The Lawa in Chiang Mai

[BonnieandClyde]

We are looking for any information about the Lawa people in and around Chiang Mai.

A very nice girl who lives in a neighbouring soi recently married a local boy who was described to us as a Lawa.

Having known the girl for several years as our seamstress and casual friend, we usually aren't shy about asking her questions, but in this case we don't want to appear too inquisitive. Hence the request for information here on the forum.

We understand that the Lawa pre-dated the Thais, and that they were somewhat persecuted.

What are some good sources concerning their history, culture, and traditions? The short articles that come up on Google are interesting, but don't have much information about Lawas near here past and present.

Thanks for any help.

[Gonzo the Face]

Being unfamiliar with " Lawa " I did resort to friend Google. With the exception of one learned member , I would feel that the Google readings would be much, much more in depth and accurate, than you would possibly get from the less learned members of this forum.. I think that from our group, and I include myself, you will get things from the Lawa of Loi Kroi to Lawa Lamps.

Go with Google. I thought it was pretty informative.

G

PS Over the years Lawa, may have been shortened to Wa. There is lot of input to the ' Wa ' tribes

Maybe ever some connection with Lanna ' La ' and ' Wa ' ..... close to the same time period.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Gonzo the Face

[Rotweiler]

According to Grandfather, the lou-ah people are almost no more having become part of thai culture. He says sometimes they are also called hatin.

[Oscar2]

i believe Gonzo the Face is correct when he says "PS Over the years Lawa, may have been shortened to Wa. There is lot of input to the ' Wa ' tribes"

[cmsally]

The H'tin are a different group from around eastern Nan approx

The Lua are now found mostly south of Chiang around Hot, Om Koi Mae Hong Son.

I am not too sure of the relation of the Burmese Wa to the Chiang Mai Lua (Lawa), maybe someone knows offhand.

[CMHomeboy78]

Allow me to make a few comments on your question about the Lawa people of Northern Thailand.

Linguistic studies have shown that they are distantly related to the Mon of Lower Burma whose cultural high-point was the 6th century AD Dvaravati kingdom with its capital at Nakorn Pathom in what later became Siam.

When the Kohn Muang migrated south from their old kingdom of Nanchao in present-day Yunnan, the Lawa were here as the principal ethnic group in what eventually became Lanna Thai - beginning as little kingdoms and principalities dominated by the newcomers.

Archaeological evidence from caves and rock shelters suggests the Lawa may have been here as early as the 5th century BC.

It is often said that the newly arrived Thai enslaved the Lawa and suppressed whatever culture they had. A careful reading of history shows that this is untrue. No doubt large numbers were impressed into servitude of one kind or another; as so often happens when a higher culture collides with an inferior one - or simply a weaker one.

The Chiang Mai Chronicle [Wyatt/Wichienkeo trans. Silkworm Books. 1995], always a plausible source of information, tells us that debt slavery was widespread among the Chaos of Chiang Mai and even among many landowners.

On the positive side is the fact that the Lawa continued to flourish as a people. Their simple culture and traditions were tolerated, and even encouraged to a certain extent by the Kohn Muang. They had the right to own land there were many Lawa villages that had a great deal of autonomy.

I hope that's helpful. It's just about all I know of the Lawa. - in a nutshell.

Sorry I can't recommend any books on the subject. The Lawa are referred to often, but I can't think of a single definitive study on these interesting people who seem to share with the Kohn Muang an instinctive civility and an artistic sense that is reflected in their highly refined folkarts.

Further study would disabuse anyone of the notion that the Kohn Muang had tried to suppress or exterminate the Lawa.

Live and let live... that's what Chiang Mai has been more often than not throughout its long history.

[masuk]

Allow me to make a few comments on your question about the Lawa people of Northern Thailand.

Linguistic studies have shown that they are distantly related to the Mon of Lower Burma whose cultural high-point was the 6th century AD Dvaravati kingdom with its capital at Nakorn Pathom in what later became Siam.

When the Kohn Muang migrated south from their old kingdom of Nanchao in present-day Yunnan, the Lawa were here as the principal ethnic group in what eventually became Lanna Thai - beginning as little kingdoms and principalities dominated by the newcomers.

Archaeological evidence from caves and rock shelters suggests the Lawa may have been here as early as the 5th century BC.

