School wants to change my contract

[WonnabeBiker]

They were desperate - and I kept my promise to come, although the following day a much higher offer came in.

12 months x Y Baht was the deal. No reimbursement of the first B-Visa (glad they were upfront about this).

Unexpectedly, I am now facing the situation that they want to reneg on the agreed terms. Starting with "no holiday pay" and ending the contract 6 weeks sooner.

The excuse is that some students in my special program haven't paid last year's and this year's tuition fees.

At a sub-30 k level with >20 lessons requiring a lesson plan for each and every one of them, I'm wondering whether it's time to hold, fold or to walk away.

Over the years, I have witnessed how some schools managed to give new teachers the sucker treatment. For example, Chinese teachers were promised a much higher salary but upon arrival, they all accepted rather than spending some 1x,000 Baht on the return flight back to China.

It's cynical but seems to e quite effective.

You guys, are you insisting on getting your signed contract before you travel to some school?

How do you avoid such issues?

[Eddy B]

Just tell them that you only came because of the original agreement. Students not paying last years tuition fees is not your fault but theirs and the students families. Stick to your guns and if they won't budge tell them politely to stick it up their arse!

[inzman]

Walk, plenty of jobs available.

[SlyAnimal]

If they want to change the terms of the contract, tell them that you'll leave.

They'll then stick to what they originally offered you, don't negotiate with them, only accept what was originally offered.

They won't like it, but if they make an offer, they should stick to it.

If you walk, then they don't have a Farang teacher for their English program, and then the parents will really complain (And may ask for some of their tuition fees back), the school knows this and will cave in to your request (Particularly as they know that they should stick to the original terms they offered you).

That's assuming of course that they did previously tell you that you'd be paid for the holidays etc, and that you didn't just assume that this would be the case.

Although in saying that, if you're required to teach 20h per week and submit lesson plans for less than 30k, and the school has already tried to change the contract details on you.... I'd say that it's probably not the type of school you want to be working at anyway. Most schools would pay you more, and require you to do less work.

[sirchai]

If they want to change the terms of the contract, tell them that you'll leave.

They'll then stick to what they originally offered you, don't negotiate with them, only accept what was originally offered.

They won't like it, but if they make an offer, they should stick to it.

If you walk, then they don't have a Farang teacher for their English program, and then the parents will really complain (And may ask for some of their tuition fees back), the school knows this and will cave in to your request (Particularly as they know that they should stick to the original terms they offered you).

That's assuming of course that they did previously tell you that you'd be paid for the holidays etc, and that you didn't just assume that this would be the case.

Although in saying that, if you're required to teach 20h per week and submit lesson plans for less than 30k, and the school has already tried to change the contract details on you.... I'd say that it's probably not the type of school you want to be working at anyway. Most schools would pay you more, and require you to do less work.

Sly is damn right about it. A contract is a contract and a written agreement. If they don't pay for holidays, (and the're plenty of them), then six weeks no pay, guess at the end of the school year, you'd make a big mistake by just continuing.

Next might be that they don't pay for Saturdays and Sundays, etc. Stop cancer when it starts to grow.

Had a similar "chat" with the head teacher at my former school and she said that 20% of the parents didn't pay the tuition fees, which should a sort of explain why they couldn't pay more money....and other bs.

Tell them to shovel up their contract up their somewhere.The parents of the other students wouldn't want to see the farang go, will make some big problems for the school and they'll finally pay, maybe even more and less contact hours.

Those parents who can afford it to send their kids to an EP are usually the richer guys with some connections. And that's what it's all about.

Now who's problem could that be? Unfortunately, not yours. If you're looking for a better paid job right now, making between 35 and 37, teaching computer and health for only about 12 hours/week at a primary EP setup, please page me.

The school's in the lower north-east.

Cheers-

Edited May 30, 2014 by sirchai

[jamhar]

First of all, you should be looking for another job. Start today.

