Is it worth setting up a thai company prior to marriage?

[ghworker2010]

I read with interest a comment on another thread:

''There are ways around this to cover yourself from being scammed by the Thai lady, my father first came to Thailand over 30yrs ago, married a Thai/Chinese lady, had a son & daughter with her, before they married he created a company which he owned 49% (the max a farang is allowed), the other 51% was divided between SEVEN different Thai's (most didn't even know they own a share in this company), then he bought the land for which he based his company & family home. You need to make sure the wife does NOT now these other share holders, so they can not group together to 'oast' you out of the company, as long as she can not get more shares than you she can not take the land/property away from you, all this NEEDS to be done BEFORE you marry her though, hope I have been of some help here''

Can any other members corroborate the above comment or not?

How much does it cost to set this up. If I was not technically running the company year by year according to the company legislation would this be illegal?

cheers

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It's rubbish, ancient history.

Can't do it now, shouldn't have done it then.

Today, most land offices will refuse outright to register a property in a company mane if any of the shareholders appear to be foreigners.

Buy your condo and car now, saves arguments when you get divorced.

Edited June 5, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Beetlejuice]

To the OP:

It is possible to register a company in Thailand, cost about 3000 baht and up to about 8 or 9 years ago this was not a problem. Farangs could just start a company, use the appropriate Thais as their pretend share holders in the company and the farang could own land, property or whatever virtually with no questions asked.

Then some management potential in a land office suddenly realised that the wool was being pulled over their eyes and soon afterwards new measures were enforced that all farangs registering companies must be actually trading and prove they were taking in certain incomes each year plus the so-called Thai share holders had to prove that they have active investments and playing major roles with the trading of the company. So this option is no longer a loophole or a back door way for farangs to buy and own land and real estate in Thailand.

Under Thai law it states that in most cases (there are exceptions) any land purchased in Thailand regarding a farang married to a Thai spouse, must be the Thai wife`s money. So if you are a law abiding person and will acquire a plot of land as imposed by Thai law and it is actually your wife`s money, than you should have no worries.

If you do have concerns regarding the honesty, trustworthiness and loyalty of your wife, because you intend to contravene the law, than your options are to rent, buy a condo or risk throwing money into something that you can never own and could lose in many ways.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[Gringogazzer]

If you feel the need to be devious, you are with the wrong woman to start with.

Follow the advice in post #2, more appropriate.

There is nothing devious thinking about worse case scenario and making sure you can't be strung out to dry or in a position to be dictated to.

Too many people walk into their biggest commitments in Thailand with just their hearts and balls, with their brain in the clouds.

I've heard countless miserable stories. I've only been on TV for a week & there's some1 wanting advise on messy break up after 2 years & from what I read kiss goodbye to his recent investment because of no thought of, "what if".

I don't know about LTD's with farang shareholders being flatly refused land registry now but think your right going in with your head and your heart. Maybe you won't another 1 at the end of the bar with jai dam if it doesn't work the way you want.

[CharlieH]

If you feel the need to be devious, you are with the wrong woman to start with.

Follow the advice in post #2, more appropriate.

There is nothing devious thinking about worse case scenario and making sure you can't be strung out to dry or in a position to be dictated to.

Too many people walk into their biggest commitments in Thailand with just their hearts and balls, with their brain in the clouds.

I've heard countless miserable stories. I've only been on TV for a week & there's some1 wanting advise on messy break up after 2 years & from what I read kiss goodbye to his recent investment because of no thought of, "what if".

I don't know about LTD's with farang shareholders being flatly refused land registry now but think your right going in with your head and your heart. Maybe you won't another 1 at the end of the bar with jai dam if it doesn't work the way you want.

My post was referring to "You need to make sure the wife does NOT now" which IS devious.

There is nothing wrong with taking precautions, but be open and honest about it, she will understand your position and probably help you achieve it. Userfruct is a common answer.

[yankee99]

It's rubbish, ancient history.

Can't do it now, shouldn't have done it then.

Today, most land offices will refuse outright to register a property in a company mane if any of the shareholders appear to be foreigners.

Buy your condo and car now, saves arguments when you get divorced.

The land offices in bkk, pattaya and phuket will easily let you put your house land in a company name.

[yankee99]

Its about 20,000 baht then 12,000 per year to setup and maintain a house in a company name. Its a good idea to protect what you've worked for!

[Gringogazzer]

If you feel the need to be devious, you are with the wrong woman to start with.

Follow the advice in post #2, more appropriate.

There is nothing devious thinking about worse case scenario and making sure you can't be strung out to dry or in a position to be dictated to.

