Veera comes home, hit by old charges: Seizure of Bangkok's airports

[wandasloan]

This is nothing to do with being partial or impartial. Veera obviously (except to some flea-brained souls) had nothing to do with the protests and violence which resulted in the coup.

It's just another example of a seriously flawed judicial system of handing out bail to those (& friends) that can afford to post the requisite amount. The system is only partial in the sense that it does tend to discriminate against the really poor.

This is a good post, worth repeating. So I did. Trying to conflate Veera and the recent street protests and violence and coup is silly. Veera has been tucked in every night of the past several years by the lovely Hun Sen. His case of alleged so-called "terrorism" has NOTHING to do with current political events, where by "current" I mean 2013-2014.

And while I might dispute this "seriously flawed judicial system" comment in some ways, the fact is that it *is* the system and what happened to Veera on Wednesday happened without regard to the current power holders. EXACTLY the same thing would have happened under the Yingluck regime and the Abhisit regime - exactly, not a smidgeon of difference..

We disagree on some things, though. The thing is that if you lock up Veera and Sondhi Lim and the Maha Chamlong and Jatuporn and Natthawut and all the other accused alleged so-called "terrorists" in order "to await trial", all you're doing is locking them up for life. I'm not sure I want to have the judicial system that you seem to favour, but if you want it, you'll have to tear down every single part of the current system, no exceptions, no stone or cornerstone or law book excepted. That of course won't happen. I don't really want the US or British justice systems launched here. I don't mind being vastly, hugely different from them.

Me, however, I'd settle for a little more actual justice for those "really poor" you mention quite correctly, because on that we agree 101%. I'm really not disturbed that alleged mass murderers like Abhisit and alleged inciters to violence like Suthep and the alleged so-called "terrorists" Sondhi and the Maha and Jatuporn walk among us, I'm really not.

But I am greatly, mightily disturbed by the injustice that put those infamous mushroom pickers in prison for 15 years, and a penniless man who sold one CD on the street in Bangkok for 5 years for piracy (!) and a boy on whom a policeman actually planted one ya ba tablet almost went to prison for 12 years until very important intervention in his case - but not in hundreds of others. There are certainly hundreds, probably thousands of such cases, and they really do bother me, whereas seeing the detestable Chamlong on the streets really doesn't.

I can live okay with a hundred murdering Abhisits being free but I am deeply, perpetually troubled by all those locked up without justice.

.

[winstonc]

great news him being released..as for closing the airports so what desperate times call for desperate measures get over yourselves..

[AleG]

As usual for a conspiracy theorists, after absence of evidence the next best thing to prove their pet theories is actual evidence that "appears" to go against the conspiracy.

So a Yellow Shirt being summoned by the courts is just another piece of their puzzle showing how the elites control the judiciary... or something.

It's more fun to read than a Von Daniken book.

[diehard60]

this is good. Now do the same to suthep

[wandasloan]

this is good. Now do the same to suthep

It already has been done. Twice in one day a couple of weeks ago. And two or three times in the past four years.

.

[khunken]

This is nothing to do with being partial or impartial. Veera obviously (except to some flea-brained souls) had nothing to do with the protests and violence which resulted in the coup.

It's just another example of a seriously flawed judicial system of handing out bail to those (& friends) that can afford to post the requisite amount. The system is only partial in the sense that it does tend to discriminate against the really poor.

This is a good post, worth repeating. So I did. Trying to conflate Veera and the recent street protests and violence and coup is silly. Veera has been tucked in every night of the past several years by the lovely Hun Sen. His case of alleged so-called "terrorism" has NOTHING to do with current political events, where by "current" I mean 2013-2014.

And while I might dispute this "seriously flawed judicial system" comment in some ways, the fact is that it *is* the system and what happened to Veera on Wednesday happened without regard to the current power holders. EXACTLY the same thing would have happened under the Yingluck regime and the Abhisit regime - exactly, not a smidgeon of difference..

We disagree on some things, though. The thing is that if you lock up Veera and Sondhi Lim and the Maha Chamlong and Jatuporn and Natthawut and all the other accused alleged so-called "terrorists" in order "to await trial", all you're doing is locking them up for life. I'm not sure I want to have the judicial system that you seem to favour, but if you want it, you'll have to tear down every single part of the current system, no exceptions, no stone or cornerstone or law book excepted. That of course won't happen. I don't really want the US or British justice systems launched here. I don't mind being vastly, hugely different from them.

Me, however, I'd settle for a little more actual justice for those "really poor" you mention quite correctly, because on that we agree 101%. I'm really not disturbed that alleged mass murderers like Abhisit and alleged inciters to violence like Suthep and the alleged so-called "terrorists" Sondhi and the Maha and Jatuporn walk among us, I'm really not.

But I am greatly, mightily disturbed by the injustice that put those infamous mushroom pickers in prison for 15 years, and a penniless man who sold one CD on the street in Bangkok for 5 years for piracy (!) and a boy on whom a policeman actually planted one ya ba tablet almost went to prison for 12 years until very important intervention in his case - but not in hundreds of others. There are certainly hundreds, probably thousands of such cases, and they really do bother me, whereas seeing the detestable Chamlong on the streets really doesn't.

