Taxi "Mafia"

[pokerspiv]

I don't think there is an overabundance of taxis. People are just loathe to use them because they are so expensive.

Given your username 'pokerspiv', I reckon you are bluffing on that statement.

I've spent the best part of my adult life traveling the world and after a while I grew up an learned things from all sorts of people. One of the most basic things I learned is to always have a skill to sell if push comes to shove.

I'm not really sure what this means. And I'm not sure you know what the word "bluffing" means.

Edited June 18, 2014 by pokerspiv

[BigC]

500 baht is not a fair price.

A fair price is what would be charged in an open market free of extortion and death threats.

Death threats??

I haven't had a death threat from a taxi

Have you tried to start your own, competing taxi service?

Because if you did, you would.

No I wouldn't I don't have time

Specially thai visa members would suffer as I would have less time to post

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[BigC]

500 baht is not a fair price.

A fair price is what would be charged in an open market free of extortion and death threats.

Ultimately, there is an overabundance of taxis on the island caused by the issuing of too many licenses. Using the meter (required by law) would not bring in enough revenue to support the enterprise given that many drivers only get one or two fares a day. If the market were regulated (meter usage only), half or likely more the taxis would be gone and what remains would make a profit.

Asleep in the boot/ trunk of your taxi waiting for a fare is not generating any income, it is laziness and nothing else.

I don't think there is an overabundance of taxis. People are just loathe to use them because they are so expensive. My friends who live in Bangkok take taxis everywhere. No permanent residents use them here. Only tourists with no other options.

It's going to be interesting to see if apps like Uber are going to be able to break the monopoly in places like Phuket or Samui. Not sure if it is available here yet.

Base fare is 45 Baht and then it is 2.5 Baht per minute and 9.2 Baht per kilometer.

Based on those rates a car hired through Uber would charge around 180 baht for a Chaweng-Lamai trip.

Well it's a cleashaie but either take on the taxis or move to bangkok

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[samuijimmy]

I have been trying to stay out of this one.... but.... People are entitled to make a living.... even in Thailand.

First off BKK has several million people.... not all rides in BKK are low fares, try going to an area off the beaten track .... it is not always cheap .... True!

From my understanding of Taxi's on Samui, each driver pays 500 baht a day, or 15,000 +- month, for four years to pay for the Taxi.... plus the gasoline or LPG they need and maintenance of the vehicle .... on top of that they need to make enough income to pay for their families food and rent.... I really don't think many are living a life of luxury ....

[Tropicalevo]

From my understanding of Taxi's on Samui, each driver pays 500 baht a day, or 15,000 +- month, for four years to pay for the Taxi.... plus the gasoline or LPG they need and maintenance of the vehicle .... on top of that they need to make enough income to pay for their families food and rent.... I really don't think many are living a life of luxury ....

Living a life of luxury means different things to different people.

Most Thais that I know do not flaunt their wealth. They walk around in the same shirt and shorts that I have seen for ever. They just keep racking up the money in the bank - AND good luck to them. Well done. I have nothing but admiration for them. They put in the hours.

As a very rich American that I know once said 'you cannot have too much money'.

However - the few taxi drivers that I know, do rake in the cash. This is also due to the other jobs that they have. They tend to have a few of these. Waiting for the 'big hit' every day leaves plenty of time for other enterprises. Most are enterprises that are legal - but sadly, some are very illegal.

I do not know of any taxi driver with just one job. I do not know of a taxi driver who pays tax on his earnings.

Just because life is tough and easy money is hard to find does not mean that the law should be broken.

One can argue that taxi drivers break the law because life is difficult and it is hard to make money. Or - one can say that driving a taxi is easy because drivers can make money just by sitting outside a hotel or cruising slowly around the built up areas whilst keeping an eye on their other enterprises.

At the end of the day - they are all criminals. Their choice. Only the tourists suffer.

[notmyself]

I have been trying to stay out of this one.... but.... People are entitled to make a living.... even in Thailand.

First off BKK has several million people.... not all rides in BKK are low fares, try going to an area off the beaten track .... it is not always cheap .... True!

