Thailand: Junta vows to clean up ivory trade

[webfact]

Junta vows to clean up ivory trade
By Coconuts Bangkok



BANGKOK: -- A serious plan to take on the ivory trade was formally requested by the military junta at a meeting yesterday with relevant agencies.

Observers remain hopeful Thailand will make a meaningful move to curtail the domestic ivory industry that remains a destination for poachers and smugglers responsible for the near-eradication of elephants in Africa and elsewhere.

Junta spokesman Yongyuth Maiyalap said the meeting was called to assess Thailand’s operations to combat the illegal trade. The Natural Resources and Environment Ministry was tasked with spearheading a development plan consistent to Thailand’s obligaions under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) in Geneva last month.

International onlookers have turned up the heat on Thailand recently after years of heavy criticism and empty promises made by former administrations. Just last year former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra vowed to ban the thriving and unregulated ivory market, only to see it triple since then. [read more...]

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2014/08/20/junta-vows-clean-ivory-trade


-- Coconuts Bangkok 2014-08-20

[EricBerg]

It's a difficult goal, but the present government cannot do worse than the previous one. When the darling of Isan was in charge it TRIPLED. How on earth can people still want to see her back in office?

[chainarong]

Unfortunately if you don't stop this hideous trade there will be no Ivory left , only because the beautiful animal that gives mongrels the right to harvest it's tusks, has now disappeared from the earth, only to be found in Zoo's, lets also remember the last report on African rangers trying to control this trade, one thousand have been shot in the last year, This gives the impression that not only Thailand but other countries and Africa need to do more to stamp out this bastardry trade.

[worgeordie]

Report just heard today, that the African elephant is on the road

to extinction,as more are been killed than are been born every

year, and for what,so the Chinese can have an ivory chop to

stamp their documents.

The Chinese have a hell of a lot to answer for in regards to all

animals,plants and reptiles they are exploiting,without a thought

that they may well not be here in the future.

regards Worgeordie

[metisdead]

Off topic and nonsense posts have been removed.

Edit: Replies to previously removed posts have been removed.

Edited August 20, 2014 by metisdead

[ChrisY1]

I guess one of the reasons that the business has trebled here in Thailand is that people are getting nervous that the trade will be completely banned here soon.....so getting in while it's still legal...and available.

I wonder how many pairs of these beautiful tusks are in the houses of the elite in Thailand.....

[Ragzilb]

I really dont understand why people would want Ivory in the first place? ivory can be replaced by any material and still the same. Why buy something most people think is disguisting to own, and why buy items with so much pain. ?

[allan michaud]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Report just heard today, that the African elephant is on the road

to extinction,as more are been killed than are been born every

year, and for what,so the Chinese can have an ivory chop to

stamp their documents.

The Chinese have a hell of a lot to answer for in regards to all

animals,plants and reptiles they are exploiting,without a thought

that they may well not be here in the future.

regards Worgeordie

35,000 killed last year. The Chinese are certainly at the head of this problem but the Thai's seem very willing to help with the supply side. I wish them luck, but seeing as how most wildlife trade busts are blown out of the water by corrupt police, who warn the offenders in advance, I can't see much improvement coming anytime soon.

There is so much wrong in Thailand the boys in green have their work cut out trying to fix things. I hope they are successful.

[wilcopops]

Tsk, tsk, tsk, - Thailand and the elephant.

Thailand is having it's bottom smacked on this issue and could face the REAL sanctions if it doesn't pul its finger out.

it has to be said that the Yingluck admin promised things but did little, but one has to surmise that this was largely due to the political turmoil created over the last 2 years. for a country to have a sound environmental record it is essential to have a stable democracy.

Trade in animal parts, government, stability and the environment are all inextricably linked........ Elephants aren't the only issue - at present the Junta is going to take the dubious credit of being the first government in the world this century to preside over the total extinction of not one or but two or its keystone species - not just the elephant but also the tiger.........

in short the LEGAL ivory trade in Thailand must be stopped...........

Thailand’s national animal is the elephant and the predominant religion is Buddhism that respects all living things.

What better place to be an elephant...you’d think?

The other side of the coin is that the national awareness of all things environmental, natural and conservational is practically NIL!

