Campbell. Rio is the most over rated centre back in the country and I thnik there's at least 4 or 5 better players than him.

Be bold Mr.Eriksson if you want to retire as an England legend, maybe we'll see you on the BACK pages for change!

[Nongwahyay]

I hope this article is not too long - it made such interesting reading that I thought I would paste it.................................

Argentina's annihilation of Serbia and Montenegro yesterday, a carnival of one-touch football, should have focused the minds of those England players sitting in the television room of their Black Forest hideaway, watching the pyrotechnics of Maxi Rodriguez, Hernan Crespo and Lionel Messi.

Not only must England finish top of Group B to avoid the possibility of facing Argentina in the quarter-finals of this compelling World Cup, Sven-Goran Eriksson's men must also embrace the Latins' philosophy of treating the ball as a precious gift to be shared among friends.

Argentina's top-of-the-bill variety show in Gelsenkirchen, the most bewitching display of a tournament of gathering grandeur, has not so much put down a marker as thrown down a gauntlet. Match us if you can.

If England are to live with the flair offered by Argentina, they must get their technique and their tactics right. They cannot simply rely on David Beckham's right foot, Peter Crouch's head and Steven Gerrard's heart and lungs. Or hope that Ashley Cole's slight thigh problem eases so he can provide more zest down the left.

A touch of magic is required. "This team needs to improve if we want to stay in Germany for a long time," Gerrard observed, with customary candour. Help is at hand. It is difficult to know what took a bigger hammering from Wayne Rooney in Nuremberg on Thursday: the walls of the Frankenstadion changing-room as he smashed the ball about before kick off, or the ears of his England colleagues who were constantly reminded how desperate he was to play.

"Before the game he was kicking the ball around the dressing room, just dying to get out there and play," added Gerrard of his close friend. "He is so enthusiastic." After seven weeks out injured, Rooney was far from influential in possession, but his mere presence when arriving from the bench for Michael Owen seemed to galvanise England to a 2-0 victory over Trinidad and Tobago.

Now that the medical experts, and not the managers, have decided Rooney is ready for combat, and the doctors were called in to satisfy insurance demands, Rooney can lift England's spirits, bringing invention and touch to forward ventures. "He is our best player, our key man and we are a better team with him," Gerrard enthused. "I just love playing with him. Everyone does in the squad. He is always in space and is great to link with."

Thursday's two captains also queued up to eulogise Rooney. "He is a massive player and a massive influence for the team," said Dwight Yorke, the leader of the Soca Warriors. "The quicker they get him back, the better it will be for England. Obviously he is not as match fit as we all would like and it will take a bit of time before he gets to that level."

David Beckham agreed. "The world needs a player like Wayne Rooney," the England captain said. "You want to see the best players performing in the biggest competitions in the world and we have got one. We are lucky he has come back very quickly but we still have to be very patient."

Rooney, like a child waiting for a sweet shop to open, does not understand the concept of patience. As England players confirm, he has resembled a stone in a stretching catapult these past few frustrating weeks, aching for the moment to be launched at the opposition. "When he came back in (after the game) he was like a little kid," Beckham added. Delight ruled. The dressing room walls were saved further paint-peeling punishment.

Eriksson's thoughts must now turn to whether to start Rooney against Sweden in Cologne on Tuesday in a game England must draw to guarantee finishing top of Group B, so probably avoiding Germany and Argentina, two sides no one wants to face.

Eriksson will know the Group B qualifiers' second-round opponents before the 8pm (UK time) kick off, as Ecuador and Germany lock horns three hours earlier in Berlin to decide Group A. But as Fifa demand the team-sheet 75 minutes before kick off, Eriksson cannot change his line-up after full time in Berlin.

As for those players a caution away from second-round suspension, Gerrard, Lampard and Crouch, Eriksson said: "The only way I would leave them out would be if we had already won the group before that game." As the Group B high ground has still to be fought over, Eriksson cannot afford to omit luminaries like Gerrard, who is anxious to play.

It is not the England way to hold back going into a game, resting players or making tactical decisions to accept defeat and settle for second. England must go for it, although Eriksson may look at Owen Hargreaves in training to see if he should field a holding player, while mulling over whether to start Rooney against a Swedish defence which lacks nothing in toughness. "Of course, it's tempting to let him start," an undecided Eriksson said of Rooney, "but it's important he doesn't risk anything."

More immediately, the tension simmering between Eriksson and Owen, his vice-captain, needs addressing. The Swede was keen to stress yesterday that Owen "did shake hands" with him when he was hauled off for Rooney. "Of course, he's not happy but that he should be showing a bad reaction because of that, no, that's not Michael," Eriksson said.