It is often said that the newly arrived Thai enslaved the Lawa and suppressed whatever culture they had. A careful reading of history shows that this is untrue. No doubt large numbers were impressed into servitude of one kind or another; as so often happens when a higher culture collides with an inferior one - or simply a weaker one.

The Chiang Mai Chronicle [Wyatt/Wichienkeo trans. Silkworm Books. 1995], always a plausible source of information, tells us that debt slavery was widespread among the Chaos of Chiang Mai and even among many landowners.

On the positive side is the fact that the Lawa continued to flourish as a people. Their simple culture and traditions were tolerated, and even encouraged to a certain extent by the Kohn Muang. They had the right to own land there were many Lawa villages that had a great deal of autonomy.

I hope that's helpful. It's just about all I know of the Lawa. - in a nutshell.

Sorry I can't recommend any books on the subject. The Lawa are referred to often, but I can't think of a single definitive study on these interesting people who seem to share with the Kohn Muang an instinctive civility and an artistic sense that is reflected in their highly refined folkarts.

Further study would disabuse anyone of the notion that the Kohn Muang had tried to suppress or exterminate the Lawa.

Live and let live... that's what Chiang Mai has been more often than not throughout its long history.

I'd not heard of this ethnic group before and it's interesting to learn about where I'm living now.

Thanks everyone.

Here's my 2 cents worth:

Lawa people

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lawa Total population 17,000 (est.) Regions with significant populations Laos, Thailand Languages Lawa, others Religion Animism, Buddhism ^[1]

Lawa (Lao: ລະວ້າ, Thai: ลั๊วะ or ละว้า English: Lawa) are an ethnic group in Laos (where they are considered among the Lao Theung) and northern Thailand. Their language is related to the Blang and the Wa language inChina and Burma and belongs to the Austroasiatic language group. Their population is estimated to be some 17,000. This group is known in China as 'Western Lawa' and is officially considered part of the Va minority.^[2]

Today many Lawa still live a traditional way of life, often professing animism. As the other mountain ethnic groups of Thailand, they are known for extraordinary craft skills.

[mamborobert]

Coincidentally there is an article in Citynews today on the annual Pu Sae Ya Sae Festival that forms part of the Lawa peoples culture and history. You will see quite a few Lawa there, dressed similar to the Karen big difference is the women have a shortish (by CM Thai standards)sarong or wrap with lightning motifs, and layers of beaded necklaces. Shame you have missed festival but once you see them you can identify on the rare occasion where you may see again. Maybe google for photos of festival?

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4059

p.s. this is what I mean (given I am a poor fashion consultant)

http://www.thailine.com/thailand/english/hill-e/lawa-e.htm

Edited June 16, 2014 by mamborobert

[isanbirder]

When I lived in Chiangmai, I had a Lawa friend who was a student at CMU. He came from the hills behind Mae La Noi in Mae Hong Son Province, and he told me that there were about 40 Lawa villages in that area. These, I think, are the only Lawa remaining in Thailand.

[CMHomeboy78]

The H'tin are a different group from around eastern Nan approx

The Lua are now found mostly south of Chiang around Hot, Om Koi Mae Hong Son.

I am not too sure of the relation of the Burmese Wa to the Chiang Mai Lua (Lawa), maybe someone knows offhand.

Interesting that you should say that the Lawa [Lua] are now found mostly around Hot, Om Koi, and Mae Hong Son.

James McCarthy [surveying and Exploring in Siam. Reprint White Lotus. 1994], a Briton employed by the Siamese Government Surveys between 1881 and 1893, says that during a trip upriver on the Mae Ping near Muang Hawt, he and his party found a group of Lawa villages where the people were engaged in smelting iron, using ore from local deposits.

So I guess they've been in that area for some time now.

[cmsally]

http://www.siamese-heritage.org/jsspdf/1971/JSS_059_1i_Kauffmann_StoneMemorialsOfLawa.pdf

http://www-01.sil.org/SILESR/2011/silesr2011-044.pdf

Bedtime Lawa reading!

http://www.sac.or.th/databases/siamrarebooks/main/index.php/component/content/article/44-jss/316-the-lawa-guardian-spirits-of-chiengmai

Edited June 16, 2014 by cmsally

[CMHomeboy78]

http://www.siamese-heritage.org/jsspdf/1971/JSS_059_1i_Kauffmann_StoneMemorialsOfLawa.pdf

http://www-01.sil.org/SILESR/2011/silesr2011-044.pdf

Bedtime Lawa reading!

http://www.sac.or.th/databases/siamrarebooks/main/index.php/component/content/article/44-jss/316-the-lawa-guardian-spirits-of-chiengmai

Excellent sources!

