Russian newspaper prints front-page apology for MH17 disaster in Dutch

[White Tiger]

.....Putin called for a ceasefire weeks ago, supported by a number of European nations, but Ukraine and America said "No".

In order to get a balanced view you have to look at a number of sources…. try this...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html

Yes you’re right about that to get a balanced view it’s best to look at a number of sources. I find the minutes of the UN Security Council give the most balanced view and to my mind they make fascinating reading. They are factual and not coloured by journalistic flair or the media’s political leanings. They are a matter of public record. Whichever side of the dispute you’re on, with those you can see an official record of what the main players are saying to each other in the diplomacy game.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/docs.asp?Topic=Ukraine&Type=Meeting

As far as I can see from the UN minutes Putin never made a call for a cease fire at the UN Security Council - which is where it matters; or in his own Parliament where he asked for and got permission to use Russian forces in Ukraine territory. See the statement of the Russian Federation delegate, Vitaly I Churkin, in the official Minute SC/11302 http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2014/sc11302.doc.htm

[Triglav]

http://www.un.org/apps/news/docs.asp?Topic=Ukraine&Type=Meeting

As far as I can see from the UN minutes Putin never made a call for a cease fire at the UN Security Council - which is where it matters; or in his own Parliament where he asked for and got permission to use Russian forces in Ukraine territory. See the statement of the Russian Federation delegate, Vitaly I Churkin, in the official Minute SC/11302 http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2014/sc11302.doc.htm

While I do not agree with your assesment of UNSC as important or having much real-world purpose (it's very much League of Nations 2.0 at this point), lets play this particular game.

VITALY I. CHURKIN (Russian Federation) said the Council had agreed that only three delegations would speak, yet some members were not following that agreement. Expressing support for the Deputy Secretary-Generals observation that cool heads must prevail, he said that his Ukrainian colleague had not followed that notion. The situation earlier this year had seen the democratically-elected President Viktor Yanukovych and Ukraine facing serious economic challenges and decisions, including the signing of an agreement on association with the European Union. That association had harmful consequences for Ukraine, he said.

Posing a number of questions about the consequent demonstrations, he asked why the protests were being encouraged by people from abroad and why the European Union had attended meetings on Ukraine. While emphasizing that he did not wish to condone the actions of President Yanukovych, he asked why some Western colleagues were trying to spur on the confrontation and what armed militants were doing in the streets. The agreement signed on 21 February by President Yanukovych and the Foreign Ministers of Germany, France and Poland should be implemented, he said.

He went on to state that the eastern part of Ukraine was concerned about the replacement Government, pointing out that the removal of Mr. Yanukovych from office had been done in an unconstitutional way. The Russian Parliament had considered the situation in making its decision on the use force on Ukraines territory, and not against Ukraine, he stressed. The President of the Russian Federation had not taken the decision on the use of armed forces, he said, underlining the need for cool heads and for a return to the 21 February agreement.

What part of it do you find objectionable?

Here is the statement from a later meeting regarding ceasefire:

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2014/sc11448.doc.htm

VITALY CHURKIN ( Russian Federation), pointing out that some Council members had not objectively evaluated the situation in Ukraine, categorically refuted threats that had been made against the Russian Federation during the meeting. Without a ceasefire, there would be no agreement on a solution. On the basis of the ceasefire, dialogue must arise to find compromises that respected all parties. Any solution must ensure that people living in the south and east of Ukraine felt they were an integral part of the country. He underscored that he valued the negotiations taking place in Donetsk and hoped the ceasefire would be respected by all parties.

It is worth mentioning that Samantha Power, according to this transcript, believes Crimean minority to be Tartars, not Tatars. I guess she confused them with sauce.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Triglav

[StasD]

this newspaper is paid by the usa. all russians know it. i hope you know it too

[F430murci]

this newspaper is paid by the usa. all russians know it. i hope you know it too

Haha, and all Russians know that dead bodies were planted on MH17 to create a plot against Russia.

[White Tiger]

http://www.un.org/apps/news/docs.asp?Topic=Ukraine&Type=Meeting

As far as I can see from the UN minutes Putin never made a call for a cease fire at the UN Security Council - which is where it matters; or in his own Parliament where he asked for and got permission to use Russian forces in Ukraine territory. See the statement of the Russian Federation delegate, Vitaly I Churkin, in the official Minute SC/11302 http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2014/sc11302.doc.htm

While I do not agree with your assesment of UNSC as important or having much real-world purpose (it's very much League of Nations 2.0 at this point), lets play this particular game.

