Israel is using a sledgehammer to crack nuts

[Ulysses G.]

Americans support Israel over the Palestinians by a huge margin. That is the least of their worries. 

[dexterm]

Americans support Israel over the Palestinians by a huge margin. That is the least of their worries. 

 

Yes AIPAC is a very powerful lobby and Israeli spin can make people believe black is white... they have even started referring to abandoning illegal Israeli colonies in the West Bank as “ethnic cleansing”...you steal Palestinian land, build a squattlement there, and if one day you have to leave as part of a peace agreement, so you make yourself the victim...incredible chutzpah eh.

 

Israeli apologists even have their own manual established by the Israel Project

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Project

having carefully conducted market research for the words that work on American audiences..don’t talk too much about religion, you might upset evangelical Christians, use the p-word as much as possible (peace).

 

Here’s an example from their manual

The five-step approach to talking about civilian casualties in Gaza:

1. Empathy: "All human life is precious. We understand that the loss of one innocent Palestinian life is every bit as tragic as the loss of an Israeli life."
2. Admission: "We admit that Israel isn't always successful at preventing civilian casualties..."
3. Effort: "We remain committed to doing everything in our power to preventing civilian casualties."
4. Examples: "Let me tell you how our armed forces are trained, tasked, and operate to ensure that Palestinian civilians remain safe."
5. Turn tables: "It is a tragedy that Iran-backed Hamas shoots rockets at our civilians while hiding in their own ... This causes tragic deaths on both sides."

For sure they don’t tell Americans how the Israeli air force murdered 34 US sailors and wounded 171 on Board the USS Liberty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

 

Or how they have repeatedly spied on US, their supposedly best friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

 

And how Israel has never sent a single medic even to help USA in its recent wars.

 

And the US taxpayer sends $$billions to support this back stabbing.

 

With friends like that who needs enemies.

 

One day Americans will figure it all out.

[Scott]

An off-topic, inflammatory post has been deleted.   You may express your opinion, but inflammatory remarks will be deleted.  

 

Stay on topic.

 

[Ulysses G.]

One day Americans will figure it all out.

 

They already have and they reject all your dishonest talking points and spin. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[uptheos]

[up-country_sinclair]

 

 Israel will stagnate if the EU imposed a boycott and Americans through social media one day discover what a monster their tax $$ are being used to support.

 

 

Due to the power of AIPAC, this is probably the only way that justice will prevail in Palestine. 
 

[kblaze]

 

One day Americans will figure it all out.

 

They already have and they reject all your dishonest talking points and spin. 

 

 

 

Do you think its spin that AIPAC is one the most powerful lobby groups?

 

http://www.businesspundit.com/10-of-the-biggest-lobbies-in-washington/

 

http://www.alternet.org/rss/breaking_news/599504/aipac%3A_powerful_us_lobby_on_pro-israel_mission

 

here's a quote from that latter link "They're the most sophisticated, effective lobby interest group in Washington, without a doubt," Aaron David Miller, an advisor to several US secretaries of state and now scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center, told AFP."

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[ggold]

 

 

 Israel will stagnate if the EU imposed a boycott and Americans through social media one day discover what a monster their tax $$ are being used to support.

 

 

Due to the power of AIPAC, this is probably the only way that justice will prevail in Palestine. 
 

 

 

And yet that ignores the fact that the Christian bible belt of America supports Israel 100%  The EU and America need Israeli technology. They won't be imposing any boycotts on Israel.

[dexterm]

 

 

 

 Israel will stagnate if the EU imposed a boycott and Americans through social media one day discover what a monster their tax $$ are being used to support.

 

 

Due to the power of AIPAC, this is probably the only way that justice will prevail in Palestine. 
 

 

 

And yet that ignores the fact that the Christian bible belt of America supports Israel 100%  The EU and America need Israeli technology. They won't be imposing any boycotts on Israel.

 

 

What set of religious nutters supporting another.

[ggold]

 

Americans support Israel over the Palestinians by a huge margin. That is the least of their worries. 

 

Yes AIPAC is a very powerful lobby and Israeli spin can make people believe black is white... they have even started referring to abandoning illegal Israeli colonies in the West Bank as “ethnic cleansing”...you steal Palestinian land, build a squattlement there, and if one day you have to leave as part of a peace agreement, so you make yourself the victim...incredible chutzpah eh.

