August 29 - heavy new penalties await visa overstays: Thai Immigration

[Bernard Flint]

I think something been lost in translation- I think (and who knows) the jail and 20,000 baht thing is for a total failure to produce a passport - in overstaying terms- not because you'd left it at home on the table when you went out or that you've lost it and are waiting for a new one to arrive etc. 

 

 

Of course it is, the people that make silly statements ARE the overstayers or ones that will not be here soon.

[Asiantravel]

There is no 20,000 baht fine or 2 year in jail regulation. What is quoted is the rule regarding ovrstay, which is punishable with a fine of up to 20,000 baht and/or a jailterm of up to two years.

 

Failure to carry a passport is reason to hold someone to establish his/her identity and determine ones status in the country, according to the immigration Act. That is a right immigration has.and also the reason they do not have to accept a drivers licence or such and can insist on a passport in case of a foreigner.

 

There is a general requiremnt for an ID, but i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time and than no fine will be levied.

 

 

 

 

I keep my passport in a safe except when I travel somewhere. So are you saying Mario if I showed my Thai drivers licence just as a temporary measure, (because it includes the passport number ) and a copy of the passport  but undertook to take the original passport to the police station or immigration or wherever they want within say 2 hours they would be likely to accept that?

Edited July 31, 2014 by Asiantravel

[thaibeachlovers]

I wonder how bad it would have to get to make expats leave Thailand. Getting fined 20,000 baht for not carrying a pasport might do it for me. That's not chump change.

If farangs actually got sent to jail for that would make me think hard if I want to stay here.

[heybruce]

Carry your passport all the time--carry it at the beach, carry it in the gym, carry it when going out for a night drinking, carry it everywhere.

 

Remember the news stories earlier this year about Thailand being a hub for stolen passports?  This should give that industry a tremendous boost.

[Bernard Flint]

Rule of thumb on here

 

1/ no smoking in bars ------------------------  the smokers moan

 

2/ Allowing a visa company to stick 800,000 baht in your account for extension of retirement -------------  the guilty moan

 

3/ not reading overstay rules -------------------- the overstayers

 

4/ Enforcing laws to catch criminal -------------------- the criminals moan

 

 

[Asiantravel]

 I dare them to lock-up a Thailand Elite cardmember for not carrying a passport

[thaibeachlovers]

 

There is no 20,000 baht fine or 2 year in jail regulation. What is quoted is the rule regarding ovrstay, which is punishable with a fine of up to 20,000 baht and/or a jailterm of up to two years.

 

Failure to carry a passport is reason to hold someone to establish his/her identity and determine ones status in the country, according to the immigration Act. That is a right immigration has.and also the reason they do not have to accept a drivers licence or such and can insist on a passport in case of a foreigner.

 

There is a general requiremnt for an ID, but i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time and than no fine will be levied.

 

 

 

 

I keep my passport in a safe except when I travel somewhere. So are you saying Mario if I showed my Thai drivers licence just as a temporary measure, (because it includes the passport number ) and a copy of the passport  but undertook to take the original passport to the police station or immigration or wherever they want within say 2 hours they would be likely to accept that?

 

Read the OP. They say you have to have the passport with you at all times. Whether that will be changed when they realise that it would have a negative effect on western tourism is something we'll have to wait and see.

BTW, you can have a Thai driving licence, but it doesn't prove you have a valid visa.

[mercman24]

forget your passport, 20,000 fine or 2 years in jail, murder someone, pay off the family, no jail  time the country had gone potty,  off topic -  what about that guy a few months ago who ran down and killed 3 policeman, last i heard he was out on bail, we never get any follow - up of these stories ?

[Rumblecat]

I wonder how bad it would have to get to make expats leave Thailand. Getting fined 20,000 baht for not carrying a pasport might do it for me. That's not chump change.

If farangs actually got sent to jail for that would make me think hard if I want to stay here.

They're not saying 20,000 baht for not carrying a passport though. It's 20,000 baht for failure to produce one- which is different. Like if you had to prove you weren't here on an overstay and had a valid visa for example. Not about going down 7-11 and being stopped by the police and immediately fined 20,000 baht. 