As Owen indicated yesterday, his game is being hampered by the coaches' demands of ordering him deep at times. In training, Steve McClaren drills into the strikers the need for one to drop back the moment the opposition gain control of the ball. McClaren shouts "4-5-1" time after time, and Owen or Crouch dutifully trot back to stiffen the midfield.

Owen willingly does his share of harrying centre-halves, in the style of another Liverpool legend, Ian Rush. Yet Owen was not put on this white-lined earth to help out in midfield. He needs to be as high up the field as possible, lurking off the shoulder of the last defender, ready to pounce as he has done 36 times in 79 internationals.

Again, Rooney offers a solution. McClaren's mantra of "4-5-1" when the opponents have the ball will work naturally with Rooney in the side. The United striker is lord of the domain between midfield and attack, linking with Gerrard and Lampard, and driving forward.

Rooney's return may liberate Owen to focus on what he does best, getting in behind defenders, looking for that clever pass from Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham or Joe Cole. Omitting the popular, goalscoring Crouch would be controversial but Rooney and Owen remain England's best strikers. Owen deserves another chance against Sweden, another hour to re-light his fire.

Body language, and team shape, will be fascinating in training today. Argentina's prowess will have reminded England of the high standards demanded at this terrific World Cup.

[dantilley]

There's no way Beckham will be dropped. Apart from being still a very good player, he's team captain. He was one of our best players against Paraguay and was also decent against Trinidad. He set up Crocuh's goal and created the own goal against Paraguay. Lennon plays a different style of game and I agree that he should play against Sweden, but at right back instead of Neville / Carragher, not instead of Beckham.

Owen, I agree, has had two poor games. But he has a habit of pulling it out of the bag when it counts, and I still back him to hit form and score a few in this tournament.

Edited June 17, 2006 by dantilley

[Tarragona]

Beckham's game has always been fairly limited but so far he hasn't played too badly. I wouldn't mind if he was dropped but there's no guarantee you'll get more out of Lennon.

You will almost certainly get very little from Owen if you bring him on as a late sub. If he's short of match fitness he needs time on the pitch. He's still England's best bet as a goalscorer and, as he pointed out himself, he hasn't had too many chances yet.

Edited June 17, 2006 by Tarragona

[Backpack_thailand]

Beckham's game has always been fairly limited but so far he hasn't played too badly. I wouldn't mind if he was dropped but there's no guarantee you'll get more out of Lennon.

You'd get pace, genuine pace and a fear of the unknown from the opposition. There's nobody quicker over the first 20 yards in the tournament.

Agree Owen needs time on the pitch but you can't gain match sharpness DURING a World Cup. If you're not fit you shouldn't be there in the first place. This where I feel Eriksson has slipped, not so much taking Owen but not having adequate cover. Either Defoe or Bent would be lie-for-like. Owen's been out for 5 months, that's half a season!!

Why take Walcott if you're not going to use him...???

Anyhoo, I've said all along the way to make use of our genuine world class talent is to play 3-5-2 (Wing Backs). Then you could utilise Gerrard, Lampard AND a holding midfielder which we are badly lacking. Carrick or Hargreaves.

Good player Hargreaves despite his criticism. He's never been used in his proper position.

[britmaveric]

Becks on any given day is a world beater. He's dangeous and I don't think he's going anywhere any time soon - expect him to be in the WC as his last.

[thankuverybig]

whatever your opinion on beckham,i think he should be in the team for crosses & free kicks alone.

how many times has he created a goal for england with a cross or whipped in a long ball?

the problem with owen is that he needs the service,& when england arnt performing,he probably is not going to change a game like rooney can.

[redrus]

No no, if you could replace them with Ronaldinho and Deco, then yeah.....

Patience is most definately a virtue and, Beck's forms been really good in the run up so much so, I would rather Fergie swallowed his pride and brought the lad home to the club he loves. Never gonna happen but, Owen's been out for a while and while I agree with you that there should be another striker it should be at the expense of Hargreaves.

We've won both our games so far, if you'd not seen the games, you'd be over the moon with the scene.

England arn't really famous for pretty football are we, suppose you could choose, win the world cup play <deleted>, or out in the second round paling like Brazil........?

redrus

[tom yum goong]

Owen's been out for a while and while I agree with you that there should be another striker it should be at the expense of Hargreaves.

Hargreaves is England's only decent defensive midfielder and if England played him behind either Gerrard of Lampard, England would be much more effective.

The fact that he plays in that position for one of the best teams in Europe speaks volumes. When Bayern won the champions league he was voted best young player of the tournament. Its a disgrace he gets so much stick as he's never been given a chance to prove himself, only 10 minute cameos at the end of matches.

Now Jenas is another matter entirely. Why is he in the squad? How many players would have to get injured before he got a game.