 

Israeli apologists even have their own manual established by the Israel Project

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Project

having carefully conducted market research for the words that work on American audiences..don’t talk too much about religion, you might upset evangelical Christians, use the p-word as much as possible (peace).

 

Here’s an example from their manual

The five-step approach to talking about civilian casualties in Gaza:

1. Empathy: "All human life is precious. We understand that the loss of one innocent Palestinian life is every bit as tragic as the loss of an Israeli life."
2. Admission: "We admit that Israel isn't always successful at preventing civilian casualties..."
3. Effort: "We remain committed to doing everything in our power to preventing civilian casualties."
4. Examples: "Let me tell you how our armed forces are trained, tasked, and operate to ensure that Palestinian civilians remain safe."
5. Turn tables: "It is a tragedy that Iran-backed Hamas shoots rockets at our civilians while hiding in their own ... This causes tragic deaths on both sides."

For sure they don’t tell Americans how the Israeli air force murdered 34 US sailors and wounded 171 on Board the USS Liberty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

 

Or how they have repeatedly spied on US, their supposedly best friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

 

And how Israel has never sent a single medic even to help USA in its recent wars.

 

And the US taxpayer sends $$billions to support this back stabbing.

 

With friends like that who needs enemies.

 

One day Americans will figure it all out.

 

 

So what's you're problem with AIPAC? It seems you are just trying desperately to say something but can't find the words? As for this manual you mention. Does it say we must kill all Palestinians? the only good Palestinians are dead ones? 

 

OK so Hamas don't hide behind women and children. Happy!

 

And Israel would love nothing better than to kill all Palestinians. Would that be better for you? Gaza could be a blood bath if Israel were really carrying out something that resembles ethnic cleansing. 

 

 

And this must be the gem of all comment

 

And how Israel has never sent a single medic even to help USA in its recent wars.

 

Now lets see Israeli troops in Iraq, maybe Afganistan, how about Pakistan. No wait I missed out Somalia or even Darfur. Yes indeed America really needs Israeli help, militarily!

 

And as for spying on America, come on now Just how naive are you? What did Snowden say about America? who was spying on who. They all do it and they all know it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ggold]

 

 

 

 

 Israel will stagnate if the EU imposed a boycott and Americans through social media one day discover what a monster their tax $$ are being used to support.

 

 

Due to the power of AIPAC, this is probably the only way that justice will prevail in Palestine. 
 

 

 

And yet that ignores the fact that the Christian bible belt of America supports Israel 100%  The EU and America need Israeli technology. They won't be imposing any boycotts on Israel.

 

 

What set of religious nutters supporting another.

 

 

Ah yes I was forgetting you are an atheist! no morals and no argument. 

 

 

What set of religious nutters supporting another.

 

That is the best you can come up with?

 

[dexterm]

 

 

Israel has hired retweeters to spread their propaganda about the crackdown in Gaza and this is one of them.

 

What on earth have Colorado and New York got to do with the OP.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies along with inflammatory posts removed.  

[kblaze]

 

 

 

 Israel will stagnate if the EU imposed a boycott and Americans through social media one day discover what a monster their tax $$ are being used to support.

 

 

Due to the power of AIPAC, this is probably the only way that justice will prevail in Palestine. 
 

 

 

And yet that ignores the fact that the Christian bible belt of America supports Israel 100%  The EU and America need Israeli technology. They won't be imposing any boycotts on Israel.

 

 

You sure?

 

Here's in the EU...

http://unitedwithisrael.org/european-union-adopts-partial-boycott-of-israel/

 

And in the US...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.563875

[Pakboong]

I was hoping for a little more "outside the box" thinking. The last score I saw was 223 bodies to 1 body. There should be something like a ten run rule then call the game. I can imagine a boxing match where one of the fighters is down 223-1 and he actually wants to keep fighting.

 

These lopsided margins have been routine since Hamas took over Gaza in 2006 making me a bit suspicious. That's my nature anyway. The big-bad terror machine did not develop as expected. In fact, they were a complete failure. With scores like 223-1 and the ridiculous scores in Cast Lead and others, suggests to me that something is not on the up and up. Comes from many years working in the suspicion business. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

 

The best way to win an election is to control both sides. Happens all the time. The trouble with something like this is keeping a lid on it and often you get some of these lopsided numbers and you just can't fix it.

 

Israel clearly does not want casualties and they do not want to lose any of their aircraft. Just way too suspicious for me. But, I have had more than one screw loose for many years.