Don’t get me wrong, there are some passionate campaigners on behalf of animal welfare, conservation and the environment in Thailand but they are vastly outnumbered by the weight of widespread ignorance on these issues.

Many people’s idea of “looking after” animals is a good animal show that would make a Victorian circus owner cringe. The concept of interdependent bio systems appears to be completely recondite to most of the population whether the humblest of humble or those in high official rank.

In reality Thailand’s archaic attitudes to wildlife have lead amongst other things to Thailand becoming a hub for the ivory trade and a aiding and abetting a threat to the very existence of elephants not only in Asia but Africa as well.

What can be done to save the elephant? How can Thailand help?

Actually it ISN”T just a matter of “saving the elephant” - it is a matter of saving bio systems and keystone species.

As regards the elephant, it is a keystone in many bio systems and the benefits of stopping the wholesale slaughter are both moral and economic. The WWF has pointed out many times that the Thai ivory trade is fuelling this slaughter of African elephants. Who benefits from the ivory trade? Not the poor, or the population in general, or even the poacher....it is the entrepreneurs, those shady businessmen who make the big money. As a wildlife resource the whole population benefits from the income that is generated by healthy ecosystems.... not only tourism (the economics of which are impressive), but a cleaner environment and better resource management water, forestry etc. etc..

The view most widely held by conservationists is that the best way to stop the massive decline in elephant populations and save the bio systems is to bring a halt to the ivory trade itself.

So, the ivory in Thailand is not just domestic; Thailand is a HUB (cliché?) for the ivory trade, aided and abetted by its slack domestic laws and lukewarm enforcement. - It is questionable whether it is even legal in Thailand to seize shipments of ivory once they are past the border. It hardly ever happens - It seems once inside the country imported ivory is at present pretty much untouchable...or left untouched at any rate.

On top of this poaching is taking place on the small endangered wild elephant population in Thailand itself and is exploiting the populations of neighbouring countries; Myanmar in particular is particularly susceptible.

This is not a problem Thailand can deal with on its own; it is a worldwide problem and Thailand needs to cooperate with the unified policies adopted by the nations of the world. Thailand is a signatory to the CITES treaty which is legally binding on its 179 members and so the idea of having its own singular plan for conservation is both out of keeping with reality and the treaty they have signed.

As of July 2014 Thailand agreed to a strict timetable of measures aimed at addressing the ivory trade in the Kingdom. This was a result of an intercessional CITES meeting where serious concern was expressed over Thailand’s lack of action over the past 18 months, especially in the light of promises made by the government to close their domestic ivory market when they hosted the CITES conference in Bangkok in march 2013.

Thailand has till the 30th September 2014 to submit a revised ivory plan which must include some specified changes......

e.g.

“

1. The inclusion of the African Elephant as a “protected species” under the country’s Wildlife Act,
2. Effective control of domestic ivory trade,
3. strict penalties for illegal possession or illegal domestic trade of ivory;
4. Establishment of comprehensive registration systems for domestic ivory and for licensed ivory traders;
5. Better monitoring and control of ivory traders,
6. Law enforcement efforts against illegal trade.”

Progress made on this will be assessed by CITES on 31^st March 2015. If found lacking, the members of the CITES standing committee may take punitive action in the form of sanctions against Thailand This will take the form of suspending trade and the export of CITES registered goods. ...e.g. orchids and animal skins....this could end up costing Thailand trillions of baht.

Government instability has to be a major factor, worldwide, in illegal wildlife trade. In Africa (Where states are inherently destabilised as a legacy of colonialism and post colonialist exploitation.), and in Thailand (where the establishment of a stable democracy has not been achieved in 82 years). It remains to be seen if the current government are going to live up to their CITES commitments or whether like previous incumbents, they are just making placatory noises.

Edited August 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Report just heard today, that the African elephant is on the road

to extinction,as more are been killed than are been born every

year, and for what,so the Chinese can have an ivory chop to

stamp their documents.

The Chinese have a hell of a lot to answer for in regards to all

animals,plants and reptiles they are exploiting,without a thought

that they may well not be here in the future.

regards Worgeordie

35,000 killed last year. The Chinese are certainly at the head of this problem but the Thai's seem very willing to help with the supply side. I wish them luck, but seeing as how most wildlife trade busts are blown out of the water by corrupt police, who warn the offenders in advance, I can't see much improvement coming anytime soon.