From my understanding of Taxi's on Samui, each driver pays 500 baht a day, or 15,000 +- month, for four years to pay for the Taxi.... plus the gasoline or LPG they need and maintenance of the vehicle .... on top of that they need to make enough income to pay for their families food and rent.... I really don't think many are living a life of luxury ....

Is it an oversupply of taxis or an undersupply of fares? Whichever way you look at it, there is not enough work available (the reason is unimportant) to make a living by legal means (using the meter). If someone is doing a job/ running a business etc. and the only way to turn a profit is with illegal means then I cannot bring myself to have any sympathy for them.

Maybe I could approach this from another angle. If someone on this forum (new member shall we say) said that they were thinking of going into business by opening a massage parlour, what would you say? I can imagine you would have some reservations about the venture. I supposed the real question is not actually what would you say but rather why you would come to the conclusion.

[notmyself]

I don't think there is an overabundance of taxis. People are just loathe to use them because they are so expensive.

Given your username 'pokerspiv', I reckon you are bluffing on that statement.

I've spent the best part of my adult life traveling the world and after a while I grew up an learned things from all sorts of people. One of the most basic things I learned is to always have a skill to sell if push comes to shove.

I'm not really sure what this means. And I'm not sure you know what the word "bluffing" means.

Sorry, not well worded. So you think that if all the taxis started to charge the lawful fare, the increase in revenue (as a whole) would be sufficient to enable the taxi fleet on the island to make a decent living?

[pokerspiv]

I suppose that depends what you mean by a "decent living". The average wage in Thailand is 400 baht per day. I think they could make that, even at Bangkok meter rates, yes.

A huge proportion of Samui residents completely avoid taxis because of the cost. If they charged more reasonable fares they would have a lot more business, even if they were making less per trip.

FWIW at current rates, Samui taxi drivers charge more than Samui dentists per hour. There are millions of Thais who would happily do the same job for less. But they don't want to get hacked to bits with a machete for undercutting the cartel.

The sooner the army gets here the better.

Edited June 18, 2014 by pokerspiv

[notmyself]

A huge proportion of Samui residents completely avoid taxis because of the cost. If they charged more reasonable fares they would have a lot more business, even if they were making less per trip.

Hmmm. Would most residents not have their own transport already? You do make a valid point in that the money generated by way of residents would increase but I don't see that it would be worth enough to make up for halving the cost of taxi travel. I would think that the tourism sector generates the vast majority of the revenue as a whole. There would be an increase in usage if the price were halved but how much? I think it would only be a small increase though I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

I dunno Spiv, maybe I am just being blinded by pragmatism? A fellow member said earlier that the true cost when using a meter of a journey between Lamai and Chaweng is 180 Baht but let's just say it should be 250 Baht. At present the cost is 500 Baht so in order to keep things the same (revenue generated), there would have to be a doubling in the number of trips. [edit] With the true cost at 180 ish and addition fuel usage the number of trips would have to triple IMO.

Edited June 18, 2014 by notmyself

[pokerspiv]

Even tourist guidebooks and trip reports on the internet etc advise against using taxis in Samui and Phuket because of the outrageous prices. In Bangkok they are recommended to tourists as a cheap and safe way to travel the city. There is no doubt at all that reducing prices would lead to increased business. Tourists actively avoid taxi touts now. As in, they briskly walk away from them in fear when approached. There's a very good reason for that. They are criminals.

The 180 baht figure was posted by me, as an approximation of what a limousine hired by Uber would charge (which is more expensive than the rate charged by Bangkok taxis). The metred rate in a Bangkok taxi between Chaweng and Lamai would be around 100 baht, about 1/5th what they charge now. And that's enough for taxi drivers to make a living on in Bangkok. Remember the average wage in Thailand is 400 baht per day.

Nobody should be expecting to make 400 baht profit on a single fare. Furthermore, as I have said many times, there are millions of Thais who would happily work as taxi drivers with fairer rates if they could. But if they tried to do that here, the taxi mafia would kill them. How you can not see that as a serious problem is beyond me.

