webfact Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta prints front-page apology for MH17 disaster in DutchTHE left-leaning Novaya Gazeta Russian newspaper has published a highly provocative apology — written in Dutch and splashed across its front page today.The paper has deviated from the official line coming out of the Kremlin, by attributing the source of the attack on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 at the hands of the Russian separatists.“Forgive Us, Netherlands’’ was the bold headline above a sombre photograph of the convoy of hearses that transported the first of the bodies across The Netherlands from Eindhoven to Hilversum for forensic analysis.http://www.news.com.au/world/russian-newspaper-novaya-gazeta-prints-frontpage-apology-for-mh17-disaster-in-dutch/story-fndir2ev-1227001958997-- News.com.au 2014-07-25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JetsetBkk Posted July 25, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2014 That'll p1ss off Putin. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Kinda confirms what most have been saying. Along with their recent actions on the border. Hardly a pull back: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/24/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijit Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 its a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilDrSomkid Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 its a start. But VERY far from sufficient. It is time Mark Rutte and the country gets seriously pissed at Russia and holds them to their responsibility in this mass murder. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Triglav Posted July 25, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Has anyone bothered to read the paper? The article goes to say that event is tragic no matter how it happened, and the article on the first page has their reporter interviewing locals, all of whom are sure it was Ukrainian military. Ukrainian military has also admitted an "accidental" Buk launch during training excersise, but of course that isn't worth reporting. Edited July 25, 2014 by Triglav 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiu-Jitsu Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Has anyone bothered to read the paper? The article goes to say that event is tragic no matter how it happened, and the article on the first page has their reporter interviewing locals, all of whom are sure it was Ukrainian military. Ukrainian military has also admitted an "accidental" Buk launch during training excersise, but of course that isn't worth reporting. When did they admit this? In 2001?? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triglav Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Has anyone bothered to read the paper? The article goes to say that event is tragic no matter how it happened, and the article on the first page has their reporter interviewing locals, all of whom are sure it was Ukrainian military. Ukrainian military has also admitted an "accidental" Buk launch during training excersise, but of course that isn't worth reporting. When did they admit this? In 2001?? Today, and I'm obviously talking about MH17. They still haven't taken responsibility for the '01 shooting, though for all practical purposes Ukrainian guilt is proven. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Has anyone bothered to read the paper? The article goes to say that event is tragic no matter how it happened, and the article on the first page has their reporter interviewing locals, all of whom are sure it was Ukrainian military. Ukrainian military has also admitted an "accidental" Buk launch during training excersise, but of course that isn't worth reporting. When did they admit this? In 2001?? Today, and I'm obviously talking about MH17. They still haven't taken responsibility for the '01 shooting, though for all practical purposes Ukrainian guilt is proven. This is not true. There was no accidental BUK launch by Ukraine. It's a lie published by the Russian media. Show a link to a credible news source and then we can discuss this. Otherwise, it's right up there with the other lies they've published. http://time.com/3014822/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-rt-russian-television/ In the aftermath of the crash last week, the RT machine kicked into overdrive, churning out a steady stream of strange reports. In an effort to implicitly assign blame on the Ukrainians, it noted the proximity of Putin’s own plane. It quoted a Russian defense ministry source asking why a Ukrainian air force jet was detected nearby. And it quoted another anonymous Russian official, who volunteered the juicy claim that a Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile was operational in the vicinity at the time of the incident. This is how RT works, explains Firth: by arranging facts to fit a fantasy. “What they do is a very smart, slick way of manipulating reality,” she says. “In Ukraine, you’re taking a very small part of a much wider story, totally omitted the context of the story, and so what you wind up with on air is outright misinformation.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elefteros Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 oh yes, a training mission with a real loaded missile? awesome... another version by russian media was that mh17 was loaded with dead bodies and it was a set up by CIA... probably they switch from vodka to something more creative and powerfull.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran2698 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Has anyone bothered to read the paper? The article goes to say that event is tragic no matter how it happened, and the article on the first page has their reporter interviewing locals, all of whom are sure it was Ukrainian military. Ukrainian military has also admitted an "accidental" Buk launch during training excersise, but of course that isn't worth reporting. If the Russian government says the Ukrainians have admitted it then it must be true? hahahahhahahahhahahha By the way, it's not that it isn't worth reporting that news, it is that it isn't credible because it was in RIA which is a Russian government ran news paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umbanda Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think that what happened with MH17 is a tragedy, but I also believe that was a mistake. I do not believe that a soldier will shoot down a passenger plane in porpouse. The main responsability of this event is war, and Ukrania was in fault flying military planes in an area under fire, and not advicing commercial airlines to divert its planes. A terrorist will do it....and planes still flying..and low...over conflicts areas. Another tragedy at any