Interesting article: Is the game up for unlicensed schools?

[brucetefl]

If you believe that then you have never tried to run an English school in Thailand.

 

 

Ya I can see that.  If I was going to scam people I would avoid the obvious choices of drugs and gambling and fraud schemes and start a phony school teaching English.  Big bucks from the kids paying some back packer 20 baht an hour to teach them how to play games on the internet.  

 

[thailiketoo]

If you believe that then you have never tried to run an English school in Thailand.

 

 

Ya I can see that.  If I was going to scam people I would avoid the obvious choices of drugs and gambling and fraud schemes and start a phony school teaching English.  Big bucks from the kids paying some back packer 20 baht an hour to teach them how to play games on the internet.  

 

 I was being facetious. 

[Loaded]

(Reply to deleted post edited out)

 

The article is about unlicensed formal, and non-formal, schools. It's reporting a NCPO directive to act against unlicensed schools. It doesn't mention TEFL courses.

 

Anyway, if illegal unlicensed and unregulated schools are closed, why would that be a bad thing?

 

Edited August 4, 2014 by Scott

[Jay W]

All this is conjecture, the way I see this article the author has taken a simple routine letter sent out by NCPO to all govt departments and shaped it to his own agenda to suggest all TEFL trainers should be licenced. His whole argument is based on speculation, with no real evidence they have any concern about TEFL trainers or whether they do or do not fall under formal or non-formal schools. How about doing a proper job and getting comments from several legal experts.  He then goes on to assume it as fact, warning all potential students off so-called unlicensed schools. How very convenient. Forget the argument about licensing - this seems like an attempt to discredit or disable his competition. 

[Scott]

Considering the number of crackdowns in all kinds of areas.  Is there some reason to believe this won't be on the agenda?

 

[Loaded]

All this is conjecture, the way I see this article the author has taken a simple routine letter sent out by NCPO to all govt departments and shaped it to his own agenda to suggest all TEFL trainers should be licenced. His whole argument is based on speculation, with no real evidence they have any concern about TEFL trainers or whether they do or do not fall under formal or non-formal schools. How about doing a proper job and getting comments from several legal experts.  He then goes on to assume it as fact, warning all potential students off so-called unlicensed schools. How very convenient. Forget the argument about licensing - this seems like an attempt to discredit or disable his competition. 

 

He doesn't mention TEFL schools in the article. Quote where he mentions TEFL schools.

 

The Private Education Act says education businesses need to be licensed. He quotes from the Act.

 

If it's conjecture, nothing will happen.

 

Anyway, I'll ask again, if illegal unlicensed and unregulated schools are closed, why would that be a bad thing?

 

 

[brucetefl]

There is nothing wrong with schools being licensed.  And nothing wrong with the laws being enforced.

 

But would the New York Times post an article about Gun Control written by the head of the NRA?  Posted as fact instead of opinion?

 

This guy has an agenda and wants to close down his competitors.  If the article is to be posted on a TEFL site it should be by someone who does not have an obvious bias.  Its really unprofessional, in my opinion.

 

I will say again--if I had EVER try to pull this stunt (and I have always been able to) the Thailand TEFL crowd would have burned me at the stake.

 

lets take it one step farther.  My wife was the head of the Non-formal Education committee of Rayong and had many connections in Bangkok as well.  What if I had used my connections to try to close down my competitors.  I would love to know if he has tried something similar in Chiang Mai.  In fact, I think I will have to start investigating.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2014 by brucetefl

[Loaded]

Are you suggesting, Bruce, that he ordered the NCPO to issue this directive? lol

Edited August 4, 2014 by Loaded

[Loaded]

 

lets take it one step farther.  My wife was the head of the Non-formal Education committee of Rayong and had many connections in Bangkok as well.  What if I had used my connections to try to close down my competitors.  I would love to know if he has tried something similar in Chiang Mai.  In fact, I think I will have to start investigating.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that what non-formal education committees should be doing? Ensuring laws, rules and regulations are followed. IE closing down illegal unlicensed schools.

[brucetefl]

it would be a clear conflict of interest if my wife was involved in a TEFL school and actively trying to close other TEFL schools. Wouldn't it? That certainly wouldn't fly back home.

[Loaded]

it would be a clear conflict of interest if my wife was involved in a TEFL school and actively trying to close other TEFL schools. Wouldn't it? That certainly wouldn't fly back home.

 

If she was acting in her role of the head of the non-formal education Committee, it wouldn't matter. She would be fulfilling her responsibilities to close illegal unlicensed schools.
 

[Loaded]

it would be a clear conflict of interest if my wife was involved in a TEFL school and actively trying to close other TEFL schools. Wouldn't it? That certainly wouldn't fly back home.

 

I'll ask you as well, where does it say in the article anything about TEFL schools?

 

Why are you being so emotional about this Bruce?
 