Edited June 19, 2014 by pokerspiv

[samuijimmy]

criminals? .... what a load of rubbish.... it's people trying to make a better living for them selves

Often times too people can negotiate a price and those who live here can usually get a better deal by getting the phone number of a local taxi ....

There are Songtaus for those who want them.... people do have choices as to how they get from A to B. From Ferries there are multi-passanger mini buses some times free with ferry (pre-booked) sometimes 100 or 200 baht and take people to where they want to go anywhere on the island!

I am leaving this one it's just silly!

[pokerspiv]

criminals? .... what a load of rubbish.... it's people trying to make a better living for them selves

Trying to make a better living for themselves by involving themselves in criminal behaviour and violence.

I am leaving this one it's just silly!

You have a funny way of "leaving it".

Edited June 19, 2014 by pokerspiv

[limbos]

Taxis at Suvarnabhumi are now being targeted and are being called 'taxi mafia'. Not sure if this link is allowed.

[Virt]

Even at fixed prices the Bangkok cabbies are a lot cheaper than the fixed Samui prices.

Here is a photo from last summer when we grabbed a taxi from bangkok airport.

Seems like they charge an average of about10 Baht pr kilometer.

So if that was done on Samui a trip from Chaweng to Nathon would cost something like 200 Baht or so.

If that was the price i would be more than happy to ride a lot more taxi on Samui and tip the driver a fair amount on top of that.

[Rooo]

Taxis at Suvarnabhumi are now being targeted and are being called 'taxi mafia'. Not sure if this link is allowed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/735567-taxi-mafia-clean-out-at-suvarnabhumi-airport/

[notmyself]

Nobody should be expecting to make 400 baht profit on a single fare. Furthermore, as I have said many times, there are millions of Thais who would happily work as taxi drivers with fairer rates if they could. But if they tried to do that here, the taxi mafia would kill them. How you can not see that as a serious problem is beyond me.

It certainly is a serious issue.

What would the percentage increase be by way of resident fares if the price were lower by two thirds? I generally use a taxi 4 or 5 times a year and this would need to rise to 12 - 15 which is not going to happen. How many journeys are NOT made by tourists because of the present prices? In both sectors there would no doubt be an increase but what would be needed is an explosion. What would be the total number of fares (average) per day I wonder. If it is 5000 then it would need to go up to 15000 and that is not going to happen. One hugely positive effect of meter usage enforcement would be a lowering of the number of taxis.

[pokerspiv]

Luckily nobody needs to make that decision. People thinking they can make such a decision is what creates these problems in the first place.

I am sure someone somewhere has studied the price elasticity of taxi rides, but whether that data applies to all markets is unknown. The people who probably have the best idea are Uber. But you don't need to know - just get rid of the criminal element and let the invisible hand do it's job. The number of taxis will reach an equilibrium point where most people are still making money, just like any other business in the world.

But just for argument's sake, here's a study undertaken in China.

The net result of a 12.5% price increase (from 1.6RMB/km to 2.0RMB/km) was a net drop in total earning of about RMB500, i.e. 25%.

Which suggests that the elasticity of demand for taxi rides is quite elastic. i.e. by reducing prices, they would actually make more money because of increased business, even though they were charging less per trip.

Letting taxi drivers set their own fares is the best way to work out what the ideal price of a taxi is. However, it doesn't work very well if the cartel takes a machete to anyone who experiments with lower pricing.

Edited June 19, 2014 by pokerspiv

[notmyself]

Which suggests that the elasticity of demand for taxi rides is quite elastic. i.e. by reducing prices, they would actually make more money because of increased business, even though they were charging less per trip.

Elastic but not finite. In order to maintain the same number of taxis, the number of trips would have to go up by around 200% and that is not taking into consideration fuel costs. 1x500 Baht trim from Lamai to Chaweng uses 1 litre of fuel (a guess). 5x100 Baht trips would require 5 litres of fuel.

Letting taxi drivers set their own fares is the best way to work out what the ideal price of a taxi is. However, it doesn't work very well if the cartel takes a machete to anyone who experiments with lower pricing.