time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 That'll p1ss off Putin. This newspaper has certainly annoyed some people as a number of their journalists have been murdered since publication commenced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think that what happened with MH17 is a tragedy, but I also believe that was a mistake. I do not believe that a soldier will shoot down a passenger plane in porpouse. The main responsability of this event is war, and Ukrania was in fault flying military planes in an area under fire, and not advicing commercial airlines to divert its planes. A terrorist will do it....and planes still flying..and low...over conflicts areas. Another tragedy at any time.... FL320 is not low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triglav Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) This is not true. There was no accidental BUK launch by Ukraine. It's a lie published by the Russian media. Show a link to a credible news source and then we can discuss this. Otherwise, it's right up there with the other lies they've published. http://time.com/3014822/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-rt-russian-television/ You demand a credible source but present a shit-slinging article by Time regarding a different news agency. Or do you truly consider this link and the link in OP to come from a credible source? There's a very limited number of sources for factual information on this this tragedy - the IATA investigation (has just begun), the recordings and/or personnel of Ukrainian air traffic control (has been kept under wraps so far), Russian and US military surveillance (Russia published some, US insists that they have information but refuses to disclose it), and whoever personally did the deed, either under order or by accident (unlikely to be identified or found ever). You'll notice a pattern here - most sources that may have real information are silent. The investigation into flight recorders has just begun. Yet propaganda and disinformation machine kicked into high gear not an hour after the plane was downed. So yeah, show me an actual credible source for anything published regarding the event, and then we can discuss what publications by Russian and US media were lies. Edited July 26, 2014 by Scott 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rwhoov Posted July 26, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2014 And the Russian members here still defending Mother Russia and their leader and trying to blame the Ukraine instead. Might I remind them that it was their country that armed these so-called separatists in retaliation for the Ukraine not signing an economic treaty with Russia. The blood is on their hands. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcrglobal Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The main responsability of this event is war, Yes, and which country has actively invaded another, taken soveriegn territory, and funded, armed (And staffed an armed insurgency? If, as you posit, the main responsibility of this event is war, then Putin is 100% unquestionably culpable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 They might as well have printed "Yes we did it, now F*** O**" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykbanlor Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Seems to me that these days we can't rely on any media sources when such political stakes are so high. Until I hear some credible and doubtless proof one way or the other I'll hold off speculating 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Don't be fooled by western mainstream media. The Americans and their allies are pushing for war(as usual) http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/25/russia-bashing-hatred-hysteria-and-humbug/ LOL. Excellent source of info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CounterPunch In 2003, The Observer described the CounterPunch website as a "popular political sources in America, with a keen following in Washington".[73] Other sources have variously described CounterPunch as a "left-wing",[2][3][4] "extreme" or "radical"[74][75] a "political newsletter",[76] and a "muckraking newsletter".[77] The Anti-Defamation League in 2007 described CounterPunch as an "anti-Zionist radical left newsletter".[78] The pro-Israel media watchdog group Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) in 2007 described CounterPunch.org as an "extremist anti-Israel web site".[79] In 2004, Max Boot described CounterPunch as an "extreme" "conspiracy-mongering website", citing a 2003 article by Dave Lindorff comparing George W. Bush to Hitler.[74][80] The same article was also referred to by James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal as similarly permitting the dismissal of CounterPunch ("an outfit whose staple is stuff comparing Bush to Hitler"). Lindorff has defended his article against this characterisation.[81] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 This is not true. There was no accidental BUK launch by Ukraine. It's a lie published by the Russian media. Show a link to a credible news source and then we can discuss this. Otherwise, it's right up there with the other lies they've published. http://time.com/3014822/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-rt-russian-television/ You demand a credible source but present a shit-slinging article by Time regarding a different news agency. Or do you truly consider this link and the link in OP to come from a credible source? There's a very limited number of sources for factual information on this this tragedy - the IATA investigation (has just begun), the recordings and/or personnel of Ukrainian air traffic control (has been kept under wraps so far), Russian and US military surveillance (Russia published some, US insists that they have information but refuses to disclose it), and whoever personally did the deed, either under order or by accident (unlikely to be identified or found ever). You'll notice a pattern here - most sources that may have real information are silent. The investigation into flight recorders has just begun. Yet propaganda and disinformation machine kicked into high gear not an hour after the plane was downed. So yeah, show me an actual credible source for anything published regarding the event, and then we can discuss what publications by Russian and US media were lies. Actually, the US has already said they detected the radar lock and missile launch. And it's widely known and reported how that was done. And they know exactly where the launch took place. No recordings are needed for this. What they haven't said is who actually pushed the trigger. You need a confirmation from somebody there. The current "suspects" are the rebels or the Russians. Can't be Ukrainians as