[brucetefl]

of course it would be a conflict of interest. If this were in the United States she would have asked to remove herself from the situation.

I'm not emotional at all. I just think it's a pretty dirty trick that this guy's writing articles pretending that he's an authority when he's not. Pretending that he's got some inside information that he doesn't seem to really have.

[Loaded]

of course it would be a conflict of interest. If this were in the United States she would have asked to remove herself from the situation.

I'm not emotional at all. I just think it's a pretty dirty trick that this guy's writing articles pretending that he's an authority when he's not. Pretending that he's got some inside information that he doesn't seem to really have.

 

It's a directive from the NCPO. That's not an education committee.
 

[brucetefl]

and that he has no agenda when he clearly does.

[brucetefl]

yes and his article was mostly wild speculation mostly meant to cause fear in his potential customers. I think that's all fairly obvious.

[Loaded]

yes and his article was mostly wild speculation mostly meant to cause fear in his potential customers. I think that's all fairly obvious.

 

Why would he want to cause fear in his potential customers? That doesn't sound sensible.

 

Where does it mention TEFL, TEFL training or TEFL training centres in the article?
 

[brucetefl]

he never mentioned the TEFL schools.you are exactly right. I wonder why you didn't? it would have been far better for him to mention TEFL schools. he should have been very upfront. He should have told everyone that he owns a TEFL school. He should have been transparent. By writing this big speculative article he simply comes off as disingenuous.

[brucetefl]

by the way, my apologies for spelling errors and typographical errors. I am using my phone and it's not easy haha turn right. Autocorrect is driving me crazy

[Loaded]

he never mentioned the TEFL schools.you are exactly right. I wonder why you didn't? it would have been far better for him to mention TEFL schools. he should have been very upfront. He should have told everyone that he owns a TEFL school. He should have been transparent. By writing this big speculative article he simply comes off as disingenuous.

 

The article wasn't about TEFL schools, It was about formal and non-formal unlicensed schools.
 

[brucetefl]

it's really quite simple. It's a matter of ethics.when there is a conflict of interests you walk away. When you have an agenda you state that agenda openly. it's why I never hide under fake names. What I say is what I mean and you know that I'm biased because of my position.

[greenchair]

What a load of rubbish. I have heard many interpretation of the 7 student law.it reads. if you belong in these 3 catergory no need to follow the opec regulations.
(1) if u have less than 7 students. It does not mention anything about more than 7 students. In my understanding, it means you cannot apply for a license with an empty school. I have heard 3 interpretations from the ministry.
More than 7 students per day.
More than 7 name on the books at one time. And now yours. More than 7 since the business started.
Actually all of these so called illegal agencies are fully protected by the constitution , madra 6,50,52 intellectual right to learn. National education act madra 24(6)the state must support anyone to learn any place, anytime. And madra 18(3) which require no license in that category. Both higher than opec. Home tutor come under another forgotten act that is equal to opec. Non formal - informal education act. Most people including most working at opec have never laid eyes on it.in that act there is no law of number of learner. In fact it says at the end that we are governed by few laws and the state must support us.
Definition
Formal. If you provide points that can be used as a means to continue to a higher learning institute.
Non formal. Same as above.
Informal.a place of learning that family, people, community, can attend by free choice and does have formal grading system. So someone who Wants to get toeic score can come to me to practice, but when they need to test and get grade they must attend a non formal school like ecc. If I lie and tell them I can issue a certificate, I am breaking, the law of opec. I am the first person in the history of Thailand to be prosecuted over this 7 student fallacy. I fought my case without a lawyer because nobody wants to read the informal act. The judge will decide on the meaning of that law this month. As for the danger thing and facilities. The opec act section 7 clearly states if any premise is a danger or not of their liking, it is their duty to provide another premise. The only person who has the right to close any center of learning, is the minister of education himself. Informal act,18 paragraph 3 I think.

[Loaded]

The Private Education Act states

 

"Section 5.
This Act shall not apply to
(1) An educational establishment having a total of not exceeding 7 students."

 

http://www.ctlo.com/mediacenter/Publications/2011-03-28-PrivateSchoolAct-En.pdf

 

IE it applies to educational establishments that have over 7 students.

 

I have no idea whether it applies to "illegal agencies". It probably doesn't. The article talks about unlicensed schools.