What a shame you think it’s worthless. If nothing else it’s a forum for countries to debate their views in public and get them put on record – for history, for posterity – and for me that alone makes it precious. I’m really sorry to hear you don’t place any worth on the UN as an organisation. I accept it has it’s failings and makes mistakes, but to my mind it serves an important purpose.

[White Tiger]

VITALY I. CHURKIN (Russian Federation) said the Council had agreed that only three delegations would speak, yet some members were not following that agreement. Expressing support for the Deputy Secretary-Generals observation that cool heads must prevail, he said that his Ukrainian colleague had not followed that notion. The situation earlier this year had seen the democratically-elected President Viktor Yanukovych and Ukraine facing serious economic challenges and decisions, including the signing of an agreement on association with the European Union. That association had harmful consequences for Ukraine, he said.

Posing a number of questions about the consequent demonstrations, he asked why the protests were being encouraged by people from abroad and why the European Union had attended meetings on Ukraine. While emphasizing that he did not wish to condone the actions of President Yanukovych, he asked why some Western colleagues were trying to spur on the confrontation and what armed militants were doing in the streets. The agreement signed on 21 February by President Yanukovych and the Foreign Ministers of Germany, France and Poland should be implemented, he said.

He went on to state that the eastern part of Ukraine was concerned about the replacement Government, pointing out that the removal of Mr. Yanukovych from office had been done in an unconstitutional way. The Russian Parliament had considered the situation in making its decision on the use force on Ukraines territory, and not against Ukraine, he stressed. The President of the Russian Federation had not taken the decision on the use of armed forces, he said, underlining the need for cool heads and for a return to the 21 February agreement.

What part of it do you find objectionable?

Where did I say I found this objectionable? It’s an honest statement of Russia’s diplomatic position.

Although I think you’re right to assume that I do find it an appalling admission for a diplomat to have to make – that your country’s Parliament has authorised the use of force in the territory of another sovereign state. In my book that’s diplomatic speak for war.

[White Tiger]

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2014/sc11448.doc.htm

VITALY CHURKIN ( Russian Federation), pointing out that some Council members had not objectively evaluated the situation in Ukraine, categorically refuted threats that had been made against the Russian Federation during the meeting. Without a ceasefire, there would be no agreement on a solution. On the basis of the ceasefire, dialogue must arise to find compromises that respected all parties. Any solution must ensure that people living in the south and east of Ukraine felt they were an integral part of the country. He underscored that he valued the negotiations taking place in Donetsk and hoped the ceasefire would be respected by all parties.

You left out a couple of important bits from those Minutes:

* that the Russian delegate then said “...the peace plan was not viable or realistic.” And

* that the Ukraine delegate said “...the Russian Federation should “truly and efficiently” support the Ukrainian President’s peace plan.”

Those minutes do not include a call for a ceasefire from the Russian delegation. The Russian delegation have never put that to the UN on the Ukraine as far as I can see.

[White Tiger]

http://www.un.org/apps/news/docs.asp?Topic=Ukraine&Type=Meeting

As far as I can see from the UN minutes Putin never made a call for a cease fire at the UN Security Council - which is where it matters; or in his own Parliament where he asked for and got permission to use Russian forces in Ukraine territory. See the statement of the Russian Federation delegate, Vitaly I Churkin, in the official Minute SC/11302 http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2014/sc11302.doc.htm

It is worth mentioning that Samantha Power, according to this transcript, believes Crimean minority to be Tartars, not Tatars. I guess she confused them with sauce.

It would be a funny joke – except the group she refers to are actually called Tartars (not Tatas as you seem to think).

I think you’ve missed the point of my post. Which wasn’t to say that one side is right or wrong, but to agree that it’s important to get a full & impartial picture, and that I think you best get that from the UN’s perspective.

[Morakot]

[Triglav]

Where did I say I found this objectionable? Its an honest statement of Russias diplomatic position.

Although I think youre right to assume that I do find it an appalling admission for a diplomat to have to make that your countrys Parliament has authorised the use of force in the territory of another sovereign state. In my book thats diplomatic speak for war.

A neighboring country has seen a violent overthrow of the government, the new government was openly hostile towards Russia and pushed extreme xenophobic rhetoric. Of course army was brought to standby. Should Novorossiya rebels loose, I expect we'll be back at it once again, unfortunately.

