More rice missing from Thai warehouses

[Thai at Heart]

How do you KNOW there are still 18 Mn tons of rice in storage?

Have you been to all the warehouses and personally counted each sack?

Is your information from the previous PTP government who did an audit and found that there NO missing or mouldy rice?

Alternatively can you post the links that actually quote this figure.

I tend to believe the military auditing teams rather than any information from the previous PTP government.

Read the papers. How many tonnes of missing rice have they declared so far?

50k? 100k.

Around 100k. I think if they had found 1mn missing they would be trumpeting it from the highest mountains. I am amazed they even went back to check this place

So this is 50,000 sacks missing. 5,000 tonnes. Phew. I await them not finding this so called missing 3mn. Keep counting.

Its irrelevant anyway if 30% of what they count is mouldy .

Why you say that only 50.000 sacks are missing when in the OP it clearly says 100.000 ? Agenda somewhere ?

This is also not the first report of 100.000 sacks missing, I think so far including this one, they have found already close to 500.000 sacks missing altogether, en just the other day it was reported that have so far checked only 60% of the warehouses.

More to come for sure

I just reread it. Its 94,000 something missing. My mistake

But this is the same place they found the scaffolding a couple of weeks ago. So ok, that makes 94000*100 kg. Assuming its 100kg per sack that makes, 9,400 tonnes or9,400,000 kilograms.

So, 10,000 tonnes out of 18,000,000

This is a very very small storage. I have no agenda. I wonder whoever claimed that there are 3,000,000 TONNE missing had an agenda. Surely not. Where is the report of 500,000missing.

Do the maths again.

Its a piffling amount so far.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Basil B]

More warehouse with missing rice is really a no news story.

Just wait until they find some of the warehouse do not exist.

[animatic]

The Marketing Organisation for Farmers has earlier filed complaint with the police and has charged warehouse operator and contractor of theft.

They may want to aim a little higher if they want the real culprit.

What u think the warehouse owner has Yingluck on his speedial or something? Or her bank account details in his SCB phone app?

This was never about Shin clan getting cash in pocket, but to spread feudal payments around to grease the palms of the many they need to hold onto power. Power is the pay-off for Thaksin as clan headman, and control through graft created cash is the motus operandi. And so dutiful sister must fall on her sword socially for the 50 year plan. Why Thaksin still believes he can aim so high is a total mystery, but loss of face & money, plus thwarted goals, are powerful motivators for revenge and to raise status over all who have been above your station and used it against you.

Edited July 24, 2014 by animatic

[rubl]

Amused about the extremly intelligent comments of some THAIVISA posters

I am shure in your Country the PM or the President is going to Count

the stock of what ever is owned by the Government... :-) ..

I guess all comenting that khun Yingruck is responsible for the loss

in that rice story would say that Obama, Merkel, Cameron, Abbott

or who ever is responsible when there are a few Guns missed out

of the army stocks...

How happy I am in my Country things run different....

I think the money wasting activities of the self proclaimed dictators

costs much more for the tax payers...

Free TV Shows, payd Parties (where others not allowed to meet

with more then 5 people..) Events and Invitations to try to explain

foreign Country officials Thai "Democracy".

There will no Country with democratic standards tolerate such

instruments to bring "peace" to the People...

So, your post suggests that the NCPO still has some credit. I mean the Yingluck Administration cost the taxpayer 700++ billion for the RPPS only already

[rubl]

What strikes me is that the owner must have been pretty confident that nobody was going to look seriously at how much was missing because otherwise the loss was certainly going to show up eventually. Now why would that be ?.

Thaksin himself said 'A little loss is acceptable'. Maybe we didn't quite appreciate how that would transform into government policy. I smell a very big rat - maybe these mills were given assurances by Pheu-Thai that they would be safe to skim. This coup has been a real nuisance !.

I may have missed the occasion when Thaksin may have made the remark on "a little loss". I still remember this though

"“We do not just throw away the money,” Thaksin said. The program will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis, he said. “The domestic economy in Thailand accounts for only 30 percent of GDP growth but now is increasing because people have the purchasing power.”"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

[rubl]

Do the maths again.

Its a piffling amount so far.

Ah, but with 'no rice missing' as in 0 (i.e. ZERO), any amount indicated as being greater than zero gives an increase approaching infinity. Mathematically speaking that is.