Just skimming the second link confirms what I've often read that the Lawa dialects are related to Mon-Khmer.

Edited June 16, 2014 by CMHomeboy78

[Johpa]

There are at least two Lawa villages up in Mae Rim, Muang Ka in the area near Wat Phraphutthabat Si Roi and Pang Hai in tambon Mae Raem, a village which you look down upon when visiting Mon Chaem. Both these Lawa villages in Mae Rim are Buddhist. Muang Ka holds an annual festival celebrating their Lawa roots, but judging from a recent photo post on my facebook, I reckon that celebration took place fairly recently. Both villages have largely assimilated to Khon Muang culture and, at least in Pang Hai, few, if any, of the young people speak any Lawa apart from. what I have been told, a few cuss words that maintain themselves along the male lineage. Like many Lawa villages up north, both are located close to Karen villages, perhaps a sign that both indigenous groups were pressured by Tai groups to move up from the lowlands that were favored by the more recent Tai migrations into the region centuries ago.

[BonnieandClyde]

Allow me to make a few comments on your question about the Lawa people of Northern Thailand.

Linguistic studies have shown that they are distantly related to the Mon of Lower Burma whose cultural high-point was the 6th century AD Dvaravati kingdom with its capital at Nakorn Pathom in what later became Siam.

When the Kohn Muang migrated south from their old kingdom of Nanchao in present-day Yunnan, the Lawa were here as the principal ethnic group in what eventually became Lanna Thai - beginning as little kingdoms and principalities dominated by the newcomers.

Archaeological evidence from caves and rock shelters suggests the Lawa may have been here as early as the 5th century BC.

It is often said that the newly arrived Thai enslaved the Lawa and suppressed whatever culture they had. A careful reading of history shows that this is untrue. No doubt large numbers were impressed into servitude of one kind or another; as so often happens when a higher culture collides with an inferior one - or simply a weaker one.

The Chiang Mai Chronicle [Wyatt/Wichienkeo trans. Silkworm Books. 1995], always a plausible source of information, tells us that debt slavery was widespread among the Chaos of Chiang Mai and even among many landowners.

On the positive side is the fact that the Lawa continued to flourish as a people. Their simple culture and traditions were tolerated, and even encouraged to a certain extent by the Kohn Muang. They had the right to own land there were many Lawa villages that had a great deal of autonomy.

I hope that's helpful. It's just about all I know of the Lawa. - in a nutshell.

Sorry I can't recommend any books on the subject. The Lawa are referred to often, but I can't think of a single definitive study on these interesting people who seem to share with the Kohn Muang an instinctive civility and an artistic sense that is reflected in their highly refined folkarts.

Further study would disabuse anyone of the notion that the Kohn Muang had tried to suppress or exterminate the Lawa.

Live and let live... that's what Chiang Mai has been more often than not throughout its long history.

Helpful indeed and very interesting. Thanks a lot.

All the other informative replies are much appreciated as well. It's great to have access to such a wide range of information and the good-hearted people who are willing to share it so readily.

[CMHomeboy78]

I just came across this a few days ago and thought it might be of interest to you:

Lawa Guardian Spirits of Chiang Mai.

By Krisri Nimmanhaeminda.

Journal of the Siam Society. Vol. 55. 1967. PDF file.

The annual festival at Wat Doi Kham was referred to in post #8, with a link to a recent CityNews CM article with some excellent photos.

This legend was vaguely familiar to me, but the JSS account provides a wealth of additional information and details that include traditional stories about Queen Chamadevi of Haripunchai [Lamphun], and King Mengrai of Chiang Mai, and their relations with the Lawa.

According to folklore, Pu Sae, Ya Sae, and their son Sudeva Rikshi were Lawas with a propensity for cannibalism, until they met the Buddha on his visit to this area, near what is now Mae Rim.

After trying to make a meal of him, the trio were converted to Buddhism, and the son, Sudeva, became a monk living on the mountain that now bears his name: Doi Suthep.