Too many people walk into their biggest commitments in Thailand with just their hearts and balls, with their brain in the clouds.

I've heard countless miserable stories. I've only been on TV for a week & there's some1 wanting advise on messy break up after 2 years & from what I read kiss goodbye to his recent investment because of no thought of, "what if".

I don't know about LTD's with farang shareholders being flatly refused land registry now but think your right going in with your head and your heart. Maybe you won't another 1 at the end of the bar with jai dam if it doesn't work the way you want.

My post was referring to "You need to make sure the wife does NOT now" which IS devious.

There is nothing wrong with taking precautions, but be open and honest about it, she will understand your position and probably help you achieve it. Userfruct is a common answer.

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

[snottgoblin]

OP, you might be better off having a rental.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

Good answer!

Home loan in her name for 30 years is so much safer.

Then she really needs you alive to keep paying the loan, if she gives you trouble, you can just walk away.

And if she dies, you get the home for nothing (they make her have compulsory life insurance)

[yankee99]

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

Good answer!

Home loan in her name for 30 years is so much safer.

Then she really needs you alive to keep paying the loan, if she gives you trouble, you can just walk away.

And if she dies, you get the home for nothing (they make her have compulsory life insurance)

Walk away? If you buy a modest house lets say 6m baht put 30% down 1.8 m and make 1m in payments thats something to walk away from? I wouldnt protect my money that way!

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

Good answer!

Home loan in her name for 30 years is so much safer.

Then she really needs you alive to keep paying the loan, if she gives you trouble, you can just walk away.

And if she dies, you get the home for nothing (they make her have compulsory life insurance)

Walk away? If you buy a modest house lets say 6m baht put 30% down 1.8 m and make 1m in payments thats something to walk away from? I wouldnt protect my money that way!

+

I put 10% down, my house was under 2M, with the life insurance and costs, 300k in cash.

(purchased new last year)

[mesquite]

OP, if you are considering getting married, I would recommend just not doing it. But if you do, please download the above posts and read them every day so those words are etched into your mind.

Any woman will change after marriage/engagement. When and how much is not known. Mine changed rather quickly from a princess to the beast from hell.

First warning sign: "We" buy house. I told her to talk to some banks and we could discuss the terms as I would make mortgage payments. Never heard a word about that again, which was warning sign number two. No big deal I thought at the time because I just wanted to rent anyway.

As AOA says above, I would buy your condo and car now. Further, I would not get her opinion on either, lest she think they are hers and argue (by argue I mean throw daily tantrums until you give in) that they should be in her name. I would not even tell her, just show up one day in your new car, or at the appropriate time show her your condo. The less said the better.

Oh, and unless you absolutely need a truck, do not buy one. Every one of her relatives will want to borrow it and then drive it Thai style. Also do not let her drive your car to the village, as she will loan it to the relatives and she and they will drive the sh*t out of it.

The happiest farangs I know here in Thailand live in rented rooms with or without a Thai wife, and have little money or pretend to have little money.

Edited June 6, 2014 by mesquite

[Mario2008]

Setting up a fake company just to own a house is of course not allowed. It could lead to you losing your house if they ever crack-down on these fake companies. You do take a risk.

A pre-nup is a much safe way to protect your assets.

[Mario2008]

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

Good answer!

Home loan in her name for 30 years is so much safer.

Then she really needs you alive to keep paying the loan, if she gives you trouble, you can just walk away.

And if she dies, you get the home for nothing (they make her have compulsory life insurance)

With a 30 year loan you are bound to pay a lot of intrest. You might pay more in extra intrest than you would lose if the worst came to worst.

[BlackJack]

It's rubbish, ancient history.

Can't do it now, shouldn't have done it then.

Today, most land offices will refuse outright to register a property in a company mane if any of the shareholders appear to be foreigners.

Buy your condo and car now, saves arguments when you get divorced.

The company is set up with all Thais

then 10 days later shares are transferred back

[belg]

the thai/chinese elite in this country does not want competition from the farang here, so they do not even allow you to buy 1 rai in your name

how hard would that be to put that in a law? that farang could buy 1 rai MAX in thailand ? and build his house with his money ?

so as long as this law is in place, and it will never change or there should be some drastic changes in this country, no one cent of mine will go into land / house or company

lucky for me, my wife is not a poor but if she was, it would be moving back to my home country and my home country rules... but they also like to screw you over good overthere and you can still ending up losing 50% of more of your assets

but at least i could work when/where i want, would not have to do 90 days reports, no annual begging, no showing of money, being free to buy a car at a descent and not inflated price, etc...

yeah yeah, i can move back any time if i dont like it here, but i have kids in school...