On a more practical level any politician stating "nothing missing' only seems to confirm that something is missing indeed.

So now we wait for data like

- warehouse #1 - remaining storage according to admin - remaining actually found - other discrepancies - value remaining - value gained/lost

...

- warehouse #1800 or so ... ...

Any info on how many of those 1800++ warehouses have been checked and checked adequately?

[dcutman]

Do the maths again.

Its a piffling amount so far.

Ah, but with 'no rice missing' as in 0 (i.e. ZERO), any amount indicated as being greater than zero gives an increase approaching infinity. Mathematically speaking that is.

On a more practical level any politician stating "nothing missing' only seems to confirm that something is missing indeed.

So now we wait for data like

- warehouse #1 - remaining storage according to admin - remaining actually found - other discrepancies - value remaining - value gained/lost

...

- warehouse #1800 or so ... ...

Any info on how many of those 1800++ warehouses have been checked and checked adequately?

Apparently, if you live in Thailand long enough, one can justify a theft if the amount stolen was no as much as claimed.

At least that how I gather things reading post from T@H

[boomerangutang]

YL may not have made a dime off this but with every missing bag or bag of lower grade rice she will be held responsible for the management of the scam as the PM the bucks stops with her. Then again we will have to wait and see how hard they will want to come down on her for incompetence, remember she is being charged with lack of over sight of the program and not fixing it or stopping it when she was informed of problems.

A month less than 2 years ago, I recall the boss of bosses himself, Mr. Thaksin, opining in a Bkk Post article that the rice pledging program was fine, and should be kept going. Yingluck, last year, tried changing the program to pay farmers less, but caved in (from farmers' threats of protests) and kept the program going. I'm not excusing any of the culprits, but there is one puppetmaster who had the most control and conveyed most of his imperatives via telephone.

btw, people think the expression; 'the buck stops here' relates to dollars. But it actually came from the poker table. A buck knife was passed around, and placed near whomever was dealing.

[dru2]

I just reread it. Its 94,000 something missing. My mistake

But this is the same place they found the scaffolding a couple of weeks ago. So ok, that makes 94000*100 kg. Assuming its 100kg per sack that makes, 9,400 tonnes or9,400,000 kilograms.

So, 10,000 tonnes out of 18,000,000

This is a very very small storage. I have no agenda. I wonder whoever claimed that there are 3,000,000 TONNE missing had an agenda. Surely not. Where is the report of 500,000missing.

Do the maths again.

Its a piffling amount so far.

The only thing that is piffling is your ...continuing... apologia for the Thaksin clan.

[Tywais]

A derogatory post regarding the military and reply to it removed. Use more caution and sense when posting, treading on dangerous ground.

[northernjohn]

They went back to recheck the sane place.

But I thought there would be such richer pickings to find all over the place.

Shouldn't this be, more rice missing from warehouse they already checked?

No. They mean re-checked because the first check organized by the chairwoman of the rice scheme was only a PR plot to cover up the mounting losses until the PTP won another election. This time, they actually opened the doors, looked inside, and found what every warm blooded creature knew they would. Evidence of a scam of biblical proportions.

In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing.

That's not what I read, and let's be a little realistic here. Its not of biblical proportions. If only that were so.

There are still 18mn tonnes of rice in the warehouse and no one knows of how good a quality it all is.

It may say grade A on the bag, but only when it gets reopened and packaged with anyone really know.

Perspective here please. If there is 18mm tonnes there and there is only 2/3 of the bags that are supposed to be there that means they are missing 36mm tonnes of rice. I used your spelling as I was not sure of the spelling.

You are correct it is not Biblical proportions.

Also as you say we will never know what grade it is until the bags are opened.

How ever it does make one wonder when he considers that about a year ago the Ivory Coast said they would never buy any rice from Thailand again as 25% of what they got was no good. I believe Iraq and Iran said they would buy no more fromThailand either. No reason given. Believe there was later talk with Iran but no sale.

[northernjohn]

No. They mean re-checked because the first check organized by the chairwoman of the rice scheme was only a PR plot to cover up the mounting losses until the PTP won another election. This time, they actually opened the doors, looked inside, and found what every warm blooded creature knew they would. Evidence of a scam of biblical proportions.

In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing.

