Advance Passenger Information, Dual Nationality and Replacement for e-Borders

[Richard W]

I'm splitting this off from "Thai Wife Getting British Passport Then Returning To Thailand" as it probably deserves a thread of its own.
 

As I said above, at one time my wife had a Thai passport in her maiden name and a British passport in her married one. We booked round trip tickets in her married name and when checking in to leave the UK simply overcame this name discrepancy between her Thai passport and her ticket by showing the airline check in desk both passports.

On leaving Thailand she showed her British passport to the airline when checking in, to show she did not need a UK visa, and her Thai passport to Thai immigration to show she was a Thai citizen and so had not overstayed. Had immigration wanted to see her boarding pass as well then, again she could easily have cleared up the name difference by showing tem her British passport.

Note that she was face to face with immigration officers and those authorising embarkation. Advance Passenger Information (API) allows an immigration officer in the destination country to prohibit embarkation. Some gleefully anticipate cost savings, as well as even better exclusion of asylum-seekers.

Imagine, in the near future, a British-Thai dual national flying for a three-month visit to Thailand without any visas. If he books as British, he may be told at check-in, 'Thailand has ordered us not to let you on the plane'. If lucky, he will be told it is because he has no onward flight within 30 days. If he books as Thai, on checking in at Swampy, he may be told, 'The British government has told us not to let you on the plane.' If lucky, he will be told that it is because he has no visa for Britain. In a worse scenario, the reason will be withheld for 'security reasons'. One hopes that the matter can be resolved between arrival at check-in and final call, but with the decision maker (if contactable) at the other end, I have my forebodings.

Now an intelligent person might suggest that API should allow one to record multiple passports - some people currently reasonably use three for a round trip! However, the position one encounters is 'Use one passport for the whole trip', though this appears to mean 'Use one nationality for the whole trip'.
 

Both Thailand and the UK allow dual nationality. So entering and leaving Thailand with a Thai passport and entering and leaving the UK with a British one is not going to cause any problems, even if either government does finds out, unless either government changes their position on dual nationality which is extremely unlikely.

Non sequitur. There's at least one country that allows dual nationality but does not allow its nationals to hold both a national and a foreign passport. US security clearance tolerates a second nationality - provided a corresponding foreign passport is not held.

Even being pulled to one side and lectured on the need to tell the Home Office about foreign passports held is something one would prefer to avoid.
 

As question 1.9 on form AN asks about the applicant's other nationality(ies) then unless the applicant makes a false declaration on the form any move such as that suggested by the House of Lords wont effect them. Of course, if an applicant does make any false declaration then, in my opinion, they deserve to be stripped not only of their British passport, but their British nationality as well; which the current law allows.

It's not clear that all nationalities should be entered on the naturalisation form. Indeed, many people possess nationalities that they are unaware of - partly because they confound having a nationality and having a passport.

Dual nationality is not just held by those who acquire an extra nationality - many people have multiple nationalities from birth. The suggestion of cancelling passports was against those who concealed a foreign passport, not those who concealed a foreign nationality. Remember that foreign passports are asked for when one applies for the Crown to bestow the privilege of having a British passport. A list of dual nationals is being compiled for some reason or other - one hopes it is just so that advance passenger information enables the tracking of people rather than the tracking of passports.

[David48]

Interesting ... 

[7by7]

Scaremongering more like!

 

BTW, the topic in question was about a dual Thai/British national and my response, partially quoted in the OP, was to that situation; not that of US nationals who may hold a different nationality.

 

As far as I am aware US nationals who also hold another nationality must enter the USA with their US passport; but, from reading posts on here, I believe that they may hold another countries passport and, for example, a dual Thai/US national is at liberty to use their Thai passport to enter Thailand.

 

Maybe an American member would like to comment on that specific point?

 

Yes, I know that dual or multiple nationality may also be acquired through birth, not just naturalisation; but again the topic you have quoted me from is about naturalisation.

 

If when applying for  British passport the applicant is asked what other nationalities they hold and if they lie, then they are guilty of attempting to obtain a British passport by deception and deserve the full penalty of the law.

