Double glazing pros/cons

[SidJames]

Does anyone have any insight into the pros & cons of installing double glazing over single glazing in my windows & doors in our tropical climate?

SJ

[trogers]

Only cost effective on large windows facing the afternoon sun. Small windows can be protected by reflective blackouts.

[KittenKong]

"Does anyone have any insight into the pros & cons of installing double glazing over single glazing in my windows & doors in our tropical climate?"

What are you hoping to achieve?

Sound insulation? Yes, it's effective. More so if the profiles used fit well and have proper seals. (Locally made profiles tend not to do either.)

Heat insulation? Yes, effective also if you are talking about reducing the effect of heat in the air outside being transmitted through the glass or the gaps in the window structure to the air inside (see comment about fit and seals above). If you are talking about radiant heat from sunlight falling directly on the window then it is pretty useless on its own. For that you would need to use special heat-reflective film (like that used on cars) or low-E glass, or put some sort of screen/awning/curtain on the outside of the window which of course prevents the sunlight from falling directly onto the window. Or all three.

Cons? Cant think of any apart from the extra cost.

[KittenKong]

Small windows can be protected by reflective blackouts.

Not everyone wants to live in the dark. I removed the curtains in my condo completely because I like to see my view all the time and so never closed them. I do have slightly tinted film on the glass though.

[chiang mai]

Thai-Ashai glass is one of the better double glazing glass specialists, a Japanese company with a Thai subsidiary, talk to them, they know their business. Try not to go to a Thai reseller, the mark up is horrible - they have an office in Bangkok and they sent someone up to see me when I said I was interested in buying their product, only half a dozen windows - they advised that my existing frames could be re-engineered to accept double glazed units, saved money over buying new windows. They'll tell you that blue/green is the color of glass best suited to heat penetration, go for triple glazed if you want sound proofing - low E glass is the tops but not cheap.

Did it work: no! The windows were cool but the room temperature didn't change, windows are only a small part of the heat problems in houses, concrete buildings are like night storage heaters, you need to take care of roof void ventilation and wall insulation first, double glazing is last on the list because reflective film works just as well.

[SidJames]

Excellent advice given here.

Many thanks!

[KittenKong]

Did it work: no! The windows were cool but the room temperature didn't change, windows are only a small part of the heat problems in houses, concrete buildings are like night storage heaters, you need to take care of roof void ventilation and wall insulation first, double glazing is last on the list because reflective film works just as well.

Should be much more effective in a condo.

[chiang mai]

Did it work: no! The windows were cool but the room temperature didn't change, windows are only a small part of the heat problems in houses, concrete buildings are like night storage heaters, you need to take care of roof void ventilation and wall insulation first, double glazing is last on the list because reflective film works just as well.

Should be much more effective in a condo.

This was in a condo, 16th floor. But when the building is essentially one large block of concrete which abosrbs heat and then realeases it slowly, double, triple. quadruple glazing doesn't mean anything.

[KittenKong]

This was in a condo, 16th floor. But when the building is essentially one large block of concrete which abosrbs heat and then realeases it slowly, double, triple. quadruple glazing doesn't mean anything.

Then it depends on your neighbours and the layout. If they use aircon also there shouldn't be any heat transmission.

Certainly all the heat in my unit comes from outside via the patio doors/windows, as these cover one entire wall and are the only surface that gives onto the outside at all. Above and below are other people who also use aircon.

[chiang mai]

There is no insulation in the typical condo, it is a concrete and steel structure that is infilled with red brick, sometimes with white insulated block, there is no barrier to prevent radiated heat being absorbed into the concrete and this is stored and released later. I qualify that by saying that the problem is worse where the unit is exposed to midday and after noon sun, units that are sheltered from that do not suffer so harshly. My previous condo had great views but the heat problems simply couldn't be mitigated, now that I've moved to the protected side of the building the situation is much more manageable.

[trogers]

Small windows can be protected by reflective blackouts.

Not everyone wants to live in the dark. I removed the curtains in my condo completely because I like to see my view all the time and so never closed them. I do have slightly tinted film on the glass though.

Blackout curtains need only be used when the sun is shining into the room. They can be drawn opened at other times.

Reflective glass or films may be disallowed by the Juristic due to changing the exterior facade of the building.