Yep though I'd rather see the meter being used. Would love to see a decent reduction in taxis taking up all the parking places on Lamai beach road.

[pokerspiv]

Elastic but not finite. In order to maintain the same number of taxis, the number of trips would have to go up by around 200% and that is not taking into consideration fuel costs. 1x500 Baht trim from Lamai to Chaweng uses 1 litre of fuel (a guess). 5x100 Baht trips would require 5 litres of fuel.

LPG is only 15 baht a litre, even on Samui. Taxis in Bangkok run on CNG which is even cheaper, so I would expect the prices here to remain higher than Bangkok. But not 5-6 times the price of Bangkok, which is about what it is now.

Edited June 19, 2014 by pokerspiv

[notmyself]

Elastic but not finite. In order to maintain the same number of taxis, the number of trips would have to go up by around 200% and that is not taking into consideration fuel costs. 1x500 Baht trim from Lamai to Chaweng uses 1 litre of fuel (a guess). 5x100 Baht trips would require 5 litres of fuel.

LPG is only 15 baht a litre, even on Samui. Taxis in Bangkok run on CNG which is even cheaper, so I would expect the prices here to remain higher than Bangkok. But not 5-6 times the price of Bangkok, which is about what it is now.

Aye, the 1 litre to 5 litre was for illustrative purposes really, there will obviously be an increase but the actual value would not be great.

Do all metered taxis use the same price structure or are some areas higher/ lower?

I'm just not convinced in the slightest that the increase in revenue generated by going to meters would be anywhere near enough to support the existing number of taxis. I think we both agree that the ONLY solution is to get rid of the cartels to make it a free market. I don't see this happening in a voluntary manner and since the infrastructure (registered taxis service) the most obvious way is to enforce using the meter. Given what I believe regarding the lack of increase in fares, lots of taxi drivers are going to go under which will result in an equilibrium.

[pokerspiv]

LPG is only 15 baht a litre, even on Samui. Taxis in Bangkok run on CNG which is even cheaper, so I would expect the prices here to remain higher than Bangkok. But not 5-6 times the price of Bangkok, which is about what it is now.

Aye, the 1 litre to 5 litre was for illustrative purposes really, there will obviously be an increase but the actual value would not be great.

Do all metered taxis use the same price structure or are some areas higher/ lower?

I'm just not convinced in the slightest that the increase in revenue generated by going to meters would be anywhere near enough to support the existing number of taxis.

Well, I just quoted a study that shows exactly that. There's nothing more I can do to convince you at this point. You have your own opinion based on nothing but a guess. I have posted figures from actual real-world examples that shows that increasing prices leads to a drop in total revenue. If you aren't at all swayed by that then there's no point continuing the discussion.

Edited June 20, 2014 by pokerspiv

[BigC]

criminals? .... what a load of rubbish.... it's people trying to make a better living for them selves

Trying to make a better living for themselves by involving themselves in criminal behaviour and violence.

I am leaving this one it's just silly!

You have a funny way of "leaving it".

Hold on only a few cases of violence and those reasonable have been arrested

You cannot take a couple of incidents and make it seem like taxis use violence on a daily bases

I have had government people call me to follow up complaints on taxis doing wrong to Thais and forangs

If a taxi driver threatens you then take there number. Tell your story on here then PM me the number.

I know allot of people that monitor the taxi situation and when they see a complaint I get a call

Also the TATS also accept complaints as their job is to make samui forang friendly to bring in more visitors to boost business

Complaints about taxis are actually taken more seriously that you might know

TATS is located in samui town center

Now they looking for forang police volenteers ( not tourist police )

Specially from Russia England and possibly Korean and Chinese to help clear situations and disputes

I shall not be one of these people but I have been asked to help recruit

I shall not accept people if they have a bully style attitude and want to become a policeman to use it a tool intimidate people.