That's not what I read, and let's be a little realistic here. Its not of biblical proportions. If only that were so.

There are still 18mn tonnes of rice in the warehouse and no one knows of how good a quality it all is.

It may say grade A on the bag, but only when it gets reopened and packaged with anyone really know.

How do you KNOW there are still 18 Mn tons of rice in storage?

Have you been to all the warehouses and personally counted each sack?

Is your information from the previous PTP government who did an audit and found that there NO missing or mouldy rice?

Alternatively can you post the links that actually quote this figure.

I tend to believe the military auditing teams rather than any information from the previous PTP government.

Read the papers. How many tonnes of missing rice have they declared so far?

50k? 100k.

Around 100k. I think if they had found 1mn missing they would be trumpeting it from the highest mountains. I am amazed they even went back to check this place

So this is 50,000 sacks missing. 5,000 tonnes. Phew. I await them not finding this so called missing 3mn. Keep counting.

Its irrelevant anyway if 30% of what they count is mouldy .

You are talking like it was all the rice in Thailand.

Wrong

It was only one warehouse.

To compound the theft the PTP said they had already checked that warehouse and it was OK no shortage.

[Thai at Heart]

The Marketing Organisation for Farmers has earlier filed complaint with the police and has charged warehouse operator and contractor of theft.

They may want to aim a little higher if they want the real culprit.

What u think the warehouse owner has Yingluck on his speedial or something? Or her bank account details in his SCB phone app?

This was never about Shin clan getting cash in pocket, but to spread feudal payments around to grease the palms of the many they need to hold onto power. Power is the pay-off for Thaksin as clan headman, and control through graft created cash is the motus operandi. And so dutiful sister must fall on her sword socially for the 50 year plan. Why Thaksin still believes he can aim so high is a total mystery, but loss of face & money, plus thwarted goals, are powerful motivators for revenge and to raise status over all who have been above your station and used it against you.

I know it wasn't, but plenty of people on here seem to imagine Yingluck sitting counting her 100 bahts....

[selftaopath]

They went back to recheck the sane place.

But I thought there would be such richer pickings to find all over the place.

Shouldn't this be, more rice missing from warehouse they already checked?

No. They mean re-checked because the first check organized by the chairwoman of the rice scheme was only a PR plot to cover up the mounting losses until the PTP won another election. This time, they actually opened the doors, looked inside, and found what every warm blooded creature knew they would. Evidence of a scam of biblical proportions.

In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing.

That's not what I read, and let's be a little realistic here. Its not of biblical proportions. If only that were so.

There are still 18mn tonnes of rice in the warehouse and no one knows of how good a quality it all is.

It may say grade A on the bag, but only when it gets reopened and packaged with anyone really know.

LOL I doubt substandard quality rice went missing. So perhaps what remains is crap or it would also take a walk.

[Bigfarang1948]

Doubtful here....about 66% of rice missing from one warehouse, but only 5% overall. Like someone stated, when they actually open the doors and do an inventory with TRUSTWORTHY auditors I would bet all my money that percentage skyrockets,

Thailand has so many scams ans thieves it makes finding an honest govt ot private official hard to believe when they spout their statements

Farmers lose again

"In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing. Besides of the missing of the rice, officials also found scaffolding structure inside piles of thousands of rice sacks."

So is she gonna come back to face the music for this blatant scam?

[Ricardo]

You are talking like it was all the rice in Thailand.

Wrong

It was only one warehouse.

To compound the theft the PTP said they had already checked that warehouse and it was OK no shortage.

Which begs the question, how many other warehouses are there, where PTP claimed nothing-at-all-missing but which are actually short ?

Even after the military's quick-audit has been completed, it would not be surprising, if further cases of deliberate fraud were to emerge.

And then there's the rice-stocks, which turn out to be in unsellable-condition, and have to be written-off & disposed-of, at further cost.

And then the ones which, on the records as containing Hom Mali or good-quality rice, turn out to contain something of lesser-quality.

This shambles will not see a quick or final-accounting, anytime soon, IMO.

[selftaopath]

The reason the rice is "missing" is because it was never there in the first place.........

Very very possible, and so it might be that many "poor rice farmers" were involved in rice scam also.