[KittenKong]

Blackout curtains need only be used when the sun is shining into the room. They can be drawn opened at other times.

Yes. But I like to see my view so I would not use them.

Reflective glass or films may be disallowed by the Juristic due to changing the exterior facade of the building.

Indeed, and in some buildings a particular tint is obligatory.

[KittenKong]

There is no insulation in the typical condo, it is a concrete and steel structure that is infilled with red brick, sometimes with white insulated block, there is no barrier to prevent radiated heat being absorbed into the concrete and this is stored and released later.

This assumes that the walls are exposed to heat, even heat from the air. This is not the case in all buildings.

[chiang mai]

I do see that newer condo's are trying different techniques to try and offset radiated heat, mostly this seems to consist of putting protective non-absorbent coverings on the walls and roof. The problem however is that as the sun shines on a length of concrete it travels down that length into the heart of the building, providing sufficient heat is absorbed by the outside surface. Perimeter units therefore suffer from radiated heat absorption whilst inner units suffer from convected heat problems, caused by the radiated heat at the perimeter, the latter of course can be managed reasonably well with aircon., the former less so.

[phoenixdoglover]

There are two related aspects to the problem: 1) energy efficiency, and 2) net cost savings.

Efficiency:

In all cases, in a climate like Thailand that is dominated by warm weather and requires cooling by air conditioning, windows with 2 or 3 panes will be more energy efficient than single panes - and the efficiency gain will be greatest with glass that has both "low heat gain" and a "low U factor". A typical window of this type has a U-factor of 0.25, and a Heat Gain Factor of 0.3 or lower. Typical construction is 2 treated panes with argon gas in the separating space.

Net Cost:

Well, here's the rub. If you have a house with windows all around, and it is typically shaded and insulated, then the window type does matter, and you should recoup your extra window cost with savings in electric/air-conditioning. But if you are in a poorly insulated building, with high heat gain/loss through the walls (interior or exterior). then it's impossible to generalize; you may or may not recoup the extra cost.

My personal bias: I would go with double glazed windows, because I like energy efficiency.

[cheeryble]

Anyone got the pricing for decent quality double v. Single glazing?

Am I right in thinking it is now manufactured in CM?

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[KittenKong]

The actual difference in cost between new single-glazed windows and new double-glazed windows is quite small as the glass is done locally for both. It's the frames/profiles that bump the cost up (assuming good quality/imported).

A local aluminium shop here quoted about 20KB to put double-glazed units into my existing frames, but that's not good enough for me.

[N47HAN]

Hi Cheery,

Heres the pricing for you.

Single 6mm glass approx 400thb per sq.m

Double glass (IGU) 20mm ( 6mm glass 9mm spacer 5mm glass ) approx 1,500thb p.sqm

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cheeryble]

Hi Cheery,

Heres the pricing for you.

Single 6mm glass approx 400thb per sq.m

Double glass (IGU) 20mm ( 6mm glass 9mm spacer 5mm glass ) approx 1,500thb p.sqm

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks v much N47THAN

.....I'm presuming that's including framing, the whole gubbins.....and presumably in vinyl rather than Aluminium?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[N47HAN]

Hi Cheery,

Heres the pricing for you.

Single 6mm glass approx 400thb per sq.m

Double glass (IGU) 20mm ( 6mm glass 9mm spacer 5mm glass ) approx 1,500thb p.sqm

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks v much N47THAN

.....I'm presuming that's including framing, the whole gubbins.....and presumably in vinyl rather than Aluminium?

Nope only , glass only only costs.

Aluminium add around 1,500thb to 2,000thb per sq.m

Vinyl add aound 2,500 to 3,000thb per sqm .

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cheeryble]

Thanks N47THAN

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[pj123]

Thai-Ashai glass is one of the better double glazing glass specialists, a Japanese company with a Thai subsidiary, talk to them, they know their business. Try not to go to a Thai reseller, the mark up is horrible - they have an office in Bangkok and they sent someone up to see me when I said I was interested in buying their product, only half a dozen windows - they advised that my existing frames could be re-engineered to accept double glazed units, saved money over buying new windows. They'll tell you that blue/green is the color of glass best suited to heat penetration, go for triple glazed if you want sound proofing - low E glass is the tops but not cheap.