Those minutes do not include a call for a ceasefire from the Russian delegation. The Russian delegation have never put that to the UN on the Ukraine as far as I can see.

If we are speaking semantics, I believe no country ever has. Ceasefire was discussed, nothing came out of it. Putin recently made a personal appeal to cease fire, video is freely available, but it wasn't made to UN.

Discussing that Putin (personally) never put a call to ceasefire to UN is akin to discussing that Obama never put one on Palestine - it's just too conditional and narrow a view to draw any conclusions.

It would be a funny joke except the group she refers to are actually called Tartars (not Tatars /fixed it for you/ as you seem to think).

While I risk sounding even more ignorant, would you care to elaborate on the "Tartar population in Crimea"?

I think youve missed the point of my post. Which wasnt to say that one side is right or wrong, but to agree that its important to get a full & impartial picture, and that I think you best get that from the UNs perspective.

Fair enough. I disagree on this, as I have watched a few videos of UN sessions, and those proved to be far from being objective and impartial. Edited July 26, 2014 by Triglav

[White Tiger]

It would be a funny joke except the group she refers to are actually called Tartars (not Tatars /fixed it for you/ as you seem to think).

While I risk sounding even more ignorant, would you care to elaborate on the "Tartar population in Crimea"?

You're not ignorant on this - I am. I've checked my Concise Oxford Dictionary and both spellings are acceptable.

[oldsailor35]

In a recent Russian poll, it was announced that 86% of the population support what Putin is doing in the UKRAINE. Worldwide countries are calling for sanctions. A travel ban has been placed on select number of Russian persons. However in the light of this poll, ALL Russian passports should have this ban applied. All Russians overseas should be deported immediately and this ban maintained until they change their attitudes.

[F430murci]

In a recent Russian poll, it was announced that 86% of the population support what Putin is doing in the UKRAINE. Worldwide countries are calling for sanctions. A travel ban has been placed on select number of Russian persons. However in the light of this poll, ALL Russian passports should have this ban applied. All Russians overseas should be deported immediately and this ban maintained until they change their attitudes.

Jeez, Russian public perception is not the fault of Russian citizens. No need to blame them or hold them accountable.

[fasteddie]

Kinda confirms what most have been saying. Along with their recent actions on the border. Hardly a pull back:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/24/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

All it confirms is, he is America's lackey.

I don't know who shot down the Malaysian flight, but I do know the Russians have provided satellite images and radar tracking data and the Americans have provided accusations based on social media.

As for recent happenings on the border, a Russian village in the Rostov region had to be evacuated when it came under a barrage of more than forty mortar shells. The Russian officer in charge said, "It's lucky the Ukrainian army are so useless, otherwise somebody might have got hurt".

[fasteddie]

Has anyone bothered to read the paper? The article goes to say that event is tragic no matter how it happened, and the article on the first page has their reporter interviewing locals, all of whom are sure it was Ukrainian military.

Ukrainian military has also admitted an "accidental" Buk launch during training excersise, but of course that isn't worth reporting.

When did they admit this? In 2001??

Today, and I'm obviously talking about MH17.

They still haven't taken responsibility for the '01 shooting, though for all practical purposes Ukrainian guilt is proven.

This is not true. There was no accidental BUK launch by Ukraine. It's a lie published by the Russian media. Show a link to a credible news source and then we can discuss this. Otherwise, it's right up there with the other lies they've published.

http://time.com/3014822/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-rt-russian-television/

In the aftermath of the crash last week, the RT machine kicked into overdrive, churning out a steady stream of strange reports. In an effort to implicitly assign blame on the Ukrainians, it noted the proximity of Putin’s own plane. It quoted a Russian defense ministry source asking why a Ukrainian air force jet was detected nearby. And it quoted another anonymous Russian official, who volunteered the juicy claim that a Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile was operational in the vicinity at the time of the incident. This is how RT works, explains Firth: by arranging facts to fit a fantasy.

“What they do is a very smart, slick way of manipulating reality,” she says. “In Ukraine, you’re taking a very small part of a much wider story, totally omitted the context of the story, and so what you wind up with on air is outright misinformation.”

As the international media published reports indicating the plane was shot down by pro-Russian separatists,

That's a statement from the time article. There are no published "reports" as claimed, only accusations, even the whitehouse admits it has no evidence but draws it's conclusions from social media. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so serious, America is trying to draw us in to another war only this time it threatens to be nuclear.