[Cake Monster]

Maybe all the reports of " missing rice " and insect infested rice Etc, are a spin to make the world commodities market think Thailand really doesnt have as much rice stored / in stock as previously published.( 17 + Million tons - Estimated )

All this ( if it were spin ) would increase the price of the rice which has hit the floor since the Thais published the fact they were going to release 500,000 tons / month onto the market.

Just my two pennies worth

[Ricardo]

Maybe all the reports of " missing rice " and insect infested rice Etc, are a spin to make the world commodities market think Thailand really doesnt have as much rice stored / in stock as previously published.( 17 + Million tons - Estimated )

All this ( if it were spin ) would increase the price of the rice which has hit the floor since the Thais published the fact they were going to release 500,000 tons / month onto the market.

Just my two pennies worth

This is the Baldrick/Blackadder school of economic-planing, I believe ?

"I have a cunning plan, master !", and smirk !

Apropos-of-which, wouldn't it be nice, if the military's audit-figures were to split-out the age-by-year of rice-stocks, so that the markets could then see how effective PTP/PWO's stock-rotation has been ? Or is that best kept secret, on the spurious grounds of commercial-confidentiality/national-interest ?

[longway]

How do you KNOW there are still 18 Mn tons of rice in storage?

Have you been to all the warehouses and personally counted each sack?

Is your information from the previous PTP government who did an audit and found that there NO missing or mouldy rice?

Alternatively can you post the links that actually quote this figure.

I tend to believe the military auditing teams rather than any information from the previous PTP government.

Read the papers. How many tonnes of missing rice have they declared so far?

50k? 100k.

Around 100k. I think if they had found 1mn missing they would be trumpeting it from the highest mountains. I am amazed they even went back to check this place

So this is 50,000 sacks missing. 5,000 tonnes. Phew. I await them not finding this so called missing 3mn. Keep counting.

Its irrelevant anyway if 30% of what they count is mouldy .

The article claims 5% missing so far. It's not clear to me whether that's 5% of the total rice expected or 5% of the rice that's been checked so far. Either way, it looks like something around 1 million tons (or more) might be missing by the time they finish the inspection. As you note, there is also the need to account for mismatches in quality (ie jasmine vs all broken rice) and ruined/mouldy rice.

They can't count the mismatches and grades unless it is completely damaged. Too many stacks, too much volume. Too much deterioration.

The 5% is the allowed discrepancy before the prosecute. Just imagine that. It shows clearly that to accurately count the stacks quickly is impossible. Millions upon millions of sacks.

5% discrepancy would actuallly mean either +-2.5% - and if it is an unbiased discrepancy then overall over the 1800 warehouses the discrepancies would cancel out and you should arrive at a figure pretty close to the amount of rice supposedly bought. However if all the 'discrepancies' are around -5% or more then you are talking about corruption (in this aspect of the rice scam alone) of biblical proportions.

5% of 18,000,000 = (900,000/0.66)*15,000 (to convert to price paid per tonne of unmilled paddy) = 20.5 billion baht nicked.

And there is so much scope for corruption in every aspect of this scam.

then once you account for the corruption then the losses through to incompetence kick in and you have a scam that is legendary even by thai standards.

Edited July 25, 2014 by longway

[Thai at Heart]

You are talking like it was all the rice in Thailand.

Wrong

It was only one warehouse.

To compound the theft the PTP said they had already checked that warehouse and it was OK no shortage.

Which begs the question, how many other warehouses are there, where PTP claimed nothing-at-all-missing but which are actually short ?

Even after the military's quick-audit has been completed, it would not be surprising, if further cases of deliberate fraud were to emerge.

And then there's the rice-stocks, which turn out to be in unsellable-condition, and have to be written-off & disposed-of, at further cost.

And then the ones which, on the records as containing Hom Mali or good-quality rice, turn out to contain something of lesser-quality.

This shambles will not see a quick or final-accounting, anytime soon, IMO.

They stated 1800 warehouses. This is one where someone has nicked a load of rice. They have claimed that if the discrepancy is 5%, they won't do anything.

That in itself is astonishing. They've been counting now for what? One month, and other than damaged rice (very sad), this is the one warehouse with a significant amount of missing rice.

Let's wait for the final figures, but I don't think it is going to be 3mn tonnes missing, unless there is one province where all the stock is missing.

