Atheism - alive and well in Thailand?

[Hermes100]

Virtually all of my small circle of friends are atheists.

In the year's that I have been here I happily notice more and more local's and others starting to come around to atheism/agnosticism .

I was wondering how many TV member's are and if so, do any group's meet up .

[nidieunimaitre]

I am, and many posters too.

But I don't share your optimism about Thais giving up superstition / religion.

[jayceenik]

A

[Rumblecat]

Never really felt like atheism was the sort of thing where I'd want to meet up- for me it's not a belief in something, it's a lack of belief- like a default setting.

But yes, there are groups that meet up for this sort of thing. Next meeting is Aug 26th.

http://www.meetup.com/Bangkok-Skeptics-in-the-Pub/

[Rumblecat]

Well, no that's not true at all. I know plenty of muslims and none of them think or act that way. They're just normal folk- my best mate is a muslim and I'd struggle to name a smarter person I know, able to debate cheerfully and see both sides of the argument.

Dunno, maybe moslims are something different that I've never come across. Moslims who hate jews and catholics but hate intelligent people even more. Like intelligent people who spell good.

[Mooner]

Amen!

[Hermes100]

Well, no that's not true at all. I know plenty of muslims and none of them think or act that way. They're just normal folk- my best mate is a muslim and I'd struggle to name a smarter person I know, able to debate cheerfully and see both sides of the argument.

Dunno, maybe moslims are something different that I've never come across. Moslims who hate jews and catholics but hate intelligent people even more. Like intelligent people who spell good.

I would totally agree that on a whole Muslims are the one's who dislike atheists the most. I spend lot of time in middle-east.

Seems they take it very personally and would rather have a christian or even a Jew.

I would have a lot of trouble calling anyone smart who really believes totally in whatever religion they subscribe too.

Educated maybe-smart , no.

If for example a Muslim/Christian truly and utterly believes in what is written in the Qur'an/bible they cannot be called "smart'.

They have opted,usually because they have been brain washed at young age ( Muslims are very guilty of this) to suspend all forms of rational logic to belief in things we all know is absurdly wrong-and yet they cling to it.

Smart people do not cling like that.

They see the evidence and go where it leads. They do not cling using the weakest/lamest forms of excuses/logic/rational

They get angry quickly because that is all they can do.

As for locals, well, there is no religion here really,its a bare resemblance of what Buddhism is really all about.A philosophy that because a religion to suit the agenda of those who stil use it today to control the masses.

[noahvail]

My wife has always been an intelligent lady, but of late she has really honed her logic and critical thinking. She still goes to temple for the high days and funerals, but that's just to please the family. The rest of the family and the majority of the village still practice what their concept of Buddhism is, until they get into their car or are at their shop. The regimentations of the mind by the social constructs are rather difficult to break away from.

I might recommend The Skeptics Annotated Bible for your perusal. I got it free at the App Store.

[DogNo1]

You betcha atheism is alive and well in Thailand. The forest monks (Ajahn Cha and others) taught a pure form of Buddhism which says that the way to happiness is to rid yourself of ALL attachments. That would include worshipping the Buddha as a deity. It is my understanding that before his death, Buddha specifically told his followers NOT to worship him and NOT to make any statues of him. Apparently that was followed for about 300 years but as Buddhism spread, it was syncretised with local religions and beliefs. As I've mentioned before, the Vietnamese in the 7th century created Pure Land Buddhism at the center of which was worshipping Buddha as a god. The visiting monks from India were tearing their hair out but they could not convince the Vietnamese to relinquish their beliefs in magical spirits and eventually making Buddha the supreme magical spirit. As many TV members with Buddhists in their families know, many strains of Thai Buddhism include the belief in spirits and the idea that what they do in this life will influence the person or creature that they become when they are reincarnated. These are actually attachments that people become slaves to. There is a rather doctrinaire discussion of Buddhism on another thread which delves into the subject of the nature of pure Buddhism and the concept of rebirth. Sorry but I don't remember its title.

[fvw53]

I do not understand OP

I am a Catholic

Lord Buddha is not considered as the creator of the universe

It means that Buddhism is a religion which is not rejecting or accepting the mono theistic teachings of Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus or Muhammad

I think that true Buddhism does not address the issue of believing in God but rather focuses on the second commandment of Moses i.e. threat your neighbour as you want to be threated yourself etc...

Being married 26 years to a true Buddhist ( no superstition etc..) Thai wife I bless the day that she came into my life and I believe there will be a place in heaven also for her and her 84 year old mother.