I can live okay with a hundred murdering Abhisits being free but I am deeply, perpetually troubled by all those locked up without justice.

.

I agree with all of your post except where you put words in my mouth - again.

'I'm not sure I want to have the judicial system that you seem to favour'

I haven't expressed any preference for any judicial system only that the current one is flawed. Also it is not true that refusing bail to those accused of serious crimes is locking them up for life. There is the 'small' matter of a trial before that.

Here are some of my thoughts on the judicial system:

The problem actually is linked to the political nature of the charges where 'terrorism' is used as flavour of the month to enhance the 'seriousness' of the alleged crime. All those you mention (Abhisit, 'the detestable' Jatuporn, etc) are in receipt of totally biased charges and IMO deserve bail (as does Veera). Where it gets out of hand is it allows convicted murderers to post bail (Kalasin - 'war on drugs' execution of a youth) and also allows others (such as the Red Bull heir) to flee the country.

Bail is certainly a fair decision in allowing a non-violent individual not to have to be locked up for years awaiting trial. (That's another flaw - far too much delayed trials.) However procedures should be in place to prevent those fleeing from justice - viz passport confiscation, black listing at the country's exit points.

[mikemac]

Junta arrests invitees as of June 18th

Number of individuals summoned or arrested by affiliation = 511 summoned, 181 Arrested

Related to UDD / PTP = 373

Related to PDRC / Democrat Party = 48

Academics / Press / Activists = 158

As ggold said, these amazing figures only indicate one thing, that the UDD and PTP are the real trouble makers. Thanks for the useful contribution to the discussion.

Looks like someone has jumped ship and decided to use his powers for good, and not evil.

[fab4]

I agree, the red shirt apologists, turned sore losers, have consistently tried to argue that the good General will inevitably show favour towards one group over another. This provides further evidence of his impartiality and should result in quietening the likes of fabbie and Co.

Junta arrests invitees as of June 18th

Number of individuals summoned or arrested by affiliation = 511 summoned, 181 Arrested

Related to UDD / PTP = 373

Related to PDRC / Democrat Party = 48

Academics / Press / Activists = 158

that proves the UDD and PTP are the real trouble makers.

How could I argue with that logic? Still, as long as you're happy in happy land.

[wandasloan]

I agree with all of your post except where you put words in my mouth - again.

'I'm not sure I want to have the judicial system that you seem to favour'

Well, I apologise for that. That's not my right. But I'd just add to the unqualified apology for doing that - that what I assumed about fixes you'd like to happen is pretty much as you stated them in your own words.

So at least I sort of kind of put the right words in there. But I'll bear that in mind.

It turns out in the end we agree pretty much on everything in this limited subject, including "terrorism" charges. But what I see the problem (and there *is* certainly a problem or 12) with bail is that it is so terribly abused. Your Kalasin example is very well taken, a terrible offence against justice and indeed the security of the community.

But my claim is that it's not so much a systemic problem as a justice-applied problem. But on the other hand, the judiciary branch of justice is neither fearless nor incorruptible, and THAT is a systemic problem. For example, I don't believe for a second those policemen got bail because the system's flawed. But the fact that there are many places in addition to Kalasin where they might have got bail, that's a problem with the system, that judges are.... let's be non-libellous and say "susceptible".

All those you mention (Abhisit, 'the detestable' Jatuporn, etc) ... snip, snip

Just to be clear, I awarded that adjective to Chamlong. I have no admiration for him. I don't protest your co-opting it for Jatuporn, but it wasn't me, heh. I don't like any of them much, but I don't believe or accept that any of them we've named between us is an actual terrorist no matter how much you stretch that word. Don't get me wrong, none of them is angelic. But terrorists? Nah.

[fab4]

To my knowledge Veera was not part of any leadership group during the airport seizures. He may have attended.

Veera's main problem is that, as a journalist, he's an anti-corruption sleuth and has embarrassed too many people.

As for being Hi-So, he's a Santi Asoke practitioner and lives on vegetables and water, eats once a day and sleeps on the floor.

Well there's an eye-opener, there was I, thinking he was coordinator of the Thai Patriots Network and lived entirely on a diet of extreme ultra-nationalism

[fab4]

As usual for a conspiracy theorists, after absence of evidence the next best thing to prove their pet theories is actual evidence that "appears" to go against the conspiracy.

So a Yellow Shirt being summoned by the courts is just another piece of their puzzle showing how the elites control the judiciary... or something.

It's more fun to read than a Von Daniken book.

The offences were committed in 2008. Getting the PAD activists to hear the charges took 5 years, the actual trial is another case all together. The rescheduled (about 3 times) trial is scheduled (now) to take place on December 15th 2014.

So, I'm sorry, your dismissal of a conspiracy is somewhat premature at this juncture.

Come back and tell us that there is no truth in the rumour of double standards when

1) all 100 odd of the accused PAD activists, including Sondhi, are in jail and

2) they have paid the Airport Authority the $17 million fine the Civil Court imposed back in 2011.