[wabothai]

it is utterly disgusting and it angers me, to see on the photo how the thugs have used scaffolds to hide their discusting crime.

[longway]

I don't think anyone would ever expect there to be a +5% in a warehouse storage situation.

Moving stuff costs money, so having extra would be quite unusual. The fact that they have a 5% leeway is because physically counting the damn stacks is so difficult.

Not in this scam for sure.

however if counting is so difficult that a 5% leeway is allowable, then you would expect roughly equal amounts of over and under esitmation in the counts; all things being equal.

However missing rice is just the tip of the 'riceberg' in this scam.

The true cost of the scam can be roughly estimated. Money spent in the region of 1 trillion baht.

Benefits = amount of extra profit that went into the pockets of thai farmers (leave aside that a majority of this extra profit went into the pockets of the richest famers). PT in its 3 long years never made any effort to actually estimate this figure, as it was pretty unimportnat given real goal of milking as much money as possible from the scam. Lets overestimate it at about 3,000 baht extra profit per tonne of unmilled paddy. Over 3 years there was about 40 million onnes of paddy peldged = 120 bllion baht benefit

That leaves about 880 billion baht to be accounted for (that the PT made very excuse under the sun not to even attempt)

I believe of that they managed to scrounge up 150 billion baht.

Now they are left with at most 18 million tonnes of milled rice at current rate the maximum value is 220 bllion, but probably get about 80% of that = 180 billion

That leaves about 550 billion wasted in poor design of the pledging scam, incompetence and corruption. I could be aout +/- 10-20% but this is a good ballpark estimation.

its not worth defending on any level.

Whover dreamt up the scam needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't think anyone would ever expect there to be a +5% in a warehouse storage situation.

Moving stuff costs money, so having extra would be quite unusual. The fact that they have a 5% leeway is because physically counting the damn stacks is so difficult.

Not in this scam for sure.

however if counting is so difficult that a 5% leeway is allowable, then you would expect roughly equal amounts of over and under esitmation in the counts; all things being equal.

However missing rice is just the tip of the 'riceberg' in this scam.

The true cost of the scam can be roughly estimated. Money spent in the region of 1 trillion baht.

Benefits = amount of extra profit that went into the pockets of thai farmers (leave aside that a majority of this extra profit went into the pockets of the richest famers). PT in its 3 long years never made any effort to actually estimate this figure, as it was pretty unimportnat given real goal of milking as much money as possible from the scam. Lets overestimate it at about 3,000 baht extra profit per tonne of unmilled paddy. Over 3 years there was about 40 million onnes of paddy peldged = 120 bllion baht benefit

That leaves about 880 billion baht to be accounted for (that the PT made very excuse under the sun not to even attempt)

I believe of that they managed to scrounge up 150 billion baht.

Now they are left with at most 18 million tonnes of milled rice at current rate the maximum value is 220 bllion, but probably get about 80% of that = 180 billion

That leaves about 550 billion wasted in poor design of the pledging scam, incompetence and corruption. I could be aout +/- 10-20% but this is a good ballpark estimation.

its not worth defending on any level.

Whover dreamt up the scam needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

You are forgetting the very obvious point that they bought it for say 12,000 per tonne, and processed and stored it so that it is now worth say 25000, but a sale price of between 10000 and 15000.

There is your loss

[longway]

I don't think anyone would ever expect there to be a +5% in a warehouse storage situation.

Moving stuff costs money, so having extra would be quite unusual. The fact that they have a 5% leeway is because physically counting the damn stacks is so difficult.

Not in this scam for sure.

however if counting is so difficult that a 5% leeway is allowable, then you would expect roughly equal amounts of over and under esitmation in the counts; all things being equal.

However missing rice is just the tip of the 'riceberg' in this scam.

The true cost of the scam can be roughly estimated. Money spent in the region of 1 trillion baht.

Benefits = amount of extra profit that went into the pockets of thai farmers (leave aside that a majority of this extra profit went into the pockets of the richest famers). PT in its 3 long years never made any effort to actually estimate this figure, as it was pretty unimportnat given real goal of milking as much money as possible from the scam. Lets overestimate it at about 3,000 baht extra profit per tonne of unmilled paddy. Over 3 years there was about 40 million onnes of paddy peldged = 120 bllion baht benefit

That leaves about 880 billion baht to be accounted for (that the PT made very excuse under the sun not to even attempt)

I believe of that they managed to scrounge up 150 billion baht.