[Morch]

 

 

In a feeble attempt to get back on topic.  There are many mysteries surrounding these rocket attacks. Among my favorites is why the Palestinians can't seem to smuggle some kind of surface to air capability.  Apparently they are now trying to smuggle longer range missiles to reach Tel Aviv, why no SAM capability? The Iranians are often accused of using Palestinians for a Proxy war and smuggling into Gaza, why would they not smuggle in at least Shoulder fired SAMS of which  the Iranians manufacture 2 versions. They are not the most capable but they are reasonably effective against helicopters and low flying aircraft. The Iranians manufacture over a dozen different types which are not shoulder fired and why would they not want to test them against Israeli aircraft over Gaza. Seems a lot more practical than firing bottle rockets into the desert.

 

There aren't that many mysteries about rocket attacks. There are people who refuse to accept some facts, and insist on

simplified answers to complex issues.

 

The Palestinians do have some surface to air missiles, a couple were shot at IAF airplanes during the beginning of the 

current hostilities. The reason why they do not have more, or use them more often is that they are harder to get by, cost

more than rockets and take a wee bit more training to use properly. That's without taking into account the very intense

effort on Israel's side to specifically block this sort of thing. Also, in contrast with most rockets, SAMs are not something

that can be relatively easy to manufacture locally.

 

The Hezbollah, sponsored by Iran, does use them (and even more advanced means) in Lebanon against the IAF. This

could be chalked to better funding, being closer to the source both in terms of distance an ideology, and having better

training.

 

Not sure how they would be more practical than rockets, it like apples and oranges. And rockets are not fired into the

desert, they are fired on Israel. People live there.
 

 

No need to manufacture locally, the Iranians have many reasons to test these against against Israeli aircraft under true combat conditions.

 

As far as the practical, the Palestinians would have actual targets instead of the open desert. They clearly need to stop IAF attacks. If you are  going to smuggle, spend your energy smuggling something that you really need. There is little point in smuggling a long range missile that can  be easily knocked down by Iron Dome. With the SAM, the Iron Dome would not really come into play. There are other counter measures but  why not shoot at something you need to hit. The Palestinians are sitting ducks against the IAF, they need to be able to at least make them work a bit harder. Given that the Qassam rockets generates IAF targets, why not go after the aircraft instead of the open desert?

 

I have never really believed that the Iranians were that active with the smuggling into Gaza but there were war cries  a couple of years ago about the Iranian threat. The Iranians would however, love to test their air defense capability if they could get this capability into Gaza. The lack of SAMs being smuggled in by the Iranians tells us critical information regarding who is doing what in this particular conflict.

 

The Irainians have reverse engineered several and come up with  a few of their own. They would jump at the chance to deploy them over Gaza. There would be no cost to Gaza.

 

 

 

The Iranians are more active when it comes to funding, transferring technological know-how and providing some longer range rockets. Nevertheless, there were attempts to smuggle weapons from Iran to the Gaza Strip.

 

I think that over the points mentioned in my earlier post - there is another issue ought to be addressed, as per your last line, "There would be no cost to Gaza". Introduction of massive shoulder SAM use would actually make things worse for the local population. If the IAF would consider operating in Gaza Strip air space as more of a danger, mission profiles could be changed which might result in even more civilian casualties.

[Morch]

 

I will finish with a quote from a former Israeli PM, " If the arabs put down their guns today, tomorrow there would be peace. If Israel put down their guns today, tomorrow there would be no Israel".

 

It makes for a great soundbite, but unfortunately it's more like "If the arabs put down their guns today, tomorrow the Israelis will start building more settlements on arab land".

Which is what's happened in the past.

Israel don't want peace with the Palestinians, and especially don't want to go back to the '67 borders with that great lump of oil and gas offshore.

 

 

 

When did happen that the Arabs put down their guns, and Israel built more settlements on their lands?

 

And the gas fields in the Mediterranean Sea, what do these have to to with the 1967 borders?  Thought most of the developed

or under-development ones wouldn't be effected by borders changes (Leviathan and Tamar, that is).

 

[Morch]

 

 

 

That is a map of Mandate Palestine, under the administration of Great Britain by the League of Nations. It was never controlled by the Palestinian Arabs and never promised to them either. It is a fake map and it is ignorant to keep posting it as it has been discredited long ago. The Palestinian Arabs never controlled that land. A bunch of other people did.  
As far as Israel Israel annexing the West Bank to create one state with The Palestinian Arabs that live there becoming Israeli citizens, that will never happen - it would be suicide - so the scenario is completely ridiculous.