[Hermes100]

I do not understand OP

I am a Catholic

Lord Buddha is not considered as the creator of the universe

It means that Buddhism is a religion which is not rejecting or accepting the mono theistic teachings of Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus or Muhammad

I think that true Buddhism does not address the issue of believing in God but rather focuses on the second commandment of Moses i.e. threat your neighbour as you want to be threated yourself etc...

Being married 26 years to a true Buddhist ( no superstition etc..) Thai wife I bless the day that she came into my life and I believe there will be a place in heaven also for her and her 84 year old mother.

[Hermes100]

I respect those who say the truth " I believe ...there will be a place in heaven" is fine. I used to believe in father Christmas. Now I do not because we all know he does not exist.

We also all know that there is not a shred of real evidence of either God's ( all 2000 of them) nor heavens or hell's or vitually anything claimed by any of major relgions.

And yet, as adults we still seem to want to cling to these.

I think the word 'faith' ( accepting something without any evidence) very dangerous.

Would you book a hotel on faith?

Buy a car on faith?

Find the best doctor for your loved one on faith?

No, you would use a logic chain as you do in every other area of your life to decide.

It will be based upon rationality which would weed out who/what is viable.You would not hear '

I choose XXX just because it was written 2000 odd years ago in an old book which can be read 1001 ways, is devoid of substantial evidence, but I was told to just "have faith' so to hell with the logic I apply to everything else, i choose XXX anyway"

Religon exists because is appeals to ones ego ( you are special and loved), allays the fear of death and provides the 'feel good factor" .

Without that one could not expect to see something so utterly flawed still in existence.

A sad statement upon mankind.

[noendtoit]

All true Buddhists are atheists, as they do not believe in any deity. Please, not, however, that I DID NOT say "Thai Buddhists," as they seem to believe in virtually everything that is not real.

[noendtoit]

Never really felt like atheism was the sort of thing where I'd want to meet up- for me it's not a belief in something, it's a lack of belief- like a default setting.

But yes, there are groups that meet up for this sort of thing. Next meeting is Aug 26th.

http://www.meetup.com/Bangkok-Skeptics-in-the-Pub/

Yeh, it does seem silly to meet for nothing, unless you have other commonalities. Like here, perhaps you are all farang. Perhaps atheism is only the vehicle and the real driver is the farangness. I mean, at these meetings, does anyone ever even bother to discuss atheism? My bet is no. Would you allow a farang Catholic to join, so long as he was a decent guy who did not discuss his faith?

[noendtoit]

Well, no that's not true at all. I know plenty of muslims and none of them think or act that way. They're just normal folk- my best mate is a muslim and I'd struggle to name a smarter person I know, able to debate cheerfully and see both sides of the argument.

Dunno, maybe moslims are something different that I've never come across. Moslims who hate jews and catholics but hate intelligent people even more. Like intelligent people who spell good.

I would totally agree that on a whole Muslims are the one's who dislike atheists the most. I spend lot of time in middle-east.

Seems they take it very personally and would rather have a christian or even a Jew.

I would have a lot of trouble calling anyone smart who really believes totally in whatever religion they subscribe too.

Educated maybe-smart , no.

If for example a Muslim/Christian truly and utterly believes in what is written in the Qur'an/bible they cannot be called "smart'.

They have opted,usually because they have been brain washed at young age ( Muslims are very guilty of this) to suspend all forms of rational logic to belief in things we all know is absurdly wrong-and yet they cling to it.

Smart people do not cling like that.

They see the evidence and go where it leads. They do not cling using the weakest/lamest forms of excuses/logic/rational

They get angry quickly because that is all they can do.

As for locals, well, there is no religion here really,its a bare resemblance of what Buddhism is really all about.A philosophy that because a religion to suit the agenda of those who stil use it today to control the masses.

The virgin birth is the one that really throws me. How can anyone believe in that?

But I beg to differ that people that believe this nonsense are not smart. I know some brilliant people that swallow it all hook, line and sinker, and I am always amazed. But the answer is simple; these folks have been brainwashed at a young age, and most are simple incapable of throwing out that seed that has been planted so deep. Jerry Falwell once said, "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life." Unfortunately, he's right. And of all the religions, who are more deeply brainwashed that the Muslims, who are forced to pray five times every day?