[VINCENT2012]

to me .. do not make any company where others are the owner.. .,if you can not trust your wife 100% to run and control a business on her name.... forget it because you can loose all your investment for many reasons.

Also many foreigners would like to invest in thailand ....but they do not because of their laws and the continued politic instability, ....what is the point to pay for every thing but to be out of the story....?????

until they do not change the rules . ...no way....not with my money!

thats what i would recommend.

[dotpoom]

It's rubbish, ancient history.

Can't do it now, shouldn't have done it then.

Today, most land offices will refuse outright to register a property in a company mane if any of the shareholders appear to be foreigners.

Buy your condo and car now, saves arguments when you get divorced.

Things must be changing. My neighbor opened his company about 12 months ago for the purpose of buying his house.

[Berkshire]

Even if you were to own your house through a bogus company--which I would not recommend--you could still lose it all. There have been stories on these very forums where guys have tried to protect themselves, even to the extreme, and still got fleeced. Basically, if the woman really wanted to take advantage of you, she can and will. So it's best to ensure that you're marrying the right woman (easier said than done). These little financial maneuverings will simply pose a challenge, but nothing that a smart, devious person can't overcome.

[farang000999]

Why is owning a home so important to farang... I don't know any single farang who desperately want to own a home... It is always the married farang who desperately want to own a home...

So let's do some math:

single farang = dont care about owning home

farang + thai wife = home ownership very important

therefore,

thai wife = home ownership very important

and now here comes all the topics about:

"How can I protect my investment in buying a home from my wife?"... And the "Ok, I will the buy the house but it has to be in the baby's name" and the "You own the land, I will own the house and it is leased to me until I die" nonsense.

If you don't trust her:

1. Why get married?

2. Why buy a home?

And btw I thought you looked like Bruce Willis and are a very sharp dresser and well respected by Thai people... what could go wrong?

[monkeycountry]

It's rubbish, ancient history.

Can't do it now, shouldn't have done it then.

Today, most land offices will refuse outright to register a property in a company mane if any of the shareholders appear to be foreigners.

Buy your condo and car now, saves arguments when you get divorced.

The company is set up with all Thais

then 10 days later shares are transferred back

While this is indeed possible, there is nothing preventing the Thais from not transferring the shares back and just keeping the company and thereby the house.

[mrfaroukh]

Listen good. What different would that make if you create a company and then buy the house in the name of the company? In the end if you have to sell the house almost no one would buy it from you or if they buy you must sell it at a very low price. Also don't forget that even then you have to pay half of it to your wife.

If you think she really love you tell her you are going to buy a condo in the city before you get married so she is not entitled to anything if you are divorced. Then see the reaction and decide.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It's rubbish, ancient history.

Can't do it now, shouldn't have done it then.

Today, most land offices will refuse outright to register a property in a company mane if any of the shareholders appear to be foreigners.

Buy your condo and car now, saves arguments when you get divorced.

The company is set up with all Thais

then 10 days later shares are transferred back

+

You hope!

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

Good answer!

Home loan in her name for 30 years is so much safer.

Then she really needs you alive to keep paying the loan, if she gives you trouble, you can just walk away.

And if she dies, you get the home for nothing (they make her have compulsory life insurance)

With a 30 year loan you are bound to pay a lot of intrest. You might pay more in extra intrest than you would lose if the worst came to worst.

Interest in first year 2%, other years 7%.

I bought my house with a loan because I didn't like the exchange rate last year, I've already saved 150k on exchange rate alone.

[marko kok prong]

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

Good answer!

Home loan in her name for 30 years is so much safer.

Then she really needs you alive to keep paying the loan, if she gives you trouble, you can just walk away.

And if she dies, you get the home for nothing (they make her have compulsory life insurance)

Walk away? If you buy a modest house lets say 6m baht put 30% down 1.8 m and make 1m in payments thats something to walk away from? I wouldnt protect my money that way!

Yankee 99,i think you would get more than a modest house for 6 million baht,though i guess it depends where you live.

[CharlesHH]

There are so many reasons NOT to do what you suggest that I lost count.

Thai have gotten smart to foreigners, those not politically fixed, trying to own land or companies without actually doing biz and paying taxes and having a work permit.

I just got out of a Thai company owned by my wife, two Thai family, and 49% me whose sole biz was owning and running one house, mine. I just lease it now with a lease paper, because it was costing me a lot just to do the annual biz reporting and accounting and my dying soon makes it clear who owns the house, not me, making passing it on, as I wish to do, easier. My co. was 7 yrs old so word is today that deal is MUCH more difficult to draw up. I am guessing that is your idea, a house.