 
What right did other people have to give away land to strangers 1000s of miles away without asking the existing inhabitants first?

 

You keep trying to ignore the fact that the Jews were living there peacefully - they were the existing inhabitants too - and that the Arabs kept slaughtering them until they were forced to fight back. There would have been no need to separate the two peoples otherwise and both sides could have kept the land that they were living on.

However, none of that makes any difference now, the truth is that Israel has been a country for over 6 decades and that they are not going anywhere.

 

 

>>the truth is that Israel has been a country for over 6 decades and that they are not going anywhere.

 

..The PA and all the Arab countries at the Arab Peace Conference in 2007 have agreed to recognize Israel within its 1967 borders (throw in a few land swaps). Hamas has offered in the past an indefinite truce..they’d be outvoted anyway once they see the benefits of peace in the West Bank.

 

I agree..Israel is not going anywhere until they make their enemies their friends. Israel will stagnate if the EU imposed a boycott and Americans through social media one day discover what a monster their tax $$ are being used to support.

 

 

The Hamas offered a truce in the past, more than once. The usual offer made is for 10 years, though.  The offers always made it clear that they are not peace agreements, not a recognition of Israel, not a denouncement of the armed struggle - just a breather.  As the late Yassin said - the final victory will be left for future generations.

 

 

[Morch]

I was hoping for a little more "outside the box" thinking. The last score I saw was 223 bodies to 1 body. There should be something like a ten run rule then call the game. I can imagine a boxing match where one of the fighters is down 223-1 and he actually wants to keep fighting.

 

These lopsided margins have been routine since Hamas took over Gaza in 2006 making me a bit suspicious. That's my nature anyway. The big-bad terror machine did not develop as expected. In fact, they were a complete failure. With scores like 223-1 and the ridiculous scores in Cast Lead and others, suggests to me that something is not on the up and up. Comes from many years working in the suspicion business. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

 

The best way to win an election is to control both sides. Happens all the time. The trouble with something like this is keeping a lid on it and often you get some of these lopsided numbers and you just can't fix it.

 

Israel clearly does not want casualties and they do not want to lose any of their aircraft. Just way too suspicious for me. But, I have had more than one screw loose for many years.

 

I would not be too hasty in saying this works for the political benefit of Netanyahu (or did wonders for previous Israeli prime ministers). While Netanyahu might seem as the face of Israeli right wing politics, he actually represents what could be called main-stream right-wing, rather than extreme. It would probably them that would reap more electoral benefits from the ongoing violence, as far as the Israeli side goes.

[jacky54]

Since when were 1500 rockets fired at Israel 'nuts'?

[Cat ji]

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

 

^^ enslaved ?  Are you high? 

God help. oh, but "God helps those who help themselves." So, we need to do somwething about the "sicular", the brainwashed, they are even more of a problem than the religious cult followers.  Amazing, the link between Mohameddans and Left-liberals. Would be amusing if it weren't that innocent people are killed as a result of that foolishness.

[F430murci]

Based in latest reports of cease fire breach, Israel is playing a futile game of whack-a-mole.

[ggold]

 

I will finish with a quote from a former Israeli PM, " If the arabs put down their guns today, tomorrow there would be peace. If Israel put down their guns today, tomorrow there would be no Israel".

 

It makes for a great soundbite, but unfortunately it's more like "If the arabs put down their guns today, tomorrow the Israelis will start building more settlements on arab land".

Which is what's happened in the past.

Israel don't want peace with the Palestinians, and especially don't want to go back to the '67 borders with that great lump of oil and gas offshore.

 

 

 

You do realise that the map shows the territorial waters of Israel. and the map you use shows the border of Israel circa 1967!  So quite what has that to do with making peace?

 

It would really help if you knew what you were talking about, don't you think?
 

[seedy]

 

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

 

^^ enslaved ?  Are you high? 

God help. oh, but "God helps those who help themselves." So, we need to do somwething about the "sicular", the brainwashed, they are even more of a problem than the religious cult followers.  Amazing, the link between Mohameddans and Left-liberals. Would be amusing if it weren't that innocent people are killed as a result of that foolishness.

 

 

As I said in a previous post, closing borders and stopping trade and resupply can be construed as economic slavery.

 

Am I high ?  No, I do not like Bullies, and Israel is for sure a Bully.
 

[Ulysses G.]

