How to protect your assets in a divorce?

[hellohello123]

I was wondering if there is a thread that basically outlines reasonable ways to protect your assets in a thai marriage,

for the record this is strictly hypothetical, and I am not married, nor considering,

1. put the house/loan in her name, which means she would have to prove to the bank that she can afford it, which may be looked upon as a big no no if the man is not contributing

2. as above but the man pays the mortgage, which in the event of a split the man gets nothing so I assume is also a bad idea

3. both parties rent a property and split bills or he pays for the rent

4. Buy under a company/trust with 50% share

and please no silly suggestions like leave the country or become gay

[gmac]

I think your No.2 is an excellent idea actually. If you didn't marry the girl you would be paying rent anyway, so if you just pay a mortgage for her instead how are you losing, assuming the amounts involved are similar.

[taiping]

Register your Thai assets (property, bank accounts, investments, personal effects, car, etc) at the Amphur at the time the marriage is registered. Only those assets accumulated after marriage are split 50/50 in case of divorce.

When I registered my marriage in 1994 the Amphur official accepted my assets declaration without comment.

Make sure you keep a copy of all documents.

Have a Will (I paid 6,000 baht to a reputable lawyer but I drafted it myself).

IMO do not buy a house - I've heard of too many problems with the ex. If inclined, buy a condo in your name before marriage.

[bankei]

What about the consequences for property in the farang home country?

Bankei

[kerrysum]

Well how about creating a trust? I did it before, and yes it was as Thailand said a 49% and 51%, but still you have some control. I have even used it here in the United States... In Thailand it did go well, and when my lifelong partner wanted to depart, I had to sign off, with her parents.... I will admit they were honorable people. But at the time, I could not see pouring money into nothing.... Perhaps many Thai women wish to marry you, for we may all know what? And if by the way you are living in that country, or another, it works to your benefit. As a Trustee, at least I had a 49% voice, and yes could, of course veto. My best advice is keep your ducks in a row.....

I did and I am not, saddened by it. It was never about, whom had what, but knowing what was going on... Just my opinion brother. It kept everything, on the up and up.....

Good luck in your future endeavors. kilosierra

[Krataiboy]

The last time I enquired, it was not possible to set up a trust in Thailand. I am not aware that the law has changed.

[12DrinkMore]

Register your Thai assets (property, bank accounts, investments, personal effects, car, etc) at the Amphur at the time the marriage is registered. Only those assets accumulated after marriage are split 50/50 in case of divorce.

When I registered my marriage in 1994 the Amphur official accepted my assets declaration without comment.

Make sure you keep a copy of all documents.

Have a Will (I paid 6,000 baht to a reputable lawyer but I drafted it myself).

IMO do not buy a house - I've heard of too many problems with the ex. If inclined, buy a condo in your name before marriage.

Provided you have declared the assets before marriage; if you buy a condo after getting marriage and can show the "paper trail" of money being transferred from your account, the condo is yours and not subject to a 50/50 split on divorce.

[cornishcarlos]

Just marry someone that you actually like !!

[belg]

basic thing : find a rich hi-so

she pays for the house, the car, most of the expenses

i know i did ...

so if she ever kicks me out, possible off course, than i did not lose half or most of what i had been working for all my life

555555

[cosmont]

Prenuptial agreement is a must and I talk with experience.

Don't forget to give a copy at ampur (thai version).

For the foreign AS/SET, I also gave a copy to my embassy for registration.

Regarding the properties bought after marriage, if you pay 100% and don't want to share in case of Divorce, I suggest to buy a condo in your own name.

If you buy a house, It will be better that the company was created before the marriage.

It depend always how the divorce is easy or not but always remember, if you are the one who leave, most of Thai women will want to get lot of your money to save face with family and friends.

[hellohello123]

I think your No.2 is an excellent idea actually. If you didn't marry the girl you would be paying rent anyway, so if you just pay a mortgage for her instead how are you losing, assuming the amounts involved are similar.

I dont think it's a good idea, imagine being married for twenty years, you pay for all the mortgage and at the end arent entitled to anything of it (if that's the case)

That's a raw deal

[hellohello123]

Prenuptial agreement is a must and I talk with experience.

Don't forget to give a copy at ampur (thai version).

For the foreign AS/SET, I also gave a copy to my embassy for registration.

Regarding the properties bought after marriage, if you pay 100% and don't want to share in case of Divorce, I suggest to buy a condo in your own name.

If you buy a house, It will be better that the company was created before the marriage.

It depend always how the divorce is easy or not but always remember, if you are the one who leave, most of Thai women will want to get lot of your money to save face with family and friends.

Maybe you could explain, I understand the concept of face, but wouldn't you still lose face if hubby left evennthough he left behind a million dollars?

As she is still the one who's hubby did a runner so she must have been a dud

[hellohello123]

Just marry someone that you actually like !!

Do you drive around in your favourite car without insurance thinking you won't crash?!?!?!?

I certainly don't, even if I was Michael Schumacher

[khunPer]

»…reasonable ways to protect your assets in a thai marriage.«

That is a very good question.