[ritoyenne]

I think something been lost in translation- I think (and who knows) the jail and 20,000 baht thing is for a total failure to produce a passport - in overstaying terms- not because you'd left it at home on the table when you went out or that you've lost it and are waiting for a new one to arrive etc. 

,

+1

It seems obvious to me.

The 20k/2 yrs thing is if you realy can't produce your passport, with no reason. No if you forgot it at home.

[phosphorescent]

Immigration: "Foreigners must be able to produce their passport or face the consequences".

 

Average TV poster: (pulls hair out) "NOOOOOoooooo, THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END AS WE KNOW IT!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!!" violin playing in background "OH, THE HUMANITY!!!" (uncontrollable crying, sniff, sniff, sob)

 

Rational person: "This rule is most likely aimed at people who cant produce their passports, 'ever', because they don't have one. If, however, I am required to have my passport with me at all times, it's going to be a slight inconvenience and raises the risk of losing it..................but it's not the end of the world and in time I'm sure I'll get used to it". 

 

[SICHONSTEVE]

Immigration: "Foreigners must be able to produce their passport or face the consequences".

 

Average TV poster: (pulls hair out) "NOOOOOoooooo, THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END AS WE KNOW IT!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!!" violin playing in background "OH, THE HUMANITY!!!" (uncontrollable crying, sniff, sniff, sob)

 

Rational person: "This rule is most likely aimed at people who cant produce their passports, 'ever', because they don't have one. If, however, I am required to have my passport with me at all times, it's going to be a slight inconvenience and raises the risk of losing it..................but it's not the end of the world and in time I'm sure I'll get used to it". 

 

 

.........but you shouldn't have to "get used to it" as it is stupid that you have to carry such a valuable item such as you're passport around with you at all times when an immigration stamped photocopy of all of the relevant passport pages (photo/information and visa stamp pages) will suffice!!!

 

 Is this not a tad more sensible??

[Thai at Heart]

 

Just a thought, but I think most of these tough new laws are not so much aimed at westerners as they stick out and by and large follow the rules. It's the people from neighbouring countries that are the real target. It's much harder to distinguish them and they are much more likely to use an fake Thai ID card, especially if they can speak Thai language. They are much more likely to work, own a business or otherwise break Thai laws if they are an overstayer. The article uses the examples of the fake Thai ID card and an example of a Chinese woman. The only mention of westerners is in the photograph and that it's been written in English.

Reality check. These laws are aimed at all non-Thais. All foreigners. Yes that includes westerners.
 
In fact, these laws are designed to make it easier to target western tourists. The police can just stop any white face in the street or beach and ask for their passport otherwise some kind of bribe so they don't have to spend time in jail. Unofficially, it's the Military giving a reward to the Police for their cooperation in not opposing the coup.
 
Unfortunately the Police and Department of Labor, and Immigration are so incompentent at doing their jobs that it's come to this. Instead of doing their jobs investigating businesses suspected of operating illegally or hiring foreigners or following up the 90 day address of people who report, they either do nothing or take bribes so that illegals are still stinking up the place.  
 

The police and the immigration are running scared as told to meby a Lt. Col. of police and an immigration officer, when i did my 90 day report,he went through the passport very thoroughly instead of just changing the report paper in the passport as he usually does,i asked if there was a problem with my passport,he said no but everyone is scared of making a mistake as military officers come round every day checking their work and this is in a small town in Isaan

Everyone knows that immigration is bent. They issue under the table visas all the time. How many high profile criminals get rolled over here from all sorts of countries. Then there are the stories around the Malaysian plane and basically immigration here is bent.

Of course the solution isn't to punish everyone but to cleanup immigration but that is too much like hard work. So, here it is today. Don't overstay and be prepared to produce your passport on demand.

Not the most odious thing in the world, but how many are they going to catch? Not many I think.

[fastphil]

I believe the passport carrying allows for a photocopy to be carried AS LONG AS it is a certified copy (my guess is getting it stamped on entry at Immigration).  Anyone familiar with what qualifies as certified?

The Thaivisa news article yesterday specifically said that the only acceptable ID for foreigners to carry in Thailand is an original passport and also said that there is no such thing as a certified copy of a passport! Edited July 31, 2014 by fastphil

[phosphorescent]

 

Immigration: "Foreigners must be able to produce their passport or face the consequences".

