Thai Prime Minister Says Corruption Natural......

[Martin]

"As a previous poster said, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea have made tremendous inroads in eradicating corruption, so why not Thailand?".

I think that my short answer would be: "Because it hasn't been necessary to make the big educational effort that it would entail".

The book that I mentioned in a previous posting makes it clear that Thailand has a long, long history of officials being given positions with small salaries, which it was expected they would 'top up, on the side". It worked quite well in slow-moving, agricultural times.

I don't know the history of South Korea, but Singapore and Hong Khong (like Britain, that set them up) NEED probity, and to be seen as straightforward. They only eat if they trade successfully.

And, to trade successfully, your suppliers and your customers need to feel you will be open, honest and straightforward.

When Singapore got rid of the British domination, Lee Kuan Yew spelt it out very bluntly:"We keep the good things that we got from the British, and a properly-paid Civil Service of the highest probity is the paramount one".

But LKY would, I am sure, agree that his job was made much easier by the fact that all his people were 'in the same boat' and so there was a common need.

There is not much common need between trading Thailand and agricultural Thailand and the ruling bureaucracy and the Parliament and the Government and the Bangkok middle-class (who work in different bits of them all).

This is a fascinating country.

(I recommend being fascinated by its problems; as it can keep anyone too busy to be appalled by them.)

[Kananga]

Why not Thailand? Because unlike Singapore and Hong Kong, there is a large amount of poverty and low pay amongst people who have the power to extort. There are also no deterrents against people and now the prime minister says 'you know what' its not so bad.

Singapore has its faults but corruption isnt one of them. The police receive decent pay, the politicians are grossly overpaid and there are strict laws against corruption. Thailand nees to have an honest leader who will punish everyone from policemen who demand 200 baht fines for wearing the wrong colour helmet to Army generals who bulldoze great swathes of Sukhumvit.

If there is no deterrent there will be no change.

[Pakboong]

I only know that policing corruption is incredibly expensive and this might not be such a wonderful place for us to live with our share of the bill being officially exposed. Right now, we are pretty much content to pay the ocassional 200 baht fine. Compare the cost of living in Hong Kong, Singapore and Korea. Part of Thailand's charm is in simple ways of the past.

[stumonster]

each new generation of politicians and officials seems to be taking the takings to higher levels. What will happen when the price to be paid exceeds what is available ? is it reaching a critical point now ?

[HappyDave]

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The fact is that no matter what he says or does someone will be screaming. I think it's jealousy. I can still remember when it was normal and accepted that the provincial heads took 25 percent of the federal money for their pockets. The police and other government officials still take bribes and since this is as it has always been changes are slow to come. It will be at least another generation before there are major changes. All the big shots have lots of things they can tell about the others. The practice is that you don't rat on me and I won't rat on you. When they are dead and gone there may or may not be changes. This is Asia. Show me an Asian country that is different.

SINGAPORE ! hee hee hee............no ones game enough to say anything there ?

[HappyDave]

People seem to forget that he was rich, long before politics. Really rich.

His name is on the Communications Satellites over Thailand.

The guy is a taskmaster in a corrupt system and I think the Country is better with him than without him.Ask around, most will say they are better off today than 6 years ago.

I disagree with his policy on human rights and freedom of the press but overall his performance has been a B+ I think.

Yes i guess you are right, ya just gotta be practable..thats life !

[HappyDave]

Surely, all he is doing is justifying his, and his cronies' totally corrupt acts?

Come on guys, this country is in desperate need of a 'clean' inspirational leader who can start to make some inroads into the institutionalised corruption, not someone who practises it and then tells his poor up country constituents that it's Ok, because its just human nature.

A clean inspirational leader ? come off the grass, you wont find that in Thailand. Just settle for the best you can find , and i think you have already got him, let time sort things out, at least he is taking you in the right direction, not backwards like the old ones.

[Martin]

The tax that would have to be raised, in order that salaries were brought up to level where it could be imposed that 'making a bit on the side will lose you your job', would be a big, new burden.

Thais are quite willing to carry on giving 'back handers', and seeing a bit skimmed off in various ways, rather than go down that road.

But new scams come along, and the line between 'acceptable' and 'over-greedy' has to be established, and how s/he who 'eats too much' should be punished has to be decided. And it all has to be done amicably, so don't hold your breath.