Looking for people who have been on the island for a long time and understand the thai way and can communicate between the 2 different cultures

For real they want people that can calm a situation down so no one has to get arrested in other words try to clear confrontations that mainly arise from mis understandings

People that work with samui rescue are welcome and people that have spent allot of time working with government people

For details please PM me or go straight to TATS in samui town center

Speak to thai man named Vin

Speaks perfect english

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[notmyself]

LPG is only 15 baht a litre, even on Samui. Taxis in Bangkok run on CNG which is even cheaper, so I would expect the prices here to remain higher than Bangkok. But not 5-6 times the price of Bangkok, which is about what it is now.

Aye, the 1 litre to 5 litre was for illustrative purposes really, there will obviously be an increase but the actual value would not be great.

Do all metered taxis use the same price structure or are some areas higher/ lower?

I'm just not convinced in the slightest that the increase in revenue generated by going to meters would be anywhere near enough to support the existing number of taxis.

Well, I just quoted a study that shows exactly that. There's nothing more I can do to convince you at this point. You have your own opinion based on nothing but a guess. I have posted figures from actual real-world examples that shows that increasing prices leads to a drop in total revenue. If you aren't at all swayed by that then there's no point continuing the discussion.

From the study...

The short trips should not be affected much by a price hike, since we are talking about only 1-5RMB more. It is the long trips that are affected most, since it usually means 5-15RMB more for the passengers. So even though the number of trips/shift may only decrease by one or two, the lsot businesses are also the most profitable trips. (As mentioned in the report, the price elasticity impact is strongest in the sprawling city of Beijing, since most trips are fairly long)

What would be a long trip on Samui? Airport to Lipa Noi perhaps?

There was in fact quite a large reduction on Samui some 18-24 months back. Minimum fare was reduced to 300 Baht, from 500 and a trip to the airport from Lamai was reduced to 500, from 700. The reduction by 40% for local trips had virtually no effect on number of fares which in in line with the study.

Why I asked if the regulated prices were the same the nation over. Samui is effectively a closed system (being a small island) and I fell there would be justification a little above the national rate because the island's taxi drivers are cut off from any possibility of getting long trips, which is where the money is made.

In the end, I think the only aspect we disagree on is the potential increase in the number of fares if the meter is enforced. The reduction in price could (it is possible) result in a 200% increase of fares but it would need some additional help getting there such as enforcing that all tourists have a motorbike driving licence and that motorbikes are fully insured.

[monkeycountry]

Does anyone know why the taxis on Samui honk their horn constantly every time they spot a tourist? - especially in Chaweng. I have yet to see a tourist actually decide to take a taxi because a taxi passed by him/her and honked. Usually tourists will take a taxi if they need one, if not, then no amount of honking is going to change their mind. There is an endless flow of taxis in Chaweng, so the tourists are aware they can get one anytime they want to.

Assuming the drivers do not get an increased amount of customers from honking, why do they keep doing it? I do not see taxis do this elsewhere in Thailand, Samui is the only place I know of.

My best guess is one of the drivers "invented" it long ago, and everyone else just copied it, without giving a second thought to it's effectiveness.

I ask as many people seem to be annoyed by the constant honking from the many taxis.

[notmyself]

Does anyone know why the taxis on Samui honk their horn constantly every time they spot a tourist? - especially in Chaweng. I have yet to see a tourist actually decide to take a taxi because a taxi passed by him/her and honked. Usually tourists will take a taxi if they need one, if not, then no amount of honking is going to change their mind. There is an endless flow of taxis in Chaweng, so the tourists are aware they can get one anytime they want to.

Assuming the drivers do not get an increased amount of customers from honking, why do they keep doing it? I do not see taxis do this elsewhere in Thailand, Samui is the only place I know of.

My best guess is one of the drivers "invented" it long ago, and everyone else just copied it, without giving a second thought to it's effectiveness.

I ask as many people seem to be annoyed by the constant honking from the many taxis.

It's just a variant of cold calling.

Cold calling is the sales process of approaching prospective customers or clientstypically via telephone, by email or through making a connection on a social networkwho were not expecting such an interaction. The word "cold" is used because the person receiving the call is not expecting a call or has not specifically asked to be contacted by a sales person. A cold call is usually the start of a sales process generally known as telemarketing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_calling

In this case it is likely due to desperation.