 

Average TV poster: (pulls hair out) "NOOOOOoooooo, THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END AS WE KNOW IT!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!!" violin playing in background "OH, THE HUMANITY!!!" (uncontrollable crying, sniff, sniff, sob)

 

Rational person: "This rule is most likely aimed at people who cant produce their passports, 'ever', because they don't have one. If, however, I am required to have my passport with me at all times, it's going to be a slight inconvenience and raises the risk of losing it..................but it's not the end of the world and in time I'm sure I'll get used to it". 

 

 

.........but you shouldn't have to "get used to it" as it is stupid that you have to carry such a valuable item such as you're passport around with you at all times when an immigration stamped photocopy of all of the relevant passport pages (photo/information and visa stamp pages) will suffice!!!

 

 Is this not a tad more sensible??

 

Wholeheartedly agree....................but it is what it is.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... many visa overstayers were found to have flouted Thai laws in various aspects - such as buying Thai-national identification cards.' Really? To do what? I hardly think I, for one, could be mistaken for a Thai.

[John1thru10]

 

 

Last month I was stopped 3 times driving Udon Thani - Khon Kaen and at one road block had to go to the ' payments table ' manned by a Major and a Sub-Lieutenant.

 

The major was quite happy with the photo-copy of my passport but did ask why I didn't carry the original so I explained my fear of losing it and the resulting ball ache of a hassle.  He was amazed that my current document was obtained via the Hong Kong route and had cost over Bt.8,000 and his amazement grew when I told him about the new system which would require me to go to BKK twice.

 

All he could say was " Crazy " and when driving away I had quite a chuckle at the thought of a Thai official describing another country's bureaucracy in such terms.

Incidentally I never did find out why I was sent to the table other than possibly the language problem. Ii didn't have a licence but the Major said he wasn't gong to fine me !

The biggest problem was everyone freaking out because I have a vinyl cover on the flatbed of my pickup and needing to have a peek to see what I was carrying,  only boring emergency equipment I'm afraid.

This visa/overstay subject has been done to death in the Thai visas section above.

I would imagine the reason you were 'released' without problems NKK was the fact that you were probably polite, smiled and produced a photo copy of your passport and visa and gave a credible explanation why you did not have your actual passport at hand. Much depends on attitude in this country and becoming belligerent only exacerbates any problems.

I have only lived here 14 years and never been asked for my passport. Whenever stopped by police road checks, I have never been asked for my Thai drivers license either.

A lot of people are panicking or angry and in some cases that is justified, but for the large majority of people who are legally resident in Thailand on proper visas and  extension of stay, being polite and co-operative when stopped by the authorities will go a long way to saving any hassles.

 

 Much depends on attitude in this country + being polite and co-operative when stopped by the authorities will go a long way to saving any hassles.

 

You are so right!

 

As far as I am concern, I can say most of the time I am smiling, always been like that,  but in my country sometimes it seems to me, people are thinking, why does he smile, what does he wants from me? Nothing of course!  its in the family every one are good tempered and smiling people. In my country with a police officer or a civil servant if smiling and being polite little chance it will change anything, in Thailand probably yes!

 

 

Those are quaint, more traditional ideas in Thailand.  And, they have a beautiful spirit and tradition behind them.

But, one would be very foolish to believe after studying history, that quaint ideas are always honored.  Thailand is NOT one person.  There are other people with extremely different feelings, who you may not have ever been directly introduced to before.

Edited July 31, 2014 by John1thru10

[chappie1207]

In regards to having to produce your passport after the 29th, what about people that have or will be applying for a new passport from the UK? The process currently takes about 6 weeks and we will be without a passport for that period!!! An original passport must be produced....THIS IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING!

[DrTuner]

Right, I found the source of the 20k/2y, Immigration Act:

 

 

Section 62 : Whoever fails to comply with the provisions of Section 11 or Para.2 of Section 18 shall be

punished by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht.

 

Section 11 and 18 are about entering and exiting Thailand. 

 

They're connecting it with Section 58:

 

 

Section 58 : Any alien who has no lawful document for entering the Kingdom under Section 12 (1); or

has no Residence Certificate under this Act; and also has no identification in accordance with the Law on

Alien registration, is considered to have entered into the Kingdom in violation to this Act.