[redrus]

Owen's been out for a while and while I agree with you that there should be another striker it should be at the expense of Hargreaves.

Hargreaves is England's only decent defensive midfielder and if England played him behind either Gerrard of Lampard, England would be much more effective.

The fact that he plays in that position for one of the best teams in Europe speaks volumes. When Bayern won the champions league he was voted best young player of the tournament. Its a disgrace he gets so much stick as he's never been given a chance to prove himself, only 10 minute cameos at the end of matches.

Now Jenas is another matter entirely. Why is he in the squad? How many players would have to get injured before he got a game.

I don't dissagree with you but, Jenas could change a game. Hargreaves, and I don't deny his pedigree, will not.

My problem with it is, that we need another striker, Defoe should not have gone home, we don't need a defensive midfielder.

redrus

[tom yum goong]

Agreed about needing another striker. Not convinced about Defoe after the last season. If he's not good enough to start for Spurs, he sure isn't good enough for England. Bent had a great season and should be in the squad.

England may need a defensive midfielder if they come up against an attacking team like Brazil or the Argies. I actually believe they should play with one anyway. Gerrard and Lampard both play in front of a DM for their club and are much more effective when they don't have to defend so much. Sacrifice either Gerrard or Lampard and play Hargreaves. Better yet, drop Beckham and play Gerrard on the right.

Never gonna happen with Sven in charge though

[ThaiPauly]

I think Bechham is playing OK.. Owen however is not..but then as has already been pointed out he can turn a game in a second of brilliance.

Crouch IMHO does not have that ability, Yes he scored against T&T but he wasted so many chances.

As for Lennon, Yes he is the quickest player over 20 yards, but his ball control skills are not honed yet, and he likes to beat one player too many before making a cross for my liking, which often results in him being dispossessed.

If I was Sven I would start with Owen & Rooney up front and bring Sol in for Rio, Sol is also more likely to score than Rio ever will

[chonabot]

Owen's been out for a while and while I agree with you that there should be another striker it should be at the expense of Hargreaves.

Hargreaves is England's only decent defensive midfielder and if England played him behind either Gerrard of Lampard, England would be much more effective.

The fact that he plays in that position for one of the best teams in Europe speaks volumes. When Bayern won the champions league he was voted best young player of the tournament. Its a disgrace he gets so much stick as he's never been given a chance to prove himself, only 10 minute cameos at the end of matches.

Now Jenas is another matter entirely. Why is he in the squad? How many players would have to get injured before he got a game.

The fact that you rate Hargreaves so highly, and question Jenas, tells me that you watch the Bundesliga rather more than the Premiership. Jenas has only played a handful of 'cameo' roles for England, yet he has scored a goal and has a great free kick, runs at players, and has pace.

Hargreaves has had 31 games with 7 starts and no-one is impressed with him in the England set up. Doubtless he can play well , just not for England. Some players fall into this category , John Barnes to name just one. Perhaps the new manager will use him differently, but I think Hargreaves will , hopefully, fade away.

Edited June 18, 2006 by chonabot

[Backpack_thailand]

Chonners, are your a Spurs boy...???

[chonabot]

Chonners, are your a Spurs boy...???

Well , I'm not Bayern Munich.......................

[Backpack_thailand]

Yid Army, Yid Army, Yid Army!!!!!

Check out this page from GGTH

Glory Glory

Great story of an age gone by!

[chonabot]

Yid Army, Yid Army, Yid Army!!!!!

Check out this page from GGTH

Glory Glory

Great story of an age gone by!

Good stuff , Cheers!

[Backpack_thailand]

That's my grandfather, a truly wonderful man!

[chonabot]

That's my grandfather, a truly wonderful man!

Wow ! Respect to you sir ! ( And a few extra points nudge nudge ! )

[tom yum goong]

It could only have been a couple of Three Points Lane supporters who would rate Jenas.

And no i don't support Bayern either.

[chonabot]

It could only have been a couple of Three Points Lane supporters who would rate Jenas.

And no i don't support Bayern either.

Jenas will accomplish more than Hargreaves at an international level , and he already has more respect from the English supporters. We don't need a holding midfielder, a playmaker such as Carrick will eventually ensure that Hargreaves goes to the Carlton Palmer retirement home and remains in sausage land.

I have never heard another England supporter say that they are pleased that Hargreaves is in the squad. This is because he has not had a decent game for England.

His past achievements, in a frankly weak league, are irrelevant if he can't influence a game.

And he certainly cannot do that.

On this board, ask on a seperate thread if you will, I guarantee that Jenas is though more highly of than Hargreaves. And this is from Non-Spurs fans.

Edited June 19, 2006 by chonabot