[Publicus]

I think this illustration pretty well sums up Putin's statements and attitude as his domestic approval ratings soar skyward.

Note the countries symbolized and represented on Putin's trophy wall.

To say, as did the Russian Federation delegate to the UN, Vitaly I Churkin that the Russian Parliament was making decisions, and that the "use [of] force [is] on Ukraines territory, and not against Ukraine" is a classic Orwellian statement. Another state using, supporting, sponsoring military force on your country's soil is war not diplomacy. There is nothing neighborly about it.

Russian military forces in Russia have been engaged in an artillery barrage against Ukraine forces in the Ukraine, which is war not diplomacy.

Putin is digging his own grave as today the UK, Germany, France are speaking openly of greater sanctions against Russia, whose economy is presently either in recession or verging on recession. The existing sanctions and the risk and economic uncertainty they impose on Russia are already driving the country's economy downward.

Putin became leader of Russia in 2000 and still remains at the top of its pecking order, yet another Tsar for life.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Publicus

[lovetotravel]

Well, it's now been confirmed by the Russian media:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/20/world/europe/ukraine-rebels-weapons/

The Russian website Vosti ran an article the same day titled "Skies of Donetsk will be defended by surface-to-air missile system Buk."

The article claimed: "The anti-air defense point is one of the divisions of the missile corps and is equipped with motorized "Buk" anti-aircraft missile systems."

[lovetotravel]

As the international media published reports indicating the plane was shot down by pro-Russian separatists,

That's a statement from the time article. There are no published "reports" as claimed, only accusations, even the whitehouse admits it has no evidence but draws it's conclusions from social media. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so serious, America is trying to draw us in to another war only this time it threatens to be nuclear.

You've got to be kidding me. With all the sophisticated intelligence the US has, social media would be the last place they'd look for evidence. They know there was a radar lock and they spotted the missile launch. Hardly able to do this only with social media!

It's really easy to stop this. Have Russia stop the backing of the rebels. They may be pro-Russian, which is great! But funding fighting in another country is not the right way to go about this. Which is what Putin is doing right now.

[fasteddie]

As the international media published reports indicating the plane was shot down by pro-Russian separatists,

That's a statement from the time article. There are no published "reports" as claimed, only accusations, even the whitehouse admits it has no evidence but draws it's conclusions from social media. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so serious, America is trying to draw us in to another war only this time it threatens to be nuclear.

You've got to be kidding me. With all the sophisticated intelligence the US has, social media would be the last place they'd look for evidence. They know there was a radar lock and they spotted the missile launch. Hardly able to do this only with social media!

It's really easy to stop this. Have Russia stop the backing of the rebels. They may be pro-Russian, which is great! But funding fighting in another country is not the right way to go about this. Which is what Putin is doing right now.

"They know there was a radar lock and they spotted the missile launch. Hardly able to do this only with social media!"

I am only repeating what the whitehouse itself has said. They have not reported having a radar lock or spotting the missile launch.

The Russians on the other hand have published satellite imagery and radar plots, it's in the public domain.

http://on.rt.com/d3must

"But funding fighting in another country is not the right way to go about this. Which is what Putin is doing right now."

The fighting would not even be happening if America had not spent 5 billion dollars funding the violent overthrow of the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

As for funding fighting in another country, Hey! it's the American way!

http://academic.ever...erventions.html

Edited July 27, 2014 by fasteddie

[lovetotravel]

"They know there was a radar lock and they spotted the missile launch. Hardly able to do this only with social media!"

I am only repeating what the whitehouse itself has said. They have not reported having a radar lock or spotting the missile launch.

The Russians on the other hand have published satellite imagery and radar plots, it's in the public domain.

http://on.rt.com/d3must

"But funding fighting in another country is not the right way to go about this. Which is what Putin is doing right now."

The fighting would not even be happening if America had not spent 5 billion dollars funding the violent overthrow of the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

As for funding fighting in another country, Hey! it's the American way!

http://academic.ever...erventions.html

Russian Times is not a credible media source. I can post all sorts of BS published by the Ukraine media, but I don't trust it either. So credible media sources only, please. Here's an example of what's being reported to the Russian citizens:

http://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-media-says-cia-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh-17-260381

Though no shots have yet been fired, the war to control the narrative surrounding downed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 is heating up. Russia’s Channel One told viewers on Friday that the entire incident was orchestrated by the CIA, CNBC reported.