 

 So, if you don't have a passport, residence certificate or alien registration book at all, you've entered the country illegally and it's 20k/2y. Seems correct.

 

 Nothing about having to have the passport on you all the time.

 

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

 

 I wish they'd actually bother to read the Act.

Edited July 31, 2014 by DrTuner

[SICHONSTEVE]

 

 

Immigration: "Foreigners must be able to produce their passport or face the consequences".

 

Average TV poster: (pulls hair out) "NOOOOOoooooo, THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END AS WE KNOW IT!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!!" violin playing in background "OH, THE HUMANITY!!!" (uncontrollable crying, sniff, sniff, sob)

 

Rational person: "This rule is most likely aimed at people who cant produce their passports, 'ever', because they don't have one. If, however, I am required to have my passport with me at all times, it's going to be a slight inconvenience and raises the risk of losing it..................but it's not the end of the world and in time I'm sure I'll get used to it". 

 

 

.........but you shouldn't have to "get used to it" as it is stupid that you have to carry such a valuable item such as you're passport around with you at all times when an immigration stamped photocopy of all of the relevant passport pages (photo/information and visa stamp pages) will suffice!!!

 

 Is this not a tad more sensible??

 

Wholeheartedly agree....................but it is what it is.

 

 

 Why oh why though don't they have people that understand these things instead of maverick jokers that try to crack a nut with a hammer in charge of making up these ill thought out and nonsensical rules to appease the good general???

 

 I cannot and do not accept stupidity and this is a prime example if ever there was one!!!

[Jonmarleesco]

 

I believe the passport carrying allows for a photocopy to be carried AS LONG AS it is a certified copy (my guess is getting it stamped on entry at Immigration).  Anyone familiar with what qualifies as certified?

The Thaivisa news article yesterday specifically said that the only acceptable ID for foreigners to carry in Thailand is an original passport and also said that there is no such thing as a certified copy of a passport!

 

There is such a thing as a certified copy of a passport, and it used all the time for a variety of purposes. For immigration ID purposes is another matter, though a question to a lawyer a while ago, in response to an article he had published in a magazine, elicited the opinion that, yes, a copy - uncertified - was acceptable.

 

But my view is that of many others on this forum: why should I risk losing my passport - UK government property, by the way - to satisfy immigration's pedantia, when a copy should be adequate, with the original presented at a police station if necessary? I would also question the legality, even in Thailand, of being stopped without good reason, which they would need to do, more often than not, in order to check the passport.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Right, I found the source of the 20k/2y, Immigration Act:

 

 

Section 62 : Whoever fails to comply with the provisions of Section 11 or Para.2 of Section 18 shall be

punished by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht.

 

Section 11 and 18 are about entering and exiting Thailand. 

 

They're connecting it with Section 58:

 

 

Section 58 : Any alien who has no lawful document for entering the Kingdom under Section 12 (1); or

has no Residence Certificate under this Act; and also has no identification in accordance with the Law on

Alien registration, is considered to have entered into the Kingdom in violation to this Act.

 

 So, if you don't have a passport, residence certificate or alien registration book at all, you've entered the country illegally and it's 20k/2y. Seems correct.

 

 Nothing about having to have the passport on you all the time.

 

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

 

 I wish they'd actually bother to read the Act.

 

 I assume you mean the ignoramus that is releasing these idiotic press releases 'on the hoof' seemingly daily that explain nothing + leave as much in the dark as before, and not us. 

[animatic]

If you can't get out before your expiry day because of a delayed flight or other valid excuse,

you can go to immigration and get a 1 week extension, usually for 1,900 baht.

You can't get 30 days, except if you are in the hospital.

[Asiantravel]

 

 

There is no 20,000 baht fine or 2 year in jail regulation. What is quoted is the rule regarding ovrstay, which is punishable with a fine of up to 20,000 baht and/or a jailterm of up to two years.

 

Failure to carry a passport is reason to hold someone to establish his/her identity and determine ones status in the country, according to the immigration Act. That is a right immigration has.and also the reason they do not have to accept a drivers licence or such and can insist on a passport in case of a foreigner.

 

There is a general requiremnt for an ID, but i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time and than no fine will be levied.