[noendtoit]

Well, no that's not true at all. I know plenty of muslims and none of them think or act that way. They're just normal folk- my best mate is a muslim and I'd struggle to name a smarter person I know, able to debate cheerfully and see both sides of the argument.

Dunno, maybe moslims are something different that I've never come across. Moslims who hate jews and catholics but hate intelligent people even more. Like intelligent people who spell good.

I would totally agree that on a whole Muslims are the one's who dislike atheists the most. I spend lot of time in middle-east.

Seems they take it very personally and would rather have a christian or even a Jew.

I would have a lot of trouble calling anyone smart who really believes totally in whatever religion they subscribe too.

Educated maybe-smart , no.

If for example a Muslim/Christian truly and utterly believes in what is written in the Qur'an/bible they cannot be called "smart'.

They have opted,usually because they have been brain washed at young age ( Muslims are very guilty of this) to suspend all forms of rational logic to belief in things we all know is absurdly wrong-and yet they cling to it.

Smart people do not cling like that.

They see the evidence and go where it leads. They do not cling using the weakest/lamest forms of excuses/logic/rational

They get angry quickly because that is all they can do.

As for locals, well, there is no religion here really,its a bare resemblance of what Buddhism is really all about.A philosophy that because a religion to suit the agenda of those who stil use it today to control the masses.

The virgin birth is the one that really throws me. How can anyone believe in that?

But I beg to differ that people that believe this nonsense are not smart. I know some brilliant people that swallow it all hook, line and sinker, and I am always amazed. But the answer is simple; these folks have been brainwashed at a young age, and most are simple incapable of throwing out that seed that has been planted so deep. Jerry Falwell once said, "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life." Unfortunately, he's right. And of all the religions, who are more deeply brainwashed that the Muslims, who are forced to pray five times every day?

[noendtoit]

I do not understand OP

I am a Catholic

Lord Buddha is not considered as the creator of the universe

It means that Buddhism is a religion which is not rejecting or accepting the mono theistic teachings of Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus or Muhammad

I think that true Buddhism does not address the issue of believing in God but rather focuses on the second commandment of Moses i.e. threat your neighbour as you want to be threated yourself etc...

Being married 26 years to a true Buddhist ( no superstition etc..) Thai wife I bless the day that she came into my life and I believe there will be a place in heaven also for her and her 84 year old mother.

Good heavens! Like Jerry Falwell said . . .

[KarenBravo]

I'm an atheist thank God!

[firefox999uk]

In my previous life I have seen suffering, pain and death on a regular basis.

It makes it hard to believe (in my mind) that there is any God or whatever

in any religion or faith.

I have found that the only people to discuss this with, are the people that

have also witnessed the same….in the same situation, not some joe blog

(or councillor) off the street who doesn’t really experience what goes on

in the real world.

Just saying like.

Have a Nice Day.

[nidieunimaitre]

I respect those who say the truth " I believe ...there will be a place in heaven" is fine. I used to believe in father Christmas. Now I do not because we all know he does not exist.

We also all know that there is not a shred of real evidence of either God's ( all 2000 of them) nor heavens or hell's or vitually anything claimed by any of major relgions.

And yet, as adults we still seem to want to cling to these.

I think the word 'faith' ( accepting something without any evidence) very dangerous.

Would you book a hotel on faith?

Buy a car on faith?

Find the best doctor for your loved one on faith?

No, you would use a logic chain as you do in every other area of your life to decide.

It will be based upon rationality which would weed out who/what is viable.You would not hear '

I choose XXX just because it was written 2000 odd years ago in an old book which can be read 1001 ways, is devoid of substantial evidence, but I was told to just "have faith' so to hell with the logic I apply to everything else, i choose XXX anyway"

Religon exists because is appeals to ones ego ( you are special and loved), allays the fear of death and provides the 'feel good factor" .

Without that one could not expect to see something so utterly flawed still in existence.

A sad statement upon mankind.

Sad indeed.

Not even "The Life of Brian" managed to enlighten the believers.

We will just have to wait a few hundred years.

[IMA_FARANG]

Personal opinion only, but the fact you have to join a group of those who proclaim they don't believe in anything tells volumes about your insecurity in just being yourself.

Seriously, why would you want to "join" a group of avowed non-believers anyhow.

And, also why would you "need" to assert your "non-belief" to others to try to convert them.

Frankly, non of it matters anyhow.

Why do you insist on proving you are right?

Think about it.