Here's where I got the info on the missile lock and launch:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-plane-questions/index.html

According to a senior American official, a U.S. radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before plane went down.

A second system saw a heat signature, which would indicate a missile rising from the ground into the air at the time the airliner was hit, the official explained.

Does anyone dispute that?

Not at this point.

Do you really want to go tit for tat on either countries involvement in other countries affairs? Russia has lots of experience doing just that. Best left for another topic, but yes, both countries meddle in the affairs of other countries way too often.

[craigt3365]

A post has been removed from view. Discussions are fine, personal attacks will not be allowed.

[CBR250]

I think that what happened with MH17 is a tragedy, but I also believe that was a mistake. I do not believe that a soldier will shoot down a passenger plane in porpouse. The main responsability of this event is war, and Ukrania was in fault flying military planes in an area under fire, and not advicing commercial airlines to divert its planes. A terrorist will do it....and planes still flying..and low...over conflicts areas. Another tragedy at any time....

Yes, it probably was a mistake. But that's what happens when you have a war. Every sociopath and ratbag with a grievance gets a weapon. But that doesn't excuse Russia, who it seems supplied not only the SAM which brought the jet down, but the training to use it. They just forgot to include that little bit right at the front of the Training Manual that talks about clearly identifying your target.

And it wasn't flying that low - it was 1,000 feet above the restricted zone at 33,000 feet. In retrospect, not nearly far enough.

[spidermike007]

"They know there was a radar lock and they spotted the missile launch. Hardly able to do this only with social media!"

I am only repeating what the whitehouse itself has said. They have not reported having a radar lock or spotting the missile launch.

The Russians on the other hand have published satellite imagery and radar plots, it's in the public domain.

http://on.rt.com/d3must

"But funding fighting in another country is not the right way to go about this. Which is what Putin is doing right now."

The fighting would not even be happening if America had not spent 5 billion dollars funding the violent overthrow of the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

As for funding fighting in another country, Hey! it's the American way!

http://academic.ever...erventions.html

Russian Times is not a credible media source. I can post all sorts of BS published by the Ukraine media, but I don't trust it either. So credible media sources only, please. Here's an example of what's being reported to the Russian citizens:

http://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-media-says-cia-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh-17-260381

Though no shots have yet been fired, the war to control the narrative surrounding downed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 is heating up. Russia’s Channel One told viewers on Friday that the entire incident was orchestrated by the CIA, CNBC reported.

Here's where I got the info on the missile lock and launch:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-plane-questions/index.html

According to a senior American official, a U.S. radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before plane went down.

A second system saw a heat signature, which would indicate a missile rising from the ground into the air at the time the airliner was hit, the official explained.

Does anyone dispute that?

Not at this point.

Do you really want to go tit for tat on either countries involvement in other countries affairs? Russia has lots of experience doing just that. Best left for another topic, but yes, both countries meddle in the affairs of other countries way too often.

Well, as an American citizen, I often dispute or distrust anything ANY senior American official says. So, when you offer the above quote from an anonymous senior official, it may as well be coming from Bozo the clown. If they want to show proof, we can examine that. But a quote is not nearly enough. Not even close. And that is all Blundering Barry has been providing us with lately.

Spidermike007

[F430murci]

Unfortunately, this the type if mentality that pervades much of what you hear in Russia media:

------------------

He said: Malaysia Airlines should have known better to send a plane over a war zone. Who in World War Two sent planes to fly over Europe?

He then launched into a vile homophobic rant, raging: Im completely against homosexuality. I think its disgusting. I think its a perversion of all human morals.

"Russia is the only country standing up against the seemingly-global trend.

Blaming homosexuality for recent paedophile scandals, he said: If you see where homosexual propaganda has led us and look at the scandals recently with paedophiles, even in Parliament, its all because of this do what you like culture.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pro-putin-brit-fanatic-plotting-russian-3919731

[F430murci]

Unfortunately, this the type if mentality that pervades much of what you hear in Russia media:

------------------

He said: Malaysia Airlines should have known better to send a plane over a war zone. Who in World War Two sent planes to fly over Europe?

He then launched into a vile homophobic rant, raging: Im completely against homosexuality. I think its disgusting. I think its a perversion of all human morals.