 

 

 

 

I keep my passport in a safe except when I travel somewhere. So are you saying Mario if I showed my Thai drivers licence just as a temporary measure, (because it includes the passport number ) and a copy of the passport  but undertook to take the original passport to the police station or immigration or wherever they want within say 2 hours they would be likely to accept that?

 

Read the OP. They say you have to have the passport with you at all times. Whether that will be changed when they realise that it would have a negative effect on western tourism is something we'll have to wait and see.

BTW, you can have a Thai driving licence, but it doesn't prove you have a valid visa.

 

 

but Mario says " i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time " which doesnt mean immediately ?

 

[TheRascal]

I wonder how bad it would have to get to make expats leave Thailand. Getting fined 20,000 baht for not carrying a pasport might do it for me. That's not chump change.
If farangs actually got sent to jail for that would make me think hard if I want to stay here.

They're not saying 20,000 baht for not carrying a passport though. It's 20,000 baht for failure to produce one- which is different. Like if you had to prove you weren't here on an overstay and had a valid visa for example. Not about going down 7-11 and being stopped by the police and immediately fined 20,000 baht.

 
^^ This

[animatic]

 

 

 

There is no 20,000 baht fine or 2 year in jail regulation. What is quoted is the rule regarding ovrstay, which is punishable with a fine of up to 20,000 baht and/or a jailterm of up to two years.

 

Failure to carry a passport is reason to hold someone to establish his/her identity and determine ones status in the country, according to the immigration Act. That is a right immigration has.and also the reason they do not have to accept a drivers licence or such and can insist on a passport in case of a foreigner.

 

There is a general requiremnt for an ID, but i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time and than no fine will be levied.

 

 

 

 

I keep my passport in a safe except when I travel somewhere. So are you saying Mario if I showed my Thai drivers licence just as a temporary measure, (because it includes the passport number ) and a copy of the passport  but undertook to take the original passport to the police station or immigration or wherever they want within say 2 hours they would be likely to accept that?

 

Read the OP. They say you have to have the passport with you at all times. Whether that will be changed when they realise that it would have a negative effect on western tourism is something we'll have to wait and see.

BTW, you can have a Thai driving licence, but it doesn't prove you have a valid visa.

 

 

but Mario says " i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time " which doesnt mean immediately ?

 

 

It was said elsewhere that you could get a photo copy of your passport and have it signed/stamped by immigration and then carry that. Plastify it and then it's less a loss, you passport can stay home in the safe.

[John1thru10]

EVERYONE seems to forget that we are under marital law.  That changes EVERYTHING about what you think you or anyone else has to say about the matter.  Everyone here seems to have forgotten that, or not understand what the term means.

 

The military has people in each office now, including immigration - they are NOT separate anymore.  That's the definition of martial law - the military makes the rules, and can change the rules, at any time, and in any way it wants to.  It doesn't answer to someone else, and there is no vote about anything. That's not 'whinging'.  Martial law is never 'lite'.

 

People here are chatting away, as if they believe martial law is subordinate to what you think makes sense, or what your embassy would have to say about it.  Or how it will affect tourism.  Or what another part of the government want to say about it.

 

SURPRISE, that is the opposite of what it means.  Wake up - you are under martial law.

Edited July 31, 2014 by John1thru10

[tomyumchai]

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

 

are the beaches flooded with *the above*? i know of 1 foreigner who lives on the beach near me. hes been there for 10 years or more and seems to have nothing more than a book and a pair of speedos......i wonder how he will get on when hes deported?

[OZEMADE]

 I dare them to lock-up a Thailand Elite cardmember for not carrying a passport

Mmmmm I see where they have locked up one of their own Generals for ripping cash of vendor.  So I don't think they will bork too much about getting right into you and any other Falungs that can't produce your original Passport when requested.  Thai Elite cardmember, he will go down as well.

[DrTuner]

 Lots of talk about nothing. Apart from the stricter overstay penalties, these are all announcements of the 1979 Immigration Act being enforced. 35 year old rules from an era when there were commies trying to come in from the North.

 

 It's not this devil that you should be scared of, the Act is there for every one to read and apart from the nutty reporting requirements to the local police offices in Section 37, it's reasonably solid. It's what will happen after the reforms start. And the insight into that legislative process is likely to be absolutely zero.