 

Answer me this; why would any country where dual nationality is allowed, e.g. the UK and Thailand, want to stop any of their nationals entering the country simply because they hold one or more other nationalities as well?

[Richard W]

BTW, the topic in question was about a dual Thai/British national and my response, partially quoted in the OP, was to that situation; not that of US nationals who may hold a different nationality.

The point was that accepting dual nationality and accepting multiple passports are not the same. I fear the IT problems may make multiple passports even less welcome to the authorities.
 

As far as I am aware US nationals who also hold another nationality must enter the USA with their US passport; but, from reading posts on here, I believe that they may hold another countries passport and, for example, a dual Thai/US national is at liberty to use their Thai passport to enter Thailand.

Opinions differ on what passport may be listed in the API for a flight from the US to Thailand. Like the UK, the passport 'check' on exit is furnished by the API for the departing flight. Some interpret the requirement to 'exit on a US passport' as requiring that passport to be the one listed in the API.
 

Yes, I know that dual or multiple nationality may also be acquired through birth, not just naturalisation; but again the topic you have quoted me from is about naturalisation.

If when applying for  British passport the applicant is asked what other nationalities they hold and if they lie, then they are guilty of attempting to obtain a British passport by deception and deserve the full penalty of the law.

That topic's OP broadened the discussion to include the question of the passport to use for booking a flight.

There is currently no question in the passport application on what nationalities are held, only on what passports are held.
 

Answer me this; why would any country where dual nationality is allowed, e.g. the UK and Thailand, want to stop any of their nationals entering the country simply because they hold one or more other nationalities as well?

Incompetence, not malice. In my example, I assume the only identity information held is that related to the passports used for the booking. If the British passport is used for the booking, Thailand does not know that the traveller is Thai; if the Thai passport is used for the booking, the UK does not know that the traveller is British. Now, if the UK does manage to associate passports, the system may detect that the Thai for whom the the booking was made is also British, and the problem with the return trip should then disappear. This will be more reliable if the Thai passport is obtained before the British passport, for the UK government will already have seen the Thai passport.

Perhaps UK citizens will be allowed to register their new foreign passports with the UK government for a £50 fee.

Now, if the trip is for 4 weeks instead of 3 months, booking with a British passport should work even if boarding permission from Thailand is derived from the booking information, for Thailand will normally intend to grant a visa exemption. Of course, there may be questions in Thailand when the traveller presents a Thai passport instead of a British passport, but I believe that there often are when a blank Thai passport is presented on entry.

[Richard W]

Thailand is planning to introduce the 'Advance Passenger Processing System'. If this is the same as the Australian system, it will be activated at check-in for Thailand. It seems therefore that for the 3-month visit to Thailand, the process will be:

1) Book ticket on British passport to cover whatever the UK intends to do.
2) Check-in for Thailand with Thai passport and get boarding permission from Thailand.
3) On returning, check-in for UK with British passport. The booking information in UK possession will already say the passenger is British, so the traveller will be allowed to board whether checking is done at check-in or before.

Have I missed anything?

[Richard W]

The British system is currently struggling to implement lists of people not allowed into the UK (deported / excluded / notorious) or no-fly 'terrorists'.  It prohibits carriage rather than boarding.  It doesn't yet check for a lack of visas, which is why we have not heard of major problems with the British system wrongly denying carriage.

[samran]

Thailand is planning to introduce the 'Advance Passenger Processing System'. If this is the same as the Australian system, it will be activated at check-in for Thailand. It seems therefore that for the 3-month visit to Thailand, the process will be:

1) Book ticket on British passport to cover whatever the UK intends to do.
2) Check-in for Thailand with Thai passport and get boarding permission from Thailand.
3) On returning, check-in for UK with British passport. The booking information in UK possession will already say the passenger is British, so the traveller will be allowed to board whether checking is done at check-in or before.

Have I missed anything?

The bit where it isn't compulsory to give your passport details when booking the ticket. I very often skip that step given I can't for the life of me remember what my passport details are. My booking is never stopped for skipping that step.

When travelling to Australia I just hand over my OZ passport to the airline and they swipe it and the Australian immigration API tells them I'm okay to travel. And the exit Thailand with my Thai one. Edited August 17, 2014 by samran