There is so much wrong in Thailand the boys in green have their work cut out trying to fix things. I hope they are successful.

people don't seem to realise that once the ivory is in the country, it is dry difficult under the law to do anything about it....even if you find a huge haul. Most of the "busts" that take place are actually on the border, where a law IS being broken that of try to bring the stuff into there country...once in it's anybody's guess.

[jpeg]

It's a difficult goal, but the present government cannot do worse than the previous one. When the darling of Isan was in charge it TRIPLED. How on earth can people still want to see her back in office?

I really, really don't believe the two issues are concommitant and you've successfully introduced a side issue.

I'll believe all this daily PR when and if I see actual evidence as to the daily junta-spiel's efficacy. So far, all I've seen are small restaurants and sun loungers being removed from the beaches and precious little else.

[Stradavarius37]

It's a difficult goal, but the present government cannot do worse than the previous one. When the darling of Isan was in charge it TRIPLED. How on earth can people still want to see her back in office?

Because they are stupid.

[Stradavarius37]

It's a difficult goal, but the present government cannot do worse than the previous one. When the darling of Isan was in charge it TRIPLED. How on earth can people still want to see her back in office?

I really, really don't believe the two issues are concommitant and you've successfully introduced a side issue.

I'll believe all this daily PR when and if I see actual evidence as to the daily junta-spiel's efficacy. So far, all I've seen are small restaurants and sun loungers being removed from the beaches and precious little else.

Get off your barstool and open your eyes...

[jpeg]

It's a difficult goal, but the present government cannot do worse than the previous one. When the darling of Isan was in charge it TRIPLED. How on earth can people still want to see her back in office?

I really, really don't believe the two issues are concommitant and you've successfully introduced a side issue.

I'll believe all this daily PR when and if I see actual evidence as to the daily junta-spiel's efficacy. So far, all I've seen are small restaurants and sun loungers being removed from the beaches and precious little else.

Get off your barstool and open your eyes...

Teetotal

[ginjag]

It's a difficult goal, but the present government cannot do worse than the previous one. When the darling of Isan was in charge it TRIPLED. How on earth can people still want to see her back in office?

I really, really don't believe the two issues are concommitant and you've successfully introduced a side issue.

I'll believe all this daily PR when and if I see actual evidence as to the daily junta-spiel's efficacy. So far, all I've seen are small restaurants and sun loungers being removed from the beaches and precious little else.

Maybe that's all you want to see, you get my other point about being positive. Your attitude being---Dismiss the PTP failures and do not give any acclaim to the army.

[hughben]

Regarding the Junta doing things, I think some actions have been positive, but when you read about the closed down Phuket Jet ski owners being allowed to operate again because they told the Junta they would have to turn to crime (a paradox?), one has to wonder what the hell is going on?

Which is why I don't hold much hope for change regarding the ivory trade.

[Thai at Heart]

Jesus, they cannot even fix the lottery pricing, how the hell do they think they can clean up the ivory trade which i expect is far more sophisticated and has many international players involved!

They should fix one problem before moving to the next. Not announce a crack down, release a few PR bulletins, and then move on as if its done and dusted. Quite clearly they have failed to fix the lottery issue, so have they given up on it? or simply brushing over it and hope people forget about it.

its not as though the shops aren't hiding in plain sight. That would be a start. In the press over here there was a report yesterday that for the first time in Africa, the population of elephants isn't being replaced. If it continues like this, elephants will be extinct in 100 years, all so people can have some bangles and chess pieces.

[wilcopops]

Jesus, they cannot even fix the lottery pricing, how the hell do they think they can clean up the ivory trade which i expect is far more sophisticated and has many international players involved!

They should fix one problem before moving to the next. Not announce a crack down, release a few PR bulletins, and then move on as if its done and dusted. Quite clearly they have failed to fix the lottery issue, so have they given up on it? or simply brushing over it and hope people forget about it.

its not as though the shops aren't hiding in plain sight. That would be a start. In the press over here there was a report yesterday that for the first time in Africa, the population of elephants isn't being replaced. If it continues like this, elephants will be extinct in 100 years, all so people can have some bangles and chess pieces.

100 years? you think they have that much time??? Check your figures! one estimate gives the Africa elephant 6 years!!!!