[penzman]

No need for higher taxes if CTX scanner style scams are not tolerated and government funds are properly managed.

[kayo]

I´ve been working bars,r estaurants, and hotels all over the world. I´ve organised big huge outdoor parties etc....

I always have said, and still do,

"I have no problem with corruption, but done in a dignified, discreet manner."

A cop walks into the bar, says "give me XXX$ and I won´t bother you", I WILL pick him up by his holster and carry him out.

A cop comes into the bar and sits and has a drink and a chit chat, I´ll invite him the drinks, and see where the cht chat leads too.....

[Jai Yen Yen]

....but I'm probably wrong....I guess I have an overactive imagination..

Chownah

Agreed.

[Kananga]

The tax that would have to be raised, in order that salaries were brought up to level where it could be imposed that 'making a bit on the side will lose you your job', would be a big, new burden.

Taxes in Singapore are lower than Thailand.

[Martin]

If we define 'taxes' as just those charges that have 'tax' in their title (like Income tax, Value Added tax and Corporation tax) then it may be right to say:

"Taxes in Singapore are lower than Thailand."

I have never looked at these rates, so I don't know.

However, if we define 'taxes' as the total amount extracted by a Government from its society, to be spent on its society's behalf, then I think that the Singapore Government would be way higher in the league of 'tax and spend' than the Thailand Government.

But all that is irrelevant to the point that I was making.

A lot that Westerners lump under the heading "Corruption" is not considered to be wrongful "korrapchan" by Thais.

'Penzman' points to what Thais would call "korrapchan", and he is right that it could be eliminated inexpensively, when he says:

"No need for higher taxes if CTX scanner style scams are not tolerated and government funds are properly managed."

But to to manage to change Thailand to "squeaky clean" would mean introducing big increases in an enormous number of salaries. And to spend, Governments must tax.

The Thai system is "low wage plus tips" as opposed to "good wage, but there's no tips".

(But, in either system, the waiter who picks the customers' pockets, or robs the till, should be dealt with severely, to my Western way of thinking.)

[Gary A]

I don't think it's fair to compare Singapore to any other country. It's basically a city and not a huge land area that needs a lot of infrastructure in place. If you have a four story house with 20 rooms it's VERY easy to keep your three by three meter office nice and clean.

[ilyushin]

Corruption Hub!

[penzman]

Here's another fine example

GLO faces probe into spending

State auditor to look at possible tax evasion

AMPA SANTIMETANEDOL

The state auditor has stepped in to investigate the Government Lottery Office's (GLO) spending and possible tax evasion that may have cost the state around 10 billion baht over the past three years.

A source at the Auditor-General's Office (AGO) said the GLO has not paid a single baht in tax since the launch of two- and three-digit lottery on Aug 16, 2003.

The GLO is believed to have raked in about 82 billion baht from the two- and three-digit lottery over 58 draws of the national lottery _ from the first draw to Dec 15 last year.

The source said the proceeds from the two- and three-digit lottery that the cabinet snatched from underground bookmakers are considered taxable under the Gambling Act. This is because the sale of the lottery tickets is endorsed by a cabinet resolution, not by the Lottery Act, said the source.

Article 16 of the Gambling Act states that the proceeds are subject to no more than 10% tax before expenses.

The source said that the probe into last year's lottery sales showed that from the first issuance to Dec 15 last year the GLO earned 82 billion baht.

Of the total earnings, the GLO was expected to pay a 410 million baht minimum up to an 820 million baht maximum in gambling tax and 5.74 billion baht in VAT, none of which was actually forked out.

More here on The Bangkok Post

[Martin]

'Gary A' in post #44 has an interesting analogy of Singapore as an 'office', presumably on the Ground Floor, and the rest of the ASEAN countries filling 19 more rooms in the four-storey house.

It reminds me that some highly-placed professionals in Singapore (surgeons, and so on), who hail from Malasia, refer to Singapore as "This Excellent Office".

They mean that they just go there to work, but spend their leisure time elsewhere in the 'house'. When you hear them say "When I leave this office for the last time...", they are referring to when they will retire, either back to Penang or wherever, or on to Australia.

I asked one of them about it, and he said that it was part of getting their children to think about Singapore, and whether they really want to be the Singaporeans to which their birth there entitles them, or not.

"Squeaky clean" isn't 'natural', Thaksin would say!!!