 

I also have no idea about home tutoring and whether the act applies to this. I imagine the authorities would not be interested in home tutoring unless the business becomes a school. IE regular paid classes, advertising etc. Then it becomes an educational establishment. You asked a similar question before and a lawyer answered your question.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/736863-does-home-tutor-need-building-licence/#entry8009803

 

However, speak with your local MoE office to get the authoritative answer to your home tutoring question. It's their interpretation that matters.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by Loaded

[greenchair]

1) formal, non formal ,informal are all legal edu establishments.
2) it applies to over 7 student that falls into formal, non formal criteria. Ie providing legitimate grading and certification.
Like the non credited international schools, who tell parents their child can continue studies abroad. When infact. The credits they review can only be applied in thai international schools.
3) both informal and national edu act state we are entitled to receive. Money for service (tax free ).
4) the lawyer only told me why the district office wanted the license, not if he was right or not. I stand by my beliefs. The prosecutor himself thinks I have a good case. The 7 student law and building license law does not apply to informal educators. Persons,parents, families who have valuable knowledge to pass to another human being. We are in Madras 5 (3) of private education act. why would I go to moe who refer me to opec who themselves in my opinion do not know their own law. I will let the judge decide for me.

[greenchair]

Please read the constitution, peoples rights,national education act and informal education act fully as I have and get back to me. I think it is interesting reading for anybody who wants to teach in Thailand.

[Loaded]

1) formal, non formal ,informal are all legal edu establishments.
2) it applies to over 7 student that falls into formal, non formal criteria. Ie providing legitimate grading and certification.
Like the non credited international schools, who tell parents their child can continue studies abroad. When infact. The credits they review can only be applied in thai international schools.
3) both informal and national edu act state we are entitled to receive. Money for service (tax free ).
4) the lawyer only told me why the district office wanted the license, not if he was right or not. I stand by my beliefs. The prosecutor himself thinks I have a good case. The 7 student law and building license law does not apply to informal educators. Persons,parents, families who have valuable knowledge to pass to another human being. We are in Madras 5 (3) of private education act. why would I go to moe who refer me to opec who themselves in my opinion do not know their own law. I will let the judge decide for me.

 

fair enough
 

[khunyod]

it's really quite simple. It's a matter of ethics.when there is a conflict of interests you walk away. When you have an agenda you state that agenda openly. it's why I never hide under fake names. What I say is what I mean and you know that I'm biased because of my position.

 

It seems to me that the term "conflict of interests" (sic) is not well understood here. Just because someone would benefit from good government policy does not at all mean one cannot champion that policy. That is ludicrous! Everyone benefits from good government policy. There is no conflict of interest, there is an alignment of interest. It seems to me that pointing out that competitors break the law and thereby have an unfair advantage is not whining nor is it underhanded. The only people who would make such a claim should be the criminals themselves.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest

[brucetefl]

Well here is something similar, in as something as innocuous as American College Football.

 

The former Athletic Director of a university will not vote for his former team in any way.

 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11309550/tom-osborne-recused-voting-nebraska-cornhuskers-college-poll

 

Its ok to be biased.  I have posted here many times saying something like this:

 

"check out the BA TESOL at Thongsook.  It might be perfect for you, but of course I am biased."

 

Or something like this:

 

"I am the head of the NRA and I want to tell you my ideas on gun control."

 

But how would you feel about this?  Same guy writes an article and says the following:

 

"I am a gun owner and I have inside information that the government is going to come take away your guns."  And then proceeds on with a lot of obvious speculation and self serving fear mongering.  never mentioning he is the head of the NRA.

 

This last one OBVIOUSLY crossed the line.  And its pretty similar to that article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Loaded]

Well here is something similar, in as something as innocuous as American College Football.

 

The former Athletic Director of a university will not vote for his former team in any way.

 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11309550/tom-osborne-recused-voting-nebraska-cornhuskers-college-poll

 

Its ok to be biased.  I have posted here many times saying something like this:

 

"check out the BA TESOL at Thongsook.  It might be perfect for you, but of course I am biased."

 

Or something like this:

 

"I am the head of the NRA and I want to tell you my ideas on gun control."

 

But how would you feel about this?  Same guy writes an article and says the following:

 

"I am a gun owner and I have inside information that the government is going to come take away your guns."  And then proceeds on with a lot of obvious speculation and self serving fear mongering.  never mentioning he is the head of the NRA.

 

This last one OBVIOUSLY crossed the line.  And its pretty similar to that article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow!!!!!

 

The article is written by a licensed school director quoting a directive from the NCPO that unlicensed (illegal) non-formal and formal schools will be investigated. Licensed (legal) schools have nothing to fear. Only unlicensed (illegal) schools should be worried.

 

Maybe change your line to:

 

"I am a legal gun owner and I have inside information that the government is going to come take away your illegal guns. I am the head of the NRA" 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by Loaded

[greenchair]

I don't know about those 2posts .but thank you loaded for your comments. I know this is your post and I have jumped on your wagon so to speak. But I have been fighting the 7student law for almost 2years. I also see in the as alien work act section 4 (6) it says the act does not apply if you are involved in education stipulated by royal decree which I imagine means Madras (50) (49) (52) in the constitution Which protects all types of education. I may be wrong, but for all those married people out there with no wp maybe you dont need one after all