Now they are left with at most 18 million tonnes of milled rice at current rate the maximum value is 220 bllion, but probably get about 80% of that = 180 billion

That leaves about 550 billion wasted in poor design of the pledging scam, incompetence and corruption. I could be aout +/- 10-20% but this is a good ballpark estimation.

its not worth defending on any level.

Whover dreamt up the scam needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

You are forgetting the very obvious point that they bought it for say 12,000 per tonne, and processed and stored it so that it is now worth say 25000, but a sale price of between 10000 and 15000.

There is your loss

Ive not forgotten it

Now they are left with at most 18 million tonnes of milled rice at current rate the maximum value is 220 bllion, but probably get about 80% of that = 180 billion

What you have forgotten is what they spent about1 trillion. BTW of that trillion the amount actually spent on buying the rice is 40 million * 15,000 = 600 bllion ( and btw though they spent 15,000 per tonne of unmilled paddy the average price the farmer received by all accounts 12,000 baht per tonne)

850 billion baht spent (1 trillion minus 150 billion returned to rice scam fund) spent and only 600 billion baht of paddy recieved.

Its a scam, face it.

Edited July 25, 2014 by longway

[billd766]

How do you KNOW there are still 18 Mn tons of rice in storage?

Have you been to all the warehouses and personally counted each sack?

Is your information from the previous PTP government who did an audit and found that there NO missing or mouldy rice?

Alternatively can you post the links that actually quote this figure.

I tend to believe the military auditing teams rather than any information from the previous PTP government.

Read the papers. How many tonnes of missing rice have they declared so far?

50k? 100k.

Around 100k. I think if they had found 1mn missing they would be trumpeting it from the highest mountains. I am amazed they even went back to check this place

So this is 50,000 sacks missing. 5,000 tonnes. Phew. I await them not finding this so called missing 3mn. Keep counting.

Its irrelevant anyway if 30% of what they count is mouldy .

Why you say that only 50.000 sacks are missing when in the OP it clearly says 100.000 ? Agenda somewhere ?

This is also not the first report of 100.000 sacks missing, I think so far including this one, they have found already close to 500.000 sacks missing altogether, en just the other day it was reported that have so far checked only 60% of the warehouses.

More to come for sure

I just reread it. Its 94,000 something missing. My mistake

But this is the same place they found the scaffolding a couple of weeks ago. So ok, that makes 94000*100 kg. Assuming its 100kg per sack that makes, 9,400 tonnes or9,400,000 kilograms.

So, 10,000 tonnes out of 18,000,000

This is a very very small storage. I have no agenda. I wonder whoever claimed that there are 3,000,000 TONNE missing had an agenda. Surely not. Where is the report of 500,000missing.

Do the maths again.

Its a piffling amount so far.

Where did you get the figure of 18,000,000 tons of rice is in storage from? Can you please post a link?

[billd766]

I don't think anyone would ever expect there to be a +5% in a warehouse storage situation.

Moving stuff costs money, so having extra would be quite unusual. The fact that they have a 5% leeway is because physically counting the damn stacks is so difficult.

Not in this scam for sure.

however if counting is so difficult that a 5% leeway is allowable, then you would expect roughly equal amounts of over and under esitmation in the counts; all things being equal.

However missing rice is just the tip of the 'riceberg' in this scam.

The true cost of the scam can be roughly estimated. Money spent in the region of 1 trillion baht.

Benefits = amount of extra profit that went into the pockets of thai farmers (leave aside that a majority of this extra profit went into the pockets of the richest famers). PT in its 3 long years never made any effort to actually estimate this figure, as it was pretty unimportnat given real goal of milking as much money as possible from the scam. Lets overestimate it at about 3,000 baht extra profit per tonne of unmilled paddy. Over 3 years there was about 40 million onnes of paddy peldged = 120 bllion baht benefit

That leaves about 880 billion baht to be accounted for (that the PT made very excuse under the sun not to even attempt)

I believe of that they managed to scrounge up 150 billion baht.

Now they are left with at most 18 million tonnes of milled rice at current rate the maximum value is 220 bllion, but probably get about 80% of that = 180 billion

That leaves about 550 billion wasted in poor design of the pledging scam, incompetence and corruption. I could be aout +/- 10-20% but this is a good ballpark estimation.

its not worth defending on any level.