The Elephant is a keystone species in many ecosystems and local extinctions of these elephants and their immediate bio-systems is imminent in many cases, it's not just the animals we lose but the whole ecosystem collapses.

Edited August 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

as far as the current government - it seems to me that so far they haven't really done anything substantial. A lot of what they've done seems to be populist measures - the sort of thing you'd say "If I were president, I'd........"

i reminds me of someone moving in to a new house....they get "all those jobs done" - fixing lightbulbs, cleaning the carpets, fix the locks on the doors, sorting out the leaky taps, but it remains to be seen if they fix the foundations of the building or do any substantial longterm repairs.

Sorting out Thailand's conservation issues takes money and time....a long term plan is required that will survive Thailand's penchant for coups etc......

In particular closing down the ivory trade will require putting a lot of wealthy Thai business people out of business..........given the power and influence such people have it is hardly going to be a straightforward dictum that will solve this problem.

Edited August 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[hughben]

Jesus, they cannot even fix the lottery pricing, how the hell do they think they can clean up the ivory trade which i expect is far more sophisticated and has many international players involved!

They should fix one problem before moving to the next. Not announce a crack down, release a few PR bulletins, and then move on as if its done and dusted. Quite clearly they have failed to fix the lottery issue, so have they given up on it? or simply brushing over it and hope people forget about it.

its not as though the shops aren't hiding in plain sight. That would be a start. In the press over here there was a report yesterday that for the first time in Africa, the population of elephants isn't being replaced. If it continues like this, elephants will be extinct in 100 years, all so people can have some bangles and chess pieces.

100 years? you think they have that much time??? Check your figures! one estimate gives the Africa elephant 6 years!!!!

The Elephant is a keystone species in many ecosystems and local extinctions of these elephants and their immediate bio-systems is imminent in many cases, it's not just the animals we lose but the whole ecosystem collapses.

+1

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140114-elephants-the-forest-gardeners

he Nature Conservancy’s lead scientist Dr M Sanjayan, Dr Valerie Kapos of the UN Environment Programme, and tropical field biologist and conservationist Dr Ian Redmond reveal the crucial role that elephants play in keeping these forests strong and resilient, and how elephants are the most important player when it comes to the diversity of tree species in the rainforest.

[wilcopops]

Jesus, they cannot even fix the lottery pricing, how the hell do they think they can clean up the ivory trade which i expect is far more sophisticated and has many international players involved!

They should fix one problem before moving to the next. Not announce a crack down, release a few PR bulletins, and then move on as if its done and dusted. Quite clearly they have failed to fix the lottery issue, so have they given up on it? or simply brushing over it and hope people forget about it.

its not as though the shops aren't hiding in plain sight. That would be a start. In the press over here there was a report yesterday that for the first time in Africa, the population of elephants isn't being replaced. If it continues like this, elephants will be extinct in 100 years, all so people can have some bangles and chess pieces.

100 years? you think they have that much time??? Check your figures! one estimate gives the Africa elephant 6 years!!!!

The Elephant is a keystone species in many ecosystems and local extinctions of these elephants and their immediate bio-systems is imminent in many cases, it's not just the animals we lose but the whole ecosystem collapses.

+1

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140114-elephants-the-forest-gardeners

he Nature Conservancy’s lead scientist Dr M Sanjayan, Dr Valerie Kapos of the UN Environment Programme, and tropical field biologist and conservationist Dr Ian Redmond reveal the crucial role that elephants play in keeping these forests strong and resilient, and how elephants are the most important player when it comes to the diversity of tree species in the rainforest.

As I said they are a keystone species.

It is a common mistake to see these animals as an isolated problem. so they can argue, if all the elephants in the wild die out, we still have them in zoos so that's OK just the jungles won't have elephants. Of course it's not as they aren't an isolated item, they are part of a greater whole and if the elephants go them all that they do and all that depends on them goes too....a domino effect.

PS - did you know that they now think there are 2 species of elephant in Africa?

Edited August 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[Thai at Heart]

Jesus, they cannot even fix the lottery pricing, how the hell do they think they can clean up the ivory trade which i expect is far more sophisticated and has many international players involved!