[GuyL]

I don't even believe in me! (nor in Yoko Ono!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq6ulGCounc

[muratremix]

My Thai wife can't even say I'm Atheist. She keeps saying I'm muslim. It seems, having a religion (even if it is Islam!) better than not having one.

Everytime I hear "muslim" in her mouth, I correct it.

According to Islam I should be beheaded as leaving Islam's punishment is beheading / hanging, good thing I'm not from an Arab country lol

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm an atheist thank God!

--------------------

Myself, I'm a dysleptic Atheist.

I don't believe in Dog.

.

[muratremix]

Personal opinion only, but the fact you have to join a group of those who proclaim they don't believe in anything tells volumes about your insecurity in just being yourself.

Seriously, why would you want to "join" a group of avowed non-believers anyhow.

And, also why would you "need" to assert your "non-belief" to others to try to convert them.

Frankly, non of it matters anyhow.

Why do you insist on proving you are right?

Think about it.

Why are you trying to start a non sense fight here?

An Atheist talking to Theist is like Duck talking to Cat, can't agree on anything as there is no logical common ground.

Atheists are usually feel discriminated among conservative religious people so just like you gather in church, it makes sense to socialize with other logical entities thinking the same way we do. Don't confuse thinking with belief. One requires logic, the other requires blind faith.

[Hermes100]

Personal opinion only, but the fact you have to join a group of those who proclaim they don't believe in anything tells volumes about your insecurity in just being yourself.

Seriously, why would you want to "join" a group of avowed non-believers anyhow.

And, also why would you "need" to assert your "non-belief" to others to try to convert them.

Frankly, non of it matters anyhow.

Why do you insist on proving you are right?

Think about it.

[orosee]

Yeah it seems strange that a group of people should come together because of something they don't have (faith). It's like a club for people who don't own a 1997 red Toyota Corolla.

However, I think that groups like these can be of great help for those who are on the threshold to enlightenment. People who have the seed of doubt, growing but not yet strong enough to abandon the religion that their parents raised them to believe in.

Without atheist groups, they only Council they could turn to would be their priest, and that's about as useful as asking your financial adviser about Royal Skandia.

Sure these things can be learned by books or on the Internet, but hearing from live atheists is certainly preferable.

[elzach]

No Thai can ever be an atheist. Baht = God.

[Hermes100]

Personal opinion only, but the fact you have to join a group of those who proclaim they don't believe in anything tells volumes about your insecurity in just being yourself.

Seriously, why would you want to "join" a group of avowed non-believers anyhow.

And, also why would you "need" to assert your "non-belief" to others to try to convert them.

Frankly, non of it matters anyhow.

Why do you insist on proving you are right?

Think about it.

very typical lame response - 1- which fact are we talking about? I know religious people have big problems with facts. All I asked if groups exist. if they do or not is no evidence that I have any need to join. You need to know the huge difference.

I am glad if they do not just because it exposes the absurdity of religion and the inherent dangers of faith.That is what many atheists like to do.

Sede the mistake you have just made? You assumed something.

In this case it was just fine. In other cases not so and you not of done it had you relied properly upon evidence. eg, there are no facts that I have to join anything , justy as there are no facts the religious can produce.

Plus, your mistake about convert others.Did I use that word? Did anyone else use that word? ...oh dear, for those that believe in talking snakes,etc, this is another common thing they do- put words into others mouths , then object to something they never said.This is part of defense mechanism when they start to feel bad about being on such weak ground.

Its not about having to prove " we are right" we do not have to- we make no assertion. It up to religion to prove its right, not the athesists. And so far, to date,its has been completely unable in every single way to do so.

Atheists sometimes ike to meet not to convert anyone because that is not possible, but often more out of a keen interest to stop the dangers of faith-which you have perfectly demonstrated really do exist.

[nidieunimaitre]

Personal opinion only, but the fact you have to join a group of those who proclaim they don't believe in anything tells volumes about your insecurity in just being yourself.

Seriously, why would you want to "join" a group of avowed non-believers anyhow.

And, also why would you "need" to assert your "non-belief" to others to try to convert them.

Frankly, non of it matters anyhow.

Why do you insist on proving you are right?

Think about it.

>>>don't believe in anything: we trust in logic and science, we have no need to "believe"

>>>insecurity: ??? quite the opposite, no need for a god to give us security

>>>convert / non of it matters: Yes it matters, religion has caused so much suffering - not only religion of course, but ALL BELIEVES, such as communism, free market, racism, male superiority, nationalism, militarism.