It is normally advised always to make a Prenuptial Agreement, which protects both parts. Best to have a Thai lawyer to make it, or as suggested in above post #3 just stated at the Amphur. A Prenuptial Agreement secures what each part owns before a marriage, also the foreigner’s wealth abroad – the outcome and what may replace it – which is important to remember if the couple moves abroad to the husbands home country, or a house at “home” are sold later and replaced with one in Thailand.

After common Thai law in principle any common property shall be divided 50/50 in case of divorce. In practice that may cause problems, if for example a house has been build on wife’s land in village or at land without the “right” title on the land deed. Also usufruct or lease arrangement can be a problem when splitting, depending on who owns the land. Do the ex-husband wish to stay on ex-wife’s family land, even he has a usufruct, and if leased land are anybody interested in taking over the lease…?

Therefore many advise that one shall never invest more in Thai property, than one can afford to loose…

However the “company way” for owing (Chanute) land – and house – may be a possibility, but requires the “right” set-up by an experienced lawyer. A trust is to my knowledge not possible in Thailand.

Suggestions about Thai wife buys the house with a mortgage in her name may also be a possibility – that will cost interest, but the husband can walk away without loosing more than he already paid for – however, can the wife obtain a mortgage loan without the bank claiming additional guarantee from her husband…?

That the husband buys a condo before marriage and has that stated in the Prenuptial Agreement, or just renting a house, may be well working solutions. However rather than renting a home, couples that plan long ahead may wish to own their property and keep the increase of value.

I think we also have to remember, that Thailand seems more old-fashioned, like the West once were, where the husband is the provider and takes care of the family. It may work with the “modern” thinking about sharing expenses 50/50 in some cases, but I do believe many a Thai lady thinks of a farang husband like a provider – at least until she moves abroad with her farang, find a job and realize that expenses have to be shared in one-or-other level…

And do Western men more easily – meaning quickly without a long relationship or engagement, or just without to much brainwork – get married to Southeast Asian ladies than women back home…?

Does it increase the divorce risk with a (much) younger wife…?

Does some financial loss divorced men complains about, come from pre-marriage non-revocable agreements like sin sot and/or gifts to in-laws, for example house and/or car…?

I believe the most important is to decide what you can afford or want to risk before getting too deeply into a relationship. For some a house for wife and/or in-laws in village is not a “big thing”, if it means a happy marriage, for others it’s life savings at risk. The village home, whether you are going to stay there or not, seems very important for the Thai wife – understandable, some kind of security if things goes wrong, or just a “make face” with a farang husband in the family – on top may come the “real home”, rented or owned, you are going to share somewhere else in Thailand. I would talk clearly with my eventually Thai-wife-to-be about the financial situation and ongoing support, which can included ideas coming up with this-and-that now needed at home in village, before marriage planning – well I did so with my “just” girlfriend, and that have worked well. May be advisable also to keep in mind not to reveal all savings or income, whether there are some or not – which may then be a problem when making and signing a Prenuptial Agreement – unfortunately in Thailand it seems like a good idea always to be worth more alive, than dead; the latter also in a figurative sense, meaning basis for divorce…

However, many Western men also complains about having been ripped off by wife back “home” – not only loosing property and savings, but also the burden with ongoing alimony and child support – so there seems to be serious marriage risks almost everywhere, not only in Thailand.

[cornishcarlos]

Just marry someone that you actually like !!

Do you drive around in your favourite car without insurance thinking you won't crash?!?!?!?

I certainly don't, even if I was Michael Schumacher

I would if my ex hadn't taken it in the divorce !!

[hellohello123]

Just marry someone that you actually like !!

Do you drive around in your favourite car without insurance thinking you won't crash?!?!?!?

I certainly don't, even if I was Michael Schumacher

I would if my ex hadn't taken it in the divorce !!

Haha if I felt I got scammed out of a car, I'd rather burn it then give it to a scammer

[cornishcarlos]

I was joking... I'm happily married still and everything is in her name...

Can always buy more if it ever goes south

[personchester]

Register your Thai assets (property, bank accounts, investments, personal effects, car, etc) at the Amphur at the time the marriage is registered. Only those assets accumulated after marriage are split 50/50 in case of divorce.

When I registered my marriage in 1994 the Amphur official accepted my assets declaration without comment.

Make sure you keep a copy of all documents.

Have a Will (I paid 6,000 baht to a reputable lawyer but I drafted it myself).

IMO do not buy a house - I've heard of too many problems with the ex. If inclined, buy a condo in your name before marriage.

A condo can be purchased in the farang's name providing that the general farang ownership of the condo's is not already up to 49 %

Living conditions in many condo's are noisy and messy, this is why many westerners purchase, or rent a house in order to have a better live style.

[GOLDBUGGY]

If you are not married to a Thai yet, the best way to protect yourself in a future marriage and divorce is to buy a Condo Legally in your name now. Thailand Divorce Laws allow you to keep what you brought into a marriage. All the documents would be in your name only, as you bought this place before marriage, so if things go South all you have to do is kick her out or sell the place.