The legend has it that from this time onward the Lawa people gave up cannibalism and began to be assimilated; first with the Mon to the south - with whom they are distantly related - then with the Thai, who later started coming down from the north.

The father, the mother, and the son, as a trinity of spirits have been venerated by both Thais and Lawas ever since.

People with a bias against animism often point out that they are given propitiatory offerings out of fear that they might revert to cannibalism. No doubt there is some truth in that; done on the principal that it's a good idea to cover all the bases.

It's all a part of what Chiang Mai has been, and still is.

[Duvidl]

That's a real tasty story that offers us some food for thought.

[BonnieandClyde]

I just came across this a few days ago and thought it might be of interest to you:

Lawa Guardian Spirits of Chiang Mai.

By Krisri Nimmanhaeminda.

Journal of the Siam Society. Vol. 55. 1967. PDF file.

The annual festival at Wat Doi Kham was referred to in post #8, with a link to a recent CityNews CM article with some excellent photos.

This legend was vaguely familiar to me, but the JSS account provides a wealth of additional information and details that include traditional stories about Queen Chamadevi of Haripunchai [Lamphun], and King Mengrai of Chiang Mai, and their relations with the Lawa.

According to folklore, Pu Sae, Ya Sae, and their son Sudeva Rikshi were Lawas with a propensity for cannibalism, until they met the Buddha on his visit to this area, near what is now Mae Rim.

After trying to make a meal of him, the trio were converted to Buddhism, and the son, Sudeva, became a monk living on the mountain that now bears his name: Doi Suthep.

The legend has it that from this time onward the Lawa people gave up cannibalism and began to be assimilated; first with the Mon to the south - with whom they are distantly related - then with the Thai, who later started coming down from the north.

The father, the mother, and the son, as a trinity of spirits have been venerated by both Thais and Lawas ever since.

People with a bias against animism often point out that they are given propitiatory offerings out of fear that they might revert to cannibalism. No doubt there is some truth in that; done on the principal that it's a good idea to cover all the bases.

It's all a part of what Chiang Mai has been, and still is.

The JSS article was full of interesting information. Combined with the photographs in the CityNews piece linked by mamborobert it makes an excellent reference for this subject that we thank you both for.

Is this legend the only one that says the Lawas practiced cannibalism at one time?

[CMHomeboy78]

I just came across this a few days ago and thought it might be of interest to you:

Lawa Guardian Spirits of Chiang Mai.

By Krisri Nimmanhaeminda.

Journal of the Siam Society. Vol. 55. 1967. PDF file.

The annual festival at Wat Doi Kham was referred to in post #8, with a link to a recent CityNews CM article with some excellent photos.

This legend was vaguely familiar to me, but the JSS account provides a wealth of additional information and details that include traditional stories about Queen Chamadevi of Haripunchai [Lamphun], and King Mengrai of Chiang Mai, and their relations with the Lawa.

According to folklore, Pu Sae, Ya Sae, and their son Sudeva Rikshi were Lawas with a propensity for cannibalism, until they met the Buddha on his visit to this area, near what is now Mae Rim.

After trying to make a meal of him, the trio were converted to Buddhism, and the son, Sudeva, became a monk living on the mountain that now bears his name: Doi Suthep.

The legend has it that from this time onward the Lawa people gave up cannibalism and began to be assimilated; first with the Mon to the south - with whom they are distantly related - then with the Thai, who later started coming down from the north.

The father, the mother, and the son, as a trinity of spirits have been venerated by both Thais and Lawas ever since.

People with a bias against animism often point out that they are given propitiatory offerings out of fear that they might revert to cannibalism. No doubt there is some truth in that; done on the principal that it's a good idea to cover all the bases.

It's all a part of what Chiang Mai has been, and still is.

The JSS article was full of interesting information. Combined with the photographs in the CityNews piece linked by mamborobert it makes an excellent reference for this subject that we thank you both for.

Is this legend the only one that says the Lawas practiced cannibalism at one time?

Yes, I think it is. I'm not aware of any other legends that mention it in connection with the Lawas.

As you may know, headhunting and cannibalism was practiced until fairly recent times by some tribes and ethnic groups in Upper Burma - the Naga; Wa; and Lolos among a few others.

According to most accounts it was part of a ritual where the heads of enemies were kept as trophies, and the heart, liver, testicles, etc. were devoured in ceremonies to celebrate victory.

It was a rough neighbourhood.