[monkeycountry]

I have been trying to stay out of this one.... but.... People are entitled to make a living.... even in Thailand.

First off BKK has several million people.... not all rides in BKK are low fares, try going to an area off the beaten track .... it is not always cheap .... True!

From my understanding of Taxi's on Samui, each driver pays 500 baht a day, or 15,000 +- month, for four years to pay for the Taxi.... plus the gasoline or LPG they need and maintenance of the vehicle .... on top of that they need to make enough income to pay for their families food and rent.... I really don't think many are living a life of luxury ....

"People are entitled to make a living...."

That is what pretty much every small time criminal says in Thailand. "Yes sure, I robbed that guy, and scammed that woman, but I have the right to make a living!!!"

When your right to make a living conflicts with the law, then you no longer have that right .... even in Thailand.

[monkeycountry]

Does anyone know why the taxis on Samui honk their horn constantly every time they spot a tourist? - especially in Chaweng. I have yet to see a tourist actually decide to take a taxi because a taxi passed by him/her and honked. Usually tourists will take a taxi if they need one, if not, then no amount of honking is going to change their mind. There is an endless flow of taxis in Chaweng, so the tourists are aware they can get one anytime they want to.

Assuming the drivers do not get an increased amount of customers from honking, why do they keep doing it? I do not see taxis do this elsewhere in Thailand, Samui is the only place I know of.

My best guess is one of the drivers "invented" it long ago, and everyone else just copied it, without giving a second thought to it's effectiveness.

I ask as many people seem to be annoyed by the constant honking from the many taxis.

It's just a variant of cold calling.

Cold calling is the sales process of approaching prospective customers or clientstypically via telephone, by email or through making a connection on a social networkwho were not expecting such an interaction. The word "cold" is used because the person receiving the call is not expecting a call or has not specifically asked to be contacted by a sales person. A cold call is usually the start of a sales process generally known as telemarketing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_calling

In this case it is likely due to desperation.

A cold call comparison would be if the local taxi call center had my mobile number and called me every 10 minutes to ask if I needed a taxi right now? I think the call center is smart enough to know, that not only would they not be able to sell anything that way, they would likely also annoy me to an extent that I would avoid using their service when I actually needed a taxi.

[Virt]

Does anyone know why the taxis on Samui honk their horn constantly every time they spot a tourist? - especially in Chaweng. I have yet to see a tourist actually decide to take a taxi because a taxi passed by him/her and honked. Usually tourists will take a taxi if they need one, if not, then no amount of honking is going to change their mind. There is an endless flow of taxis in Chaweng, so the tourists are aware they can get one anytime they want to.

Assuming the drivers do not get an increased amount of customers from honking, why do they keep doing it? I do not see taxis do this elsewhere in Thailand, Samui is the only place I know of.

My best guess is one of the drivers "invented" it long ago, and everyone else just copied it, without giving a second thought to it's effectiveness.

I ask as many people seem to be annoyed by the constant honking from the many taxis.

I thought the drivers honked when passing road shrines or places with a lot of accidents to pay respect for the deceased souls.

Atleast that's what the Thai waitor at our hotel told us the day we hired him to take a tour across the island, and i asked him why he honked the horn from time to time.

Maybe that's what started it and the taxi drivers just took it a bit further?

[notmyself]

A cold call comparison would be if the local taxi call center had my mobile number and called me every 10 minutes to ask if I needed a taxi right now? I think the call center is smart enough to know, that not only would they not be able to sell anything that way, they would likely also annoy me to an extent that I would avoid using their service when I actually needed a taxi.

I am only pointing out what is being done and not whether it is being done in an effective manner. Beeping the horn costs nothing so if the driver gets one fare a month it works. The downside is that people may well be reluctant to take a taxi who is using such abrasive advertising but this concept is lost for the most part.

[limbos]

Noise pollution is rampant around of Thailand and nobody will bat an eyelid. Think about the longtail boat going up and down Chaweng beach announcing the Muay Thai fights or all the extremely loud music cars going around advertising late night club events, just to name a few. A honking taxi probably plays around in the junior leagues from a Thai pov.