Severs Delerium Tremens and ICU and survival odds

[firegirl]

Hello, I have been living in Pattaya for the past 6 years and am praying someone can help or advise me. My boyfriend, 39 yrs. old, suffered 2 seizures from alcohol withdrawals, sever electrolyte imbalance, very high blood pressure, inflammed liver, infection and fever. He has been at a private hospital since that time and on day 2 the extreme DTs started. It is the most frightening thing I have ever witnessed, he is completely restrained and no medication can relax him for more than 5 minutes. I am told days 2 and 3 are the worse then the patient will start to come arounnd somewhat. The staff are lovely and I am confident they are doing their absolute best treating him and answering my question and many concerns.

I would love to be able to speak/hear from anyone that has real experience with this. The language barrier is getting in the way, my Thai is OK but with all the medical language, my Thai stands zero chance. I am in real dire straights here emotionally and researching all I can about DTs is very scary and the facts paralyze me with fear, as it should. Please, if anybody can come along and share a success story, I would be so grateful. Thank you for reading my post, take care.

[firegirl]

I meant to post in the title severe Delerium Tremens.

[alfalfa19]

If he's under competent medical care, that's the best you can hope for really. I have seen this up close, having worked in a detox facility. Severe alcoholics have it pretty bad when it comes to withdrawals, much worse than heroin addicts. The medication should keep him OK for more than 5 minutes, however. Are they giving him Phenobarbital?

[GrahamF]

When I was in detox the docs gave me Librium (sp), which stopped all the withdrawal symptoms. You should only be on Librium for a couple of days as it can be addictive. I was also given an anti-anxiety drug and Thiamine for a couple of days.

I wish you both the best!

[h90]

I wish the best.....

[curtklay]

Watching a loved one go through severe alcohol withdrawal is very frightening. My mother had seizures after "drying out", and they would strike without warning. It was terrifying when it happened at home or in the grocery store. The doctors prescribed an anti-epilepsy drug called "dilantin" which did help when she would take them. The positive side is that the withdrawal symptoms will stop after the person gets sober for a while. The problem then becomes staying off the alcohol. My mother couldn't stay sober for long, and would repeat the cycle again. She lived in denial, wouldn't even consider professional help, and died in her 50's. Not a success story, but the hard truth.

Your boyfriend needs to join Alcoholics Anonymous, and really want to stay sober. It's a lifelong commitment and not easy. He's already done a lot of damage to his body. If he doesn't stop drinking completely, he won't be around long. When he gets out of the hospital, find your nearest AA chapter and go with him. He will need a lot of support, and he will need to be frightened enough to not relapse. For your sake, I hope he can fully realize what he is doing to both of you, and stop destroying himself.

[firegirl]

Thank you all for your repilies. Yes, Thiamine has been given. I asked about phenobarbital for anti-seizure and the doctor said it would be too strong so they went with Diazapam. I tried to question it but did not get a clear answer. Librium, (sp) I have been researching and sounds great, that is on my list of questions for tomorrow.

I visited him tonight and he was sleeping again, so , finally after a few days he is at least able to get some amount of rest,2 hours, and free from his combative psychosis. I do not know which drug they have given to relax him this time. All the nurses tell me is that they have administered an injection, no name. Nothing has worked until this past afternoon so it must be a step forward, even if it's a small one.

My goals for tomorrow are to speak to his doctor and write down names of drugs given and find out about Librium and a better explanation about this diazapam instead of Phenobarbital.

Also, he is completely restrained, adding to his misery. This is needed, he has so much energy to fight and yell. Due to costs, he will have to be moved, I cannot afford 50,000-60,000 a day for more than 2 more days. I am praying his condition will improve on day 4 and 5 so this could be a possibility. Which hospital would you recommend for this particluar situation?

Thank you all so very much for your well wishes and input, it is comforting to know that people can and do get through this, even though it is pure hell. Good night and take care.

[mrtoad]

Diazepam is effective, but should not be used or an alternative such as Lorazepam if the liver is impaired, fast acting Benzos are lighter on the liver. For Psychosis often some smallness doses of IM Haldol are used. A Vit B Injection should be undertaken, and a course of Thiamine. Generally if Librium is used it'll be for 7-10 days. Benzo based meds should not be continued over 30 days due to them being addictive. I wish you al the best.

Librium is available probably known by the hospital as Chlordiazopoxide. For reference most of the drugs used to treat withdrawal are old drugs and very cheap. 50-60k per day is quite frankly a ludicrous amount of money for a fairly standard TX protocol, I am guessing Bangkok Pattaya?