They should fix one problem before moving to the next. Not announce a crack down, release a few PR bulletins, and then move on as if its done and dusted. Quite clearly they have failed to fix the lottery issue, so have they given up on it? or simply brushing over it and hope people forget about it.

its not as though the shops aren't hiding in plain sight. That would be a start. In the press over here there was a report yesterday that for the first time in Africa, the population of elephants isn't being replaced. If it continues like this, elephants will be extinct in 100 years, all so people can have some bangles and chess pieces.

100 years? you think they have that much time??? Check your figures! one estimate gives the Africa elephant 6 years!!!!

The Elephant is a keystone species in many ecosystems and local extinctions of these elephants and their immediate bio-systems is imminent in many cases, it's not just the animals we lose but the whole ecosystem collapses.

It was on Radio 4 this morning. I even commented out loud that saying 100 years would encourage people not to care.

If its less I stand corrected but that was the figure they had.

[hughben]

As I said they are a keystone species.

It is a common mistake to see these animals as an isolated problem. so they can argue, if all the elephants in the wild die out, we still have them in zoos so that's OK just the jungles won't have elephants. Of course it's not as they aren't an isolated item, they are part of a greater whole and if the elephants go them all that they do and all that depends on them goes too....a domino effect.

PS - did you know that they now think there are 2 species of elephant in Africa?

Yeah, I read that report on the 2 species.

Regarding the 100 year thing mentioned. I saw that report and it differs from an earlier report which estimates 10-20 years before extinction in the wild.

And, elephants generally do not breed well in captivity. For every two elephants in zoos, only one calf is born. So, their numbers will slowly decrease unless that can be addressed.

By that time, the Chinese will probably be cloning them so they won't care anyway. A lot like now.

If only they cared about other animals apart from Pandas.

[lifeincnx]

Follow the money.

[Alwyn]

It's a difficult goal, but the present government cannot do worse than the previous one. When the darling of Isan was in charge it TRIPLED. How on earth can people still want to see her back in office?

You obviously didn't see the post last week then? The one that showed how much the ivory trade grew from November til now? That would be from when to protests started and continuing through the coup and martial law. It's all nonsense, because the Thais just don't give a poo about it no matter who's at the helm of the country

[wilcopops]

Yingluck made a "declaration" during the world CITES conference in BKK (March 2013) about "ending" there ivory trade in Thaiuland. It would be difficult to see how this could have been implemented in the subsequent months give the political unrest.

It would also be fair to assume that those making their fortune out of ivory would/will not just sit back and let it happen. I would also suggest that it is fair to assume that many of these people are not without influence or political clout.

it would seem it is up to the military now to turn on them.

Edited August 21, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

I think to regard this issue as a party-political one is just too facile for words.......the problem of the ivory trade in Thailand goes back before ay of the present governments - it's roots in Thailand are centuries old.

Are you aware that Nakhon Sawan is the ivory carving centre of Thailand?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TOsy7pZUJck

[listen to a shop keeper trying to say her products are "bone"!!]

There is a report on the ivory trade that has just been released - "Polishing off the Ivory" by Naomi Doak. This is a detailed survey of the Ivory Trade in Thailand and it's expansion over the last few years.

This is the main illustration of Thailand's lack of action against the Trade and will result in Thailand being the subject of sanctions if they don't comply with the CITES program.

These sanctions WILL bite as it will prevent hail and from exporting animal and plant products worth billions of baht.

quick overview....

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/content/slaughterhouse-thailands-ivory-trade-triples-elephants-slide-extinction

Edited August 21, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Follow the money.

John Cleese had something to say about this kind of comment - with a reference to a specialist subject on "Mastermind"

perhaps you'd like to say a bit more on this...or is it just an attempt to look like you know more than you really do on the subject?

Edited August 21, 2014 by wilcopops

[debrakfurlow]

I went to the gem factory and the lady proudly showed me the Ivory items for sale. I pretty sure she picked up on my disgust when I turned and walked away.

[rubl]

I guess one of the reasons that the business has trebled here in Thailand is that people are getting nervous that the trade will be completely banned here soon.....so getting in while it's still legal...and available.

I wonder how many pairs of these beautiful tusks are in the houses of the elite in Thailand.....

If you hadn't inserted the 'elite' but simply said 'politicians and other influencial / powerful figures' I would have liked your post.