Whover dreamt up the scam needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

You are forgetting the very obvious point that they bought it for say 12,000 per tonne, and processed and stored it so that it is now worth say 25000, but a sale price of between 10000 and 15000.

There is your loss

Not necessarily correct that the government paid 12,000 baht per ton. The MILLERS may have paid that but I bet they charged the government the full price of 15,000 baht when they sold it on.

[Old Man River]

I don't think anyone would ever expect there to be a +5% in a warehouse storage situation.

Moving stuff costs money, so having extra would be quite unusual. The fact that they have a 5% leeway is because physically counting the damn stacks is so difficult.

Not in this scam for sure.

however if counting is so difficult that a 5% leeway is allowable, then you would expect roughly equal amounts of over and under esitmation in the counts; all things being equal.

However missing rice is just the tip of the 'riceberg' in this scam.

The true cost of the scam can be roughly estimated. Money spent in the region of 1 trillion baht.

Benefits = amount of extra profit that went into the pockets of thai farmers (leave aside that a majority of this extra profit went into the pockets of the richest famers). PT in its 3 long years never made any effort to actually estimate this figure, as it was pretty unimportnat given real goal of milking as much money as possible from the scam. Lets overestimate it at about 3,000 baht extra profit per tonne of unmilled paddy. Over 3 years there was about 40 million onnes of paddy peldged = 120 bllion baht benefit

That leaves about 880 billion baht to be accounted for (that the PT made very excuse under the sun not to even attempt)

I believe of that they managed to scrounge up 150 billion baht.

Now they are left with at most 18 million tonnes of milled rice at current rate the maximum value is 220 bllion, but probably get about 80% of that = 180 billion

That leaves about 550 billion wasted in poor design of the pledging scam, incompetence and corruption. I could be aout +/- 10-20% but this is a good ballpark estimation.

its not worth defending on any level.

Whover dreamt up the scam needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

It does look like they never expected anyone to check, and without the coup it appears that is exactly what would have been the case.

Paying the farmers was separate and floating bonds for the cash and using some of the allocated budged from other projects could have taken care of that, in time.

Without the coup, they would have got away with this.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

I don't think anyone would ever expect there to be a +5% in a warehouse storage situation.

Moving stuff costs money, so having extra would be quite unusual. The fact that they have a 5% leeway is because physically counting the damn stacks is so difficult.

Not in this scam for sure.

however if counting is so difficult that a 5% leeway is allowable, then you would expect roughly equal amounts of over and under esitmation in the counts; all things being equal.

However missing rice is just the tip of the 'riceberg' in this scam.

The true cost of the scam can be roughly estimated. Money spent in the region of 1 trillion baht.

Benefits = amount of extra profit that went into the pockets of thai farmers (leave aside that a majority of this extra profit went into the pockets of the richest famers). PT in its 3 long years never made any effort to actually estimate this figure, as it was pretty unimportnat given real goal of milking as much money as possible from the scam. Lets overestimate it at about 3,000 baht extra profit per tonne of unmilled paddy. Over 3 years there was about 40 million onnes of paddy peldged = 120 bllion baht benefit

That leaves about 880 billion baht to be accounted for (that the PT made very excuse under the sun not to even attempt)

I believe of that they managed to scrounge up 150 billion baht.

Now they are left with at most 18 million tonnes of milled rice at current rate the maximum value is 220 bllion, but probably get about 80% of that = 180 billion

That leaves about 550 billion wasted in poor design of the pledging scam, incompetence and corruption. I could be aout +/- 10-20% but this is a good ballpark estimation.

its not worth defending on any level.

Whover dreamt up the scam needs to be put up against a wall and shot.

You are forgetting the very obvious point that they bought it for say 12,000 per tonne, and processed and stored it so that it is now worth say 25000, but a sale price of between 10000 and 15000.

There is your loss

Not necessarily correct that the government paid 12,000 baht per ton. The MILLERS may have paid that but I bet they charged the government the full price of 15,000 baht when they sold it on.

That was the price to the farmer from the govt depending on quality and moisture. Some farmers sold to millers,most sold to the govt.

[belg]

the biggest SCAM in thai history, or just for the last governement ?