It may be worth looking at options of a cheaper private hospital in Bangkok, or a suitable government hospital with the correct Doctors.

[firegirl]

CurtKlay, thank you and yes you are more than 100% correct, he needs AA and every bit of support and what he has done to himself and his family and friends is unacceptable and he MUST completely change his life or die. i am sorry for your experiences with your mother, thank you for sharing your honest story.

Mr.Toad, Thank you for the information, I have written down your medications for the various issues and am headed to the hospital to speak with the doctor. You are correct, Bangkok Pattaya hospital and i will get some recommendations about moving him.

Thank you everyone for your replies, i appreciate the help and support. Have a good day and take care.

[curtklay]

Stay strong. Your boyfriend is very lucky to have you fighting for him. I hope he knows that. I'm sure a lot of people have given up on him already. He has a long road ahead, but he can still make it if he wants to. Think positive, and a little praying won't hurt either.

You will also need a lot of patience trying to get information from his doctors. In Thailand, doctors have a bigger God complex than in the US (believe it or not). Patients just follow their instructions, and don't ask questions. My experience is they get irritated when you seek information, or question their methods. Don't let them intimidate you. You deserve to know what they are doing. Remain calm (if possible) but insist on having a dialog with them regarding his present treatment, and the course to follow in the future.

[big carl]

Well I feel for you and I am going to tell you the truth. Makes not one iota of difference if you understand the treatment or not. The longer he is with out the drink the better he will get. Many of us have been through it some with drugs some with out. Makes no difference the important thing is we did not pick up the first drink again.

As far as I am concerned you have doctors who are trained in this and advice from some who have information.

What I am going to suggest to you is that you try to find an ALANON group. They are people who have been where you are and seen all the games we who are alcoholic can and do play. Some of them we think are brilliant and in reality are stupid. They will show you how to live with him no matter what his actions are. You will learn to have a life of your own. Even if it involves a tempera separation or a permanent one.

I like the way a friend of mine put it. AA gave him a life of his own and Alanon gave his wife a life of her own. It was like looking at the two rails on a rail road train bed in a straight line. They stay together as far as you can see them and eventually in the distance look like one rail.

Don't worry about him as you said he is already getting better. Start thinking about your self.

Sorry to sound so harsh but those are the realities.

[firegirl]

Thank you Curtklay, absolutely on the praying!! I am lucky so far as the doctors have been pretty great. I ask a million questions about their treatments and methods and so far they have been very accomodating. They have given me print-outs for every test and diagnosis and treatment since the day he was admitted. Your not joking though, to get this information is a mission and persistance is key. I am learning to just get tough with them as the days pass.

My guy is eating all his meals now and drinking water and juice. he is also taking some of his medication orally when they catch him in the right 'mood'. He is still extremely delusional and having some intense hallucinations. Thank god the hallucinations seem to be pretty decent. Apparently, today, Jimmy Cliff paid him a visit and played a concert for him and he also is convinced we are booked in at a great hotel on Koh Samed where the food is marvelous. At times, he makes some sense and remembers things like his high blood pressure and about having seizures and can recollect his meals. I take this a good sign even though we are far from a stable condition. His blood presure is a major issue, when they try and reduce the drugs, he gets crazy mad and his BP sky rockets. i guess we are only on Day 4 so it;s still the beginning. fingers crossed for improvement tomorrow.

Big Carl, ALANON sounds like the type of group I need to get associated with ASAP. I really like the railroad track analogy. You are not harsh at all, the truth is what it is. Thank you for your honesty, it's the best and most kind way to speak to someone that asks for advice.

You guys have been a comfort to me and I really appreciate being able to read your comments after a long and crazy day at the hospital. Day 5 is approaching and I'm praying he will improve, it has to happen at some point. good night to all of you. Thanks again and take care.

[curtklay]

Keep the faith, Firegirl. You guys will make it, one day at a time.

I wish I could have attended that Jimmy Cliff concert with him! ...( just thought you could use a laugh )

[firegirl]

Update. He is much better today and semi-normal, still confused about events and short-term memory isn't the best. It's the blood pressure still, the doctor is reducing the drugs slowly to control the withdrawals, hopefully he will keep responding well. He's mainly bored and antsy to get out. A few more days to go, he is being moved to a normal room tomorrow.

The real challenge will begin the second he walks out of the hospital. Now he must choose life or death, no other option.

Thank you all so much for your support and advice, I am grateful for this community. Good night and take care!!

[impulse]

Now he must choose life or death, no other option.