Edited July 3, 2014 by fab4

[AleG]

As usual for a conspiracy theorists, after absence of evidence the next best thing to prove their pet theories is actual evidence that "appears" to go against the conspiracy.

So a Yellow Shirt being summoned by the courts is just another piece of their puzzle showing how the elites control the judiciary... or something.

It's more fun to read than a Von Daniken book.

The offences were committed in 2008. Getting the PAD activists to hear the charges took 5 years, the actual trial is another case all together. The rescheduled (about 3 times) trial is scheduled (now) to take place on December 15th 2014.

So, I'm sorry, your dismissal of a conspiracy is somewhat premature at this juncture.

Come back and tell us that there is no truth in the rumour of double standards when

1) all 100 odd of the accused PAD activists, including Sondhi, are in jail and

2) they have paid the Airport Authority the $17 million fine the Civil Court imposed back in 2011.

The Thai judiciary is slow, period. For example TRT,PPP, PTP Snoh, I think, got away scott free from the Alpine Golf course case after the statute of limitations ran out.

Where you claiming a conspiracy then? No double standards and all that.

[ggold]

I agree, the red shirt apologists, turned sore losers, have consistently tried to argue that the good General will inevitably show favour towards one group over another. This provides further evidence of his impartiality and should result in quietening the likes of fabbie and Co.

Junta arrests invitees as of June 18th

Number of individuals summoned or arrested by affiliation = 511 summoned, 181 Arrested

Related to UDD / PTP = 373

Related to PDRC / Democrat Party = 48

Academics / Press / Activists = 158

that proves the UDD and PTP are the real trouble makers.

How could I argue with that logic? Still, as long as you're happy in happy land.

Thank you I am very happy in Thailand. I realised what you were trying to say. But you're statistics prove my point. I would also say that while I think the political system here is a complete joke, I will not be loosing any sleep over it.

Why should I give a flying intercourse over the political situation. As long as they don't start a civil war, I'm fine. You will have to accept that you're democratic views aren't worth sh*t here. Even thinking that real democracy will take hold is wrong. They have no idea of democracy you can see that nearly every day with the various news items.

My only real concern is the exchange rates.

[3NUMBAS]

one sided system in operation as usual ,reds wont be pleased at this

[oldsailor35]

To my knowledge Veera was not part of any leadership group during the airport seizures. He may have attended.

Veera's main problem is that, as a journalist, he's an anti-corruption sleuth and has embarrassed too many people.

As for being Hi-So, he's a Santi Asoke practitioner and lives on vegetables and water, eats once a day and sleeps on the floor.

GOOD! so jail is the best place for him then.

[Xangsamhua]

To my knowledge Veera was not part of any leadership group during the airport seizures. He may have attended.

Veera's main problem is that, as a journalist, he's an anti-corruption sleuth and has embarrassed too many people.

As for being Hi-So, he's a Santi Asoke practitioner and lives on vegetables and water, eats once a day and sleeps on the floor.

Well there's an eye-opener, there was I, thinking he was coordinator of the Thai Patriots Network and lived entirely on a diet of extreme ultra-nationalism

The Thai patriots network was a couple of years after the airport occupation. Santi Asoke and Veera took up the unfortunate nationalist cause at the time. They were also (partly? mainly?) concerned for the rights of the dispossessed landowners in the area who were disregarded by the government in the dispute over territory. My memory's a bit rusty over the details, sequence of events, etc.

Thai nationalism is unsavoury to those of us who have in mind the damage done by ultra-nationalism in other places, but the Thais like it - some more than others - but it's a widely shared emotion.

[whybother]

one sided system in operation as usual ,reds wont be pleased at this

One sided?? Did red shirt leaders not get bail?

... sent from my phone.

[Baerboxer]

Whoa whoa. ,

I refuse to acknowledge the charges yet I will testify in court proceedings.

By that statement and his future proposed action Vera has accepted the charges against him.

Hmmmm .....

Criminal terrorism for shutting down Thailand's main airport and causing untold mayhem. That sounds like a very serious charge.

Is he remanded in custody to await trail, as one would imagine befits the alleged perpetrator of such a serious offence? Noooooooooooo

Is he summonsed by the junta and locked up incommunicado in an army camp? Noooooooooooo

So where is he?

He later travelled to a Santi Asoke sanctuary in eastern Bangkok, where he was expected rest

While he walks free, I wonder how long we will have to wait for the trail?

What was that you were saying about impartiality?

Bail is granted here for murder, kidnapping and abusing children, manslaughter, and a whole raft of serious offences where often those accused decide to walk.

Classic example being the well known bail jumping convicted fugitive himself. Legs it to avoid prison. avoid more serious charges and tries to fiddle an amnesty or sit out the statute of limitations. Red bull boy is another example.

Nothing to do with impartiality, everything to do with a flawed legal process.

A flawed legal process and impartiality are the same thing. Impartiality is one of the basic tenets of justice.

Glad we agree that justice is not part of the Junta's calculus.

I think you need to look up the word impartial. It so not the same thing as flawed legal process. It may be a consequence or not.

Please don't put meanings onto my comments that have no basis in logic.