Notice I mentioned "Legally" purchase your own Condo. Many people set up fake companies and then buy a Condo under that name. This is not legal and although you may get away with it for now, or a long time, the day may come when you can lose it if they enforce this law. More and more each day I see this real possibility happening.

But judging from your post I am assuming that you don't have all the funds right now to buy your own Condo, or are not comfortable yet in throwing down this much money in perhaps a place you are not sure about. This is understandable! So a mortgage over several years is another option in which you would not have to be stuck paying rent all the time and like number 4. But it is the safest as if things go South you have only lost your rent money, which you needed to pay anyway to stay here.

So a Long Term Mortgage does seem like a good option on paper for you, but in most cases that is all it ever will be for you. Just a Good Idea. You income will not be taken into account when your wife applies for a Mortgage. Only her income will be considered. Where else will you ever see that? But since you are not allowed to own property (baring a Private Condo) you can't expect a bank to lend you money on a property that you are not allowed to own. It would be like lending you money for a drug deal.

So the problem with the Mortgage Idea is it is all dependent on how much money your Thai Wife makes. If she makes an average 15,000 Baht a month salary she would be entitled to a mortgage of about 500,000 Baht. This doesn't buy you much of a house and perhaps not the type of house you want to live in the next 25 years and until the mortgage is paid off.

If she can afford to get a 3M Baht Mortgage I am not sure why you feel you need to pay this mortgage all by yourself. Pay half and make a legal contract drawn up by a lawyer that in the event of your death she gets the house. Or you in the even she dies first it goes to you. You may have some battles making this claim after her death, but either way you would only lose half as much and had a free place to stay all that time. After a few years and your marriage is more secure you can always pay more if you want to.

But most likely she will not earn that kind of money to buy a house like that so you will be stuck renting for a long time. Which isn't so bad as rent is cheap here, There is always that sense of satisfaction and freedom in owning your own house, but I would be very careful with that here. There are very few laws and real protection devices here for you in investing in your own home with a Thai Woman (or Man). Buyer Beware! ,

.

[gmac]

I think your No.2 is an excellent idea actually. If you didn't marry the girl you would be paying rent anyway, so if you just pay a mortgage for her instead how are you losing, assuming the amounts involved are similar.

I dont think it's a good idea, imagine being married for twenty years, you pay for all the mortgage and at the end arent entitled to anything of it (if that's the case)

That's a raw deal

That's life in your own country. In Thailand you can't own the land, the chances are you will die before your wife, so where is the harm in putting the money you would have needed to pay to rent a house into a mortgage in her name which gives her somewhere to continue her life once you are gone? With a rental you would have nothing to show for it after 20 years either.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AlexRRR]

Dont get married.....simple and no problems,

Get it out in the open at the start, im pretty sure 75% will accept it and if she dont plenty want to take her place thats been my experience.

Of course if you want to get married as well then just like any western country if it breaks down there is going to be a cost so think carefully and then think again if your going to take on someone who has next to nothing with an education and job prospects to match.

[hyperdimension]

Can a prenuptial agreement prevent the wife from seizing 50% of assets, either Thai or foreign, that were acquired after marriage in the event of a divorce?

Can a prenuptial agreement specify that in the event of a divorce, the wife will receive no share of the husband's assets, both past and future? (She may already be quite wealthy.)

Is a bank account, either Thai or foreign, considered an "asset"?

Must all existing assets, either Thai or foreign, be declared when making a prenuptial agreement? Is there any risk if some foreign assets are not disclosed, e.g. foreign bank accounts or foreign property?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

She gets the home loan in her name.

Everything you contribute, you pay direct to the company/bank from your Thai bank account yourself. Keeping all receipts.

No cash at any time in her hand (or anyone else's)

Make all home loan repayments yourself direct from your Thai bank account to the bank. Keeping all receipts.

If you can prove you paid, and she can't, then the house is yours on divorce.

If neither of you can provide a money trail, it is divided 50/50.

A prenup in Thailand is only to clarify prior existing personal assets.

You cannot bypass Thai law that states, all you accumulate in the marriage is joint assets.

Edited July 31, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[hyperdimension]

A prenup in Thailand is only to clarify prior existing personal assets.

You cannot bypass Thai law that states, all you accumulate in the marriage is joint assets.

So is simply not telling her about acquired assets the only way to protect assets that are acquired after marriage?

Edited August 1, 2014 by hyperdimension

[hanuman2543]

She gets the home loan in her name.

Everything you contribute, you pay direct to the company/bank from your Thai bank account yourself. Keeping all receipts.

No cash at any time in her hand (or anyone else's)

Make all home loan repayments yourself direct from your Thai bank account to the bank. Keeping all receipts.

If you can prove you paid, and she can't, then the house is yours on divorce.

If neither of you can provide a money trail, it is divided 50/50.

A prenup in Thailand is only to clarify prior existing personal assets.

You cannot bypass Thai law that states, all you accumulate in the marriage is joint assets.

That is only true when the money used to pay for the loan payment is the sin Sin suan tua of the foreign husband and therefore not allowed. See Land Amendment Act ,2542. If the money is salary it would be sin somros. What every spouse aquires under the conditions of Sec 1471(3) of the CCC will be the sin suan tua of the reciever.