Thank you all so much for your support and advice, I am grateful for this community. Good night and take care!!

Best of luck to both of you.

Keep in mind that you too have some life or death choices to make.

Like Big Carl, I'd recommend trying an Al-anon meeting or two.

[firegirl]

Another update, he has been moved from IMCU to the psychiatric ward, some interesting characters there. He is off the IV benzos and will take them orally now, only his Thiamine drip is left. Who knows how many days he'll be there but at least the price has been significantly reduced. Still cannot grasp what is going on and right now, i think it's a good thing until his body repairs more. He does have alcoholic hepatitis and encyphilitis(sp) to deal with as well.

Thank you and take care.

[impulse]

Another update, he has been moved from IMCU to the psychiatric ward, some interesting characters there. He is off the IV benzos and will take them orally now, only his Thiamine drip is left. Who knows how many days he'll be there but at least the price has been significantly reduced. Still cannot grasp what is going on and right now, i think it's a good thing until his body repairs more. He does have alcoholic hepatitis and encyphilitis(sp) to deal with as well.

Thank you and take care.

Great news.

Now, if you can stand some confrontation, what actions are you taking to care for your own well being?

You're valuable. Please acknowledge that and take care of yourself.

Keep posting back to let us know how you are doing. Thanks.

[firegirl]

Thanks Impulse! I am making sure I get to bed before midnight and letting myself sleep until I wake up, no alarms. When he is asleep, I read and try to leave the updates via facebook and SMS alone for awhile so I am not all consumed. Today i have decided I need to do a 'me' thing so I am catching up with some shows, making soup and doing laundry. i know he is well looked after in this hospital and is in the sleeping all the time phase so i can finally relax. his mother will be here Tuesday to relieve me of in-home care so I can get back to work. iI actually miss work these days.

Thank you for all of your support and love. I need to go to an Alanon meeting and I want to bring his mom with me as well. Thaank you and take care!

[big carl]

Thanks Impulse! I am making sure I get to bed before midnight and letting myself sleep until I wake up, no alarms. When he is asleep, I read and try to leave the updates via facebook and SMS alone for awhile so I am not all consumed. Today i have decided I need to do a 'me' thing so I am catching up with some shows, making soup and doing laundry. i know he is well looked after in this hospital and is in the sleeping all the time phase so i can finally relax. his mother will be here Tuesday to relieve me of in-home care so I can get back to work. iI actually miss work these days.

Thank you for all of your support and love. I need to go to an Alanon meeting and I want to bring his mom with me as well. Thaank you and take care!

About going to Alanon. Try to look ate it this weary. Your boy friend didn't go to AA and look what it got him. The sooner you go to an Alanon meeting the better of you will be.

As you say he is on the road to recovery now and in good hands. Your turn.

[firegirl]

The day has arrived for my boyfirend to come home. Any thoughts on how to deal with his anger and depression in this particular situation? Nutrition plays a big part in keeping the body and mind healthy, I have lots of organic produce and meats for his B vitamins and electrolyte levels and multi-vitamins. Other than that, I am kinda worried, he's been grouchy the last few days, and I would be as well, this is a scary transition for him and me. He is already trying to push himself back into work, which he is physically not ready for and certainly not mentally ready for the club scene yet.

Any advice on what to definitely not say to a recovering alcoholic? Just want to keep the peace in my home and not argue.

Thanks for your time and support, it has helped me get through those scary DT days. Take care and have a great Sunday!!

[impulse]

Enjoy YOUR life. He can take care of himself, even if you're in the same house.

Keep in mind that everything he's going through is a direct result of his own actions. Not your fault, and not your responsibility to fix it. (Edit: And not within your ability to fix it, either) And anything you do to shield him from those consequences can just make it easier for him to continue the behavior that sent him to the detox ward.

If he gets crabby, leave for awhile and go have some fun. If he's still crabby when you get back, leave for a while longer and have even more fun. If it gets tense for you, take a holiday.

You've earned it.

[Patsycat]

Good luck. This is when the tough love has to come in.

[big carl]

Good luck. This is when the tough love has to come in.

Just want to empathize that point again. I don't know Patsycat but I believe she/he is speaking from experience.

Work with him but do not be his yes dear girl or agree with any stupid things he comes up with. Believe me we are incredibly able to come up with the flimsiest ideas that are in fact just self serving and will do us more harm than good. the club scene should at this time be a definite no no. Even if that is how he makes his living.

He may say how do I make my living then. At this point you remind him he was not making his living there he was buying an early death on the installment plan. Remind him he almost made it next time he might not be that lucky.