Have your plan B ready, and who knows it may become your Plan A,

even if your school agrees to go back to the original contract.

If you agree to this mod of your contract, then you don't have a contract

they know they can mod your contract with impunity, and you will agree mostly likely.

which means

YOU are required to honor the contract, but they are not. Not a good situation

2 possible courses of action I would follow.

1) accept the new contract, and look for another job asap

2) dont accept the new contract and look for another job asap.

[cgphuket]

If you have a contract signed by both parties, you have some recourse with the ministry of labor, but it will take forever to sort out and the school will try to discredit you. Best to say either follow the contract or you walk, but only have this conversation after the have paid your most recent salary.

[lucifer666]

The first school that I ever worked at, tried this on me. I simply smiled, said goodbye and walked out. By the time I had walked to the school gates, the original contract had been signed.

I knew that they couldn't easily find another farang teacher and that the parents would be even less inclined to pay for English lessons without one..

[Colabamumbai]

Time to start looking. I have been thru a lot of B.S. with schools in 5 years, I will not go into detail. There is another school that wants you that will be better for you.

[Colabamumbai]

If you have a contract signed by both parties, you have some recourse with the ministry of labor, but it will take forever to sort out and the school will try to discredit you. Best to say either follow the contract or you walk, but only have this conversation after the have paid your most recent salary.

You are exactly correct, it took a year and the labour board made them pay 15,000 for apartment fees that was in the contract but never paid, and the school tries to discredit you as the wrongdoer.

[ggt]

Welcome to Thailand...contracts are fluid and flexible and subject to change at the whim of Thais...only valid for farangs...Thais do not necessarily keep their end of the bargain...let this be a lesson...contracts are best used as toilet paper...in many instances...

[Dap]

Qualified teachers in Thailand are now at a premium and

everyone is screaming for em'. Walk! There are plenty of

secure offers out there. Don't take any of their unethical

garbage!!

[KIWIBATCH]

There are stacks of teaching jobs currently available for a better rate of pay than you are currently being offered/were offered

Tell them to stick the job up their arse...and walk..........your action in walking out then becomes part of the school managements "learning curve"...something alot of these schools need to learn

[spambot]

Generally:

Try to establish and reflect a proactive approach, rather than just reacting on the items presented to you - Try to change the agenda from the one proposed. Example are shown below

Create Stages for Negotiation:

It is obviously an unworkable and unreasonable request they have made since next term all parents might pay up on time - so what happens to the contract then. You need to get them to see that they have made a mistake in their logic - Tell them without apology clearly that 'you are not the one who is responsible for their profits, but even if you were responsible then simply reducing your salary now does not take into account the profits available in the future'.

Next stage: if they are insistent that it really does comes down to your contract reflecting their profit - Ask them to formalize this in the contract in a different way and come back with a new proposal based upon profits for the future and not losses of the past.

Obviously the above is designed to make them work and think more clearly about what they are actually asking from you and also for you to maintain some control in the process - Since making demands is easy, but thinking like an adult in the process takes more effort - So they need to work harder at getting what they want

If discussion eventually breaks down on the above suggestions and you want to continue the dialogue then have something else up your sleeve to hit them with that you can included in the contract to use as a form of compensation - For example other changes in the contract alongside the ones that they have outlined, say a change in the duration of the contract to 2 years rather than 1 year or a bonus payment at the end of the contract. However I am not sure what you actually find valuable and this is just as an example to illustrate a point, You need to establish what are the variables that are valuable to you then negotiate them into the contract - In the same way they ask you to accept what is valuable to them. The bottom line is manage this in a way that becomes a process of negotiation rather than one of acceptance or leave.

Summary: Establish some logic to show that their request is unreasonable and is based upon irrational reasoning and they need to rethink how to solve their problem. If this does not work then start to think outside this box and find other areas of value that can be gained in a new contract so as to include these alongside the changes that will generate the loss and in effect redistribute one loss in the contract for a gain somewhere else.