As I said in a previous post, closing borders and stopping trade and resupply can be construed as economic slavery.

Of course, that did not happen until Hamas started smuggling weapon and rockets into Gaza and shooting them into Israel. They made their own bed.

[Jingthing]

 

One day Americans will figure it all out.

 

They already have and they reject all your dishonest talking points and spin. 

 

Indeed. 

A potential future president speaks:

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1U3UpXwUV4

Edited August 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[ABCer]

A silly article from a bunch of ignoramuses named "THE NATION" has been thrown to our TV members for a chewing on a weekend. 

Every non-entity between a beer and a run to the loo feels it imperative to comment and display his/hers/its incompetence.

 

All sorts of expert opinions - ranging from 'kill all the Jews' to 'kill all the Muslims' with the small details inbetween are given by our armchair philosophers, politicians and commandos.

 

"Israel is using sledgehammer to crack nuts" - really?  When did "THE NATION" last use the sledgehammer?  When did they last time have nuts? Did they have any luck or chance to crack one single nut from their South garden? Never!  So what makes them expert  'Nutcracker'?  Surely not their ability to dance to a given tune...

 

The situation is simple:

 

- Israel is under massive attack by Terrorists;

- These Terrorists are financed by the World outside Gaza, outside Middle East by not only Arabs, not only Muslims but by all 'people of good will', including UN and USA Gov't;

- These Terrorists are morally openly supported by demonstrations of 'people of good will' around the globe and by our glorious TV members in their wise comments;

- There are terrible losses in terms of human lives. On both sides. So far it appears that Israel is regretting it while the Terrorists do not.  They NEVER did!  They are using the numbers to heat up the 'people of      good will';

- Most of the 'good will people' are upset by the number imbalance (about 1300+ Terrorists against about 60 Jews); 

- Most of the 'good will people' are upset by the fact that Terrorist side is losing children, women and civilians;

- Most of the 'good will people' are upset by the fact that civilian targets (schools, mosques, hospitals, homes) on the Terrorists side are being destroyed in this war;

- Most of the 'good will people' are upset by the fact that Israel does not wish to stop (for12hrs, for 72hrs, forever? unconditionally? until Terrorists regroup?);

- Most of the 'good will people' are humanitarians. They care about Terrorist's kids, their women, their innocent civilians.  The Jewish kids, their women, their innocent civilians - well, they are just Jewish;

 

I have news for you my highly humanitarian TV members. If I were an Israeli - I would refuse to lay down and die. If I were an Israeli - I would refuse to stop trying to eradicate Terrorism. If I were an Israeli - I would reject your blind, lopsided humanity.  And I would ask "THE NATION" two questions only:

 

   "How many of women, children and innocent civilians of your own Nation have been killed by your own Terrorists?"

   "Where is your sledgehammer?".

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by ABCer

[joepublic]

 

 

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

 

^^ enslaved ?  Are you high? 

God help. oh, but "God helps those who help themselves." So, we need to do somwething about the "sicular", the brainwashed, they are even more of a problem than the religious cult followers.  Amazing, the link between Mohameddans and Left-liberals. Would be amusing if it weren't that innocent people are killed as a result of that foolishness.

 

 

As I said in a previous post, closing borders and stopping trade and resupply can be construed as economic slavery.

 

Am I high ?  No, I do not like Bullies, and Israel is for sure a Bully.
 

 

I think they are closer to Sadists than Bullies - there comes a point where the ROI on the turkey shoot that is Gaza is pointless - unless that ROI includes blood lust

[ggold]

 

 

 

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

 

^^ enslaved ?  Are you high? 

God help. oh, but "God helps those who help themselves." So, we need to do somwething about the "sicular", the brainwashed, they are even more of a problem than the religious cult followers.  Amazing, the link between Mohameddans and Left-liberals. Would be amusing if it weren't that innocent people are killed as a result of that foolishness.

 

 

As I said in a previous post, closing borders and stopping trade and resupply can be construed as economic slavery.

 

Am I high ?  No, I do not like Bullies, and Israel is for sure a Bully.
 

 

I think they are closer to Sadists than Bullies - there comes a point where the ROI on the turkey shoot that is Gaza is pointless - unless that ROI includes blood lust

 

 

http://www.veooz.com/news/BHLQ0XO.html

 

Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza cease-fire; Hamas keeps firing. Apologists for Hamas attribute the blood lust to the Israeli occupation and blockade. Those outside the region have the minimum obligation to expose the madness and speak the truth.