I always wondered that, as a major shareholder and CEO of that co., should I have had a work permit to do that?

If you want a real ongoing biz, definitely start it now and get your minimum Thai employees and your own work permit and visa to match.

Have a good international law firm like Tilkie and Gibbons tell you the laws about property owned prior to marriage still having to be split 50 50 in case of divorce. Also, the law here about pre nup papers, too? NEVER trust a Thai citizen who is also a lawyer, no kidding, ... professionalism is missing here.

Unless you have a REAL biz in mind, just buy a nice condo, own it, and forget about land/house.

[cbluck58]

Muppet - if you don't trust her then for Christ's sake don't marry her..

[Gringogazzer]

I agree with what your saying about open & honesty & see where your coming from now with if your thinking she's out to get me, it's the wrong woman.

But love & hate is a very very fine line. Any woman that has truly loved me and I think there's only been 2 in my short life, that didn't work out, would of killed me if they were sure to get away with it.

Therefore I would make sure the Wife didn't know the ghost shareholders as in the same light, never make yourself worth more dead than alive because in Thailand can be an easy option.

Not that I think she would rob or kill me, but haven't mastered this taro card thing yet & I've plenty of years left.

Good answer!

Home loan in her name for 30 years is so much safer.

Then she really needs you alive to keep paying the loan, if she gives you trouble, you can just walk away.

And if she dies, you get the home for nothing (they make her have compulsory life insurance)

Nice, I like the way you have pushed the boundary of the envelope on the way I think.

I only ever thought as far to even out the balance of power on our assets & never went as far as making a profit on them if she were to get electricuted while making toast in the bath.

You can't take away the margins & bottom dollar from you Americans.

[khunPer]

''There are ways around this to cover yourself from being scammed by the Thai lady, my father first came to Thailand over 30yrs ago, married a Thai/Chinese lady, had a son & daughter with her, before they married he created a company which he owned 49% (the max a farang is allowed), the other 51% was divided between SEVEN different Thai's (most didn't even know they own a share in this company), then he bought the land for which he based his company & family home. You need to make sure the wife does NOT now these other share holders, so they can not group together to 'oast' you out of the company, as long as she can not get more shares than you she can not take the land/property away from you, all this NEEDS to be done BEFORE you marry her though, hope I have been of some help here''

Can any other members corroborate the above comment or not?

That has changed, today you only need 3 shareholders in a limited company and they cannot anymore be ghost-shareholders, for example employees at a lawyers office, but have to “real” shareholders who can proof they have funds for investing in the shares.

Everyone can tap the list of shareholders asking for a print of present company registration, so that does not provide any security for a future ex not to contact the Thai shareholders.

The way it’s done today – or at least a few years ago – is to set up a company, where you own 49% (preferable 39% when buying land), your future wife 49% and some other Thai, not family or related to future wife, 2% – the latter must be an amount that is affordable to proof funds for and the shareholder someone Thai you trust. Make the shares in 2 groups, one preferred shares with 10 votes for each, which you are holding, and the normal shares with 1 vote each; the preferred shares can be a minor number just enough to grant you vote majority. Shareholder capital is best if 2 million bath, which do not need to be paid in full. The Thai shareholders need to sign 2 proxies, one giving you vote rights, and 1 “blanco” for selling/transferring their shares.

Do check with a Thai law firm about how to make it “the right way” at present as things may change a little all the time; any lawyer experienced in dealing with foreigners will know.

If you are having/planning child/children who will be carrying a Thai nationality, they can be shareholders (almost from birth) – eventually transfer some or all of wife’s shares.

Company owned land could be leased to you on a 30-year agreement, including option(s) for another one or two 30-year periods; which is a legal agreement but without any guarantee for fulfilment, however it’s your own company. The 30-year lease shall be servitude registered at the Land Office and a small tax paid for the full amount of the whole lease period, think it’s around 1 percent.

The company-model costs some yearly expenses for accounting and auditor, and some small company tax has to be paid – the company shall show a profit – so it may not be the “cheapest” way of doing it. A company set-up will cost you between 30k and 50k in lawyer’s fees and registration expenses; annual accounting costs for a simple company easily add up to some 30k and tax a few thousand baht. Some lawyers advise to have little other activities/income in the company, so the purpose not is holding of 1 plot of land only.

Other posters suggest usufruct for land “ownership”, which to my knowledge also have to be made before marriage if the wife is the landowner. There is much information about usufruct in TV treads and other pages on the Internet.

Wish you good luck…