[arminbkk]

I taught at sub 30K THB level in the past. Eventually did not see the point of it.

It's good if a person is young and just traveling and picking up experiences and all that, but for an older person

with family obligations (don't know if OP has, but I did), trying to build a future, it's no use.

Standing attention at 8am for some song, teaching an unruly over-sized class, envy from the Thai teacher that you get paid more than them

while they have to spend years climbing the salary scale, all that and more for less than 30K baht/month?

Some posters advise to just "move on, there are plenty of jobs out there".

Well if OP has a family, it is not that easy. And maybe OP wants to stay in or around that place/city.

Anyway, my advice would also be to look for something else. Why accept less than was agreed?

As others have said, it's not your problem some parents did not pay.

And if you leave there is no English teacher. That's a bigger problem for the school.

Also, you will see that you accept less now, and later you can do extra stuff such as summer school, or weekend learning activities,

without extra pay.

Good luck.

[Strangebrew]

Look as other have said here just smile and politely say no thank you get up and head out. You be in another job as soon as you call a school. If they say anything reply I'm a person of princapal if I agree to a contract I expect contract to be honored.

[spambot]

One other thing I forgot to mention:

Ask them to put their current proposal in writing - Tell then it is so you can get professional advice upon their proposal.

I am not clear if what they are requesting has any justification and so it is possible they might retract their position in fear of the results.

I am also not clear if there is a Gov Education or legal contract advisory (You could try the free ThaiVisa Legal option on this site) that can identify their right to do this. However you should find out your legal position in order to fully identify all options available to you.

Either way asking for formality in the process should identify exactly what whey want and why they want it and it also buys you some time from being pressured into giving a knee jerk reaction for an answer.

[Shaunduhpostman]

I would take such behavior by the school as a clear sign of more problems from them in the future. They are not being straight up with you and your signing with them anyway despite their back-pedaling reinforces and encourages them to continue.

I wouldn't try and push them to stick by their word either. They won't be happy that they didn't get their way and you likely won't be treated well as a result. They will also likely just get their money from you using other excuses. You'll get nickled and dimed half to death.

For example you won't see your tax refund, you were late arriving for the flag ceremony and must re-imburse them for the hour you missed. You'll get pay deducted from your paycheck for classroom materials, they'll claim you used too much paper at the photocopier and must pay for the paper and ink. You'll innocently join a pizza party with the other Thai teachers and they will order everything on the menu and you'll pay for it. They'll tell you you are being driven to immigration to sort something and when you arrive at immigration will be asked to pay the cab fare. Should you get ill those days will be deducted from your salary. I have been through it many times here as a teacher, it is routine and mainly because people tolerate it.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Shaunduhpostman

[joshstiles]

The very first thing I do when I school wants to interview me is review the contract. I won't even talk to a school if I can not see the contract first! Of course many schools don't like to do this.....hence....I don't go to too many interviews. But there are good schools around who understand what 'priorities should be'....keep looking. If you have to go to an interview....make sure you start by reviewing the contract....stick to your guns....contract first....if the director wants to speak with you first....just tell them 'after I review the contract'......seriously....think about it....if the contract terms are no good....why waste anymore time dill-whacking-around? Just move on.

[Maroon Watcher]

.... is the Educational year finally changing? (To Western dates)

Contract ends March
And I have been told "No pay for April" (2015)

I don't mind 4 weeks off any way.

But what happens after that?

[Maroon Watcher]

... is this like "Quality Tourists" -

"We can't get Quality Teachers" (Enough) because we treat them badly!!!!!

Get your contract leave them high n dry

Make sure your exit plan and Visa/permit is changed first

Sorry Thailand but I have heard many stories like this!