it's in rebel held territory. The theory that it was a Ukraine military person who did this has been ruled out. No way they could have fought their way to the launch site, inside rebel held territory, and then fought their way out. Impossible. The IATA investigation is already in shambles due to the mis-management of the crash site and inability of investigators to have free access to the site. As was reported today, they are having to wear bullet proof vests due to the issues there. Impossible to do a proper investigation under these circumstances. And much of the evidence has been moved or tampered with. This is an interesting read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28468858 We have watched cranes lift plane parts and move them around, as bodies were pulled out and pieces of aircraft re-arranged. Many journalists and international observers witnessed how pro-Russian rebels cut into plane parts with diesel saws. Was it incompetence or something more sinister? We still don't know. We also don't know what evidence may have been lost, or how many bodies are still missing in Ukraine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Flint Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Stick your apologies where the sun dont shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Flint Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Don't be fooled by western mainstream media. The Americans and their allies are pushing for war(as usual) http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/25/russia-bashing-hatred-hysteria-and-humbug/ Friends with Obama are you???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think that what happened with MH17 is a tragedy, but I also believe that was a mistake. I do not believe that a soldier will shoot down a passenger plane in porpouse. The main responsability of this event is war, and Ukrania was in fault flying military planes in an area under fire, and not advicing commercial airlines to divert its planes. A terrorist will do it....and planes still flying..and low...over conflicts areas. Another tragedy at any time.... FL320 is not low. No it is not it is about 30000ft above the ground. Every day planes of many airlines fly over Afhghanistan at that level and terrain there is up to 20000 feet so they fly just 12000 feet above the ground. slight problem there I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triglav Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Actually, the US has already said they detected the radar lock and missile launch. And it's widely known and reported how that was done. And they know exactly where the launch took place. No recordings are needed for this. I beg to differ, factual information is precisely what is needed for this. Because Otherwise, it's right up there with the other lies they've published. The current "suspects" are the rebels or the Russians. Says who? Can't be Ukrainians as it's in rebel held territory. The theory that it was a Ukraine military person who did this has been ruled out. No way they could have fought their way to the launch site, inside rebel held territory, and then fought their way out. Impossible. Again, ruled out by whom? "Rebel held territory" is nebulous at best, there are no clear demarcation zones or controlled borders. By your own logic, since the presumed launch occurred from rebel territory, Russia is physically unable to engage anyone there, as the destruction occurred deep in Ukrainian territory. If there was ANY factual evidence of rebels possessing and firing a Buk complex, I expect we'd have seen it from the US or Ukraine on day 1. No such evidence has been produced. Ukrainian forces are known to have SAMs in the area (as presented in Russian defence ministry briefing), rebels are rumored to have a single captured Buk launcher (without accompanying radar/command/supply vehicles) that Ukrainian army claimed was inoperable, there is no evidence that any Buk/S300 launchers were transferred from Russian to the Ukrainian territory. Sorry, ultimately this isn't a serious level of discourse, you clearly have arrived to a conclusion and are only interested in any factual evidence if it supports you point of view; something, amusingly, Time article you cited was busy bashing RT for. My initial point made in this thread still stands - the news article in OP is misrepresenting information and counting on readers to be unwilling to fact-check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 They did it, because the tiny man in the Kremlin would not. He was more than likely directly responsible for the murder of almost 300 people. If it had not been for his expansionist ambitions, Russia would not have been arming, and financing these violent clowns. Will he ever admit his guilt? Does he ever? He has been deflecting blame ever since he was a madman murderer in the KGB. Now he is a madman leader of the Russians. The only good thing to come out of all of this is that this creton has been exposed, and most of the free thinking world (Russia excepted) now knows the monster King Vlad really is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Tiger Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The western world is crying out for someone to be held responsible. Putin denies all responsibility. Then this guy pops up – “I was born in Moscow I was never a member of the Russian intelligence services” – the self styled leader of the separatists and self declared prime minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Alexander Boradai. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10874612/Ukraines-forces-will-be-driven-from-Donetsk-vows-new-prime-minister.html Now we have the newspaper article from Russia attributing responsibility for the missile attack on the separatists. Fall guy? Bet it won’t be Putin. Mr Boradai’s political ambitions may turn out to be short lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineofentry Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 History is full of suspicious circumstances invoving 'attacks' before the serious stuff kicks off. Public opinion must be well groomed or there could be problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Acorn Posted July 26, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2014 If the US had any credible evidence either that separatists or Russians fired the missile they would have presented it. It's the usual smoke and mirrors from them, although that doesn't prevent them from accusing Putin. Putin called for a ceasefire weeks ago, supported by a number of European nations, but Ukraine and America said "No". In order to get a balanced view you have to look at a number of sources…. try this... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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