"Russia is the only country standing up against the seemingly-global trend.

Blaming homosexuality for recent paedophile scandals, he said: If you see where homosexual propaganda has led us and look at the scandals recently with paedophiles, even in Parliament, its all because of this do what you like culture.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pro-putin-brit-fanatic-plotting-russian-3919731

Au contraire, this is exactly how Russian press operates and is reporting MH17. Combine a theory with something inflamatory to make people emotionally buy into it. This guy's statement will be all over Russia media with spin that everyone did it in purpose to support war in Ukraine. Evil West. Sound familiar?

Just because you don't like, does not make it off topic.

Edited July 27, 2014 by F430murci

[OZEMADE]

Seems to me that these days we can't rely on any media sources when such political stakes are so high.

Until I hear some credible and doubtless proof one way or the other I'll hold off speculating

Official 60 minutes tonight and channel 9 news Australia.

Channel 9. The first Black Box has shown that a Missile blew the plane out of the sky. Most knew this, however it is now confirmed. They reported the next step will be finding out who fired the missile and where the missile was fired from.

60 minute. Australians are now the most hated by the Russians and the Russian backed separatists, because the Australian Gov forced the rest of the world to stand up to the Russians and the criminals that downed the airline. The Aussies had better watch out as they are sending in the Aust Fed Police (AFP) unarmed and this could really get messy if any AFP, inspectors or investigators, were shot by one of these Terrorists, as it is reported by the media,they are intoxicated at the check points and already giving the Aussie media a hard time.

[mike324]

this thread has become a russian news vs the world news. I'll take my chance in believing the world news, russia has a proven track record of putting their own investigators and journalist to bed when they don't like whats being reported or written.

[F430murci]

this thread has become a russian news vs the world news. I'll take my chance in believing the world news, russia has a proven track record of putting their own investigators and journalist to bed when they don't like whats being reported or written.

Putin even did a hostile takeover of VK when Pavel Duriv allowed political opposition of Putin to voice their opinions on VK. Pavel fled right before FSB showed up at VK offices in St. Petersburg. Shortly thereafter, Durov's oartner's shares and controlling interests was in the hands of a Putin sidekick.

Facebook here is annoying due to all of the anti Obama anti democrats political rhetoric, but US does nothing to censor it or take it over so they can control what's posted. This is just one of many examples.

[simple1]

Seems to me that these days we can't rely on any media sources when such political stakes are so high.

Until I hear some credible and doubtless proof one way or the other I'll hold off speculating

Official 60 minutes tonight and channel 9 news Australia.

Channel 9. The first Black Box has shown that a Missile blew the plane out of the sky. Most knew this, however it is now confirmed. They reported the next step will be finding out who fired the missile and where the missile was fired from.

60 minute. Australians are now the most hated by the Russians and the Russian backed separatists, because the Australian Gov forced the rest of the world to stand up to the Russians and the criminals that downed the airline. The Aussies had better watch out as they are sending in the Aust Fed Police (AFP) unarmed and this could really get messy if any AFP, inspectors or investigators, were shot by one of these Terrorists, as it is reported by the media,they are intoxicated at the check points and already giving the Aussie media a hard time.

Oz Govt is still waiting for Ukraine parlimentary approval before deployment of AFP. The Dutch have pulled back from providing armed protection due to concerns of being pulled into the conflict, same applies to Oz. Fighting in the vicinity of MH17. Potential for a long dragged out investigation/recovery effort, let's hope not.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/mh17-armed-mission/1285428.html

Edited July 28, 2014 by simple1

[Acorn]

One of the main thrusts of the Pepe Escobar article in the Asia Times article I previously referred to is "who profits?"

What could the separatists hope to gain from shooting down an airliner? Nothing, or less than nothing - the loss of support from sympathisers.

How about Russia? Nothing, again. As we have seen over the last few weeks, and as they could easily have anticipated, they are damned despite whatever conciliatory moves they make.

Kiev, again, had nothing to gain. So common sense says that it was most probably an accident.

But what about the hype? The drum banging. The unsubstantiated accusations and calls to up the ante?

I wonder how much has been spent on the war, so far?

"The blood-thirsty machine that is the US industrial-military complex makes billions at all three phases of the war industry process: the manufacture of ever more lethal and complex weapon systems, the destruction stage, and then finally the occupation and rebuilding phase "

Another excellent article here from Pepe Escobar

http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-230714.html