Vandalism breeds Vandalism

[Skuttlefish]

Keep your important things- passport and computer- close to you. Smile and politely tell them no. Fly home and do a degree in Education (not certificate, PGCSE or diploma) Suck it up and work nights at a 7 eleven or whatever. Do some relief/supply work and then do your time in the Middle East. Then join Search Associates and the world is you lobster son. It's a five year plan but I earn more than three times what you were offered with anual flights, freight and health insurance on top. If you take it up the arse now you are a. Taking it up the arse and b. making it so much harder for the next guy to get a fair deal. The fact that parents haven't paid is irrelevant- Imagine signing a contract to buy a house and then saying 'I haven't been paid for my stuff so I'm paying you less' No way. And don't bother with the Thai legal system; you will lose.

[attento]

How about charging a fee to change the Contract Terms ?

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

[phil2]

If you take it up the arse now you are a. Taking it up the arse and b. making it so much harder for the next guy to get a fair deal

the reason the school I've been at for ten years has turned into a nightmare

[otherstuff1957]

In the OP you refer to changing the contract terms. Did you sign a contract that they are now changing? Or did they make a job offer with one set of terms or then offer a different contract?

Do you have a Visa and a work permit with the school yet? Have they applied for a TCT waiver for you yet? If so, do you hold the work permit or do they?

If you have signed nothing and none of your paperwork has been processed, then just walk away. You will never be able to trust this school and you will save yourself endless trouble by leaving now.

If you have a type B Visa and a Work Permit already, the WP must be cancelled before you can get another one!

Good luck.

[lostinisaan]

Time to start looking. I have been thru a lot of B.S. with schools in 5 years, I will not go into detail. There is another school that wants you that will be better for you.

Until you find out what's wrong there. They're pretty good in making promises. None what they've promised me in May came true.

Contact hours in the contract were 20. Truth is around 30.

[ttthailand]

I would give a counter offer about the exact amount they dropped but in the other direction. When they act surprised tell them you are willing to negotiate and stop at the original offer.

That's what I would do .... But be ready to walk ....

Some companies and people like to take advantage and don't really care what people think of them.

[WonnabeBiker]

With the benefit of hindsight, I now believe that every step of the "dance" has been planned by the school. From the verbal job offer ("12 months' contract") to the excuses ("some parents haven't paid for the SME program"). You have heard of ?

Well, I signed the new contract, after some souls searching. But there is no such thing as enough for greedy people. They found a way to ask for a bribe and then forced me to abandon the job. A side effect has been that my last salary remains unpaid.

To sue a government school requires legal action ad an Administrative Court and payment of 2% of the amount claimed. And the writ will have to be in Thai.

They must be laughing all the way to the bank when they convince another foreigner to get on a bus without having the contract signed. ("You must do it here in person", they may claim). Sometimes, the "remuneration committee" won't agree to the amount promised in e-mails to some foreigner. I know Chinese teachers who have been given this particular sucker treatment...

[WonnabeBiker]

 

In the OP you refer to changing the contract terms. Did you sign a contract that they are now changing? Or did they make a job offer with one set of terms or then offer a different contract? ** THE LATTER. **

Do you have a Visa and a work permit with the school yet? Have they applied for a TCT waiver for you yet? If so, do you hold the work permit or do they? ** GOT THE WP AND FOR THAT NEEDED THE WAIVER. BUT THEN, THEY WOULDN'T PROVIDE THE DOCUMENTS NEEDED FOR IMMIGRATION. WHEN A VISA EXPIRES, THERE ISN'T MUCH ONE CAN DO.

If you have signed nothing and none of your paperwork has been processed, then just walk away. You will never be able to trust this school and you will save yourself endless trouble by leaving now. ** WISH I COULD GO BACK IN TIME AND DO AS YOU SUGGEST... **

If you have a type B Visa and a Work Permit already, the WP must be cancelled before you can get another one!

Good luck.

** THANKS. ** I USED CAPS TO MAKE THE COMMENTS STAND OUT. Don't want this to be seen as shouting.