Buying A Sailboat

[worldwidediver]

hello all. I'm thinking of buying a 28ft sailboat for my own use here in thailand now that the customs and exise taxes have been dumped. But I can't find out I would go about registering the thing or anything else about how one would import a boat. Local "experts (lawyers!!!)" have been next to useless. If I want an oil tanker, fine, personal sailboat, no clue! any help appreciated.

[fatter than harry]

Whereabouts are you thinking of buying the boat, Phuket? If so i reccommend Thai Marine Leisure (TML) they did the registering of our boat. email address is: [email protected]

[worldwidediver]

Thanks for that I've just emailed them. Is your boat registered in Thailand because I also heard that foreigners can't register boats here and you need to have a 70% thai company to do this. For commercial vessels I might understand this requirement, but for recreational craft this seems absurd and can't be right.

[otherstuff1957]

As usual, I'm going to mouth off about something I know nothing about . I worked as a Yacht Broker in California for several years and noticed that most lawyers knew nothing about Maritime Law and usually gave their clients bad, expensive advice. I'd second the recommendation to go to a Yacht Broker, they deal with title transfers all the time & will know the real scoop!

[fatter than harry]

Commercial or recreation doesn't matter, its more to do with owning assets than intended use. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people on this site than I that can enlighten you in that regard. We have just sold the boat, the guy that bought it was going to register it into his existing trading company but as it was only 51% Thai owned he was unable to do so, he bought a 70% Thai owned shelf company from his lawyer - the lawyer is very reputable but I'd check on the legalities of buying a shelf company as I think this was outlawed a while ago, although that might only apply to owning property.

Hope this helps

[astral]

I am not sure about shelf companies, but he can certainly get his lawyer to setup a comapny for him, 51% thai owner (nominees) but he will be the MD and have the signing power.

Why is all this needed?

Surely a boat should be like a car?

It is not their precious land that they are always afraid that we will steal.

God knows how, it would take an awful lot of lorries to take it all away, and leave a very big hole.

[diverdan]

Good point. I too was under the impression that a boat was like a car, but apparently not!. I'd heard the you "need a company" stuff before, but I've since heard that this applies to commercial vessels only. Now I'm confused, does anyone have a definative answer on this point. I'm not going to all the hassle of getting a thai company just to own a boat. I think I'll buy the thing, ship it to Malaysia, register it and just sail it back in to Thailand. If it has to leave every few months, so what, it's a least an excuse to go sailing. Surely if the government wants to encourage sailing by dumping taxes they should make a similar provision with ownership.

[NedKelly]

Many years ago in Kashmir when the brits colonial rule was inplace in India. Someone introduced a law banning ownership of land for a certaingroup within the community. So these people satrted building houseboats and living onthem. Now the Dahl Lake in Srinagar has loads of houseboats.

So maybe the laws are stiff because the boat can be used as a residence ?? Just my thoughts !

[chanchao]

So maybe the laws are stiff because the boat can be used as a residence ?? Just my thoughts !

A truck/camper/trailer can also be used as a residence and we can just own one? Actually even a condo we can own without doing dodgy deals involving leases and fake companies..

Cheers,

Chanchao

[NedKelly]

Thats true Chanchao but dont see many of them around. However its got me beat !! Maybe its a case of ...if theydont know what to do ...then justtax the shit out of it and introduce loads of laws to make it hard for anyone to locate their yachts here. I imagine there would be job losses in the local boating industry ...but also job creation !! So god knows.

[diverdan]

the really stupid thing is they have got rid of all tax on importing boats. Making it impossible for a farang to buy one looks to me like a tax loss minimization ploy. hey if we get rid of the tax loads of people will buy them, so lets make impossible to buy a boat. What are these people on!

[crazymonk]

Worldwide: There is no reason you could not licence the boat in your country of citizenship, (assuming you don't have Thai citizenship). The only thing is that when you enter the country you will be given a six mounth stamp on the vessel and then there would need to be a six mounth extention applied for. After that I would assume you would need to take the boat to Malasia to exit the country and re-enter it into Thailand. This may sound like an inconvieniance but it is much better than it was only a few years ago.

http://www.noonsite.com/

This is a website that is set up for world cruisers and is a great source of acurate up to date information on this kind of issue.

My comments are not the answer but rather a starting point of your Due Diligence. For example: If you are form the US. you would need to pay Sales Tax in most states to licence the boat in that state. Also some states have a higher Excise tax rate than others. This could be a contributing factor in what state you choose to lic the vessel in.

Please keep me informed of your progress. I plan to sail across the pacific and settle in Thailand in a few years. I would be happy to help further if I can. [email protected]

[KevinN]

I do not think that a state license is what you would need,Most country's will not recognize a state license, Documentation is what is required to enter a vessel into foreign waters,,and that is done at the US Coast Guard. and a personal property tax is set for it then.

[fatter than harry]

Just got back from the lawyers regarding the sale of the boat - you're right they know bugger all. I got much better information and service from TML when we bought it, I reccommend you try them.

Or just buy a car

[otherstuff1957]

I do not think that a state license is what you would need,Most country's will not recognize a state license, Documentation is what is required to enter a vessel into foreign waters,,and that is done at the US Coast Guard. and a personal property tax is set for it then.

If you are from the US, you would want to Document the boat with the USGC, rather than register it with a state! It's a relatively easy process, the only tricky part would be getting the Bill of Sale notorized by a US notary. I know that the Embassy offers this service.

If you do a search on USCG Documentation, you should find the relevent links. The Canadian system is very similar.

[crazymonk]

My question is; Is there a requirement of all state taxes being paid when you document the vessel? I will check into this tomarrow. But the truth is that just because a vessel is documented does not mean that the state does not feel that they are owed their "Precious" (tax). But if they are never notified then who cares. The only issue may be when you sell the vessel in the USA here is where you may get stuck. To side step this issue you only need to licence the boat in a state with low sales tax and excise tax. Say Oregon! This is my secret plan. But don't tell anybody.

[KevinN]

MONK; With documentation you pay no state tax or heavy license fees, but you will have to pay a personal property tax, and if say,you live in calif. or Wash. and register in Oregon with a legal Oregon addy. and the boat is moored in calif. or Wash.,how long do you think it will be before they catch you? Then you get into the big money.

My last boat was documented,and I sold it and the guy went cruising for a couple of years and he sold her in Aust. and there was no problem with the sale.A very nice Bristol 40 yawl.

[crazymonk]

Yes you are right you could not expect to keep the boat in Washington or Califoria for any length of time without finding yourself in trouble. If I planned on staying in Seattle then I could expect to eventually get caught. Espically if the boat sits in a Marina. 1 to 2 years tops.

My plan is to sail away and then my state of residency is not phony. I would technicaly not live in any state. So to pick a state that will not re-distribute my wealth becomes very important.

Hey, I have considered the Bristol 40 for a possible first boat. (before the great escape). When I take off for good I think I will want somethig a tad bigger. Say 45-50 and beamier. This is how I ended up here. I will stop in Thailand and make it home for a time.

What are your general comments on the bristol yachts?