Did it work: no! The windows were cool but the room temperature didn't change, windows are only a small part of the heat problems in houses, concrete buildings are like night storage heaters, you need to take care of roof void ventilation and wall insulation first, double glazing is last on the list because reflective film works just as well.

Moving slightly off topic to the issue of wall insulation. if you were building a new house here would cavity walls make a difference? Perhaps also using some kind of insulating fill material?

[jacko45k]

Well of course it does insulate better, but not only heat, also sound, so if you close everything up it will be quieter inside.

Presuming you fit more modern frames, they fit more snugly too, keeping the geckos and bugs out.

They are also an improvement security wise than the older style extruded aluminium so common in Thailand.

Disadvantages, well from personal experience, the European designs are not completely suitable to the Thai climate,UVPC is soft when it is very hot.

The doors and windows can be too heavy for the hinges, the screws get pulled out of the material, they won't remain square.

Particularly you can have problems if they are in direct sunlight.

Quality of installation is suspect.

[Minnehaha]

Home Pro has at least 2 brands of UV preventive curtains - of certain length... I think 2.2 meters high and various widths and styles. The wife managed to buy enough to hang in the living room that has 14 meters of glass wall and sliding doors that are exposed from afternoon till sunset. Cant remember the actual price - think it was about 12,000. Nice looking curtains and it has transformed the room. They are 90%, not blackout. These were the Home Pro cheap brand. There is another high end brand with better styles and better quality fabric, but the cost was 150% more.

[rotary]

This was in a condo, 16th floor. But when the building is essentially one large block of concrete which abosrbs heat and then realeases it slowly, double, triple. quadruple glazing doesn't mean anything.

Then it depends on your neighbours and the layout. If they use aircon also there shouldn't be any heat transmission.

Certainly all the heat in my unit comes from outside via the patio doors/windows, as these cover one entire wall and are the only surface that gives onto the outside at all. Above and below are other people who also use aircon.

Many condos are built in sort of a clover leaf so while you share floors and ceilings my condo only has about a 10 ft wall that is shared by the condo next door. The other walls have outside exposure. Of course thats not all condos but a large percentage of the better class ones are like this. I guess its a design and or noise thing.

[Time Traveller]

I have different thinking on this issue because where I lived is much hotter than bangkok in summer, so I don't think the problem is heat, it's the humidity in Bangkok. So using a humidfier it does not matter whether windows are single or double glazed.

[PaulHamon]

we got the super shinny car tint on the inside of our widows for our condo on the side that gets the afternoon sun..

that and some floor to ceiling block out curtains on that side.

for around 5 hours in the afternoon they're drawn... open the rest of the time.

definitely made a massive difference to internal room temp in the afternoon and save us plenty on aircon.

not sure if double glazing... is any good if the brick walls around it are not insulated.

Blackout curtains need only be used when the sun is shining into the room. They can be drawn opened at other times.

Yes. But I like to see my view so I would not use them.

Reflective glass or films may be disallowed by the Juristic due to changing the exterior facade of the building.

Indeed, and in some buildings a particular tint is obligatory.

[KittenKong]

Many condos are built in sort of a clover leaf so while you share floors and ceilings my condo only has about a 10 ft wall that is shared by the condo next door. The other walls have outside exposure. Of course thats not all condos but a large percentage of the better class ones are like this. I guess its a design and or noise thing.

Design certainly varies hugely from one building to another, but where I am many condo units are built with only one surface out of six exposed to the outside air, and this surface is quite often all, or nearly all, glass. The clover-leaf design you mention is of course very different and in buildings like that a lot of heat may indeed be coming through the walls.

[sometimewoodworker]

Thai-Ashai glass is one of the better double glazing glass specialists, a Japanese company with a Thai subsidiary, talk to them, they know their business. Try not to go to a Thai reseller, the mark up is horrible - they have an office in Bangkok and they sent someone up to see me when I said I was interested in buying their product, only half a dozen windows - they advised that my existing frames could be re-engineered to accept double glazed units, saved money over buying new windows. They'll tell you that blue/green is the color of glass best suited to heat penetration, go for triple glazed if you want sound proofing - low E glass is the tops but not cheap.

.

Would that be "Thai Asahi Glass Public Co., Ltd." ??

[Nobbie49]

If you don't have double brick walls double glazing will do nothing for you.