On another note I have known women to walk away from their man because they loved him so much it was killing them watching him kill himself.

[curtklay]

I will also emphasize "tough love". It's the only way. If he thinks he can manipulate you, you will be amazed at how insidious he will become. It will be a Jekyll and Hyde situation. As said, many partners are pushed to the point where they just have to walk away. We all hope that won't happen to you. He really has to want to stay sober. A half-hearted effort will fail. You will know if he's sincere or not.

You alluded to "the club scene". Does he own or work in a club/bar? If so, you are dealing with a nearly impossible situation. He can't be in that atmosphere, and remain sober. If at age 39, he has already destroyed his liver, and is having seizures and hallucinations, the only way for him to succeed is to never take that first drink again for the rest of his life. The reality is that won't happen if he spends his time in a club. He can't even walk through the door.

[Patsycat]

Yes, i did the tough love with a boyfriend. He was a DJ!! He was in and out of clinics and psych wards for about three years. I was young (25) and put my life on hold for a long time to try and be there and help him and clean up after him. He hid booze everywhere, toilet cistern, laundry basket, even in bushes for when he suddenly took an interest for taking the dog out...

I did walk away, and felt guilty for it. But, I needed to live too. My flat was trashed, i almost lost my job etc. But love is blind, i guess.

I hope the OP understands that a week or two of drying out will not change her boyfriend overnight. Especially if he works in the Night Club scene.

[firegirl]

Thnak you, Impulse, Patseycat and Kurtklay. He has as much time off work, musician at night club, for as long as he needs. I agree 100%, his job will make sobriety next to impossible. There are sober members of his band that just don't drink but they have never been alcoholics, easy for them. I hope he will choose them as awork support network. It's all up to him and what he wants for his future. I know I don't want to deal with an alcoholic ever again. He has been told if he drinks, he dies alone, my words and I mean it. That scares him terribly but how much until the that urge hits him again? I am here to support and talk and do healthy activities with him but not indulge him in the BS.

We have a friend that used be a raging alcoholic and 3 months ago got himself sober. He is more than willing to be a support system and speak with my boyfirend anytime, he lives in our complex and always available. My BF needs AA or something similar now. I am gonna give him all the info on where and when it takes place locally and it's up to him to go, he has to want it, not me. I can want and pray all day but it won't make a difference. Right now, he is still so off balance that walking to the bathroom is more than enough and he is sleeping a lot due to the medication he must take. His mom gets here on Tuesday and I can return to work and put distance between this ordeal, I have a life to attend to and if he wants to be part of my healthy life, he's more than welcome, he knows the alternative, die alone.

You guys have been great and I like the truths you give me, no sugar coating it. Your experiences are invaluable to me and gives the strength to not feel guilty and go about my life as planned and take no BS from him or his reasonings for wanting to drink anymore. I hope all of you have a wonderful and that you always take care. Thanks again for the support and care!!

[curtklay]

WOW...let me tell you, as a former musician myself, he has major changes ahead if he wants to stay sober. Partying is part of a musician's lifestyle. My problem wasn't alcohol, it was drugs. They were everywhere, usually free, and it was abnormal not to partake. It is probably the worst situation for a substance abuser to be in. The hardest choice I ever had to make was quitting the music business, but when I got married I couldn't justify the lifestyle. Out on the road, the temptations of drugs, alcohol, and other women are overwhelming. To gain the stability my marriage required, I quit the business, and went the 9 to 5 route. It has not been easy, and I miss my former life. Many times I even feel guilty for "rejecting my muse", and giving up the career I felt destined for. But we have been happily married (mostly) for over 40 years. If I had not made that choice, I would be dead and gone.

Your boyfriend has a lot of self-examination and hard choices ahead.

[impulse]

On the flipside:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_teetotalers

Not that I suggest he jump right back into the lifestyle, just that he doesn't have to dread a lifetime without his music.

But he won't have anything if his sobriety doesn't come first. Nada, zip, zilch. The Big Chill. Because right along with this list, there's a list of celebrities that have choked to death on their own vomit.

And if that paints a nasty, disgusting picture- I have achieved my objective.

[gerryBScot]

thx firegirl for sharing and starting this thread and indeed to the others for contributing. It has reminded me to feel grateful I am sober this morning and can function like a normal human being. what's terrifying is that we often go out and drink again after the circumstances firegirl has described. it really is insanity. god luck today to all sober drunks and more strength to our loved ones.

[Patsycat]

Just checking in - hope things are ok with you and your boyfriend.